Busted by the cops at the burn

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:11 pm

Grrr!

I love eli eli eli's haiku posts. Her neuron's got all that and a side of fries.

III · Post by **III** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:14 pm

err, eli eli eli, nipples, fishspanker - any of em are more entertaining in 17 syllables than ubu is in a whole thread. i think i'm going to miss them.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:39 pm

i didn't start the thread for entertainment or to whine iii and if you find it boring go start a thread of your own. i started the thread for conversation and information.

Precip is dead on, and I appreciate his commentary. to continue the boring discussion of legal issues, the dome in question was completely covered with only a slightly ajar flap through which the LEOs only viewed some semi-naked people jumping around. It was just as private as any tent. It was not until they illegally entered the dome that they saw someone pulling on a pipe, smoking salvia infact.
so they had no probable cause. they proceeded to search without consent.
they found marijuana on four people. the guy with the salvia was not cited.

If you read the thread correctly, I myself was not cited. Only my dome was routed through, and my guests were hassled. I am most concerned about the foreign nationals and their immigration status.

iii your blinking avatar is as annoying and idiotic as eli's witless poetry, so forgive me if i don't take your judgements too seriously.

if you do have something reasonable to say then please contribute to the thread. If not, if it's just too boring for you, then move on. If witless poetry or blinking crap on the web ever becomes a useful way to inform people or help unfairly searched and cited people stay in this country, then I will do my best to contact you.

III · Post by **III** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:05 pm

>they had no probable cause. they proceeded to search without consent. they found marijuana on four people.

i've noticed that if they actually find something, it's really hard to prove that they didn't have probable cause. they are not really in the habit of barging into completely private spaces where there is no drug use. i may, *once* have heard of an incident where someone somplained about them entering a space where there wasn't and hadn't been any illegal activity. all the rest is whining by people who were doing something illegal, but thought they were being too subtle for the leo's. maybe pot makes you stupid?

was the dome explicietly cordoned off from all visitors?
was the odor of sativa smoke perceptible from outside the structure?
was he smoking sativa in device which one might also associate with marijuana?

while you complain about "illegal entry", the only illegal behavior actually demonstrated so far was by your campmates.

Friendly Jen · Post by **Friendly Jen** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:25 pm

All I have to say is brownies, cookies, chocolate oh my! No smell, no taste, and about 30 minutes of getaway time. It's fairly easy not to get busted at BM unless you really aren't being careful....and of course never leave the door open, never do anything in plain sight, and never cary anything on your person

Fuck I'd be set if they didn't drug test at this job I got

but sober can be oh so much Fun!

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:31 pm

My only vice is voyeurism. Maybe I could be a LEO?

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:01 pm

that's cool iii. salvia is legal. sativa is not. he was smoking salvia; it's in the sage family.

trying to prove they illegally entered the dome would be a waste of time, especially as the folks who got cited only got popped for 250 each. no one would bother contesting a 250 ticket for anything. not worth a trip back to NV to meet a magistrate who is bound to more sympathetic to the LEOs.
trying to prove they had no right to search the other parties who merely had marijuana on their persons would also be a waste of time, as would whining or complaining, or looking for sympathy.

passing on information or researching federal land controlled substance laws and procedures as well as notifyiing future burners about the use of night vision goggles and the policiing of campsites is in my opinion not a waste of time.

Lesson learned: any smoking from any pipe whether the pipe contains sage or some controlled substance, leaves the parties vulnerable to search and harassment. and at a heavily patrolled and surveilled event such as the burn, you are a sitting duck. you will be surveilled.

And even fairly careful campsites such as mine will occassionally be harassed.

i do think night vision goggles in return and a copwatch program on the bman grid might not be a bad idea, although it might be too tedious. two can play the surveillance game. any gentle encouragment of the rangers to do more useful things such as enhance public safety and aid in rescue rather that route around looking for marijuana smokers would be a good thing in my opinion. ymmv.

Peace_Tolero · Post by **Peace_Tolero** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:19 pm

two can play the surveillance game.

That's what Ashcroft and Tenet recently found out.

Iron Chef · Post by **Iron Chef** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:23 pm

My Hubby and I were walking back to our camp at sunrise and we saw some guy rifleing though our neighbors theme camp. We had never seen him before and were very familiar with the people in that camp. We went up to him and asked how he was doing, what he was looking for and what his name was. He said a name we had never heard of, said he was looking for a pipe to smoke and some weed and then asked if we had any. We shook our heads and said, "no way, we have no idea what you are talking about." We assumed he was a cop, but can they just walk into your camp and look around when no one is awake and nothing is going on? Isn't THAT illegal? Strange...

