Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding the building and creation of mutant vehicles in Black Rock City
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AddamsonFlint
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Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by AddamsonFlint » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:41 am

Ok, first off, sad but necessary disclaimer, in the internet-age of saying whatever you feel like because of the lack of consequences:

This post is for positive input and suggestions. If you wanna sip haterade and talk smack, take that shit over to the Open Discussion page, or better yet, get the F- off of ePlaya.

I have a crawler/loader/backhoe endearingly named Big Daddy Crawler. Specifically, it's a 1976 JD 350-C, for any gearheads that care. I am thinking of turning it into a mutant vehicle next year.

DMV does allow tracked vehicles. My only concern is my grousers (the pads on the tracks), as they are slightly cleated. They aren't crazy like a dozer, and actually are specifically what one would normally want to have in a sandy environment. But obviously it's not just a sandy environment, it's the playa; and that is understandably different.

Some mutant vehicles get licensed solely as on-playa, and are not permitted on city streets. Maybe that's what he would get restricted to. Worst-case scenario, I'd have to rubber-wrap my treads. Doable, but a total pain in the ass, not to mention "not cheap."

But I thought I'd put up a post here to field any spiffy perspectives from others.

Thanks for reading,

Flint
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by gaminwench » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:40 am

Hey!

I suggest that you spend some quality time with the DPW folks at the big rig yard (5:30/Esp/Rod's) this year to get ALL of the dusty info (don't drool on the equipment, they hate that).

My time with MV builders leads me to believe that tracked vehicles are discouraged out there, but exceptions could be made.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by ygmir » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:36 am

I've seen a couple of tracked vehicles out there. not as heavy as yours, but tracked, none the less.
I'd imagine the big deal for DMV would be how you "mutate" it, in that it has to not look like the "original". Some exceptions have been made for very large capacity (in humans) vehicles, sort of "party barges", but even that is rare. Low as your cleats are, they'll pulverize the crust (if there is any), anywhere you go. Keeping with a slow speed, I'd not see a ton of extra dust, though it will make a lot at times.
Another concern, is leaks. I've seen few tractors, especially if "older", that don't leak. And, leaks are not ok, and there are folks out there who check, in camp and such. If you have any leaks, regardless of how small, the minimum you should consider is parking on some sort of tarp or pan.....which, given you vehicle, would be interesting, I'd imagine.
I'd love to follow you around, just to watch, point, and laugh, and the undoubtedly varied reactions you'd get, from pure hatred, to glee. Something like that would elicit so extreme responses, I'd imagine.

I also note how cute it is, that you want to tell others how to respond on or to your thread.....

good luck.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Captain Goddammit » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:03 am

It’s not a sandy environment at all.
It’s dirt with a fragile upper crust, that your tracked rig isn’t exactly going to be easy on.
That’s the elephant in the room... that and your attitude of already knowing so much about something you know very little about.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by lucky420 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:38 am

Bwahahahaha on your second paragraph

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Token » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:50 am

Playa sand content defined as mineral particles greater in size than 65 micron

3%

No sand.

Clay. Dry, slick clay powder. 200 square miles of it.

Some silt too but mostly clay.

Image

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by torrey.smith » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:40 am

Definitely go to the BM DMV guidelines ASAP.

Tracked vehicles are non-trivial on their end.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Dr. Brap » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:13 pm

The only tracked vehicle I can recall seeing in the past several years is this. Much different treads than yours and substantially mutated.
https://boingboing.net/2016/09/08/the-m ... rning.html
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:18 pm

The contact force of a tracked vehicle with the soil is very small. Estimating for that vehicle less than 3psi. That's less than a shoe and much less than a bike or a tire vehicle. You might explain that to DMV - it's counter intuitive.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Captain Goddammit » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:09 pm

But that’s not the only thing.
The issue is turning, and how smooth or cleated the tracks are. In a straight line things are pretty peachy.

If you watch a really good excavator operator spin his machine on a surface he doesn’t want to tear up, he pushes the bucket down on the ground to lift the machine up on just the back edges of the tracks, then counter rotates them while spinning the turret to stay with it.

Just counter-rotating the tracks down flat on the ground causes a lot of scrub.

I think If the driver is good and operates carefully it would probably work out. It’s all about the operator.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by lovecamper » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:43 pm

As a rule, what is the price of such a device?

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:11 pm

Honestly dude, your rig is sweet but it's probably not the right candidate for a tracked MV.

Think a shit ton of energy to get it out there, lotsa space on a trailer that could be better utilized by couches, and totally completely unnecessary to bring your own heavy equipment to Burning Man. If you really need equipment for digging trenches or holes, it can be arranged or bribed from HEAT (heavy equip and tools). As far as using the bucket as a lift? bring a ladder. Also, trying to simultaneously use a loader/back hoe for setup and covering it with enough mutation to get it licensed sounds like hell.


And if the goal was to just have a tracked MV cause treads are cool and post apocalyptic, I'd go with something that a) had flat rubber tracks to mitigate the issues mentioned above and something that could be built upon, like a flat carrier or an excavator stripped down to the swivel.

