Comfortably camping

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
pappachuck
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Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:24 pm

I know there are the so called "turnkey" or "plug-and-play" camps that work as a hotel camp basically and does not contribute to the playa and also generate a lot of MOOP. Some of them even scam those that pay large amounts of money for services that were not offered.
There are plenty of posts on it.
But there might be a solution for camping comfortably at burning man without having to pay those expensive camps.
Why we do not create a non-profit org with the sole purpose of organizing a decent comfortable placement???
It certainly will be costly, but at least it would offer back its services and contribute to the playa with its infrastructure.

It is completely possible to camp with 24/7 A/C, open-bar, 4 meals a day, and lots of snacks. More people gathers together, cheaper it gets to build such infrastructure.

If you come in a small group, to do the same you would need a decent generator, motor home, and a towed trailer with lots of supplies. This is to simplify the list. With more people its possibly to do more.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by ryfi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:03 pm

The struggle to survive is the essence of the culture for some. That said, I’m pretty sure the attitude is experiment to see what can be done, then convince folks of the benefits. Otherwise it’s all just conjecture, eh?

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:23 pm

It does not make sense. The culture is so much more than imposing yourself to such harsh environment.

The belief that you can come and set a nice infrastructure and leave without leaving trace in my opinion is huge engineering achievement.
With infrastructure you can bring more arts, more structure, more support. So in order to do that you need to bring more people together, people that like comfort. The infrastructure needed to provide comfort is the same needed to provide more for the playa.

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Lonesomebri
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Lonesomebri » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:49 pm

I LOVE the dust. I LOVE that the harsh conditions drive some people away from attending. There is room for comfort and balance, but it's totally subjective to think some of us don't LOVE and thrive with the struggle. Those air conditioned rooms with shower and room service are down in Reno.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:55 pm

Welcome to ePlaya!

What is your camping experience? People do it all the time. I would require every BM virgin to do multiple camping trips before.

Burning Man is a wilderness campout. So say you got a camping permit for a wilderness area in a USA national park. What is your expectation of comfort?

Burning Man is exactly a wilderness camping experience with these differences: first you can't poop, pee, or dispose your washing water on the land. Second the leave no trace is strictly enforced to the square inch. Third, you can't drink from a stream.

What exactly is your definition and expectation of comfort at Burning Man? No one can comment on your question without that information.

Personally, my comfort is maintaining body temperature, having enough water and electrolytes, protecting myself from sun, having comfortable footwear, having a bike, having a warm and sleep inducing shelter and bedding, not overspending, and multi-use for space-consuming supplies stored at home. My luxury is washing, and I'm willing to work for it. Food, I loose my appetite, so I don't care about that. I do spend energy on the means to make personal connections.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:53 pm

Hotel camp example:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V53J3X ... sp=sharing
Image

It appears to be too organized to be a burners camp. It also is too isolated, the compound is all closed by RVs and there is a checkup area to get into.
Also, is possible to notice lots of support vehicles around. It certainly look like a turnkey camp.

Well, experiencing the desert heat, dust storms and everything related to the harsh environment is part of the experience and everybody that is coming is well aware of that. But staying 24/7 dusty for 10 days or pooping in disgusting chemical bathrooms is optional, alongside many other things.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by gaminwench » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:02 pm

The portos are serviced twice a day; they're not that bad.

There is no avoiding everything being dusty 24/7, unless you never step out your RV.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Sham » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:16 pm

gaminwench wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:02 pm
The portos are serviced twice a day; they're not that bad.
* except on Sunday morning following the Man burn. :shock:

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:52 pm

pappachuck wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:24 pm
It is completely possible to camp with 24/7 A/C, open-bar, 4 meals a day, and lots of snacks.
You might do some research on the cost of that with Outside Services. If you really believe your quote above, you have been consuming too many hallucinogens.

The founders, law enforcement, the BLM, VIPs, instamodels and billionaires all poop in disgusting chemical toilets on the playa. I can guarantee you Paris Hilton, Victoria Secret runway victims, Elon Musk, the founders of Google, Oracle and everyone we know poop in disgusting chemical toilets.

