cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
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LowePro
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by LowePro » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:12 pm

Beary: The 12V car-port outlet should work fine with your bucket cooler. Test it at home just to make sure.
But as long as your fan and pump are 12V electronics, they should work with any 12V power supply. Make sure you splice the positive connections from Fan and PUmp together and connect with the Positive end of the 12V Car-port plug (and repeat for the negative wires). Do NOT try to plug your fan/pump into the USB or any other outlets on your battery bank. That could fry the fan and pump.

Sporky: The 5V power bank will not work, at least not very well. The fan and pump are 12V devices. They need a 12V power supply to work well. They might turn on with a 5V battery, but will not run a full speed and will not last very long.

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bearpie
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by bearpie » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:32 pm

Luigi & LowePro, thank you!!! Reading your replies made me feel better about trying it. I've ordered the adapter cable and will test this weekend and share the news.

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Sporkster
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Sporkster » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:00 pm

Thanks, all.

I have all of my parts and will build/report this weekend.

Supplies:
  • 5 gal bucket/lid
  • Duracool pad
  • Power:
    Jackery 160 and 50W Solar Panel
  • Power Cable from battery:
    12v connector supplied w/Jackery that has a female cigarette adapter
  • Wiring to bucket:
    12 Feet 12V/24V Car Cigarette Lighter Socket Splitter Extension Cord (One split for fan, one for pump)
  • Fan:
    Delta AFB1212SHE-CF00 120 x 120 x 38mm Cooling Fan, 190.48 CFM, 1.6A (approx 19.2W , I think)
  • Pump:
    80 GPH (300L/H, 4W) Submersible Water Pump
I'll be cutting the splitter adapter ends off and wiring the fan and pump in with wire nuts.

This is well out of my comfort zone, so I may be overthinking this, but I think I've got this in hand!
Wish me luck

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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:45 am

BurnerBunny wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:21 am
If anyone is interested I'm trying this pump bucket cooler out this year. I wanted something simple that didn't need any type of power. No idea how well it works yet, but I like the idea of putting a gallon or two in there then pumping and having 20-40 mins of mist on demand.
Looks like it would be great for an outdoor area.

For indoors, it's like the old-school hand spray bottle. When it's hot and dry inside, give the air a mist. It will cool down. Once the indoor air is not longer dry, then humidty will not allow evaporative cooling. So then you have to open doors/windows and let the hot humid air out, replaced with hot dry air, then you can spray/mist again.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

willyd
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by willyd » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:29 am

Looking for some input on fan types for making a big swamp cooler to cool a H12 yurt.

There are three types of fans I'm considering right now, but I'm also open to other suggestions if you have them:

1) "blower-style" fan designed for applications such as ventilating an engine room on a boat or pushing air through ducts.


2) Automotive radiator fans designed to push or pull air through a radiator


3) Consumer personal cooling type fans designed for cooling humans directly.


They are all generally in the acceptable price range. The big question is how to predict the flow they will generate in this setup - how much can I compare the cfm ratings? The second is which one will be the quietest. Power consumption is third, since we have adequate power but I'd like to be efficient where possible.

The auto radiator fans are cheap, powerful and easy to mount but they are loud and I'm not sure if they are well suited to this application. The consumer type fan is on the quiet side, but I'm not sure it will deliver the rated flow in this setup going through the cooler vs being freestanding. The blower fans seem designed for this, will be easy to mount and are supposed to be quiet, but their rated cfm is lower for a given diameter and I haven't actually ever used one of them.

I had good luck with the Endless Breeze on a "boxcooler" but those cost over $100 and require more work to mount properly.

Thanks for the assistance! There are a lot of folks at my camp who will be enjoying the cool comfort if I pull this off.

FIGJAM and LowePro I'm hoping you'll have something to contribute.

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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:55 am

willyd wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:29 am
Looking for some input on fan types for making a big swamp cooler to cool a H12 yurt.
There are three types of fans I'm considering right now, but I'm also open to other suggestions if you have them:
1) "blower-style" fan designed for applications such as ventilating an engine room on a boat or pushing air through ducts.
2) Automotive radiator fans designed to push or pull air through a radiator
3) Consumer personal cooling type fans designed for cooling humans directly.

...The big question is how to predict the flow they will generate in this setup - how much can I compare the cfm ratings? The second is which one will be the quietest. ...
Those embedded links don't show for me. But I could direct link them.

#1
No. Those are for maintaining airflow in a long duct that is already pressurized and moving air.
#2
Possibly.
#3
"Boundless Breeze"?
wow
Looking at the blades and the contruction, that looks like the Endless Breeze in a round package. For $39, I'd suggest you grab one quick and check it out.