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Token » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:25 am

A-RockLeFrench wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:11 pm
Honestly dude, your rig is sweet but it's probably not the right candidate for a tracked MV.

Think a shit ton of energy to get it out there, lotsa space on a trailer that could be better utilized by couches, and totally completely unnecessary to bring your own heavy equipment to Burning Man. If you really need equipment for digging trenches or holes, it can be arranged or bribed from HEAT (heavy equip and tools). As far as using the bucket as a lift? bring a ladder. Also, trying to simultaneously use a loader/back hoe for setup and covering it with enough mutation to get it licensed sounds like hell.


And if the goal was to just have a tracked MV cause treads are cool and post apocalyptic, I'd go with something that a) had flat rubber tracks to mitigate the issues mentioned above and something that could be built upon, like a flat carrier or an excavator stripped down to the swivel.
Ouch, that is some serious harsh from a pile of fucking bones. ;)

The magic is in the articulating implements on the bow and stern.

Think this as inspiration. Different device the crane and all but you gets the idea. there is potential there for the right kind of twisted engineering.

Image

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:20 pm

some seeing eye wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:18 pm
The contact force of a tracked vehicle with the soil is very small. Estimating for that vehicle less than 3psi. That's less than a shoe and much less than a bike or a tire vehicle. You might explain that to DMV - it's counter intuitive.
The DMV has people who know a lot about heavy equipment.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by ygmir » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:05 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:09 pm
But that’s not the only thing.
The issue is turning, and how smooth or cleated the tracks are. In a straight line things are pretty peachy.

If you watch a really good excavator operator spin his machine on a surface he doesn’t want to tear up, he pushes the bucket down on the ground to lift the machine up on just the back edges of the tracks, then counter rotates them while spinning the turret to stay with it.

Just counter-rotating the tracks down flat on the ground causes a lot of scrub.

I think If the driver is good and operates carefully it would probably work out. It’s all about the operator.



[/size]

indeed it is:
lily-tomlin-as-ernestine-the-operator_100400129_l.jpg
A-RockLeFrench wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:11 pm
Honestly dude, your rig is sweet but it's probably not the right candidate for a tracked MV.

Think a shit ton of energy to get it out there, lotsa space on a trailer that could be better utilized by couches, and totally completely unnecessary to bring your own heavy equipment to Burning Man. If you really need equipment for digging trenches or holes, it can be arranged or bribed from HEAT (heavy equip and tools). As far as using the bucket as a lift? bring a ladder. Also, trying to simultaneously use a loader/back hoe for setup and covering it with enough mutation to get it licensed sounds like hell.


And if the goal was to just have a tracked MV cause treads are cool and post apocalyptic, I'd go with something that a) had flat rubber tracks to mitigate the issues mentioned above and something that could be built upon, like a flat carrier or an excavator stripped down to the swivel.
really? how does one judge energy usage at this event, by anyone? Or how they want to "Burn"?
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:01 am

Jeez you guys. He asked for input, I’m only trying to help.





But yeah, better listen to the old farts and disregard my discouraging words :roll: :wink:

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:06 am

What about something like this:
1C5F3012-A880-4D0C-9ED6-139A8D0AC6EB.jpeg
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Guard Dawg » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:01 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:06 am
What about something like this:

1C5F3012-A880-4D0C-9ED6-139A8D0AC6EB.jpeg
Awesome.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Guard Dawg » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:11 am

Now, my two cents.
Everything everyone else suggested sans the bullshit.

HAZMAT:Plan for a hydro line busting and puking out a couple of gallons of fluid on the sacred Playa which, will surly piss-off the Econazi's and centainly any Burn-outs unfortunate to get douched with 5606 (fluid) and depending how close, could sever an appendage or blind an eye. So, have a hazmat and first aid kit available. Better to have them and not need them, then to need and not have. (While operating a Case 550 CK, a dipper hose blew and before I could power down, it puked a 5x20 swath of fluid on the customer's lawn. (Mo work, mo money).

INSURANCE: Absolutely have parade or event insurance. Say an accident occurs resulting in great bodily injury or death. In fact, say someone alleges an injury, retains an attorney and file a civil action. You could be as innocent as a first-time freash out high school pimply faced Burner but it ain't going to matter. Your going to get the dreaded shake down and risk Big Dude Daddy going to the auction block.

PLANNING:Say Big Daddy Dude blows a head gasket, throws a rod or other MAJOR MALFUNCTION. How will you transport to and wench or hoist BDD on to the transport trailer? Remember "Radical self-reliance" only applies to the hoi-polloi. HEAT will always give the hoity toity priority. Me thinks Gifting is nice but money talks and bullshit walks. The well connected will move straight to the front of the HEAT line. This may or may not be true but plan that it is.

GROUND SUPPORT: How many team members, and what is the extent of their skills and willingness to help with arduous tasks in an hostile environment. Don't bring HDW. (Human deadwood).