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:56 pm

ubu wrote:...night vision goggles in return and a copwatch program on the bman grid might not be a bad idea, although it might be too tedious. Two can play the surveillance game...

For all the complaints about Ashcroft et. al., it'd be ironic if somebody actually organized and carried through such an effort. If they have influenced you to waste your vacation by spending all your time looking out for them, they've won.

And no matter how many NVGs and scrambled radios you have, they will still have their radar. Which really works. (If not for drugs, specificially.)

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:05 pm

> We assumed he was a cop,

Doubtful. Probably just a stoned fuckwit. We had a number of those rifling through our stuff at various times.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:53 pm

precipitate wrote:> We assumed he was a cop,

Doubtful. Probably just a stoned fuckwit. We had a number of those rifling through our stuff at various times.

fuckwits - oh yeah. and this may be the problem right here. some people just have this overgrown sense of entitlement. since when is it ok to rummage thru someone else's stuff for some bud? i mean, i understand jonesing, but we have to draw the line somewhere. and fuckwits attract cops.

i'm sensing a theme for next year...

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:07 pm

Iron Chef wrote:My Hubby and I were walking back to our camp at sunrise and we saw some guy rifleing though our neighbors theme camp. We had never seen him before and were very familiar with the people in that camp. We went up to him and asked how he was doing, what he was looking for and what his name was. He said a name we had never heard of, said he was looking for a pipe to smoke and some weed and then asked if we had any. We shook our heads and said, "no way, we have no idea what you are talking about." We assumed he was a cop, but can they just walk into your camp and look around when no one is awake and nothing is going on? Isn't THAT illegal? Strange...

As if I needed another reason but after reading this, I'm already sketching out a new "base camp" layout and shade structure design that will be a bit more secure...for keeping the fuckwits and LEO's out (although I don't do anything that would inspire a LEO to look my way anyway, at least that I can think of). If I caught someone digging through my camp at 5 am, he'll likely get a nice shot of military spec pepper spray, a nice 50,000 volt taser, or both. Anyway after some problems this year and learning lessons in the dust storm....a serious base camp upgrade for 04 is already being worked on.

Blackrock Lover · Post by **Blackrock Lover** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:54 am

Hmm, LEOs are not encouraged to issue cites by their superiors....

PC questions are interesting. But, without having the officer explain the PC it is pretty pointless to discuss because we don't know exactly what he/she saw...

Possession of a controlled substance is against federal law......anywhere in the United States, public land or not, including "medical" marijuana. Citations were issued for a violation of 43 CFR with a $250 fine. Luckily for the burners citations were not issued for 21 USC 844 which has a min $1000 fine.

Yes nightvision is in use. But not that useful due to ambient light.

RADAR.......not in use by LEOs.

PJ · Post by PJ » Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:25 am

Blackrock Lover wrote:RADAR.......not in use by LEOs.

It's in use by those looking for gate crashers, and should work well for that purpose. (An ordinary commercially-available pleasure/light fishing boat radar built by Raytheon I believe. Mounted atop a short tower near Center Camp if memory serves.) If you awakened early out at the airport and took a stroll out on the open playa and then walked back to your airplane campsite, a fast-moving SUV with a pair of tired up-all-night-looking Rangers would give you the "Is this your airplane?" routine. They had plenty of radio contact with actual LEOs if necessary.

I'd estimate that a radar installation like that ought to be able to spot a small corner reflector (or a beer can) at five miles, especially if the blip is moving. Because of the uniformity of the Playa surface I wouldn't be surprised if jackrabbits and coyotes out past the trash fence made enough of a primary contact to be detectable.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:40 am

That radar was located at a great location...Certain & Authority. They were certainly out to project their authority on would be gatecrashers. I talked to several people about the radar, the stories are that jackrabbits and coyotes are indeed tracked and a long ways down the playa too. People were easily covered, even up in the foothills off the playa. It's a very good unit, run by a US Navy veteran with massive radar experience....he knew how to tweak the unit for max effectiveness.

I didn't see the BRC unit in operation but having seen one in use on a tow barge on the Mississippi, I have a good idea what they are capable of. It's very detailed. So anyone trying that last minute dash across the playa to get in....you have NO CHANCE IN HELL.

I'm just waiting for someone to complain that the radar unit is a possible cancer threat....could you move it out of the city please?

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:49 pm

ubu wrote:my question is about the wording on the tickets, my lawyer was curious as well about the wording. it does not say, i plead guilty or i plead no contest, it only says i wish to terminate this matter by paying the above fine of $250.