For other than the fans specified/approved, you need to look first at the Static Pressure.
Search back through the pages here, or try searching eplaya with google.
You can see the Static Pressure spec for those fans.
The original is the AFB1212SHE-CF00, and there's a big sister with more CFM (more pressure?).

As to your original purpose, do you need something that will work, or are you willing to gamble. If you're not willing to gamble, then figure out the volume of your yurt and how many Box Coolers you need, and it's good bet that Boundless Breeze is the Endless Breeze that will drive them to a known standard. And you'll have redundancy with two or more Box Coolers.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:55 pm

hmmm
image didn't post
try again
Boundless Breeze.jpg
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:17 pm

The problem with radiator fans is they're power hogs.

I think when I was considering them, they range from 13 to 27 AMPS!!!

Ok in a running vehicle, but to power hungry otherwise.

The boundless breeze may be your unicorn. :D
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bearpie
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by bearpie » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:26 pm

[quote=bearpie post_id=1187510 time=1564007542 user_id=46673]
Luigi & LowePro, thank you!!! Reading your replies made me feel better about trying it. I've ordered the adapter cable and will test this weekend and share the news.
[/quote]

Reporting back on my test with the Ecoflow 370 using the Amazon car port plug. Success! It powered the fan and pump and did not seem to be drawing so much power that it would sap the EF battery within minutes. I almost wonder if it's sending too much juice because that fan was seriously spinning. I then promptly knocked the fan off the table and broke it so I have to order one to do a longer term test to know if this is a good solution for afternoon naps. But, I think I may have a way around the deep cycle battery, which is a big help for me. Thanks again!

willyd
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by willyd » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:18 pm

FIGJAM wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:17 pm

The boundless breeze may be your unicorn. :D
Thanks folks! I'll try the BB and report back!

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mournlight
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by mournlight » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:18 pm

Looks like the other fan is out of stock. I had good luck with so wanted to bring that one to your attention. Quiet, moves a LOT of air.
~Having fun preparing for a creative world~

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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:43 am

mournlight wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:18 pm
Looks like the other fan is out of stock. I had good luck with www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054S92FW/re ... UTF8&psc=1 so wanted to bring that one to your attention. Quiet, moves a LOT of air.
What "other fan" is out of stock?

The product link you posted shows:
  • Photos of the Delta AFB1212SHE-CF00 that figjam has been recommending since Page 1. Good CFM and Static Pressure, with 1.05 A (max 1.6 A) listed.
  • BUT it specifies the model for sale as "EFAN-FFB1212EHE", and no version number.
    The EHE-F00 has very similar Static Pressure and CFM as the SHE-CF00, but its 3.0 A uses ~double the current of the SHE-CF00, so it will be running your battery down a lot more.
The version matters:
  • AFB1212SHE-R00 uses the same current as the AFB1212SHE-CF00, but provides ~20% less CFM and Static Pressure.
  • So sources that sell a SHE model but won't publish/tell the version of CF00 vs R00 vs ___, so you can't look up the actual CFM, Static Pressure and current of what they're selling, probably isn't a good place to buy from.
Note: the Mouser info sheet lumps their SHE R00 and F00 together has having the same specs as the R00, so you really have to go after the individual spec sheets, not rely upon others' combined data.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Father_Burn
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Father_Burn » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:38 pm

Hey,

You all are working way too hard on this. File Servers use these fans. Specifically HP Tower and High performance rack mount servers use them. For example a HP servers uses the Delta TFC1212DE fan. That’s a 220CFM, 35.8mmH2O 12V fan. The local (real) computer people gave me 4 of them out of an old HP DL580G4. Free is my favorite price! Interestingly enough they had some Dell servers around which all used the AFC1212DE fan which is only a 120CFM fan. Yet another reason why dell sucks!

Pro trip if you do Arduino. I wanted mine to be completely automatic, so I used an Arduino to control the silly thing. The cool part (pun intended) is that it monitors the temp and humidity in my truck topper and outside. When it gets warmer than I set it for, it pre runs the pump (controlled by half of a dual relay module) to wet the pads. Then turns on the fan which is controlled by the other side of the relay module, and it can control its speed with the PWM line, so it is automatically variable speed. Also, if the humidity gets too high when it’s not cooling, and if it’s not hot outside, it will run the fan at low speed to keep it from getting stuffy.
I live in the desert, and it works great in testing here… We will see in a few weeks!
You couldn't handle me, even if I came with instructions.

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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:56 pm

Father_Burn wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:38 pm
...
You all are working way too hard on this. ... Delta TFC1212DE fan. That’s a 220CFM, 35.8mmH2O 12V fan. ...
But it uses 3.9 A. Near four times what the one that's speced for the bucket-cooler.
Many fans have the CFM, or the Static Pressure, or the lower power use. Two out of three isn't bad.

