Lag screws vs everything else...

[Ratty]

So, I finally decided on a set of batt op tools. Since I'm not going to use them much and I'm very respective of my tools I settled on ryobi. I saw a lot of brand loyalty and men playing with their toys. I talked to customers and salesmen. (Yes they were all men.)

PLUS, they're lime green like a 73 Kawasaki.

[Just_Joe]

So, I finally decided on a set of batt op tools.

Lime green for the win!
If you need charging, come on over. I'm set up to do the Ryobi batteries via solar.

You'll need a 1/4" impact to 3/8" socket adapter ($4) and a 9/16" socket (you probably already have one) to drive the 14" lag screws.

[BaudEByter]

Was your mule tape shiny/slippery? I got 500ft for this purpose but when trying knots like a square knot, this stuf slipps pretty bad. I got 3/4 2500lbs

I see mule tape used on this thread, but I am not by any means a knot expert. I don't want to leave to chance (or lack of knowledge) the ability to safely secure my big ass shade.

Chain is great but takes a hella lotta time, tools, and money
Mule tape is stronger than some of the chain that can fit lags that is found in big box hardware stores.

So if you go mule:

-----Take 10" of 3/4" mule tape. Only use 3/4"
-----Tie a square knot. It's a quick knot to learn, and if you do it incorrectly, it is obvious to the eye.
-----Tie however many you need before hand.
-----Pull each one very tight to make sure the ends of the tape are not too close to the knot. There is some slippage, but not much.

Once on the playa:

---Put a heavy washer on the Lag screw.
---Dig a little hole with a hammer claw end where you want the lag screw to go. (this gives you an extra inch or two in the depth of the lag, as depending on the conditions of the playa, the strength of the screw threads vs. rebar only happens in the compacted and -sometimes wet playa that usually not close to the surface.
---Pound the lag screw in the playa a few inches, no more. This steadies the lag and gives you more control about the angle you choose.
---Impact wrench the lag until there is just enough space to slip on the mule tape in a loop fashion EXACTLY like in the pic.
---Finish sinking the lag.
first mule on lag.JPG

[DoctorIknow]

Was your mule tape shiny/slippery? I got 500ft for this purpose but when trying knots like a square knot, this stuf slipps pretty bad. I got 3/4 2500lbs

• Yes, mule tape is very slippery and demands you use the correct knot for the use of it.
  
  The square knot (aka. Reef Knot) is usually used to Join two ends of a single line to each other.
  
  NEVER put load on one of the running ends. That is not a job for a square knot.

Also, are you sure you are tying the square knot correctly?

Check the illustration below against how you tie the knot.

square knot.JPG

[FIGJAM]

Bump.

[Drizzt321]

I experimented last year with both 3-link chain and mule tape, and decided mule tape is the way to go. Much easier to get ahold of, and you can end up with whatever length you need. Use a lighter to finish the ends so it doesn't fray, and I used the water knot to tie loops, and they held really well. Put the washer on the lab screw, and impact driver to drive them in. I'm going to convert my camp infrastructure over to it, although going 1/2" x 16" for the shade & kitchen (EMT based tarp structures), and 1/2" x 24" so we can have it only partially driven in to fit the poles over and tighten down the bolts on the poles.

[DrCook]

I was looking for a solution other than chain links to use with lag screws, because the hardware stores where I live (NYC) wouldn't make all the cuts for me. I settled on climbing anchors, the ones rock climbers use to attach their ropes to a cliff in case they fall. They worked really well last year and our camp has now standardized on them.

For 3/8" diameter (up to 14") lags we used these: https://www.backcountrygear.com/zinc-pl ... btech.html (I'm not affiliated with this site, and they're widely available if you find a better price elsewhere on the interwebs)

[pedroescobar]

Are 2-3 12" 3/8 lags at the feet of each pole on a 10x20 EMT shade structure with 2 16" 1/2" lags connected to the top corners connected by ratchet straps going to be enough to keep it from flying away?