All the photos and videos of clean people are misleading. They were clean for a few minutes, maybe an hour or two. Most photographers put their equipment away when it gets dusty. Except this one: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/0 ... rning-man/

Have you been to the event? I think you are trolling. 4 meals a day is nonsensical.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:08 pm

Bro, dust gets everywhere and everybody knows it, nobody is naive to go to burning man and do not expect to get dust in curious places. BTW Poor boy that owns that camera, you need to completely seal your stuff if you do not want to damage it. There are engineering ratings for equipment designed for harsh environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code, and there are documentation on how to protect your equipment. You should look for IEC. There are also other organizations.

The point of renting and RV is to poop, shower, sleep well and prepping a decent meal. 4 meals a day is completely normal, I consider a sandwich as having 1 meal.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by gaminwench » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:33 pm

Most people find they eat a great deal less out there. Also, when one is in the middle of the most amazing, mind-blowing place on the planet, who wants to spend time cooking elaborate meals?

See, when we took an RV or trailer, we *avoided* pooping in the loo; pumpouts are notoriously difficult to flag down, so you're stuck living on top of your poo for 10 days.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Sham » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:49 pm

While preparing a comfy, homey nest on the playa, you need to keep in mind that your time in Black Rock City will be spent exploring the 7 square miles of eye-popping art installations, incredible camps and watching amazing performances. Your lunch may consist of a fruit cup and an energy bar in your back pack. You will need to use a toilet while 4 miles from the comfort of your RV. It may be very hot and oppressively dusty during the day, but the urge to run back to the safety of your RV will not even be a thought in your head. If you are joining in and understanding this event, you'll be getting back to your home base at 2AM and will not be needing AC, but rather some heat. After 4 hours of sleep, you'll be heading out again to watch the sun rise over the mountains---with the Burning Man structure in the foreground.

Last year, we had one person in our group who would go scrambling to the safety of his RV at the hint of a dust storm. While everyone else was embracing and celebrating, one guy was hunkered down and cowering until the weather cleared. His AC was humming away while missing the fun.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Canoe » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:00 am

pappachuck wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:08 pm
... 4 meals a day is completely normal, I consider a sandwich as having 1 meal.
Nope. Not on the playa.
One of the things that happens in the heat is that one's appetite declines.
You have to be aware of that, along with dehydration, and take some electrolyte each day (due to lowered food intake) so you don't end up with playa-condition. Google eplaya for that.

You can make your camping-trip part of going to BRC easy or hard. Simple or complex. What do you want to spend your burn doing...
You can even go minimalist.
viewtopic.php?t=63477&p=915408#p915408
And some have done it with less.

I'd suggest you go first, after researching how to do it to your comfort level, and see what the playa is like. It's the only way you'll really understand. And you're going to have to do a lot more research given all of the basics you've missed. Start with a recent Survival Guide.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Lonesomebri » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:03 am

You need to contact the BMorg and find out the names of the dirty dozen on double secret probation, those camps will have what you are looking for. It seems like you are looking for quite a bit. All those amenities you can bring yourself. After all, 4 meals a day isn't much to pull off. And maybe also bring some popsickles to hand out for the community.

Your options include-

You can bring whatever comfort you imagine. Done and done. Do-ocracy.

You can band together with others holding a shared vision, to pool resources. Build that camp.

You can look at big camps listed from past years, and contact them with your list of expectations. See if they have room to charge you.

Good luck on your Burn.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:40 am

You can have all that on the playa.
I do.
Because I bring my own.

