WAR! What is it good for?

All things outside of Burning Man.
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nymphgonebad
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Post by nymphgonebad » Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:55 pm

TestesInSac wrote:
princess strych-9 wrote:are you trying to tell me you havn't learned anything from this exchange? if you havn't, i suggest you stop posting for a while and reread all of the above.
And what if I've already read the lot of that somewhere else? Supposing I've even used some of it to argue against intervention myself? Wouldn't your admonition then be a bit presumptuous?
then bully for you. i guess you're just a better person than i am.

congradulations, man. you win.

feel any better?

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Post by TestesInSac » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:00 pm

princess strych-9 wrote: then bully for you. i guess you're just a better person than i am.

congradulations, man. you win.

feel any better?
No need for petulance, and in Chimp's favor, it's nice that it's mostly confined to this thread. Perhaps I'll try and find something original next week on this topic.
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Post by nymphgonebad » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:06 pm

No need for petulance, and in Chimp's favor, it's nice that it's mostly confined to this thread. Perhaps I'll try and find something original next week on this topic.[/quote]

right, *i'm* being petulant.

you have the longest index finger in the world and it always seems to be pointed at someone else.

i suggest you stick it up your ass and while you're at it, extract whatever creature crawled up your rectum and died.

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:25 pm

"Hey kids, Knock that shit off. Now!"
- mom
Desert dogs drink deep.

Kinetic

Post by Kinetic » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:27 pm

Wait a minute, shouldn't this stuff be in "GENERAL DISCUSSION" and not in the 2003 Theme: Beyond Belief area?

As for the war, I won't discuss it except to say I've already made up my mind how I stand on it, and I plan to express my views through political donations and the ballot box. The donations are key, because ol' Ben can speak a lot louder than I can to those guys in D.C.

I'm a news junkie / military history fan, and I'm resisting the urge to bring a full Iowa class 9 gun broadside on the thread.

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Post by nymphgonebad » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:44 pm

sorry, mom.

be he started it!!!!!!! :twisted:

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Post by nymphgonebad » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:47 pm

oh, seems "dad" ( schreck ) wants to weigh in on the subject as well:

"don't make me turn e-playa around; i'll drive us right back to the web page if you two keep that up!"

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PJ
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Post by PJ » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:50 pm

...US Forces opened fire at a wedding party that was shooting into the air...
Considering the tension those guys have been living under, I would be extremely shocked if they didn't open up on any group that suddenly starts popping off AKs. When you're living under martial law with nervous homesick occupying forces all around you, celebrating a wedding with gunfire is simply stupid.

Besides, this principle isn't confined to recently-liberated-and-hoping-to-revert-to-bronze-age-theocracy-shitholes: a wedding party in suburban Connecticut would get mowed down by the local SWAT team if they started shooting in the air.

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read i

Post by Chimp » Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:34 pm

Just to say, to those of you who have read it all before or heard this or that, 'its all been said' on the old Eplaya- well, like, I am truly amazed, after all that interpreter was only blown away yesterday and the guy from Illinois in the 101st Aibourne Division only made those comments this week and the letter from the Iaqi professor was only in the paper today - Wow, I had no idea there were so many goddamned psychics among you - yeah it must seem hackneyed if you are privy to information that fast, miraculous I would say - er Badger, it takes some glimmer of imagination at least to wish to share current info and generate discussion no? BTW I typed those articles out of the paper, couldn't get them on The Independent website without paying to subscribe, not that that matters a fuck - so anyway - sorry it bugs you so much.

The war in Iraq is perfect for the Beyond Belief forum, it is fucking well beyond belief.

BM a political movement? Not at this rate.

Kinetic

Post by Kinetic » Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:43 pm

We really need the old e-playa archives restored. Half these threads are going around in circles covering stuff that's already been covered!

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Post by Chimp » Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:44 pm

PJ - yeah, really dumb of 'em huh, guess they fucking deserved it then hey? For celebrating in the way they have for decades - what stupid people - mothers and kids are just in the firing line in a situation like that hey - what STUPID people - you arrogant tit.

My neighbours were Iraqi refugees for twelve years, they had customs very different to ours but they were some of the kindest people I have known. Whatever, those stupid people out there, can't run their own goverment etc....

Martial law, they didn't fucking ask for it pal, oh hang on actually they asked for help when they rose up after the 1st gulf war and were left to be massacred, I think they asked for help then directly from the US. Yeah that would be right, and then they were fucking slaughtered.