[torrey.smith]

Are 2-3 12" 3/8 lags at the feet of each pole on a 10x20 EMT shade structure with 2 16" 1/2" lags connected to the top corners connected by ratchet straps going to be enough to keep it from flying away?

Sextant had a lot of success with one or two 3/8" lags in the base last year.

I think ours were 3/8"x14"

[pedroescobar]

Yeah I haven't been able to locate 14" lags locally in Seattle. 12" was the longest I could find. I plan to have 2 guy lines per vertical pole with heavy duty ratchet straps.

[Ratty]

Pedro do you have any contacts in the SF Bay Area? Golden State Lumber can order any size so cheap.

[pedroescobar]

Pedro do you have any contacts in the SF Bay Area? Golden State Lumber can order any size so cheap.

Most of my SF friends will be heading out to Reno/Gerlach area in the next few days to rebuild some parts of camp so I don't think they will have much time. I'll just go with the 12" in the feet and larger 16" 1/2" lags for holding the whole thing down.

[DoctorIknow]

Yeah I haven't been able to locate 14" lags locally in Seattle.

I've ordered from the Fastener Superstore for years, but thru amazon as the shipping is cheaper. Search
" 3/8 X 14 Lag Screws / Hex Head / Steel / Zinc / 50 Pc. Carton "

[Token]

At least one time a decade or so, sometimes longer, sometimes sooner, the Playa doesn’t freeze-thaw enough times over the winter to fully compact into a hardpan.

In that magic year you get nice crumbly “bag of Doritos” type of Playa down ~ 12 inches.

The 10 years I’ve gone, I always carried some 2 foot rebar and a roll of genuine 3M duct tape just in case.

Used it once. That year riding bikes was so bad everyone walked, more or less. It was after a mild winter.

During the man burn there was a static cloud of dust over the whole city from all the people shuffling and dragging their feet through the powder. Didn’t clear up till the fucker was lit and burning hot.

Be prepared and don’t overthink shit.

[DoctorIknow]

In that magic year you get nice crumbly “bag of Doritos” type of Playa down ~ 12 inches.
Be prepared and don’t overthink shit.

I no longer use 14" lag screws but for the lightest of duties. It is very disheartening to use the impact tool to drive a lag screw and it penetrates the first 12" with no resistance at all.

Lag screw tip: take a hammer or piece of wood and scrape away the top 2" or so of playa before driving the lag screw in. That gives you and extra 2" deep for the lag to find worthy packed, usually wet, playa.

[DrCook]

Are 2-3 12" 3/8 lags at the feet of each pole on a 10x20 EMT shade structure with 2 16" 1/2" lags connected to the top corners connected by ratchet straps going to be enough to keep it from flying away?

I think so. We use 14" lags + ratchet straps all around the periphery of our 40' x 60' EMT shade, with 2 at the corners, and it's quite secure. The single lag we drive into each foot plate probably isn't even necessary with everything strapped down around the edges.

[torrey.smith]

I've ordered from the Fastener Superstore for years, but thru amazon as the shipping is cheaper. Search
" 3/8 X 14 Lag Screws / Hex Head / Steel / Zinc / 50 Pc. Carton "

I just ordered two cartons for Sextant. thanks for the prompt!

We've added a handful of Costco 10x20's and people tend to come ask us for lags on Playa

The biggest lags we use are 3/4"x24", generally for emergency anchoring for art projects and camps that had some logistical kerfuffle and we need something that can help in a hurry.

[LowePro]

Pedro, it doesn't matter how many or how long the lags are that you put thru the Foot Plate of your EMT structure. All that does is hold the footplate to the playa--the leg poles still try to wiggle out of the footplate and go flying away. (The only thing keeping the leg pole in the footplate is a single eyebolt.) .

The ratchet straps to the upper corner are arguably more important. I'd think yes 2 16 inchers at each corner with ratchets would be really secure. Just don't put the ratchet hooks thru the eyebolt; wrap the ratchet strap around the connector elbow itself.