MVD:find out if you can even bring the beast. Get approval in writing. Even written approval is not a guarantee you will be allow in. People power trips still reign in spite of the Kumbaya hooey. What one idiot may approve another moron may arbitrarily reject.

Brother, I could write reams of more stuff to do and not do.

A wannabe burner's opinion. Yup, never been to Burning Man, and to many that means I can't tie my shoes, wipe my ass, walk, think, breathe whatever.
Many act like going to Burning Bum is somehow the equivalent of summiting Everest. Well, I guess to many it very well be, consider the abundance of snowflakes inundatediing our fucked-up, safe zone, cry closet, mangina society.

Personally, I would reconsider and explore other MV options. Did you see my idea about full-scale version of the Titanic? Can you imagine what a party/orgy barge it would make? I know a qualified MV captain.

Man, all we...er, you need to do is start crowd funding and I am always available for free consultation, a $500.00 per hour value but I'll do it for only a measly ride. Now, I can't do this all day long so you must act now!

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Tears,

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:02 am

Here’s what happens with Mutant Vehicle licensing.

First you complete a very thorough and detailed mutant vehicle application, before the deadline runs out.
The DMV then has review sessions in which groups of roughly 20 people go over each and every one and come to a consensus as to whether the vehicle has been mutated sufficiently so as to meet the guidelines outlined on the Burning Man mutant vehicle page. IE, the base vehicle, whatever it is including equipment such as tractors and man lifts etc, is unrecognizable as its original form.
The owner is sent a letter either explaining why it was not invited or sent an official invitation letter. That letter is to be brought to the playa with the vehicle.
At the on-playa DMV inspection, the vehicle is looked at to ensure that it is what the application claimed it would be, doesn’t have any glaring hazards like poorly constructed janky staircases etc. then it’s issued a license sticker.
You then return when it’s dark and demonstrate that it has “radical illumination” and are issued a night-driving license sticker.
The MVs that get rejected are the golf cars with tin foil and some glow sticks taped on, the Mazda with the roof cut off and a penis spray painted on the door, the real no-effort stuff.
The DMV isn’t a big-brother judgement agency. It’s more of a “permission engine”. They love mutant vehicles and want you to bring them, and they volunteer tons of hours work and effort to make it possible for you to do so and satisfy the event’s BLM permit.
Even people in the DMV have to go through the same process with their own MVs, and they aren’t allowed to be part of their own review session.
There is such a thing as grandfathered-in historical MVs that wouldn’t meet today’s guidelines but they date back over 20 years and there’s only one I can think of that actually happens with, which has since been destroyed.
The Burning Man DMV is your friend, without their work you wouldn’t be allowed to bring an MV at all, by the real cops.

That’s how it works.
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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by That is Nice » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:34 am

AddamsonFlint wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:41 am
Ok, first off, sad but necessary disclaimer, in the internet-age of saying whatever you feel like because of the lack of consequences:

This post is for positive input and suggestions. If you wanna sip haterade
Haterade is a much underrated beverage. Take three average sized haters, crush and strain them, boil the squeezings, mix with equal parts tomato and onion juice and serve with twists of lime. Nothing more refreshing on a hot desert day.

Be sure to check your haters for kuru, first.

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by That is Nice » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:50 am

AddamsonFlint wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:41 am
I have a crawler/loader/backhoe endearingly named Big Daddy Crawler. Specifically, it's a 1976 JD 350-C, for any gearheads that care. I am thinking of turning it into a mutant vehicle next year.

DMV does allow tracked vehicles. My only concern is my grousers (the pads on the tracks), as they are slightly cleated. They aren't crazy like a dozer, and actually are specifically what one would normally want to have in a sandy environment.
I would have concerns. I'm not sure that they're valid concerns, but here they are:
But obviously it's not just a sandy environment, it's the playa;
The Playa isn't a sandy environment. It's a dusty environment formed each year as a seasonally flooded environment



dries out in the Summer heat. What is left behind is a lot of dust with a hard layer of gypsum underneath - and below that, playa mud. Nasty, thick sticky stuff. It never completely goes away. It just doesn't get noticed (usually) because it's underneath something hard and dry.

This is what I'm worried about: is your vehicle going to stop chopping up the surface? I know that the Playa floor can hold heavy vehicles, because water trucks get used out there, but water trucks don't run on treads. Are you going to crack the surface enough to break through, leaving you with a nightmare towing bill?

Even if you don't, breaking up the surface means more dust. That isn't going to make you any friends, and it's going to leave behind track marks that some volunteer work crew will have to fill in. Or rather, would, if BMV approved this, which I'm guessing they won't.

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Re: Input on bringing my dude Big Daddy Crawler (a tracked vehicle) next year

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:18 am

Water trucks aren’t even nearly the heaviest vehicles on the playa. They’re only about 48,000 loaded, and that’s if they’re three-axle and not two.
The only issue about getting a DMV license will be how well mutated it is. The tracks aren’t an issue about that.
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