The NRA and outdoor brands like Camelbak & Camp Chef

[some seeing eye]

Vista Brands is a conglomerate. They reportedly sell 40% of US ammunition and sell assault weapons. Their weapon division is estimated 75% of revenues. They own CamelBak and Camp Chef. As a weapon and ammunition supplier, they contribute to the NRA, and benefit from the NRA weapon industrial complex.

Vista also owns bicycle equipment brands Bell, Giro and Blackburn. A boycott of the Vista bike and outdoor brands is underway.

There are alternative bladder pack canteens.

[ygmir]

Vista Brands is a conglomerate. They reportedly sell 40% of US ammunition and sell assault weapons. Their weapon division is estimated 75% of revenues. They own CamelBak and Camp Chef. As a weapon and ammunition supplier, they contribute to the NRA, and benefit from the NRA weapon industrial complex.

Vista also owns bicycle equipment brands Bell, Giro and Blackburn. A boycott of the Vista bike and outdoor brands is underway.

There are alternative bladder pack canteens.

how do you think, that will change anything? will it help the people with problems that commit crimes? will it alter the attitudes of the majority of crimes committed with guns, which are drug and gang related? Will it enhance security at schools and crowded public envents and venues?
Or, will it just put hard working people out of work, who make and sell legitimate products?

[Captain Goddammit]

Ygmir stop thinking rationally. You’ve got to become more liberal if you’re ginna be a Burner, right?

[lucky420]

Vista Brands is a conglomerate. They reportedly sell 40% of US ammunition and sell assault weapons. Their weapon division is estimated 75% of revenues. They own CamelBak and Camp Chef. As a weapon and ammunition supplier, they contribute to the NRA, and benefit from the NRA weapon industrial complex.

Vista also owns bicycle equipment brands Bell, Giro and Blackburn. A boycott of the Vista bike and outdoor brands is underway.

There are alternative bladder pack canteens.

how do you think, that will change anything? will it help the people with problems that commit crimes? will it alter the attitudes of the majority of crimes committed with guns, which are drug and gang related? Will it enhance security at schools and crowded public envents and venues?
Or, will it just put hard working people out of work, who make and sell legitimate products?

Oh hey, those workers who could potentially be out of jobs? Haven’t you heard, coal jobs are coming back, they’ll be fine

[Captain Goddammit]

See??

[lucky420]

Yep I’m a cold bitch, you’d think I was a conservative

[Token]

Folks, the writing is on the wall.

The 223 Is out.

Re-chamber to 7.62 x 51 stat!

[cryoguy]

Or 308

[Simon of the Playa]

Vista Brands is a conglomerate. They reportedly sell 40% of US ammunition and sell assault weapons. Their weapon division is estimated 75% of revenues. They own CamelBak and Camp Chef. As a weapon and ammunition supplier, they contribute to the NRA, and benefit from the NRA weapon industrial complex.

Vista also owns bicycle equipment brands Bell, Giro and Blackburn. A boycott of the Vista bike and outdoor brands is underway.

There are alternative bladder pack canteens.

how do you think, that will change anything? will it help the people with problems that commit crimes? will it alter the attitudes of the majority of crimes committed with guns, which are drug and gang related? Will it enhance security at schools and crowded public envents and venues?
Or, will it just put hard working people out of work, who make and sell legitimate products?

gee, i sure hope you’re getting paid to sell yer soul...

[Elderberry]

Vista Brands is a conglomerate. They reportedly sell 40% of US ammunition and sell assault weapons. Their weapon division is estimated 75% of revenues. They own CamelBak and Camp Chef. As a weapon and ammunition supplier, they contribute to the NRA, and benefit from the NRA weapon industrial complex.

Vista also owns bicycle equipment brands Bell, Giro and Blackburn. A boycott of the Vista bike and outdoor brands is underway.

There are alternative bladder pack canteens.

how do you think, that will change anything? will it help the people with problems that commit crimes? will it alter the attitudes of the majority of crimes committed with guns, which are drug and gang related? Will it enhance security at schools and crowded public envents and venues?
Or, will it just put hard working people out of work, who make and sell legitimate products?

Nope. Only banning ALL Military Grade Guns will help to do that.

[cryoguy]

Removing assault rifles from the equation may help, who’s to say? It might even make it worse, replace the guns with a fertilizer bomb or a truck as examples.

Sad as it is Crazy always finds a way

A few facts
1927 – Bath, Michigan school – weapon/bomb – 43 students and teachers died
1958 – Chicago school fire – weapon/arson – 93 students , 3 nuns died, 10 yo boy set fire
1995 – Oklahoma city – weapon/bomb – 168 died
2001 – 911 – weapons/ box cutters, airplanes > 3000 died
2016 – Japan – weapon /knife - 19 died , 25 injured
2014-2017 – Various locations – weapon/truck – 142 died

[Traveller in Time]

Why not a graded licence/permit system

If no criminal or violent record & legit citizen, only light hand guns

After showing being responsible at gun range one might get permit for rifle

After enough exams and feedback from local law perhaps allowed to purchase an anti rocket installation (or whatever)

On a regular (years?) base checked and showing off with local law officer. Registration gives them a list of weapon owners.