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Post by TestesInSac » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:05 pm

\Pet"u*lance\, Petulancy \Pet"u*lan*cy\, n. [L.
petulania: cf. F. p['e]tulance. See {Petulant}.]
The quality or state of being petulant; temporary
peevishness; pettishness; capricious ill humor.
princess strych-9 wrote:then bully for you. i guess you're just a better person than i am.

congradulations, man. you win.

feel any better?
Fits...
princess strych-9 wrote: right, *i'm* being petulant.

you have the longest index finger in the world and it always seems to be pointed at someone else.

i suggest you stick it up your ass and while you're at it, extract whatever creature crawled up your rectum and died.
...and fits. Both were fits.

Before I completely dismiss anything further you have to say, allow me to point out that your criticism would be more credible if you were saying the same to your cyber-lovemonkey. His name-calling and finger-wagging is greater in volume and vulgarity any other here including my own.

Oh, and in case you have a problem with PJ's point about celebratory gunplay, I suggest you get a gun, find the nearest police station and fire into the air in celebration of you and your amour's moral superiority.
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Badger
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Post by Badger » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:10 pm

er Badger, it takes some glimmer of imagination at least to wish to share current info and generate discussion no?
Actually, my tendency is to see it as patronizing on your part. To be continually spoon fed your reportage' in order to anchor your political slant from whatever sources you glean them from in order to buttress your own View of the World. The underlying assumption here seems to be that we somehow need you to do our thinking for us.

We don't.

Really.
Desert dogs drink deep.

Kinetic

Post by Kinetic » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:21 pm

Chimp wrote:Just to say, to those of you who have read it all before or heard this or that, 'its all been said' on the old Eplaya- well, like, I am truly amazed, after all that interpreter was only blown away yesterday and the guy from Illinois in the 101st Aibourne Division only made those comments this week and the letter from the Iaqi professor was only in the paper today - Wow, I had no idea there were so many goddamned psychics among you - yeah it must seem hackneyed if you are privy to information that fast, miraculous I would say - er Badger, it takes some glimmer of imagination at least to wish to share current info and generate discussion no? BTW I typed those articles out of the paper, couldn't get them on The Independent website without paying to subscribe, not that that matters a fuck - so anyway - sorry it bugs you so much.

The war in Iraq is perfect for the Beyond Belief forum, it is fucking well beyond belief.

BM a political movement? Not at this rate.
I wasn't going to post anymore but the above post warrants a response. I happen to be partially psychic so you irritated me there. But then I read the rest of the post....and I'm like I knew about this crap the second it hits the wires. I'm a news junkie, I have been since I was a reporter right out of high school for my local CC newspaper and I never looked back. I get wire services and all kinds of feeds, LEO type feeds from having family in law enforcment and ex military, and I subscribe to a host of other services that keep me very much in the loop on what happens in Iraq as well as other places. (If ya wanna worry about world events, worry about North Korea and Iran). My point is great, you typed this stuff in from the wire services. So what. I am privy to a lot more information than you will ever see, and besides this post I don't go around making a big deal of it.

I love a good debate, but keep the personal sniping out of it. And while I'm ranting and raving, I think the custom of shooting AK's into the air is one of the absolute dumbest fucking things I've ever seen. The reason why? Simple physics. What goes up must come down. Some poor sap downrange is about to get near misses or direct hits from those bullets that are being blasted skyward. I've run across stuff on the wire services where people killed their own kids because those celebratory bullets came down through the roof and the kids never had a chance. I'm sure I can go back into the archives I keep over here and post articles on the subject if you want me to back up my statement. I don't want to flood the board with it though unless the need is there to do it.

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Post by PJ » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:33 pm

Iraqis aren't the only third-worlders with a tradition of shooting straight up in the air. Three shots straight up from a revolver has long been a Mexican celebratory tradition. One that was less foolish when they lived in rural squalor than after they moved to high-density Los Angeles. Bullets are fairly aerodynamically-clean and having been shot vertically they return to ground level with about the same energy they had when they left the muzzle.

Anybody got any stats from East LA regarding annual Cinco de Mayo deaths from bullets falling straight down through the cranium?

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Re: read i

Post by TestesInSac » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:34 pm

Chimp wrote:BM a political movement? Not at this rate.
Another specious judgement. It might not be <b>your</b> political movement, and I'm beginning to think that's what this is really about.

Nevertheless, BM, as a <b>heterogeneous</b> expression of freedom, necessarily has a political component to it. As something that spreads, it can be seen as a movement. Regardless of whether it satisfies your needs for moral or political vindication.
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Re: read i

Post by PJ » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:37 pm

TestesInSac wrote:Nevertheless, BM...has a political component to it. As something that spreads, it can be seen as a movement. Regardless of whether it satisfies your needs for moral or political vindication.
Got yer movement right here:
http://seasilver.threadnet.com/Preventorium/bowel.htm

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Post by TestesInSac » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:44 pm

ROFL, now that's <cough> appropriate.

