Why War?

All things outside of Burning Man.
Rian Jackson
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Post by Rian Jackson » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:58 am

calicowboy925 wrote:Fellows...The Isreal comment was the result of hearing yet another 2nd rate journalist on the radio this morn say "The road to peace in Isreal runs through Bagdad"(or something to that effect)...and i myself was trying to understand it....
gotta run, but let me mull that over lunch?
they could have meant a lot of things.. i would have liked to have heard the context...

regardless, i'm pretty sure that we can call BULLSHIT on the comment...

unless the little green martians land in baghdad and run up to Palestine and take away the M16s and heckle the settlers til they go home and...

ok, gotta go eat. maybe it's low blood sugar.
surlier than thou

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:59 am

Rian Jackson wrote:
samtzu wrote:

As a hint: avoid the topic of Israel unless you want to see your intestines spilled across Tisha's bar room floor. I'm not concerned about it, but there is one vicious little green giant that has experienced it first hand and doesn't suffer fools or take prisoners...
i think i'll take that as a compliment... thanks Sam... i miss you!
I miss you too, Sweetie.... er.... uhhh... Rocko! Keep the claws sharp, Babe!
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by calicowboy925 » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:07 pm

Just a bit of insight for you who care...I was/am a real cowboy, educated in math and science (obvie NOT political science!!!) I am lucky to have nice things in my life, but humbled in many ways including living with a life threatening disease. To know me you would see a loving, caring most generous person who would get up at 4am to go pick up a friend of a friend of a friend who's car broke down. I have a large group of friends i have been close to since kindergarten. I've made even more along the way. Yes, my political views lean to the conservative, mostly because of tax liabilities, but I am quick to find fault with the rights stance on many issues too. I really like many of Ralph Nader's ideas, too bad the 2 party BS keeps real candidates like him out of it. The Reps and Dems are all in the same country club, they may disagree at election time, but they are watchin each others ass! It amazes me how close I think GW and JFK really are. I like neither. Sorry to have offended people on here, I am not very savvy in this environment. Again..i'm sorry.
Love and Laugh With Me!!!

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:53 pm

I, for one, accept your appology... no harm, no foul (except for my language)

Next?
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

Simply Joel
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Post by Simply Joel » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:04 am

Why? Women's rights is why.

October 7, 2004
When Love Is a Crime
By HADIL JAWAD and LAUREN SANDLER

Last year, reporting in Baghdad about issues facing Iraqi women since the occupation, I spent some time with the Organization of Women's Freedom in Iraq, a secular activist group housed within the Communist Party. Working with the group was a quiet auburn-haired woman in her mid-30's named Hadil Jawad. I learned from the head of the organization that Ms. Jawad, who was from Baquba, in what is now called the Sunni Triangle, was on the run from a tribal tradition known as honor killing, which gives family members the right to kill a woman who has sexual intercourse (even if it's a case of rape) without her family's permission.

According to Iraqi police officers that I spoke to, they would never investigate an honor killing unless a murderer came to the precinct of his own will to make a confession. And even in that case, Saddam Hussein's laws, still enforced today, require leniency - a maximum three-year sentence, though more often just a slap on the hand - for any man who kills a female relative to "cleanse the shame" of the family. (Honor killings have continued at an alarming rate since the occupation began, according to the forensics unit at Baghdad's morgue that classifies murders.)

Not surprisingly, these interviews never captured the passion, heartbreak, fear and a love that endures for a family that would kill a daughter, sister and niece for the crime of falling in love - for that I had to go to Ms. Jawad. For hours over two days, my interpreter and I listened to her tale, first at the office, then in a quieter, safer place. Hadil Jawad's story, in her words, is recounted below from an English transcription of our conversations.

-- LAUREN SANDLER, a writer, teaches at New York University.

When I was a young woman and still living with my family, I once went out to the market and let my hair down my back without tying it up. My brother saw me, and when I came back home, he hit me repeatedly with a hard plastic hose. I nearly died.

My brother was very difficult to live with and would not allow my five sisters or me go out of the house or wear trousers. My father was also strict. My mother was helpless; she could not open her mouth.

My family is originally from Baghdad, but when I was about 27 years old, my father's work took us to a village near Baquba. I was not married, and my life was filled with restrictions placed upon me by my family's adherence to tribal customs.

The moment I first saw Ali, I thought, "He is the one who will change my life.'' When we moved in next door to his house, he came to welcome us with his wife and five children. He gave me a special look, and I returned it with a sidelong glance. He was handsome and he seemed so open-minded.

Because my sisters and I were not allowed to leave the house, I often went to the roof to get some fresh air. One evening when I was up there, Ali climbed onto his roof next door. He gestured that he wanted to talk. But I was afraid to speak to him. Afterward, he sent his 6-year-old daughter to our house with notes that said: "I love you. I want to see you." Sometimes he would ball up the paper and throw it at our roof, and I would take it and read it.

After two or three months, our relationship became intimate. The first time we slept together, I was so happy. But the next day, I regretted it. My father came to the roof and saw me with Ali. He hit me and told Ali that he would never let me marry him because he was married and poor.

One day Ali spoke to me across the fence that separated our houses. He said he was being watched by Saddam Hussein's secret police because he was a member of the Communist Party. In those days, when someone was picked up by the secret police, he never returned. He asked me what he should do. I loved Ali. I knew that if I married someone else, my husband would find out I was not a virgin, and my family would kill me. They would slit my throat. So, I said we should flee together to the north, to Kirkuk and then to Sulaimaniya in the Kurdish region.

When I eloped with Ali, I took only my clothes. He was waiting for me in a taxi on the corner. It was the early afternoon, my parents were napping, and my brother was not at home. I was terrified that I would be seen as I left the house. Once I was in the taxi, I felt free.

We stayed in Sulaimaniya for two years and a half years. The Communist Party had formed a group to help those who came to Sulaimaniya, but the Kurds eventually asked the party to disband. When the Communists refused, there was a confrontation in which six party members were killed. The United Nations intervened and suggested the party leave Sulaimaniya, so we went to Qom, in Iran. Within a few months, though, the secret police there learned that we had entered Iran illegally, so we fled to the northeast where Ali picked pomegranates and I worked on a saffron farm. But we had no green card for Iran, so we eventually went to Pakistan as refugees.

During all those years, we later learned from Ali's family, my father visited Ali's first wife every day so that if Ali came back to see his children, he could kill us or one of Ali's brothers or force one of Ali's sisters to marry my brother or my cousin.

This may sound strange because of how I was treated, but I still love my family. I miss them. I want to know how my sisters are doing.

After the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, Ali and I came back to Iraq, to Baghdad, where I have heard my family now lives. I felt I was risking my life to return, but Ali insisted. He wanted to see his five children, since he had not seen them for seven years. I was terrified that someone from my family might see me. Yet at the same time, I was eager to see them. I heard that my sisters are married now, and that my youngest sister married an old man who was married and had a big family.

When I walk down the street, I worry that someone from my family will recognize me and kill me. I try not to show it but I am terrified. I have no objection to death, but it seems unfair: my only crime is that I fell in love with someone and wanted to marry him.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:17 am

thanks Joel......
surlier than thou

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Post by Woodrow » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:53 am

Humans... it makes you wonder. Sigh...