You’re sort of right about one thing, Burning Man isn’t necessarily about suffering... but it is about covering your own ass. It isn’t supposed to be too easy. If it were, it would ruin it like you’re trying to do.
Plug & play is plug & play, whether it’s set up as a non-profit or not.
That’s what you’re trying to do and it’s the worst thing to happen to Burning Man since the Dancetronauts

Hopefully, you won’t get a ticket when the sale starts.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:37 am

Well, to make you feel better I do not plan to come on 2019. It is not enough time to actually plan everything.
I will get the early ticket sale.
Yes, I will bring my own stuff.
Making a camp with a nice infrastructure, I do not see how bad that would be. I will try my best efforts to make that happen, unless I find someone that already makes that happen.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Sham » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:56 am

pappachuck wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:37 am
Well, to make you feel better I do not plan to come on 2019. It is not enough time to actually plan everything.
Six months is plenty of time to plan a trip to Burning Man. You could make it an awesome adventure with everything you need in two suit cases. A 4 person tent, sleeping bag, all your clothes and supplies etc. Buy your food once you get your rental car. This easy plan will get you to the desert so you can learn about it before making wild, freshman mistakes. By year two, you'll be an even bigger expert than you are now. 8)

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:28 am

I super agree. But I do not want to rush everything and conflict with my college. I am first actively looking for camps so I can gather experience.

My desire in finding people to build a nice infrastructure is to accommodate those that do not live in the US or that do not have the benefit of owning or having a big enough group to rent equipment. Coming to burning man as international is 1000 x harder.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Lightspeed » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:57 am

Coming to burning man as international is 1000 x harder
No, it is not. I flew in from Hawaii, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. I did it myself. I saved money, bought gear, and built a killer camp. Monkey hut, shade. Not only did I survive, but I THRIVED AND FUCKING INDULGED. I had electricity and air conditioning (yeah, kind of jerky but I paid for it and brought it myself). I had beer, vodka, rum, juice. Hot dogs, burritos, bacon. Chocolates, pistachios, macadamia nuts.

I'm living, breathing proof that you CAN do it yourself. To claim otherwise is bullshit and a cop-out.

Do it yourself. Build a camp. Invest in your Burn. The next year, do it again but better and more efficiently. Bring friends to help and contribute to your infrastructure. Build, grow, Burn!
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Sham » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:32 am

pappachuck wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:28 am
I do not want to rush everything and conflict with my college.
Wait what? A college student looking to do a $50,000 one week adventure in the desert? Far be it for anyone to count your finances, but as a student, you may be partying your future away. More importantly, you're boxing yourself into 3 days of set-up and 2 days breaking down---for a 7 day event. You'll also be spending time waiting for the truck to come and pump your gray and black water.

As a matter of sport, I travel 3000 miles by plane and try to keep my total costs within the $2000 range. This includes gifting at least 3 meals to my 50 person camp.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:25 am

To the OP:

Meet your regional in person, face to face. You can search for burning man regional then find the one closest. They will have a lot of advice because many have been going for years. They often have good parties year around :D

Start making your "packing list." You can put an RV on it. Then in your free time figure out where to get each item on the list and the cost. For instance, most people do their food shopping and often pick up water in Reno or Fernley. Once you have the big list, you can drop things from it.

Subscribe to "The Jackrabbit Speaks"

Look up the list of "Outside Services" providers. That's how the comfortable camps get "comfortable."

Look up how to manage fuel on the playa.

The RV threads on ePlaya are the best information on the topic there is.

Spend your Summers off school camping. Hey, take your proposed Burning Man setup to test it!
Last edited by some seeing eye on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Canoe » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:19 am

Sham wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:32 am
pappachuck wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:28 am
I do not want to rush everything and conflict with my college.
... More importantly, you're boxing yourself into 3 days of set-up and 2 days breaking down---for a 7 day event. You'll also be spending time waiting for the truck to come and pump your gray and black water. ...
THIS!

What do you want to spend your Burn time doing...
There's the whole of BRC to explore.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:06 pm

Wait what? A college student looking to do a $50,000 one week adventure in the desert?
My excel sheet tells me another story. It would be a total of $12,000 max and the idea is to divide between 5 to 6 people. It would prove my M.V.P .