(Actually I presumed such system was/is already in place)

[XPTom]

..........If no criminal or violent record & legit citizen, only light hand guns......After showing being responsible at gun range one might get permit for rifle.....

Sounds reasonable, but illustrates the problem with this debate. Handguns kill 20 times more than rifles (5500 vs 250) .... but that isn't how we percieve the problem.

[Popeye]

Why not a graded licence/permit system

If no criminal or violent record & legit citizen, only light hand guns

After showing being responsible at gun range one might get permit for rifle

After enough exams and feedback from local law perhaps allowed to purchase an anti rocket installation (or whatever)

On a regular (years?) base checked and showing off with local law officer. Registration gives them a list of weapon owners.

(Actually I presumed such system was/is already in place)

And who decides what the "correct" grading system is? Police and security people? You end up with ex cops and like minded people with guns and those who don't think as they do without weapons. The police state is already disporportionately armed.
Arm The Left!!

[Traveller in Time]

Better police then companies making the decision.

[ygmir]

Vista Brands is a conglomerate. They reportedly sell 40% of US ammunition and sell assault weapons. Their weapon division is estimated 75% of revenues. They own CamelBak and Camp Chef. As a weapon and ammunition supplier, they contribute to the NRA, and benefit from the NRA weapon industrial complex.

Vista also owns bicycle equipment brands Bell, Giro and Blackburn. A boycott of the Vista bike and outdoor brands is underway.

There are alternative bladder pack canteens.

how do you think, that will change anything? will it help the people with problems that commit crimes? will it alter the attitudes of the majority of crimes committed with guns, which are drug and gang related? Will it enhance security at schools and crowded public envents and venues?
Or, will it just put hard working people out of work, who make and sell legitimate products?

gee, i sure hope you’re getting paid to sell yer soul...

I'd sort of expect (though hoped against it) , you to relate an attempt at rational discussion with selling one's soul.
suggesting things that have no hope of majority compliance, let alone success, but sound really good and make people feel like it looks like they care, though fun, helps what?

[lucky420]

I don’t know. I think protests & boycotts can work. And if it’s something you believe in and want to stand up for, why not?

Boycotts/protests can be very powerful.

[ygmir]

I don’t know. I think protests & boycotts can work. And if it’s something you believe in and want to stand up for, why not?

Boycotts/protests can be very powerful.

indeed they can.
What I'm saying, though, is boycotting those particular brands, will have no effect on this issue. none. It will only harm that particular company, and all that does is create a vacuum, that plenty of other companies will step in to fill.
And, the collateral damage to workers and stock holders, down the line, seems a bad thing... YMMV

[Simon of the Playa]

A2DE22A1-D86A-4BBB-BBA3-8835C35953D4.jpeg

[FlyingMonkey]

Think deeper. No one died from a camelbak. No one will be saved by not buying one.

[FlyingMonkey]

A2DE22A1-D86A-4BBB-BBA3-8835C35953D4.jpeg

That's an easy one if true. Short of using a burner phone you can't communicate these days without someone knowing. Local cops are using NSA tech these days to trace calls. Find & prosecute them. Done.

[some seeing eye]

Personal opinion -

My position is single action long guns only, microtagants with tracing at the ammunition box level, phasing out lead ammunition for environmental reasons and mandatory liability insurance for all gun owners.

Several friends survived a mass shooting, one survived two. I’ve faced child soldiers with automatic weapons. I dated a woman who had to leave her husband because he was getting a little crazy collecting guns. I've successfully discouraged two close friends who should not have guns from obtaining them. That's my experience not even being in or near the gun culture.

The NRA is carrying the industry and media water in preventing a rational discussion of US gun policy.

My opinion is moderate. Almost every Western country has stricter gun law than the US and the US has the largest per capita gun ownership rate in the world. Switzerland and Israel have rational gun laws which provide a civilian militia and as much protection in public places as anyone would want. Fourth of Juplaya shooting range is fine by me. Hunting without hunting accidents, sure!

Our and the world’s arms industry is also flooding the globe with small arms diverting us as a species from the great problems we need to solve.

[Simon of the Playa]

http://www.theshovel.com.au/2018/02/25/ ... ry-sharks/

[Token]

Switzerland and Israel have rational gun laws which provide a civilian militia and as much protection in public places as anyone would want.

Switzerland and Israel have military conscription for every citizen and after their years of active service are concluded, they are a decentralized reserve army that takes home all their gear, including the guns.

Having each of their 18 year old citizens in the military for a year or few let’s them weed out the crazy. Helps when you have universal medical system.

[AntiM]

I don't think one can compare bombings to shootins, especially any before the 1970s, which was when you pretty much could buy dynamite in any hardware store. Even ammonium nitrate has restrictions these days. Anyone wanting to make bombs can't just stroll in and buy the raw materials now, it takes a little more skill and practice than killing with a gun which can be purchased nearly immediately.