Thanks, Joel. It makes me look inside myself to see if there are any fucked up antiquated notions that I have buried deep inside there. Maybe they're not as oppressive (or violent) as those of this article, but a lessening of degree does not make one innocent.

Sorry, my brain is a little unfocused on this... I hate bullies, and I hate injustice... and that befuddles my thinking.
Hey! It's me!!!

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Post by Simply Joel » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:12 pm

i operate on the notion that there is very little difference between fundamentalist christians and islamic fundamentalist... because both are opposed to secular living for the rest of us.

i also find it hard to believe, yet i know it exists... that our way of viewing women in the west is so liberal in thought, it makes our enemies' (islamic terrorist) heads spin like a top... hence clouding their world perspective.

just my opinions, nothing more.

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Post by tisha2 » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:38 pm

Woodrow wrote:Humans... it makes you wonder. Sigh...

Thanks, Joel. It makes me look inside myself to see if there are any fucked up antiquated notions that I have buried deep inside there. Maybe they're not as oppressive (or violent) as those of this article, but a lessening of degree does not make one innocent.

Sorry, my brain is a little unfocused on this... I hate bullies, and I hate injustice... and that befuddles my thinking.
apparantly....Samtzu is speaking through Woodrow!!! *shiver*

yer posts, Joel, makes me feel very very blessed...

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Post by samtzu » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:05 pm

Tisha wrote:
apparantly....Samtzu is speaking through Woodrow!!! *shiver*
While he often does my thinking for me, it is rare that I speak through him, but this time it is true...

However, I have hummed the overture to "The Thieving Magpie" through him just to make the experience more interesting...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Simply Joel » Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:13 am

October 8, 2004
What I Really Said About Iraq
By L. PAUL BREMER III

n recent days, attention has been focused on some remarks I've made about Iraq. The coverage of these remarks has elicited far more heat than light, so I believe it's important to put my remarks in the correct context.

In my speeches, I have said that the United States paid a price for not stopping the looting in Iraq in the immediate aftermath of major combat operations and that we did not have enough troops on the ground to accomplish that task. The press and critics of the war have seized on these remarks in an effort to undermine President Bush's Iraq policy.

This effort won't succeed. Let me explain why.

It's no secret that during my time in Iraq I had tactical disagreements with others, including military commanders on the ground. Such disagreements among individuals of good will happen all the time, particularly in war and postwar situations. I believe it would have been helpful to have had more troops early on to stop the looting that did so much damage to Iraq's already decrepit infrastructure. The military commanders believed we had enough American troops in Iraq and that having a larger American military presence would have been counterproductive because it would have alienated Iraqis. That was a reasonable point of view, and it may have been right. The truth is that we'll never know.

But during the 14 months I was in Iraq, the administration, the military and I all agreed that the coalition's top priority was a broad, sustained effort to train Iraqis to take more responsibility for their own security. This effort, financed in large measure by the emergency supplemental budget approved by Congress last year, continues today. In the end, Iraq's security must depend on Iraqis.

Our troops continue to work closely with Iraqis to isolate and destroy terrorist strongholds. And the United States is supporting Prime Minister Ayad Allawi in his determined effort to bring security and democracy to Iraq. Elections will be held in January and, though there will be challenges and hardships, progress is being made. For the task before us now, I believe we have enough troops in Iraq.

The press has been curiously reluctant to report my constant public support for the president's strategy in Iraq and his policies to fight terrorism. I have been involved in the war on terrorism for two decades, and in my view no world leader has better understood the stakes in this global war than President Bush.

The president was right when he concluded that Saddam Hussein was a menace who needed to be removed from power. He understands that our enemies are not confined to Al Qaeda, and certainly not just to Osama bin Laden, who is probably trapped in his hide-out in Afghanistan. As the bipartisan 9/11 commission reported, there were contacts between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's regime going back a decade. We will win the war against global terror only by staying on the offensive and confronting terrorists and state sponsors of terror - wherever they are. Right now, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Qaeda ally, is a dangerous threat. He is in Iraq.

President Bush has said that Iraq is the central front in the war on terror. He is right. Mr. Zarqawi's stated goal is to kill Americans, set off a sectarian war in Iraq and defeat democracy there. He is our enemy.

Our victory also depends on devoting the resources necessary to win this war. So last year, President Bush asked the American people to make available $87 billion for military and reconstruction operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. The military commanders and I strongly agreed on the importance of these funds, which is why we stood together before Congress to make the case for their approval. The overwhelming majority of Congress understood and provided the funds needed to fight the war and win the peace in Iraq and Afghanistan. These were vital resources that Senator John Kerry voted to deny our troops.

Mr. Kerry is free to quote my comments about Iraq. But for the sake of honesty he should also point out that I have repeatedly said, including in all my speeches in recent weeks, that President Bush made a correct and courageous decision to liberate Iraq from Saddam Hussein's brutality, and that the president is correct to see the war in Iraq as a central front in the war on terrorism.

A year and a half ago, President Bush asked me to come to the Oval Office to discuss my going to Iraq to head the coalition authority. He asked me bluntly, "Why would you want to leave private life and take on such a difficult, dangerous and probably thankless job?" Without hesitation, I answered, "Because I believe in your vision for Iraq and would be honored to help you make it a reality." Today America and the coalition are making steady progress toward that vision.


L. Paul Bremer III, former chairman of the National Commission on Terrorism, was the administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq from May 2003 to June 2004.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

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multi-lateralism

Post by Simply Joel » Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:54 am

UN Council Adopts New Anti-Terror Resolution
by Evelyn Leopold

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The U.N. Security Council voted unanimously on Friday for a Russian-initiated resolution that seeks to expand the prosecution and extradition of terrorist groups and suspects, such as Chechen separatists.

But after challenges from Islamic nations, Algeria and Pakistan, Russia deleted a call for a global blacklist of terror suspects, now confined to Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

Instead it created a working group to consider measures "to be imposed upon individuals, groups or entities" involved in terrorist activities.

"While we all agree that acts against civilians are terrorist acts, there is no similar consensus on what are the rights of people struggling against foreign occupation," Pakistan's U.N. ambassador, Munir Akram, told reporters.

But despite the lack of practical measures, Russian Ambassador Andrei Denisov hoped the committee would draw up a black list, controversial for Islamic nations as well as civil libertarians.

The resolution calls on states to "deny safe haven and bring to justice" any person who supports or participates in the "financing, planning, preparation or commission of terrorist acts."

Britain's U.N. ambassador Emyr Jones Parry said that while cynics may question whether the resolution made a difference, "it will set us off not just after Al Qaeda and the Taliban but after terrorism in general."

The measure was co-sponsored by the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Spain and Romania.

Denisov said all terrorist acts against civilians were a crime "and should be given the harshest punishment" especially in light of blasts on Thursday in three Egyptian resorts.

The anti-terror proposals were first announced by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in a speech to the U.N. General Assembly last month, after a spate of attacks by Chechen rebels, including the bombing of two airliners and the deadly Beslan school siege.