Sham, I appreciate your worry on my finances but it won't make a sweat. (Wish I knew how to quote people)
More importantly, you're boxing yourself into 3 days of set-up and 2 days breaking down---for a 7 day event. You'll also be spending time waiting for the truck to come and pump your gray and black water.
Well, It is more likely to take about 8 hours setup, and 12 hours breaking down (if I work alone). It is fast if you bring the right tools and actually draw and plan your layout ahead and have a organized and concise plan of assembly and disassembly.
Look up the list of "Outside Services" providers. That's how the comfortable camps get "comfortable."
"Outside Service" providers when are not in the list becomes a big challenge. Lets say If I wanted things delivered from certain providers that I searched and have really good quotes and specialized materials for what I am planning. I would have to register them in advance what means negotiate and possibly contract the service 200 to 180 days prior in advance. It requires a lot of coordination and planning.

The delivery rules does not make this planning any easier, and there are also federal laws regarding the use of the land and other things that need to be taken into consideration. It all summed gets so complicated that explains why planning more than 1 year in advance to pull this idea of comfortably camping.

I really wanna get involved and my idea is to prove a point that it is possible to make it happen at a rate per participant of $200-300 day not including tickets, after you achieve a certain minimum amount of people. What I will calculate in a spreadsheet and generate the graphs.
Look up how to manage fuel on the playa.
There is Fuel Delivery in the playa, and I can stock up to 110 gallons ( what is the limit that anybody can legally carry anyway). However, the generator has an internal stock of fuel. Plus the 110 gallons should be able to run mostly of the even uninterrupted.
Spend your Summers off school camping. Hey, take your proposed Burning Man setup to test it!
I never have summer off, Burning Man actually will be my first vacation in years. My proposed setup is based of on my experience and the experience in the military and in the experience of many engineers with a huge background in the construction, and mining industries under much harsh conditions than the Burning Man.

Honestly, for me it is a challenge and opportunity to gather experience in engineering while having fun. I have a research project (going to be published on ASME journal) that fits perfectly on the scenario of Burning Man and I rather do it there than actually on a very boring data gathering week in the desert.

Who knows I create the ultimate Burning Man camping manual, all documented and redacted LOL
(btw, a good a idea for the old burners )

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by what time » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:44 am

everyone has his own comfort, everyone has his own requests, but we know why we are going to inhale dust, bring something of our own, stand in the bar and get inspired for a year, but there are people who don’t understand it, but you can't blame them for this, enlightenment for each person goes in different ways, I am sure that each person will come, especially on a burning man, love a friend and friend and help people know themselves and suddenly they turn from home rv people into dusty berenrs
Nothing remains, everything changes, everything is burned, nothing remains

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by goodleaf » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:58 am

I was reflecting on comfort vs preparation for my virgin experience (rambling incoming):

I went for the first time last year and had a very “comfortable” set up in open camping. We didn’t have the budget for anything expensive, so RVs were out, and I felt like they were too insular. We ended up building a yurt (that was decked out) where we slept, a carport where we hung out and ate, a shower setup that we never used, a solar panel and a camping toilet.

Definitely a lot of stuff for two people and not how we usually camp, we’re usually tent or car campers, not “fill a box truck with your living room” campers.

I had gotten a lot of advice pre-BM to be prepared to take care of your needs in a harsh environment but also, as many people have noted here, not to bring too much for set up so that you can be out enjoying the playa and people.

In the end, we really appreciated having most of the comforts that we brought. I’ll pare back a bit for this year, but otherwise, having nice, clean places to sleep and poop was so relaxing that it let me experience so much more of the burn the rest of the time because my camp was so recharging.

We were probably at camp between 8-12 hours a day and away from camp the rest of the time. This year, I’d like to do the same, it was a good balance and also spend a whole day or more away from camp, just roaming.

Plus a lot of our burn also happened right at our camp, and I wasn’t expecting that at all. This was in part because it was comfortable and social - people hung out with us cos we had street-facing shade, neighbors ate with us and slept in our yurt when we weren’t at camp.

We got a rep in our neighborhood for being the camp that was prepared so we had a steady stream of folks who came by looking for help - we gave one guy our extra lag screws cos he accidentally brought lag bolts and he came by on Sat before he left and gave us a huuuge jar of weed. We ended up hanging out with my partner’s friend who was in DPW and worked on the Center Cafe and getting the jar to the DPW folks who smoked it in 0.5 seconds flat. Or UK couple asking where are the official BMORG showers (lol I felt so bad for them and sent them on with a box of massive wet wipes).