But most people are running their bucket cooler off a deep-cycle battery, and some a small PV. Way too much power needed/used.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Father_Burn
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Father_Burn » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:32 pm

That's a great point.

I have two 12V batteries, so it's less of a concern for me. The nice thing is once things are cooled down, the arduino slows the fan down. It does speed up and slow down which is a little annoying, but I can program that out of it when/if I ever care to. If things go well, after the burn I would share the schematic (which is simple) and the code after I've tweaked it out there, should people want to automate theirs.
You couldn't handle me, even if I came with instructions.

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Token
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Token » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:43 pm

Canoe wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:56 pm
Father_Burn wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:38 pm
...
You all are working way too hard on this. ... Delta TFC1212DE fan. That’s a 220CFM, 35.8mmH2O 12V fan. ...
But it uses 3.9 A. Near four times what the one that's speced for the bucket-cooler.
Many fans have the CFM, or the Static Pressure, or the lower power use. Two out of three isn't bad.

But most people are running their bucket cooler off a deep-cycle battery, and some a small PV. Way too much power needed/used.
It’s all the same stuff. You can’t create energy just convert it. Don’t get sucked into reading the specs too much.

Odds are a different engineer certified the revisions for UL and one listed locked rotor current and the other running current.

It’s the same fan with different RPM settings, so likely a different motor winding . The molded plastic is the same.

Match the RPM, I think it was ~ 4K, and you’re good.

Noisy suckers those deltas. I’ve moved on from them and use Noctua fans. Bigger, lower RPM/Noise, 6-year warranty, IP67 sealed.

lavamatrix
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by lavamatrix » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:11 pm

Decided this year to upgrade from my bucket cooler that I have had the last few years since my GF is coming for the first time and we got a shiftpod that could actually hold cool air that my old nylon tent couldn't. I've read through the thread and feel like I have a good handle on the build but unsure of the best way to either vent cool air in to my shiftpod from the unicooler or suck hot air in to the unicooler.

I know the original design had one large opening, about 12 x 16 but my shiftpod only has an opening for a 12" duct. So if I leave the unicooler inside my shiftpod as originally designed (Option 1) the largest opening into the unicooler would be a single 12" hole. Would that be a large enough surface area to cool the air?

If not I could put the unicooler outside my shiftpod and then vent cool air into my shiftpod via that 12" duct which is basically the exact diameter of the endless breeze fan. However how best to do that? Put the fan directly on the unicooler and connect the duct to the fan that then goes into my shiftpod (Option 2)? Or should I connect the duct to the unicooler and then put the fan inside the shiftpod connected to the duct (Option 3)? Below are the three options I am debating and could use some advice.
Unicooler Options.jpg
Thanks!
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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:47 pm

lavamatrix wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:11 pm
... Below are the three options I am debating and could use some advice.
  • I like having the fan robustly sealed to the uni-cooler "permanently" (as in, you're not changing or messing with that on the playa). Far less chance of failure.
  • Box inside, I don't like having a run of hot-air duct inside, as it radiates heat. But that duct can be insulated to reduce that heat source. And that duct run can be very very short - just enough to go through the wall to the box.
  • Box outside, I don't like having any run of cooled-air duct outside in the hot air/sun. As above.
  • I like having the box inside:
    - easy to refill with water or fix it if there's a strong blow outside
    - there's a tiny benefit in keeping the water cooler (not outside in the hot air/sun) as already chilled water will have full temperature drop a tiny bit faster (some people like keeping a few beer in that cool water), and inside the water may have retained more of its chill
  • 12x16" is 192 sq.in.. 12" diameter is ~113 sq.in..If that is the pad's explosure to airflow, then for a given fan CFM the speed of air through the pad will be faster, for less dwell time, and for a pad area that is 42% less than the 12x16". There will be a performance hit.
    Check figjam's air volume recomendations for the varous sizes of coolers compared to your Shiftpod volume.

    And look at the next points as other options.
  • If the unicooler will be outside, you can actually make a box-cooler.
  • Or inside or outside, tricky to do right, you can have a single air intake to the box but have a U run of wetted pad inside, for effectively a box-cooler inside a uni-cooler. The tricky part is getting a seal between the top of the U and the lid of the box, and to the sides of the box inside, as those have to be sealed against the draw of the fan. (just to confuse things)
  • Easier to build and have a seal, would be to have:
    - the box inside,
    - the 12" duct coming in from outside (short, insulated, etc. as appropriate)
    - inside the box, mount over and encompass the duct opening with:
    ...* build a box for the 12x16 (or larger) like a window rough-in (only 1" or 1/2" wood is fine), or
    ...* find a plastic storage box that can fit over that is of an appropriate size, cut the bottom out for a grill opening,
    - mount and seal the rough-in/plastic-box to the inside of the box - encompassing the duct opening,
    - install a grill on inside open side of that rough-in/plastic-box,
    - install the pad on the grill.
    Or some variation of that.
unicooler through wall.jpg
p.s.
You know you need an airflow exhaust too?
Make sure you can close it against a dust storm while you're out exploring.
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:26 am

I would just set the intake of the cooler against the 12" hole on the inside of the pod.