[Token]

I don’t get the fascination with foot-plates and lag-bolts when a simple application of duct tape will be more reliable and easier to deploy.

Is it some loyalty to the whole lag-bolt religion?

Your straps hold the thing down.

The foot just needs to not-walk in the vibrations and dynamics of wind loading.

Stick a vertical piece of metal in the ground and duct tape it to the leg. Done.

If you are concerned with the sticky, do a layer of saran-wrap first.

[pedroescobar]

Pedro, it doesn't matter how many or how long the lags are that you put thru the Foot Plate of your EMT structure. All that does is hold the footplate to the playa--the leg poles still try to wiggle out of the footplate and go flying away. (The only thing keeping the leg pole in the footplate is a single eyebolt.) .

The ratchet straps to the upper corner are arguably more important. I'd think yes 2 16 inchers at each corner with ratchets would be really secure. Just don't put the ratchet hooks thru the eyebolt; wrap the ratchet strap around the connector elbow itself.

Awesome, that fits well with my general plan then. I'll probably still put 2 lags in the feet just because I can. with the vertical poles every one will have AT LEAST 2x 16" (1/2") lags with ratchets holding them down. I may even have a 3rd on the corners depending on camp config.

[Just_Joe]

I don’t get the fascination with foot-plates and lag-bolts when a simple application of duct tape will be more reliable and easier to deploy.

Many people (me) us the foot plate/lag screw to secure our straps in X configurations. Very hands for carports and semi-walled flat top structures. I'll tack a footplate and chain link/lag screw on each leg, giving me flexibility on where the X's go.
I typically use 3 X's on a solid tarp 10x20 and one or two straps (straight down) on an Aluminet.

[Token]

Ah, OK. Makes sense now with the anchor points.

[Just_Joe]

Ah, OK. Makes sense now with the anchor points.

Also, don't underestimate the satisfaction of driving a lag screw if you've never done it before.
My newbies enjoy it almost as much a splitting 2x4 "firewood" with an axe.

[Token]

Lol!

A vibrating high power penetrative act with much rejoicing and satisfaction!

That is awesome!

[torrey.smith]

A vibrating high power penetrative act with much rejoicing and satisfaction!

[Token]

Dammit Sarge, could have lived a happy life without seeing all that ass-crack in the fourth video!

You and your crew are legendary!!!

[LowePro]

Can anyone speak to personal experience with the more "Budget" friendly impact drivers for lagbolts *on playa*? Such as the $60 or less Ryobi, Black and Decker, or Harbor Fright drivers? Trying to keep a lid on expenses, as much as I'd love a fancy premium brand toolkit, can't justify it this year. Thanks!

[Ratty]

I bought the whole bag of Ryobi for $200. I've used the tools to build a retaining wall and other stuff. My back yard is FULL of holes where I drove in the 16 inch lags and back out again. I picked the hard pan areas just to be sure. It'll be fine. I have 2 batteries and it won't even take the one to drive 20 of these in and out.

[DoctorIknow]

Can anyone speak to personal experience with the more "Budget" friendly impact drivers for lagbolts *on playa*? Such as the $60 or less Ryobi, Black and Decker, or Harbor Fright drivers? Trying to keep a lid on expenses, as much as I'd love a fancy premium brand toolkit, can't justify it this year. Thanks!

Read thru this entire thread for more info.
I and many others, swear by the non-battery Harbor Freight "1/2 In. Heavy Duty Electric Impact Wrench". It hasn't failed me, but I buy an extra before I leave, wrap it in plastic, and for three years have returned it unopened after the burn. I wouldn't go with the impact sockets at HF however, but I could be wrong about that.

[Captain Goddammit]

You’re wrong about that lol...
the impact sockets at Harbor Freight are one of the few really good things they sell. I use ‘em and I’ve got friends who use them in professional industrial use.
They hold up quite well.