Things also went wrong with our setup and that too fostered connections with our neighbors - our battery running down while we weren’t at camp, duct taping the car port joints when the wind picked up, one of our neighbor being mad at our location when we got in because we blocked his RV and then making up with him over Jameson’s, etc.

We got in on Sunday and left on the following Tuesday. We made so many good friends, many of whom were our neighbors, I feel so lucky. And as we drove out, we were commenting that we could have easily lived in the desert for a month longer - not because it wasn’t hard, but because it was hard but we made it work anyway.

It was so great to leave the burn energized and reflective and the comfort of our set up, along with the fact we built it ourselves, was a big part of that.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by AntiM » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:43 am

MyLarry always made a wonderful comfy camp for us. We would share and help out when and where we could. My camp has never had dues.

There is a huge difference between making a comfortable camp for yourselves, and buying/selling a comfortable camp experience from/to others. Those who cannot see why one supports the principles and the other does not, should just fuck off and stay away.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:24 pm

MyLarry always made a wonderful comfy camp for us. We would share and help out when and where we could. My camp has never had dues.

There is a huge difference between making a comfortable camp for yourselves, and buying/selling a comfortable camp experience from/to others.
That is to whole point, I wanna use my engineering knowledge to put together a nice setup myself, and as mentioned before having a comfy camp is so energizing and is great way of attracting people to your camp.

The biggest part is human interaction and providing a nice structure is a great gift to others.
I also believe that everybody contributes in a certain way inside the camp. Someone might be great at cooking, others play music, some might be great at fixing things ... So why not use this in an organized and productive way to make a comfy camp? Offcourse there is a cost, I believe the whole point is to do it from heart, with no profit, and without branding.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by Papa Bear » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:01 pm

pappachuck wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:24 pm
I also believe that everybody contributes in a certain way inside the camp. Someone might be great at cooking, others play music, some might be great at fixing things ... So why not use this in an organized and productive way to make a comfy camp? Offcourse there is a cost, I believe the whole point is to do it from heart, with no profit, and without branding.
Pappachuck, there's nothing wrong with a group of people working together to build themselves a comfy camp. Lots of people do. That can include nicer than average accommodations, wonderful food, all those sorts of things. Nice comfy camps aren't limited to plug-n-plays.

The problem arises when some of those people aren't really involved in actively planning and building the camp, and escalates further if that means their biggest contribution to the camp is money. What you've described sounds a lot like the latter. It doesn't really matter that you don't plan on making a profit - that's nice, but not the biggest issue.

While it might seem like an awesome gift to you, helping out people from far away, what actually happens is that those people you think you are helping get *less* out of the experience than they would if they had to figure it all out on their own, or at least had to put in some sweat equity with the camp beforehand. It also weakens the core ethic of the city, because people who don't contribute to building their own camp and figuring out their own meals tend to also be a lot less likely to contribute to the city in meaningful ways. We all wind up poorer for it.

That's not a theoretical statement. Pretty much everyone here has seen that same dynamic play out over and over - whether as the result of a plug-n-play, or just as the result of a well meaning person doing too much to help "take" a friend to their first Burning Man. It usually ends badly.

Also, if I understand correctly, you haven't actually been to Burning Man yet, so a lot of what you are planning is based in theory, not actual practice. Sure, you know about military gear and other approaches to desert camping, and may have even done some yourself. You may be great at it. But those experiences are not Burning Man. It's not just the environment that makes it different, it's the culture, and right now you don't understand the culture as well as you think you do. Nobody really does until they've done it.

I really urge you to just worry about bringing yourself the first year, and finding a way to participate and contribute that's entirely about you and your skills. It sounds like you have plenty. That'll give you a much better understanding of what the event actually is and is not, what the challenges really are, and why the vets here are giving you the kind of advice they are. It'll also make it less stressful and position you well for creating an awesome camp the following year.