Oh, and dried peaches work pretty good too.
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Post by seaquesta » Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:44 pm

Strych-9, you're a teacher. Frightening! Do you write on the chalk board at the beginning of the year "Hi, I'm Ms. Strych-9 and I frighten grown men? :shock: So, 9 don't be mad at me for picking on your boy rock star. He is full of discontent. Go to Santa Cruz and grab a vollyball player. That way you will have sand in your panties all year round.

Well, Chimp, you, the rock star guy with the attitude and a knack to read political information with a nose of harrassy*.
It wasn't a direct hit on the family name it is more a lead into, it's easier to blame the Brits from an American point, than to actually be honest and ask the burners to fill out a form. Don't ask questions like those that you have. It's disturbing!
I mean this action of taking over countries for the benefit of one party or another is barbaric at best. Look at your own government's BBC seeking out a scapegoat to hold firmly in front of the people to ease the pressure on themselves. And to do it to a meek, highly educated doctor (I can’t remember his name) that specialized in the knowledge of the very WMD whom understood this process more than anyone else. And they say he killed himself. More dad people.
Our country, America is the bully taking the ground it feels it wants to have, what it thinks is important and they are doing it with expertise of the courts to rectify their means.
It's wrong, it's criminal and we will as a country have hell to pay for the deed.
War is not the way! It is done to satisfy the want a people want, nothing more. Sure it is done but that doesn’t mean it is right.
Part of the reason for the Burning Man is for the people to go and be free of the state of this society. It is a release. And, don’t bring up the point that we are becoming a political power because it is the management that hold in the management of the burns so we as free children of earth can just dance, bounce about mentally and physically and enjoy a week of bliss. I could go on but that is for another thread.
Now, I support my country, I have the right to say those things too and I will if captured, have my day in court as a citizen. But that isn't to say I will not be treated any better than far to many of the fallen Iraqi's under the Saddam Hussein regime who's graves our soldiers found. One soldier of which was my young nephew of 21. Children shouldn’t see that strife in life. I love my country but, fear my government!
I'll go deeper. I did not have to go to Viet Nam because I was a high number in the lottery. I did try to enlist but when I heard the number I was out of there. Sailed the South Pacific instead... 8)

We could have done it another way! Don’t go there either. That is the stuff for movies.

Take your war questions and go away! Leave these peaceful folks alone. If your not going to go away, do the right thing and ask questions that pertain to the betterment of the daily goings on at the Playa. Play acoustical music too.

Peace brother!

Hey, stop by the tiki hut in 04 and have a cold Red Strip (hooray Beer!)

(*)[French harasser, possibly from Old French harer, to set a dog on, from hare, interj. used to set a dog on, of Germanic origin.]
Nihil Humanum Est Alienum Mihi!
Nothing Human Is Foreign To Me!

Kinetic

Post by Kinetic » Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:45 pm

BM isn't political yet, but it will be! And I plan to be right in the middle of it all!

From this year's Media Hits on the main BM site, I offer you the following:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stori ... 10848.html

Quoted from Larry Harvey himself:
Phase Three is creating regional festivals and bringing cutting-edge art into communities nationwide.

Phase Four is turning those people into an Internet-connected network for social and ultimately political change, in Harvey's vision.

Lead, follow if you must but otherwise get out of the way, we're coming through! This is why I want to be a Regional Coordinator, I share the vision, and I'm stepping up to make it happen.

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Post by TestesInSac » Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:51 pm

As long as you don't send the ravers to concentration camps, I'm cool. I prefer my ravers to be free range.
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Kinetic

Post by Kinetic » Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:55 pm

We need the old e-playa threads restored...we had the best recipes for free-range ravers over there.

Wait a second, I danced at Sol System and I caught Sandra Collins' awesome set....does this make me a raver? I didn't have glow sticks or anything like they usually do.....and I am 33...I thought most ravers were younger!

Shit, maybe some things are best left in the past!

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Post by TestesInSac » Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:01 pm

Too late, I already have the BBQ sauce out!
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Celebratory gun fire!

Post by seaquesta » Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:20 pm

Celebratory gun fire...doing it for decades. Wait a fucking minute. The result has nothing to do with the reason. Well, maybe it does.
In times of families fighting amoungst themselves the deal was they keep amo in the guns incase the deal of peace went bad. Good o'l brotherly love. So when someone got married the faith in peace grew larger and those with guns fired the stored bullets in a show of good faith for the marrage and continued peace.
Actually, I just made that up. But, it sounded good.

Per what our friendly POM wrote, or typed, or pasted... whatever he posted it.
One of the Iraqi writers mentioned that they have not or can not celebrate the "freeing" because they are so used to being under someone's control they just go on and live as they have. Sad, but probably true.
We will succed in freeing the Iraqi people but, It will take decades. Yeah, a long time. Much like taking a beaten person to a psychiatrist. It takes time.
Nihil Humanum Est Alienum Mihi!
Nothing Human Is Foreign To Me!