Just because people circumvent laws, or find other means, does not mean we shouldn't have laws, shouldn't attempt to make the best laws possible.

I'm still formulating my opinions on what is workable, what might make a difference, and what is hysteria. So far: I'm all for banning things such as bump stocks, banning high capacity magazines, perhaps limiting ammunition sales. Register and require insurance for certain weapons which can use high capacity magazines. Increase waiting periods, be sure background checks are thorough, increase the age of purchase for semi-automatic weapons to 21. Eliminate the ban on gun related death and violence studies from the CDC. Implement meaningful and widespread buy-back and surrender programs. Make mental healthcare available and accessible. Still waffling on an outright ban of semi-automatic weapons, but I am beginning to think this is not a bad idea for some models.

When we were stationed overseas in Japan, you could only have a private gun if you kept it in the armory on base, and had to check it out for specific purposes. While I wouldn't propose this precisely, I could see it for those people who only want to shoot at ranges. Store it at the range. This is still a nebulous idea.

Boycotts do work, and I don't think we are going to hurt many Chinese workers. Camp Chef touts themselves as a local Utah company, but their products are manufactured overseas.

The NRA is a tiny minority, far too powerful for their numbers, and outdated in their views. The gun industry will be just fine without them. If they are not, that's fine too.

[lucky420]

I don't think one can compare bombings to shootins, especially any before the 1970s, which was when you pretty much could buy dynamite in any hardware store. Even ammonium nitrate has restrictions these days. Anyone wanting to make bombs can't just stroll in and buy the raw materials now, it takes a little more skill and practice than killing with a gun which can be purchased nearly immediately.

Just because people circumvent laws, or find other means, does not mean we shouldn't have laws, shouldn't attempt to make the best laws possible.

I'm still formulating my opinions on what is workable, what might make a difference, and what is hysteria. So far: I'm all for banning things such as bump stocks, banning high capacity magazines, perhaps limiting ammunition sales. Register and require insurance for certain weapons which can use high capacity magazines. Increase waiting periods, be sure background checks are thorough, increase the age of purchase for semi-automatic weapons to 21. Eliminate the ban on gun related death and violence studies from the CDC. Implement meaningful and widespread buy-back and surrender programs. Make mental healthcare available and accessible. Still waffling on an outright ban of semi-automatic weapons, but I am beginning to think this is not a bad idea for some models.

When we were stationed overseas in Japan, you could only have a private gun if you kept it in the armory on base, and had to check it out for specific purposes. While I wouldn't propose this precisely, I could see it for those people who only want to shoot at ranges. Store it at the range. This is still a nebulous idea.

Boycotts do work, and I don't think we are going to hurt many Chinese workers. Camp Chef touts themselves as a local Utah company, but their products are manufactured overseas.

The NRA is a tiny minority, far too powerful for their numbers, and outdated in their views. The gun industry will be just fine without them. If they are not, that's fine too.

+1000

[ygmir]

an interesting though another eplayan brought up the other day about requiring insurance:
Insurance, does not cover illegal acts. IE: requiring gun owners to insure their firearms does not help any "victim" of said firearm if used in an illegal fashion...
And again, it'd only effect law abiding citizens, anyway, with a cost for no good reason.
Maybe someone here more versed in law can correct me if I'm wrong?

[some seeing eye]

Actually insurance is a contract so it can include or exclude anything.

If the requirement by law for possessing a gun is a policy for X million liability coverage covering any acts, including illegal acts, the insurance companies would be motivated to find the mentally unstable gun owners and revoke their ownership. Car insurance covers illegal acts and insurers prune out high risk drivers. There are about 108 million gun owners in the US. You could collect a lot of premiums to settle liability. The number of mentally ill gun owners is small. A mandatory liability insurance system would also simplify the police removing guns from criminals too.

Here is some good data: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/ ... ownership/

[ygmir]

Actually insurance is a contract so it can include or exclude anything.

If the requirement by law for possessing a gun is a policy for X million liability coverage covering any acts, including illegal acts, the insurance companies would be motivated to find the mentally unstable gun owners and revoke their ownership. Car insurance covers illegal acts and insurers prune out high risk drivers. There are about 108 million gun owners in the US. You could collect a lot of premiums to settle liability. The number of mentally ill gun owners is small. A mandatory liability insurance system would also simplify the police removing guns from criminals too.

Here is some good data: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/ ... ownership/

the insurance companies could not "revoke ownership" , they could only refuse to insure. And, if compelled to insure for illegal activities, I'd imagine the premiums would be astronomical.
nope, don't see it working.

[AntiM]

In Japan, car insurance is tied to the vehicle, not to the individual drivers. When you sell your car, the remaining liability insurance is sold with it. I imagine gun insurance would have something similar. As our system stands, no, it wouldn't work, but that doesn't mean such a thing cannot be discussed and options explored.