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Re: Comfortably camping

Post by BBadger » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:53 pm

Sham wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:32 am
pappachuck wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:28 am
I do not want to rush everything and conflict with my college.
Wait what? A college student looking to do a $50,000 one week adventure in the desert? Far be it for anyone to count your finances, but as a student, you may be partying your future away.
That's just like one semester worth of tuition. He'll be in perpetual, undischargeable debt anyway, so he might as well blow the student loan on the trip to BM.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

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pappachuck
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:15 pm
Burning Since: I'm not sure

Re: Comfortably camping

Post by pappachuck » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:22 pm

I believe the whole argument is about this point:
The problem arises when some of those people aren't really involved in actively planning and building the camp, and escalates further if that means their biggest contribution to the camp is money. What you've described sounds a lot like the latter. It doesn't really matter that you don't plan on making a profit - that's nice, but not the biggest issue.

While it might seem like an awesome gift to you, helping out people from far away, what actually happens is that those people you think you are helping get *less* out of the experience than they would if they had to figure it all out on their own, or at least had to put in some sweat equity with the camp beforehand. It also weakens the core ethic of the city, because people who don't contribute to building their own camp and figuring out their own meals tend to also be a lot less likely to contribute to the city in meaningful ways. We all wind up poorer for it.
We have to understand that there are different types of people with different skills, backgrounds, and experience. We are all unique and gifted with life. So why not be inclusive and understand that some people might even be a disaster at camping and really good at many other things?? Their lack of self-reliance in some aspects might be a danger for others, and this goes for more than 1% of BRC population.

My idea is sustained by some BM principles:
  • Radical Inclusion - we should include people and helping them to come is actually that;
  • Radical Self-reliance - everyone has a different way to contribute within their inner resources providing a safe and accessible way to go to the festival does not mean it is disrupting their self-reliance process;
  • Radical Self-expression - we just by being alive is a gift (even annoying people kkkk) so if you are coming you will be self-expressing yourself either way;
  • Communal Effort - in order to a camp work in a challenging place such as Black Rock desert there has to be collaboration from money to rent equipment until buying the list of equipment and helping with the art;
  • Immediacy - everybody will overcome a barrier of their own just by getting there, what might be small for you might be huge for someone else.
Also from BMORG:
https://burningman.org/event/preparatio ... tionships/
With any organized group, people tend to fall into their natural roles. If you have a large group, chances are you will have somebody who becomes Mama, Chief Construction Foreman, Organizer of Outings or Head Chef, to name a few. It’s good, though, to make sure everybody in your group has similar goals, and that they will pull their weight equally.

Just because some entity is organizing the infra-structure and the group share the overall cost, does not mean they will not contribute.
Honestly, I don’t wanna go because it’s cool. I don’t even think of it as cool. It is hot and unconfortable harsh conditions. It's just about the unique sublime moments you have that you know will never happen anywhere else and will never happen again. This really motivates me
"amazing" level of freedom at Burning Man is a major draw for participants, who adopt playa names, wear costumes and take on roles they might never consider in the outside world.
People know what they are getting into and will participate in their way. I do not want to create a Hotel. I simply wish I could have a group or entity capable of offering a nice infra structure to setup a nice camp open to everybody with almost no rules and 100% transparent in the costs and the plan.

The idea is especially to prevent this from happening:
https://www.ems1.com/mass-gathering/art ... rning-Man/
In 2013
This year, they treated 3,031 people—an average of 433 a day—for problems such as dehydration, burns, eye and urinary tract infections, broken bones and gashes, as well as mishaps more specific to the festival: a twisted ankle from jousting, facial burns from fire blowing.
Getting hurt at Black Rock desert can be really bad, and following the data from the RAMPART Urgent care we know that unfortunately thousands get hurt. It can happen, dehydration, your body giving up can easily happen. You can fall from your bike, from a Vehicle, or simply hurt yourself at a bad placed tent. So why not help people the best we can to setup a nice camp and prevent this.

https://burningman.org/culture/history/ ... epartment/

Even though I disagree that creating a non-profit (there are legal advantages) for organizing a nice camp infra structure is bad. I will be coming for real this or next year and will have a better understanding of what the event actually is and is not, what the challenges really are.

I just wanted to state that we could work better together to reduce the number of hurt people during the Festival.

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