Pakistan's Akram told the council that a global strategy for combating terrorism must also include a long-term program striking at the roots of the problem.

But U.S. Ambassador John Danforth said root causes in no way justified terrorism. "The resolution which we have adopted states very simply that the deliberate massacre of innocents is never justifiable in any cause -- never."

"Some claim that exploding bombs in the midst of children is in the service of God," he told the council. "That is the ultimate blasphemy."

The resolution attempts to define terrorism. It calls on nations to punish "criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public, intimidate a population or compel a government or international organization to do or abstain from doing any act" that goes against existing treaties.
Such acts, it says, "are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature."


Israel's U.N. ambassador Daniel Gillerman said Palestinian groups should be on a terror list.

"These things to a very great extent are an invention of the Palestinians," he told reporters. "They have invented it, they have perfected it and they have exported it with great skill and great destruction all over the world."

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Post by Lysergic » Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:38 am

Infinite wisdom from prophets yet to be fully understood, like countless others.....

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population"

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, scince for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despiceable an ignoreable war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

"The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one."

"So long as there are men there will be wars."

"Through the release of atomic energy, our generation has brought into the world the most revolutionary force since prehistoric man's discovery of fire. This basic force of the universe cannot be fitted into the outmoded concept of narrow nationalisms.
For there is no secret and there is no defense; there is no possibility of control except through the aroused understanding and insistence of the peoples of the world. We scientists recognise our inescapable responsibility to carry to our fellow citizens an understanding of atomic energy and its implication for society. In this lies our only security and our only hope - we believe that an informed citizenry will act for life and not for death."

^^^---ALBERT EINSTEIN---^^^
--------------------------------
Oh and these are some other awesome thoughts.......

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. "
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? "
Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948), "Non-Violence in Peace and War"
--------------------------------

"If humanity is to progress, Gandhi is inescapable. he lived, thought, and acted, inspired by the vision of humanity evolving toward a world of peace and harmony. We may ignore him at our own risk".
--Martin Luther King, Jr.

"One of the most persistent ambiguities that we face is that everybody talks about peace as a goal. However, it does not take sharpest-eyed sophistication to discern that while everbody talks about peace, peace has become practically nobodys' business among the power-wielders. Many men cry Peace! Peace! but they refuse to do the things that make for peace." --Martin Luther King,Jr.

"Wars never hurt anybody except the people who die." --Salvador Dali

"Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime" --Ernest Hemingway

"How good bad music and bad reasons sound when we march against an enemy." --Nietzsche

"There was never a good war or a bad peace." --Benjamin Franklin

"More than an end to war, we want an end to the beginning of all wars -- yes, an end to this brutal, inhuman and thoroughly impractical method of settling the differences between governments." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt.

"I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it." ----Dwight D. Eisenhower

"All who affirm the use of violence admit it is only a means to achieve justice and peace. But peace and justice are nonviolence...the final end of history. Those who abandon nonviolence have no sense of history. Rathy they are bypassing history, freezing history, betraying history."
Doubt everything. Find your own light.
--Last words of Gotama Buddha

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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:50 am

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-George Santayana

George Santayana
Philosopher, poet, literary and cultural critic, George Santayana is a principal figure in Classical American Philosophy. His naturalism and emphasis on creative imagination were harbingers of important intellectual turns on both sides of the Atlantic. He was a naturalist before naturalism grew popular; he appreciated multiple perfections before multiculturalism became an issue; he thought of philosophy as literature before it became a theme in American and European scholarly circles; and he managed to naturalize Platonism, update Aristotle, fight off idealisms, and provide a striking and sensitive account of the spiritual life without being a religious believer. His Hispanic heritage, shaded by his sense of being an outsider in America, captures many qualities of American life missed by insiders, and presents views equal to Tocqueville in quality and importance. Beyond philosophy, only Emerson may match his literary production. As a public figure, he appeared on the front cover of Time (3 February 1936), and his autobiography (Persons and Places, 1944) and only novel (The Last Puritan, 1936) were the best-selling books in the United States as Book-of-the-Month Club selections. The novel was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize, and Edmund Wilson ranked Persons and Places among the few first-rate autobiographies, comparing it favorably to Yeats's memoirs, The Education of Henry Adams, and Proust's Remembrance of Things Past. Remarkably, Santayana achieved this stature in American thought without being an American citizen. He proudly retained his Spanish citizenship throughout his life. Yet, as he readily admitted, it is as an American that his philosophical and literary corpuses are to be judged. Using contemporary classifications, Santayana is the first and foremost Hispanic-American philosopher

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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:19 am

October 9, 2004
The Report That Nails Saddam
By DAVID BROOKS

Saddam Hussein saw his life as an unfolding epic narrative, with retreats and advances, but always the same ending. He would go down in history as the glorious Arab leader, as the Saladin of his day. One thousand years from now, schoolchildren would look back and marvel at the life of The Struggler, the great leader whose life was one of incessant strife, but who restored the greatness of the Arab nation.

They would look back and see the man who lived by his saying: "We will never lower our heads as long as we live, even if we have to destroy everybody." Charles Duelfer opened his report on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction with those words. For a humiliated people, Saddam would restore pride by any means.

Saddam knew the tools he would need to reshape history and establish his glory: weapons of mass destruction. These weapons had what Duelfer and his team called a "totemic" importance to him. With these weapons, Saddam had defeated the evil Persians. With these weapons he had crushed his internal opponents. With these weapons he would deter what he called the "Zionist octopus" in both Israel and America.

But in the 1990's, the world was arrayed against him to deprive him of these weapons. So Saddam, the clever one, The Struggler, undertook a tactical retreat. He would destroy the weapons while preserving his capacities to make them later. He would foil the inspectors and divide the international community. He would induce it to end the sanctions it had imposed to pen him in. Then, when the sanctions were lifted, he would reconstitute his weapons and emerge greater and mightier than before.

The world lacked what Saddam had: the long perspective. Saddam understood that what others see as a defeat or a setback can really be a glorious victory if it is seen in the context of the longer epic.

Saddam worked patiently to undermine the sanctions. He stored the corpses of babies in great piles, and then unveiled them all at once in great processions to illustrate the great humanitarian horrors of the sanctions.

Saddam personally made up a list of officials at the U.N., in France, in Russia and elsewhere who would be bribed. He sent out his oil ministers to curry favor with China, France, Turkey and Russia. He established illicit trading relations with Ukraine, Syria, North Korea and other nations to rebuild his arsenal.

It was all working. He acquired about $11 billion through illicit trading. He used the oil-for-food billions to build palaces. His oil minister was treated as a "rock star," as the report put it, at international events, so thick was the lust to trade with Iraq.

France, Russia, China and other nations lobbied to lift sanctions. Saddam was, as the Duelfer report noted, "palpably close" to ending sanctions.

With sanctions weakening and money flowing, he rebuilt his strength. He contacted W.M.D. scientists in Russia, Belarus, Bulgaria and elsewhere to enhance his technical knowledge base. He increased the funds for his nuclear scientists. He increased his military-industrial-complex's budget 40-fold between 1996 and 2002. He increased the number of technical research projects to 3,200 from 40. As Duelfer reports, "Prohibited goods and weapons were being shipped into Iraq with virtually no problem."