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Post by nymphgonebad » Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:22 pm

seaquesta wrote:Strych-9, you're a teacher. Frightening! Do you write on the chalk board at the beginning of the year "Hi, I'm Ms. Strych-9 and I frighten grown men? :shock: So, 9 don't be mad at me for picking on your boy rock star. He is full of discontent. Go to Santa Cruz and grab a vollyball player. That way you will have sand in your panties all year round.

my goodness!!!!


let me just say this - i think that virtual communication leaves a lot to be desired. when you can't see another person's expression or hear the tone of their voice or read their body langauge, so much gets lost in translation. how are you to know whether or not i'm being sarcastic or contrary to make a point? miscommunication is inevitable in a forum where intent, inflection, and social cues don't really parse.

as far as chimp is concerned, the private relationship we have is very different from our public relationship. much of what is shared stays private. i'll concede to being biased, but i do happen to agree with a lot of what he says. in a way, the karmic connection i have with him is no different from the one i have with testes - the difference being that the chimp's and mine is about accord and testes' and mine is about kicking each other in the kidneys til were both pissing blood!!!!! i fully respect and support anyone's desicion to disagree or even dislike me.

i suppose what i'm trying to say here is that even tho i come across as a crotchety old bitch, i'm really a pussycat by nature. and testes, i'm sorry if i offended you. it was not my original intent. also to address your comment about my lack of finger-pointing in chimp's direction, i'll concede again that i do have a bias. however, i think it's possible that the reverse is true as well; that i don't attack him in front of others is an indication of the fact that we try and keep that shit away from everyone else ( i'll also concede that we don't always manage to pull this off ). you don't see him riding up on his shining steed to rescue me everytime someone flames me, do you. would you prefer that we act like even greater imbeciles?

peace, everyone.

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Post by PJ » Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:46 pm

princess strych-9 wrote:virtual communication leaves a lot to be desired. when you can't see another person's expression or hear the tone of their voice or read their body langauge, so much gets lost in translation.
That's why Minnesotans are so good at Internet communication. They don't have body language. (Although that absence is in itself a sort of body language. In the way that we experience "cold", though physicists might point out that there's no such thing--rather there's varying degrees of hot, some of which are less-so.)

I suspect the Minnesotan lack of body language is due to generations of "hunkering" in a cold climate. Can't get warm inside your lumpy parka if you're gesticulating all over the place like some sort of Italian or something.

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Post by TestesInSac » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:00 pm

princess strych-9 wrote:...testes' and mine is about kicking each other in the kidneys til were both pissing blood!!!!!
Oh, fer Dog's sake, not even! If I were going in 2k4 and you happened into my bar, either of you would be welcome to a beer (subject to availability) or a drink. Or water, or moisturizer, or SPF30 lip balm for that matter.

FYI, AntiTelephonica (from Zane's camp) and I went at it many times on the eplaya, and on the real playa there was none of it; I was happy to have met him, same goes for many others, especially Stu, as we both ditched the burn in the company of a girl from Thunderdome who looked remarkably like Jennifer Connelly (yum!).

The point is, BM isn't a big anti-war protest, it's not a Pride March, etc. I kept hammering on heterogeneity in the hopes that it would jar the recognition that something the size of BM exists precisely because of inclusivity, little of which can be found in Chimpy's posts. I kept posing questions to Chimpy in the hopes of seeing him change tactics. I was looking for the recognition that BM needs a little of everything to assure its long term viability.

And believe me, just a little bit said of this expensive, divisive and bloody operation in Irag goes quite a long way.
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Post by nymphgonebad » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:16 pm

dude, i was kidding. i have no real desire to piss blood or kick you anywhere. i would, however, love to share a cocktail with you. and lip balm, sunscreen, h20, food, beer, and anything else i have.

i'm being sincere, ya fuckin noob!!!!!!

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Post by nymphgonebad » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:19 pm

dude, i was kidding. i have no real desire to piss blood or kick you anywhere. i would, however, love to share a cocktail with you. and lip balm, sunscreen, h20, food, beer, and anything else i have.

i'm being sincere, ya fuckin noob!!!!!!

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Post by TestesInSac » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:19 pm

princess strych-9 wrote:dude, i was kidding. i have no real desire to piss blood or kick you anywhere. i would, however, love to share a cocktail with you. and lip balm, sunscreen, h20, food, beer, and anything else i have.

i'm being sincere, ya fuckin noob!!!!!!
See, now that makes me wanna go in 2k4.

I'm so fickle.
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