If that hole doesn't have mesh, go outside and tape the edge of the hole to the vent panel to keep it sealed.
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anotherperson
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by anotherperson » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:57 am

Hey fellow burners,

I started out on the journey to make a bucket cooler but abandoned it after realizing our tent volume is 920 cu ft!

So I'm now making a larger cooler :)

I'd like to make it from a polyethelene garbage can, but I'm now stuck trying to find a sealant that can seal the Endless Breeze and air vent covers. Any advice on this?

Edit: Here's a thought, perhaps I could use weather stripping to create a gasket and just bolt things to the polyethelene

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:55 am

100% silicone caulk and bolt will be easier.
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willyd
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by willyd » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:57 am

If you're set on a garbage can, why not go for something more like this? (The original inspiration for the bucket cooler, just bigger scale). Sealing flat vents and the EB fan to the sides of a trash can sounds really hard and prone to failure on the playa.

https://www.instructables.com/id/Portab ... mp-cooler/

anotherperson
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by anotherperson » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:02 am

@FIGJAM

From what I've read, silicone caulk won't adhere to polyethelene

see here: https://smile.amazon.com/ask/questions/ ... pmw_al_hza

@willyd

I saw that also. The only difference is the fan would face up and need to be duct'd. I'll have to think through which would build would be easier and less prone to failure

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Canoe
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:46 pm

anotherperson wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:57 am
... a polyethelene garbage can, but I'm now stuck trying to find a sealant that can seal the Endless Breeze and air vent covers. Any advice on this?
Edit: Here's a thought, perhaps I could use weather stripping to create a gasket and just bolt things to the polyethelene
I was going to suggest weather stripping. Check if it is open cell or closed cell. If open cell, after install, seal the stripping on the positive pressure side.

You may need a thin plywood plate on the other side of the polyethylene so you have a more even pressure for the bolting pressure. Try with with finder washers first?

You might find a plumbers' putty that works.

Or perhaps you could use something like Loctite Plastics Bonding system to bond a bicycle inner tube to the polyethylene to use as a gasket.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:43 pm

I've used L brackets to attach fan and duct, then silicone for the seal and never had an issue.

Also E6000 set to the same consistency with more sticking power.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by anotherperson » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:53 pm

@FIGJAM

Did you use the silicone and E6000 with polyethelene plastic? Or are you talking about your plywood build?

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:16 pm

It was on fiberglass re-enforced plastic, which is shinny slick.
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Blompson
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Blompson » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:39 pm

Building my first bucket swampy and I've got a couple observations and questions regarding the duracool pads.

The orange Homer buckets at my local Ham Despot are different dimensions than specified: 14.5" deep x 10" internal diameter at bottom and 11" internal diameter at top. I cut my first set of pads to 13" as specified and they came out way too short. So I want to cut my new set to what, the full 14.5" height for inner pad and ~14.25" height for outer to accommodate the water line? Is that right?

Also, as I'm working with the brand new duracool pad I'm noticing it came rolled up with a slightly "softer" side facing inward and a kind of harder, stiffer (heh) side facing outward. I've also noticed that it occupies a smaller diameter when I flip the tube inside out so the softer side faces outward. It's not because of the stitching I've put in, because this happens with my second pad too which is a loose sheet still. I lose a whole inch off the 10" diameter tube when it's flipped inside out (becoming only 9" in diameter). I tried to attach pictures but I guess they're too big *shrug*. Anyway, has anybody else seen this/have input on it? Is there a benefit to one side or the other facing a particular direction as far as saturation/airflow/dust avoidance?

Lastly, I've read mentions once in a while here that the pads have a "grain" to them which, if not properly oriented, can cause pads to sag and slouch over time. I can't for the life of me find any difference when I rotate the material 90 degrees. Is there something I should be looking for?

Thanks!
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by anotherperson » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:52 am

With a well-built "endless breeze" swamp cooler*, do you guys think I'd need a shade structure over my group's tent (920 cu ft)?

*it will be like the box cooler, but there will be less intake zone surface area; something between the unicooler and the box cooler

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FIGJAM
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:57 am

If the fan can work with no resistance on the intake or exhaust, it will change ALL the air in that space every minute on high speed.

That may work ok with no shade.

The cooler will use a lot more water on high.
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