And that is where Duelfer's story ends. Duelfer makes clear on the very first page of his report that it is a story. It is a mistake and a distortion, he writes, to pick out a single frame of the movie and isolate it from the rest of the tale.

But that is exactly what has happened. I have never in my life seen a government report so distorted by partisan passions. The fact that Saddam had no W.M.D. in 2001 has been amply reported, but it's been isolated from the more important and complicated fact of Saddam's nature and intent.

But we know where things were headed. Sanctions would have been lifted. Saddam, rich, triumphant and unbalanced, would have reconstituted his W.M.D. Perhaps he would have joined a nuclear arms race with Iran. Perhaps he would have left it all to his pathological heir Qusay.

We can argue about what would have been the best way to depose Saddam, but this report makes it crystal clear that this insatiable tyrant needed to be deposed. He was the menace, and, as the world dithered, he was winning his struggle. He was on the verge of greatness. We would all now be living in his nightmare.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

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putting a little moral clarity on the question....

Post by Simply Joel » Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:00 am

Investigators dig up mass grave seeking evidence to nail Saddam

HATRA, Iraq (AFP) - Forensic experts digging for evidence against ousted Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein have carried out their first full exhumation of a mass grave filled with the skeletons of scores of women and children, many shot in the back of the head.

"This is all women and children. We have taken in excess of 120 bodies out of there," US investigator Greg Kehoe said Wednesday as he stood over one of nine trenches piled with bones and scraps of clothes and jewelry near the northern Iraqi town of Hatra.

Among the dead are pregnant women, even a young boy still clutching his ball, whose bodies were ploughed into their earthen tombs by bulldozers.

"This is something in the time Ive been doing mass graves Ive never seen done before," said Kehoe, a lawyer who has also worked in the Balkans.

The bodies are believed to be those of hundreds of Kurds killed by Saddam's feared regime in a deadly campaign in 1987 and 1988, for which the toppled Iraqi leader is facing trial on charges of crimes against humanity.

"These bodies were just pushed in. It was all women and children. No men. All these people were executed with small arms fire... (It) includes pregnant woman," said Kehoe.

There are about 40 known mass graves in Iraq containing possibly tens thousands of bodies dumped by Saddam's regime.

But exhumation has in many cases been a free-for-all, with relatives searching for loved ones in the early days after the fall of Baghdad accidentally destroying or tampering with evidence that could be used against Saddam.

Kehoe and a team of US, British and Iraqi forensic experts are now conducting full scientific exhumations to preserve hard evidence, uncovering the ghastly horrors of the old regime.

Saddam, who first appeared before a court in July, faces seven charges including the 1987-88 offensive that saw Kurdish villages razed in northern Iraq and the gassing of the village of Halabja, which left 5,000 people dead.

Kehoe said the Hatra grave was the first to be exhumed according to international standards since his appointment last December, but said his team hopes to work on another 10 sites.

"Were trying to meet international standards that have been accepted by courts throughout the world," Kehoe said.

"One woman when she was executed was carrying her two-year old child, shot in the back of the head. She was shot in the face," he said.

The former US prosecutor's voice cracked as he showed slides of some of the victims.

"This is a young boy with a ball, still holding onto the ball when we uncovered him... This is the little ball he was holding onto, you see his little arm right here, this little ball, this little arm, this little boy."

In the end, he hopes to be able to identify the bodies and return them to families.

"Everybody said never again after the Holocaust. The world wasnt listening. Thats how it happened again and again and again."

He said he thinks often about the piles of children's bones he has seen lying in the dirt.

"Sometimes, you go in there, you see soldiers, and it's not to justify it, but my God, little babies, women, with their children shot in the back of the head.. Why," he asked in a whisper.

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Post by samtzu » Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:29 am

I ran across this in a (of all things) military web site that is usually right wing (to say the least! Rabid right wing might be closer). I trust the source.

If you want an in-depth, at the source, view of the Iraqi War, read this.

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNe ... 5057321193
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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yea

Post by Lysergic » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:41 pm

Well not a lot of Americans are let in on the real story in Iraq, much as it was like with vietnam. Most Americans don't really give a shit and thats the flaw. Most of the protesters have given up but there is still a few shining the way...

The people of this country as so censored it makes me puke, thx god we finally have the internet...
Doubt everything. Find your own light.
--Last words of Gotama Buddha

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Post by samtzu » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:59 pm

Lysergic wrote:
The people of this country as so censored it makes me puke, thx god we finally have the internet...
Amen and amen...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Re: yea

Post by Simply Joel » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:23 pm

Lysergic wrote:The people of this country as so censored it makes me puke
in comparison to what?

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Post by tisha2 » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:21 am

The only thing going on was a war, and no on seemed to notice but Yossarian and Dunbar. And when Yossarian tried to remind people, they drew away from him and thought he was crazy. Even Clevinger, who should have known better but didn't, had told him he was crazy the last time they had seen each other, which was just before Yosarian had fled into the hospital.
Clevinger had stared at him with apoplectic rage and indignation and, clawing the table with both hands, had shouted, "You're crazy!"
"Clevinger, what do you want from people?" Dunbar had replied wearily above the noises of the officers' club.
"I'm not joking," Clevinger persisted.
"They're trying to kill me," Yossarian told him calmly.
"No one's trying to kill you," Clevinger cried.
"Then why are they shooting at me?" Yossarian asked.
"They're shooting at everyone," Clevinger answered, "They're trying to kill everyone."
"And what difference does that make?"
Clevinger was already on the way, half out of his chair with emotion, his eyes moist and his lips quivering ans pale. As always occurred when he quarreled over principles in which he believed passionately, he would end up gasping furiously for air and blinking back bitter tears of conviction. There were many principles in which Clevinger believed passionately. He was crazy.
"Who's they?" he wanted to know. "Who, specifically, do you think is trying to murder you?"
"Every one of them," Yossarian told him.
"Every one of whom?"
"Every one of whom do you think?"
"I haven't any idea."
"Then how do you know they aren't?"
"Because..." Clevinger sputtered, and turned speechless with frustration.
Clevinger really thought he was right, but Yossarian had proof, because strangers he didn't know shot at him with cannons every time he flew up into the air to drop bombs on them, and it wasn't funny at all.
Catch 22 - Joseph Heller
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Post by samtzu » Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:39 am

Tisha--- that section is one of my all time favorites... for a very obvious reason: Yossarian is right!
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Simply Joel » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:18 am

October 27, 2004

The Best Political News of 2004
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

WASHINGTON — Good news is no news. That's why the most historic development of this news-drenched year has not been on front pages and hasn't led TV newscasts.

Against all dire predictions and threats from terrorists, Afghanistan - breeding ground of Al Qaeda under the medieval rule of Taliban fundamentalists - has just held the first presidential election in its bloodstained history.