Sounds like our public "servants" have been taking lessons from the cops in Mexico where, as Benicio del Toro's character says in the movie Traffic, "Law enforcement is an entrepreneurial profession."

Blackrock Lover · Post by **Blackrock Lover** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:53 am

I have to say I'm not sure about how the disposition would be reflected on the citation if paid (guilty or no contest). I would suggest contacting the Central Violations Bureau using the 1-800 number on the white sheet of the citation and asking them.

"Entrepreneurial profession" I don't think so. If money were the object you would be charged with 21 USC 844 which carries a minumum $1000 fine for first offense.

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:47 am

"Entrepreneurial profession" I don't think so. If money were the object you would be charged with 21 USC 844 which carries a minumum $1000 fine for first offense.

Well, remember that blackmail is only effective if the victim has the means and willingness to pay. When you quadruple the fine you probably greatly increase the number of people who would be willing to fight the charges, as well.

Unfortunately, I think that money has become as much the object in the law enforcement / justice system as it is everywhere else in our sick society.

For an example, check out Bloomberg's crackdown on "crime" in NYC, using laws no one even knew existed to bring in more money for the city:

The LA Times wrote:There’s Jesse Taveras, who sat on a milk crate outside the Bronx hair salon where he works, and was fined $105 for “unauthorized use of a milk crate.” Israeli tourist Yoav Kashdia got a $50 citation for taking up two seats on an empty subway train.

The ticketing blitz is part of a quality-of-life crackdown that has unfolded as the nation’s largest city looks for new sources of revenue.

Although New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg says the city faces an economic crisis and is simply stepping up its enforcement of existing statutes, he has been hammered with criticism that these citations are a form of harassment.

Under pressure to raise city revenue, the mayor has proposed hiring an additional 300 police officers next year to write up an increased number of traffic tickets. The goal, budget officials have said, is to generate an additional $70 million during the next fiscal year, which begins July 1.

So they're talking about hiring another 300 cops, not to improve traffic flow, not to increase the safety of drivers and pedestrians on the streets -- just to make more money. They don't even bother pretending that it's about safety or justice any more; the "officials" themselves admit that it's all about the money.

Then there's the RICO statute, which has allowed cops to seize the assets of many thousands of Americans, without due process, without even charging them with a crime, based purely upon the alleged suspicion that those assets were used in the commission of a crime. And guess who gets a big chunk of the proceeds when those assets are sold? That's right, the police department who seized them. Entrepreneurial, indeed!

Arnold Layne · Post by **Arnold Layne** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:05 pm

and if you think you're unloved then we know about that

Blackrock Lover · Post by **Blackrock Lover** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:40 am

Hmm, blackmail. That isn't the point, nor is the money. One of the defense attys has noted that one of the things he finds refreshing in the fed system is that money is not what is argued over, it is the guilt or innocense. I can't speak for NYC that appears to be a perversion of the system.

And the AUSAs that I work with don't mind if you fight the charge...that is your right.

keepthebeat · Post by **keepthebeat** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:18 am

yes marijauna is illegal in the US and Nevada we all know. However, why are our own Rangers enforcing unrealistic laws that support public drunkeness but do not allow for the appropriate use of medical marijauna? Let California law speak for Burning Man whenever possible. Please Rangers do not go out of your way to prosecute pot smokers.

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:30 am

keepthebeat wrote:Let California law speak for Burning Man whenever possible. Please Rangers do not go out of your way to prosecute pot smokers.

Wait a second.

You're suggesting that the Nevada county that Burning Man takes place in is to surrender its jurisdiction? Not to mention the fact that the Black Rock Desert is Federal land?

And on top of that, you want the cops to not perform their job?

BTW, Black Rock Rangers cannot enforce laws--as far as I know.

Ya might want to think about that for a minute...

Piper · Post by **Piper** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:58 pm

Zane5100 wrote:
keepthebeat wrote:Let California law speak for Burning Man whenever possible. Please Rangers do not go out of your way to prosecute pot smokers.
Wait a second.

You're suggesting that the Nevada county that Burning Man takes place in is to surrender its jurisdiction? Not to mention the fact that the Black Rock Desert is Federal land?

And on top of that, you want the cops to not perform their job?

BTW, Black Rock Rangers cannot enforce laws--as far as I know.

Ya might want to think about that for a minute...

Thanks, I was confused on the first post, you know, I would be happy to give full faith a credit to Californication laws, if they would do the same. I live in Reno, and since we can smoke in bars and restaurants etc., Nevada Law, then California should allow me, cuz I live in Nevada and am only be cool and participating in California, to smoke where I want, right|?