The winner was Hamid Karzai, 46, a politician of the majority Pashtuns, who emerged with 55 percent of the eight million votes cast. The runner-up, Yunus Qanooni, received 1.2 million votes; after grumbling about a few hundred stuffed ballot boxes, Mr. Qanooni, a hero of the minority Tajik population, yesterday conceded Karzai's victory.

A bigger winner was the Afghan people. Their men - fierce nationalists who used U.S. munitions to humiliate the Red Army, thereby hastening the demise of the Soviet Union - had fallen victim to regional dissension and Taliban fanatics supported by Arab terrorists. Their women were hidden at home and treated like slaves. Now, thanks to the U.S.-led intervention and their own willingness to fight for freedom, Afghans lined up to vote in the first presidential election in that nation's history.

The biggest winner of this unfettering event is the cause of democracy in the world, and especially in this region, which much of the West assumed was too culturally backward to express a longing for freedom.

We should not be so wrapped up in our own political campaign to fail to recognize the power of this message: if the loosely connected Afghan tribes can do majority rule and minority respect, so could the more literate Iraqis, numerous Egyptians, rich Saudis and misled Palestinians.


American and British Wilsonian idealists can hold their heads high today; the defeatists who presume to call themselves realists were defeated.

It came about, first, because American power - and our vengeful will to do justice after 9/11 - made it possible. Our long-range and naval air power and Special Operations forces provided decisive backing to the indigenous Tajik Northern Alliance resistance. With prodigious economic and political pressure, U.S. diplomats induced Pakistan to double-cross its Taliban ally and join our war on the terrorist haven.

It came about, second, because we had a trio of Afghan-Americans in the diaspora who could step into the transition without appearing to be occupiers: the neocon Zalmay Khalilzad became our ambassador in Kabul, joined by Ashraf Ghani of Johns Hopkins University as minister of finance and Ali Ahmed Jalali of the Voice of America as interior minister.

Charles Fairbanks Jr. notes in the current Weekly Standard that all three will have to bail out as local Afghans take full charge, but nation-building requires talented emissaries who speak the language and relate to the people.

As those who believe that democracy stands no chance in Iraq are quick to point out, Afghan progress also came about because we brought along NATO allies girded with a U.N. blessing. There is no denying this has played an important part in success so far, though not the central part.

More of the credit should go to President Bush's shrewd choice of a leader who turned out to be Afghanistan's choice this week. Karzai is one gutsy, deft and appealing politician. With his appointments and parceling out of U.S. aid, for the past three years he has split the ethnic opposition, undercut the most dangerous warlord and built a coalition that ran a winning campaign.

The crucial moment came early, I'm informed, as he was juggling political plums to create a governing coalition, when a group of tribal elders told him bluntly: "If you have the U.S. behind you, we're behind you; otherwise, no." We were there for him; now he's there for democracy, and we should invest strongly in his nation's growth.

A nascent republic needs its Ataturk, its Nehru, its Adenauer. With his overwhelming election mandate, the shyly charismatic Karzai can better combat the corrupting power of the poppy growers, and then turn to the next stage in building a democracy: electing a parliament.

The embodiment of this year's good news is an optimist. I asked him recently when he expected Osama bin Laden to be caught. He replied, "You can't be a fugitive forever."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

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Just so you know who was referenced by Safire.

Post by Simply Joel » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:52 am

MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATÜRK • Military and Political Leader

Name at birth: Mustafa Rizi
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was the military and political leader who brought about the end of the Ottoman Empire and the beginning of modern Turkey. As a student he was nicknamed Kemal for his excellence in mathematics (it means "perfection"), and he excelled early in his military career. In the Turkish defense of the Dardanelles in 1915 his military acumen and heroics made him a national icon. He was promoted to general at the age of 35 and given command of the army near the Black Sea port of Samsun. He defied the Sultan's orders to quash opposition and instead built an army of his own to fight for independence from European control. The Sultan ordered his arrest, but to no avail. Between 1919 and 1923 Kemal successfully fought off foreign armies as well as opposition forces from Turkey. On 23 October 1923 the national parliament declared the existence of the Republic of Turkey with Kemal as president. His fifteen years in office were turbulent -- he ruled as a dictator as he attempted political and social reforms -- but in 1934 the parliament officially dubbed him Atatürk, which means "father of the Turks."


Jawaharlal Nehru
AKA 'Pandit' (pundit or teacher).
Country: India.
Cause: Liberation of India from British colonial rule.
Background: British occupation of India begins at the start of the 17th Century, with the 'Raj' reaching its zenith at the end of the 19th Century. Indian opposition to colonial rule gains focus in the early 20th Century as the nation unites to expel the British. More background.
Mini biography: Born of 14 November 1889 at Allahabad in northern India, into a wealthy Kashmiri Brahman family.
1905 - Nehru studies at Harrow school in England, staying there for two years before entering Trinity College at the University of Cambridge, where he spends three years earning an honours degree in natural science. He qualifies as a barrister after two years at the Inner Temple, London.
1912 - Nehru returns to India and practices law in the Allahabad High Court.
1916 - He marries Kamala Kaul. Their only child, Indira Priyadarshini (Indira Gandhi), is also destined to serve as prime minister of India. Nehru meets Mahatma Gandhi for the first time at the annual meeting of the Indian National Congress Party in Lucknow.
1917 - The British Parliament announces that Indians will be allowed greater participation in the colonial administration and that self-governing institutions will be gradually developed.
1919 - The promise of self-governing institutions is realised with the passing of the Government of India Act by the British Parliament. The act introduces a dual administration in which both elected Indian legislators and appointed British officials share power, although the British retain control of critical portfolios like finance, taxation and law and order.
However, the goodwill created by the move is undermined in March by the passing of the Rowlatt Acts. These acts empower the Indian authorities to suppress sedition by censoring the press, detaining political activists without trial, and arresting suspects without a warrant. Nehru now becomes closely involved in the Congress Party.
Gandhi begins a campaign of passive resistance or 'satyagraha' (the devotion to truth, or truth force) against the Rowlatt Acts and British rule. The satyagraha movement spreads through India, gaining millions of followers. The movement is halted on 13 April when British troops fire at point-blank range into a crowd of 10,000 unarmed and unsuspecting Indians gathered at Amritsar in the Punjab to celebrate a Hindu festival. A total of 1,650 rounds are fired, killing 379 and wounding 1,137. The incident galvanises Nehru, who becomes a staunch nationalist.
1920 - Gandhi proclaims an organised campaign of noncooperation and advocates 'ahimsa' (nonviolence) and 'swaraj' (self-rule), particularly in the economic sphere. Nehru joins the campaign. During the year, Gandhi refashions the Congress Party from an elite organisation into an effective political instrument with widespread grassroots support. Nehru supports the reforms.
1921 - Nehru is arrested by the British and imprisoned for the first time. Over the next 24 years he will spend more than nine years in jail, with the longest of his nine detentions lasting for three years.
Nehru will occupy much of his time in prison writing. His major works will include 'Glimpses of World History' (1934), his 'Autobiography' (1936, and 'The Discovery of India' (1946).
Meanwhile, the Congress Party gives Gandhi complete executive authority. However, after a series of violent confrontations between Indian demonstrators and the British authorities, Gandhi ends the campaign of civil disobedience.
1923 - Nehru becomes general secretary of the Congress for a period of two years, attaining the position again in 1927 for another two years.
1926 - He tours Europe and the Soviet Union, where he develops an interest in Marxism.
1927 - The British establish a commission to recommend further constitutional steps towards greater self-rule but fail to appoint an Indian to the panel. In response, the Congress boycotts the commission throughout India and drafts its own constitution demanding full independence by 1930.
1929 - Under Gandhi's patronage, Nehru is elected president of the Congress at the party's Lahore session. Nehru is to serve as party president six times.
1930 - Nehru is arrested during a new campaign of civil disobedience orchestrated by Gandhi. The campaign calls upon the Indian population to refuse to pay taxes, particularly the tax on salt, and centres on a 400 km march to the sea between 12 March and 6 April.
Thousands follow Gandhi as he walks south from his commune at Ahmedabad (the capital of Gujarat) to Dandi (near Surat on the Gulf of Cambay). When they arrive they illegally make salt by evaporating seawater. In May, Gandhi is arrested and held in custody for the rest of the year. About 30,000 other members of the independence movement are also held in jail.
1931 - Gandhi accepts a truce with the British, calls off civil disobedience, and travels to London to attend a 'Round Table Conference'. On his return to India he finds that the situation has deteriorated.
1932 - Hopes that calm will prevail following the negotiations between the Indians and the British are dashed when Gandhi and Nehru are arrested. Nehru is sentenced to two years imprisonment.
1934 - When Gandhi formally resigns from politics, Nehru becomes leader of the Congress Party.
1935 - Limited self-rule is achieved when the British Parliament passes the Government of India Act. The act gives Indian provinces a system of democratic, autonomous government. However it is only implemented after Gandhi gives his approval.
1937 - In February, when the elections under the Government of India Act bring the Congress to power in a majority of the provinces, Nehru is faced with a dilemma. Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the leader of the defeated Muslim League, asks for the formation of coalition Congress-Muslim League governments in some of the provinces. His request is denied.
The subsequent clash between the Congress and the Muslim League hardens into a conflict between Hindus and Muslims that will ultimately lead to the partition of India and the creation of Pakistan.
1939 - When the Second World War breaks out in September Britain unilaterally declares India's involvement on the side of the Allies. Nehru argues that India's place is alongside the democracies but insists that India can only fight as a free country. The Congress withdraws from government and decides it will not support the British war effort unless India is granted complete and immediate independence. The Muslim League, meanwhile, supports the British during the war.
1940 - Nehru is arrested and sentenced to four years imprisonment but is released after little more than a year, along with other Congress prisoners, three days before the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbour in Hawaii. Meanwhile, the Muslim League adopts the 'Pakistan Resolution' calling for the partition of India into two separate sovereign states, one Muslim, the other Hindu.
1942 - With Japanese forces reaching the eastern borders of India, the British attempt to negotiate with the Indians. However, Gandhi and Nehru will accept nothing less than independence and call on the British to leave the subcontinent.
When the Congress Party passes its 'Quit India' resolution in Bombay on 8 August the entire Congress Working Committee, including Gandhi and Nehru, is arrested and imprisoned. Nehru is not released from this, his ninth, last and longest period of detention, until 15 June 1945.
Also during 1942 Gandhi officially designates Nehru as his political heir.
1944 - The British Government agrees to independence for India on condition that the two contending nationalist groups, the Muslim League and the Congress Party, resolve their differences.
1946 - Nehru, with Gandhi's blessing, is invited by the British to form an interim government to organise the transition to independence. Fearing it will be excluded from power, the Muslim League declares 16 August 'Direct Action Day'. When communal rioting breaks out in the north, partition comes to be seen as a valid alternative to the possibility of civil war. Nehru attempts to prevent partition but is unsuccessful.
1947 - On 3 June the British announce plans for the partition of the British Indian Empire into the separate nations of India and Pakistan. Pakistan is further divided into east and west states on either side of India. At midnight on 15 August India and Pakistan formally achieve their sovereignty. Nehru delivers a famous speech on India's "tryst with destiny", but the initial jubilation is soon tempered by violence.
Sectarian riots erupt as Muslims in India flee to Pakistan while Hindus in Pakistan flee the other way. Hundreds of thousands die in north India, at least 12 million become refugees, and a limited war over the incorporation of Kashmir into India breaks out between the two nation states.
Nehru becomes the first prime minister of independent India and introduces a mix of socialist planning and free enterprise measures to repair and build the country's ravaged economy. He also takes the external affairs portfolio, serving as foreign minister throughout his tenure as prime minister.
1950 - India becomes a republic with Nehru as its prime minister. He is deeply involved in the development and implementation of the country's five-year plans that over the course of the 1950s and 1960s see India become one of the most industrialised nations in the world.
Industrial complexes are established around the country, while innovations are encouraged by an expansion of scientific research. In the decade between 1951 and 1961, the national income of India rises 42%.
Nehru also pursues reforms to improve the social condition of women and the poor. The minimum marriageable age is increased from 12 to 15, women are given the right to divorce their husbands and inherit property, and the dowry system is made illegal. Absentee landlords are stripped of their land, which is then transferred to tenant farmers who can document their right to occupancy.
In foreign affairs, Nehru advocates policies of nationalism, anticolonialism, internationalism, and nonalignment or "positive neutrality". He founds the nonaligned movement with Yugoslavia's Josip Broz Tito and Egypt's Gamal Abdel-Nasser and becomes one of the key spokesmen of the nonaligned nations of Asia and Africa.
Nehru argues for the admission of China to the United Nations (UN) and calls for détente between the United States and the Soviet Union. Acting as a mediator, he also helps to end the Korean War of 1950-53.
1956 - India under Nehru is the only nonaligned country in the UN to vote with the Soviet Union on the invasion of Hungary, calling into question the country's nonaligned status.
1961 - Indian troops occupy the Portuguese enclave at Goa on the west coast of the country in December, removing the last remaining colonial administration on the subcontinent and ending six years of unsuccessful negotiations.
1962 - A long-standing border dispute with China breaks out into war, despite Nehru's efforts to improve relations between the two countries. When the Chinese threaten to overrun the Brahmaputra River valley on India's northern border, Nehru calls for aid from the West. China withdraws but Nehru's nonalignment policy is further discredited.
1963 - He suffers a slight stroke, followed by a more debilitating attack in January 1964.
1964 - Nehru dies in office on 27 May in New Delhi from a third and fatal stroke.
Comment: The secular and practical balance to Gandhi's spiritual idealism, Nehru was no less passionate in his pursuit of independence for India. Though often overshadowed by the Mahatma, he was no less admired. He had the cultural and intellectual credibility necessary to first attract the younger intelligentsia to Gandhi's campaigns and then rally them after independence had been gained.
Nehru's tenure as prime minister has however come under critical analysis. Always a democratic socialist, his five-year plans helped to establish the economic independence that Gandhi had advocated. Nehru's domestic policies were centred on democracy, socialism, unity, and secularism. Today India is one of the strongest democracies in the world and is beginning to take off as an economic power. Nehru's only child, Indira Gandhi, served as India's prime minister from 1966 to 1977 and from 1980 to 1984. Her son, Rajiv Gandhi, was prime minister from 1984 to 1989.
Konrad Adenauer