Or how about if we accept California Drivers License as an ID(now that it is not proof of Citizenship) California should accept my concealed carry permit, right? I understand that the great state of California is the only state to know what is right for every person on earth, but some of us believe in personal not governmental responsibility and self reliance rather than womb to tomb big brother.

If you do something against the law, expect to get bust and accept the penalty, and DO NOT whine, even Thoreau went to jail for his civil disobedience, I would also ask you to think, you do not want the LAW to do the job they swore to do, in this case, but would you accept them NOT doing their job when they choose?

oh yeah, I spent a lot of my shifts telling people to be careful because BLM was being very serious about dope and asking them to roll it or be in a tent. I want you to be able to mess your self up any way you want to, just let me make my choice and not pay for your stupidity or the results of your choices

Taniwha · Post by **Taniwha** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:54 pm

Piper wrote: Or how about if we accept California Drivers License as an ID(now that it is not proof of Citizenship)

it never was - I'm not a US citizen and I've legally carried a CA drivers license for the past 20 years.

Blackrock Lover · Post by **Blackrock Lover** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:07 am

keepthebeat wrote:unrealistic laws that support public drunkeness but do not allow for the appropriate use of medical marijauna?

I'm not sure why it's unrealistic or how it supports public drunkeness (which in my lowly opinion is becoming a terrible detriment to BM).

Appropriate use of medical marijuana? I have several personal friends that are MDs, they have yet to find an appropriate use for medical marijuana. You can bet if they do they wont be having their patients smoke it! That's just never good for your patients lungs.

BLM Rangers going out of their way to bust pot smokers. At BM you don't have to go out of your way. You would have to walk around blind folded not to see it. Rangers deal with what the see or smell, it is one of their jobs. It's really not that hard to be discrete (or I wouldn't think so).

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:45 am

Blackrock Lover wrote:
keepthebeat wrote:unrealistic laws that support public drunkeness but do not allow for the appropriate use of medical marijauna?
I'm not sure why it's unrealistic or how it supports public drunkeness (which in my lowly opinion is becoming a terrible detriment to BM).

Appropriate use of medical marijuana? I have several personal friends that are MDs, they have yet to find an appropriate use for medical marijuana. You can bet if they do they wont be having their patients smoke it! That's just never good for your patients lungs.

BLM Rangers going out of their way to bust pot smokers. At BM you don't have to go out of your way. You would have to walk around blind folded not to see it. Rangers deal with what the see or smell, it is one of their jobs. It's really not that hard to be discrete (or I wouldn't think so).

my dad was one of the world's leading ophthalmologist for over forty years and just about the sqaurest dude i've ever known - yet he regularly wrote perscription for marijuana for glaucoma.

i guess you never had a friend or family member die from cancer or aids. i've watched countless numbers of people die slow horrible deaths that were made somewhat bearable by the use of medical marijuana - it combats stress, nausea and depression to name just of few of it's many healing properties.

Jean · Post by **Jean** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:31 am

keepthebeat wrote:yes marijauna is illegal in the US and Nevada we all know. However, why are our own Rangers enforcing unrealistic laws that support public drunkeness but do not allow for the appropriate use of medical marijauna? Let California law speak for Burning Man whenever possible. Please Rangers do not go out of your way to prosecute pot smokers.

Thank you, Piper for answering this post rationally. I have to admit I almost blew a gasket when I read it and had to get up and walk away before my first ever eplaya post was a flaming diatribe on the Californication of Nevada. The drug laws may be more liberal in CA, but I think one of the reasons that BMan is now in Nevada might be that the "we know what's best for you and must protect you from yourselves" laws in CA are too restrictive for it. Just my humble opinion.

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:45 am

Jean wrote:The drug laws may be more liberal in CA, but I think one of the reasons that BMan is now in Nevada might be that the "we know what's best for you and must protect you from yourselves" laws in CA are too restrictive for it. Just my humble opinion.

Yep, I'm pretty sure that's true. For some reason, that's just beyond some of the more ardent CA burners.

Piper · Post by **Piper** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:43 am

Taniwha wrote:
Piper wrote: Or how about if we accept California Drivers License as an ID(now that it is not proof of Citizenship)
it never was - I'm not a US citizen and I've legally carried a CA drivers license for the past 20 years.

Then I AM stupiud, where I was from you had to present a birth certificate to get a licence and if you were a from another country, you had to use one fromn your homeland..

sorry about that assumption

Busted by the cops at the burn

Smoke what smoke?

Two can play that game

Cops roaming around camp at sunrise....

Re: Cops roaming around camp at sunrise....

Welcome to Nevada or you're not in California anymore

Re: Welcome to Nevada or you're not in California anymore