Biography
Konrad Adenauer was born on January 5, 1876, in Cologne. His father, Konrad sr., was a clerical civil servant, and his mother, née Helene Scharfenberg, had also been brought up in a civil servant's family. Together with three siblings, two elder brothers and one younger sister, Konrad Adenauer grew up in modest circumstances. At his grammar school, the Apostelgymnasium, he was thought a 'good, unspectacular, average pupil'. After his graduation in 1894, he began work as a bank apprentice but abandoned his apprenticeship when he was awarded a grant by the City of Cologne that enabled him to begin studying law at Freiburg University. Having spent two semesters at Munich, where he also attended classes in national economics, he moved to Bonn, where he passed his first state examination with fair success in 1897. The second state examination he passed with adequate marks in Berlin in 1901. Having spent his allotted time as a junior official at the office of the Public Prosecutor attached to the Cologne Regional Court, he joined in 1902 a law firm in Cologne headed by councillor Hermann Kausen who was Chairman of the Centre party group in the city council.

It was a foregone conclusion that Adenauer, a Catholic from the Rhineland, was predestined by both his origin and his upbringing to join the Centre Party, the party of political Catholicism. His political career began after he married in 1904 Emma Weyer, the twenty-four-year-old daughter of a respectable, prosperous Cologne family. By virtue of this marriage, he was brought into contact with the societal and political trendsetters among the burghers of the Rhineland. In 1906, he applied successfully for the career city councillor post. Three years later, he was elected President of the council, which automatically made him deputy of Max Wallraff, the then Lord Mayor, who was an uncle of Adenauer's wife. It was particularly during the First World War that Konrad Adenauer's deftness and imagination stood him in good stead in organising the food supply of the City of Cologne. His professional success, however, was overshadowed by fateful events in his personal life. In 1916, he lost his wife, who had borne him three children. Adenauer himself was involved in a severe car crash in which he suffered facial injuries that held him captive for months in hospital and later in a health resort. When Wallraff left for Berlin in 1917 to become Under-Secretary of State for Interior Affairs, he left the office of Lord Mayor of Cologne vacant, and Adenauer was appointed his successor by the unanimous vote of all members of the City Council. This election made him the youngest mayor in Prussia.

In the time of the Weimar Republic, Adenauer was one of the most influential political personages in Germany. He made his name by progressively developing Cologne into a 'metropolis of the West'. During his term of office, Cologne University was founded in 1919, the city's former fortifications were converted into a green belt, the traditional industrial exhibition was revived, port facilities on the Rhine river were extended, another bridge across the Rhine was built, and industrial enterprises, the Ford Company among them, were induced to settle within the municipality. In 'big politics', Adenauer became one of the key figures dominating the Rhineland question. To prevent the outright annexation of the occupied area on the left bank, he advocated for a time the creation of a Rhenish Federal State so as to appease the French in their need for safety. That he cooperated with the so-called Rhineland Movement gave him the reputation of being a 'separatist', particularly during the Nazi period.

His influence spread beyond regional boundaries when he was made President of the Prussian State Council in 1921, an office which he held until 1933. Repeatedly, he was mentioned in government circles as one of the candidates for the office of Chancellor in the periodic crises of the Weimar Republic. In conjunction with his fundamental federalist, Christian, and social convictions, his republicanism made him an object of hate among the adversaries of the Weimar 'system'. When the Nazis came to power in 1933, therefore, he was immediately replaced as Lord Mayor of Cologne and banished from the city of his birth.

Adenauer lived through the years of war and National Socialist tyranny together with his family in the house on the Zennigsweg in Rhöndorf which he had built after the financial claims he had against the municipality of Cologne had been settled out of court. His situation became somewhat hazardous when, by the end of the war, he was held prisoner by the Gestapo for several months as an enemy of the regime after the assassination attempt on Hitler had failed.

He was returned to the office of Lord Mayor of Cologne by the victorious Americans. Aged 69, Adenauer was then at the head of a list of personally untainted politicians. With unbroken strength he faced up to the task of reviving a city that had been largely ruined. After a very few months, and after a switch of control, he was dismissed from office by the British military government then in charge after he had criticised its occupation policy. For the second time in his life, Adenauer found himself compelled to retire and expelled from Cologne. The ban on political activity, which had been imposed at the same time, had barely been lifted when Adenauer, who by then was 70, focussed all his energies on his activities within the CDU, which he had joined shortly after its foundation. A number of political concepts and programmatical ideas which he had developed after the First World War and submitted to the test of his experiences during the rule of the Nazis laid the foundations for a 'lightning career' in his party. As early as February 5, 1946, Adenauer was elected Chairman of the Rhineland CDU and - a scant month later - Chairman of the CDU of the British Zone. By october, he had added the office of Chairman of the CDU party group in the North Rhine-Westphalian Parliament to his list of offices. His rise as the charismatic Chancellor who was in office when the Federal Republic of Germany was founded and the respect he enjoyed as a statesman of the Western World are closely related to the origins of the conflict between East and West and the beginnings of the Cold War.

He took his most important step on his way to the top of the nascent West German governmental system when he was elected President of the Parliamentary Council created at the instruction of the three Western Allied Powers in 1948 to formulate the Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Germany. It was in this position that he became the 'spokesman of the budding Federal Republic' (Heuss) in its contacts with both the Land Minister Presidents and the military governors, which brought him increasing fame among the general public. At the age of 73, he was elected Federal Chancellor by the CDU/CSU party group in the first German Federal Diet on September 15, 1949, an office which he was destined to hold for 14 years.

The governments he led prepared the ground for the successful construction of a new democracy. Some epoch-making decisions will remain connected to the 'Adenauer era' forever. In foreign politics, these include the achievement of national sovereignty, the establishment of close ties with the free West, the reconciliation of France, and the unification of Europe; in domestic policy, they include the integration of refugees and displaced persons as well as the construction of social market economy, a novel economic order amalgamating the promotion of free competition with the responsibility of social government. The 'economic miracle' of Germany could not have been brought about without secure social peace in the country. Legislation establishing co-determination in the coal and steel industry, the system of employee property formation, the equalisation of burdens, the creation of subsidised housing, child benefits, the agricultural Green Plan, and the dynamisation of pensions became the cornerstones of the much-famed social network of the Federal Republic of Germany. For the first time, social policy in Germany acquired permanent and coherent structural overtones.

At the general elections of 1957, the CDU/CSU headed by Adenauer won an absolute majority of 50.2% of the votes cast - an achievement that is probably unique. When Adenauer's third period of office as Chancellor ended, however, uncertainties had become preponderant. The general picture of global politics had changed after the United States had modified its priorities, and this, in turn, caused the Soviets to bring more pressure to bear on Berlin (Berlin ultimatum; three-state theory). Domestic politics, in turn, succumbed to the struggle for the 'old man's' succession. One historical feat at the time was the establishment of close political ties between Germany and France on the strength of the friendship between Adenauer and de Gaulle, who had met for the first time in 1958. On the other hand, political relations between the two German entities reached an all-time low. The construction of the Berlin Wall on August 13, 1961, just a few weeks before the fourth general elections, seemed to be cementing the separation of Germany. Having been elected Chancellor once again by a coalition of CDU/CSU and FDP in 1961, Adenauer stepped down at the half-way mark of the legislative period in conformance with a previous agreement.

Konrad Adenauer's attraction waned as the war generation was replaced by the children of the reconstruction period. In 1966, he resigned as Federal Chairman of the CDU. For the last time, he achieved political success in 1963 when the Franco-German Treaty was signed, a treaty which not only focussed on cooperation between the two neighbouring states but pointed the way to Europe, one of the overriding goals of Adenauer's policy.

When he died aged 91 on April 19, 1967, he received worldwide honours as a statesman who gave freedom, prosperity, and social security to the citizens of the Federal Republic. Konrad Adenauer lies buried in Rhöndorf. A foundation has directed the conversion of his house into a museum and research institution. His memoirs, the first volume of which appeared in 1965, and an edited version of his correspondence represent historical source materials of the first order.

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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:39 pm

war=0 peace=1
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:13 pm

gee... i guess you can't be critical of Islam and live free, eh?


November 2, 2004
Dutch Filmmaker and Critic of Islam Is Killed
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) -- A Dutch filmmaker who had criticized the treatment of women under Islam in a movie and in newspaper columns was shot dead Tuesday outside a city government office in Amsterdam, police said.

Police spokeswoman Elly Florax confirmed media reports the victim was filmmaker Theo van Gogh and that a suspect had been arrested after a shootout in a local park. The suspect, who was not identified, and a police officer were injured, she said.

No motive was given for the attack.

Van Gogh had made headlines recently with a film critical of some elements of Islamic culture. He also wrote columns about the Islam which were published on his Web site, www.theovangogh.nl, and Dutch newspaper Metro. He had reportedly received death threats following the airing of the film.

The short television film ``Submission'' aired on Dutch television in August and enraged the Muslim community in the Netherlands which said it was provocative and lacked insight.

It told the fictional story of a Muslim woman forced into a violent marriage, raped by a relative and brutally punished for adultery.

The English-language film was scripted by a right-wing politician who years ago renounced the Islamic faith of her birth and now refers to herself as an ``ex-Muslim.''

Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a member of the Dutch parliament, has repeatedly outraged fellow Muslims by criticizing Islamic customs and the failure of Muslim families to adopt Dutch ways.

The place of Muslim immigrants in Dutch society has long been a contentious issue in the Netherlands, where many right-wing politicians have pushed for tougher immigration laws and say Muslims already settled in the country must make a greater effort to assimilate.

Theo van Gogh, 47, has often come under criticism for his controversial movies. In December, his next movie ``06-05,'' about the May 6, 2002 assassination of Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, is scheduled to debut on the Internet.

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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Q_
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Post by Q_ » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:21 pm

/\

The article that you posted does not contain any evidence that Van Gogh was murdered because of his political views. In fact, the article clearly states that at this time there is no known motive for the attack. The suspect’s religious beliefs were also not mentioned. When we jump to conclusions we tend to never follow up and just commit the incident to memory based on our own prejudice.
Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the wise but seek what they sought

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Post by Q_ » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:07 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3973779.stm

Summary, We are now extending the service time of 6500 soldiers in Iraq by two months. (to make sure we have enough people in Iraq to support the elections)

President Cathcart is really screwing Yossarian over this time.

If somebody finds this article in a US paper or site, please let me know.
Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the wise but seek what they sought

Simply Joel
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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:48 am

December 14, 2004
Iraqi Premier Says Trials for Ex-Leaders to Start Next Week
By TERENCE NEILAN

ar crimes trials against some of Iraq's former Baath Party leaders will begin next week, the interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, said today, although he did not say if Saddam Hussein would be among them.

"I can now tell you clearly and precisely that, God willing, next week the trials of the symbols of the former regime will start, one by one, so that justice can take its path in Iraq," Dr. Allawi told Iraq's interim National Council in a televised address.

Violence continued in Iraq, meanwhile, as a suicide bomber struck a checkpoint at the compound housing the interim Iraqi government and embassies, the second such attack at the same location in two days. The number of fatalities was not immediately confirmed, with reports ranging from one to seven. Nine Iraqis died in Monday's attack.

Two marines were also killed in action on Monday in Anbar Province, the American military said today, bringing the number of marines killed in the region to 10 in three days.

In London, the High Court backed demands for an independent inquiry into claims that a hotel worker in Basra, in southern Iraq, was beaten to death by British soldiers.

"Today is an historic day for human rights," said Phil Shiner, a lawyer for the family of the victim, Baha Mousa, 26, Reuters reported.

Britain's Ministry of Defense said it would seek permission to appeal the ruling. Many accusations of abuse have been made against the American-led occupation forces, most notably involving Iraqis held at Abu Ghraib prison, near Baghdad.

Many members of Iraq's former regime have been in jail for more than a year, and Dr. Allawi had earlier called for trials to begin by November, but it became clear that Iraqi judges and prosecutors would be ill-prepared to hold such hearings.

The judges and prosecutors have undergone special training in London organized by American lawyers, who have assisted them in setting up courtrooms and preparing trials. Britain has also lent its support.

Pressure on the Iraqis to move has been mounting recently. On Monday, the United States military said 8 of Mr. Hussein's top 11 lieutenants went on hunger strikes over the weekend to demand visits in jail from the International Committee of the Red Cross. They began eating again by Monday.

Dr. Allawi also said today that investigators had discovered a new mass grave in northeast Iraq that might contain 500 bodies.

He said the grave was near the city of Sulaimaniya in the autonomous Kurdish region, but he gave no further details.

Evidence from such graves, a number of which have been found in other parts of Iraq, is expected to be used by the prosecution against Mr. Hussein and his top officials, who have been accused of war crimes and other crimes against humanity during their decades in power.

Dr. Allawi also said that a cousin and former aide to Mr. Hussein had been arrested and would face trial with the former dictator and his other deputies.

He said the cousin, Izzeddine al-Majid al-Tikriti, who was not on the American list of 55 most-wanted members of Mr. Hussein's regime, was captured last week. He did not provide any other details.

Mr. Majid was accused by American authorities in July of funding and arming the anti-American insurgency in Iraq, a charge he denied.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

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Re: yea

Post by Force » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:14 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
Lysergic wrote:The people of this country as so censored it makes me puke
in comparison to what?
Well, the UK for example.

I've had to go without my normal morning talk radio for several months now so as to not have to start out my day hearing about Scott Peterson offing his wife.

Like there aren't more beneficial things that could be reported on? Please give me a break.

Open message to the propaganda/entertainment goofballs masquerading as reporters;

You're getting a decent wage, so don't hand me a plateful of crap and tell me it's cake and then act all shocked when I flip it back into your face. Just consider it part of the job, like jail for car thieves.

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