Don't Call it Gun Control

[Montanarchist]

This will surely lead to much wailing and gnashing of teeth with the pro victim disarmament (formerly know as gun control) crowd but my conspiracy theory is now proven as fact.

The grayhound bus shooting is proof positive of my fourth and final fact claimed. A crazy who was legally barred from firearm ownership, who shot the disarmed law-abiding citizens in a so-called gun free zone. #guncontrol is
#victimdisarmament #GunControlNow is murder

Fact 1) Firearm production will continue no matter what laws are in place. Even without 3D printing, all that's required are commonly available plumbing fittings a household chemicals.

Fact 2) There will never be a gun free society. The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto got firearms and led an armed resistance against their SS guards. -and if you think that Hitler didn't have all kinds of gun laws, you don't know your history.

Fact 3) If there will always be firearms, so-called gun laws will only be followed by law abiding individuals which will leave them helpless victims to the criminals who have always disregard laws.

Fact 4) What is commonly called "gun control" is actually in practical application nothing more than victim disarmament.

M

[Lonesomebri]

Where did the gun control hurt you?

[Montanarchist]

Where did the gun control hurt you?

Back in '89 or '90 I was downtown Denver with my best friend who was black. There was a bunch of skinheads, they didn't like us and sat least one had a knife. If I didn't have a little .25 auto- which brandishing was enough to scare them off- I may not be here to ask for any logical rebuttals.

[Lonesomebri]

....best friend black, this story totally checks out

[Montanarchist]

....best friend black, this story totally checks out

Your lack of any logical rebuttal, and implied ad hominem attack reveal your lack of intelligence. Run along and go find another place to spread your hate and victim disarmament. You're a de facto sociopath.

[Lonesomebri]

Telling strangers on a public internet forum that they must leave because they mock you successfully.... Totally not psycho. "Victim disarmament" sounds like you see, or plan to make, neutral people into victims. Your imagined story is totally a logical rebuttal that wins the day.

[Montanarchist]

Fresh evidence straight off the presses: Virginia tech's Super Secret Double Disarmament Kill the Students Plan didn't work. Duh! See Fact 2, above. If Hitler couldn't disarm the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto who seriously believed those ivory tower idiots could keep people safe via victim disarmament? Meanwhile here in Montana, our ivory tower intellectuals are wailing and gnashing their teeth because when we legalized non-permit concealed weapon carry for the whole state! we included all university's property as well.

M

I refuse to be dragged into the debate equivalent of toddlers temper tantrums. I will not respond to any further claims unless the directly address one of my four factually proven points.

[Montanarchist]

Mass shootings in the US: just try to find Montana on this list. California with their mountain of victim disarmament laws is Number 1 you'll note.

California 22
Florida 12
Texas 11
Washington 7
Colorado 7
Wisconsin 5
Pennsylvania 5
Illinois 4
New York 4
Ohio 4
Connecticut 3
Georgia 3
Maryland 3
Michigan 3
Virginia 2
Tennessee 2
Oregon 2
Nevada 2
South Carolina 2
Minnesota 2
North Carolina 2
Kentucky 2
Missouri 2
Kansas 1
Lousiana 1
Utah 1
Massachusetts 1
Hawaii 1
D.C. 1
Arkansas 1
Arizona 1
Mississippi 1
Iowa 1
Nebraska 1
Oklahoma 1
New Jersey 1
Indiana 1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... z1bqhmGyXQ

[Molotov]

[Lonesomebri]

Context: I've never confiscated a gun from anyone in my life. I bet if you want a gun you have one. So...

Context: The Burn is a gun free zone, as firearms are restricted. Let's talk about this issue in the context of this entire forum.

Should guns be restricted at the Burn? All the same arguments apply. Do you believe that Black Rock City should be open carry? In response to threats, assaults, crime, etc, do you believe allowing firearms would solve problems? Hypothetical lives saved verses lives lost? I wonder if the people working gate, the fences, rangers, etc would appreciate an armed population to help them keep order and prevent crime? Is open carry necessary to prevent a despotic rule of the org, as our forefathers wanted? To defend the ice-cooler from midnight mooks? Should there be open carry allowed at the Burn, or are you a freedom hating victim enabling communist?

Context: I'm cool with the gun control at Black Rock City, though I long for days past, where guns were present, I understand those days are past

Context: where are guns being confiscated? Whose playing victim here?

[Montanarchist]

Moving the goalposts is an informal fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. That is, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt.[11] The problem with changing the rules of the game is that the meaning of the result is changed, too.[12]

Please address facts 1-4 and their evidence I've present.

Context: I've never confiscated a gun from anyone in my life. I bet if you want a gun you have one. So...

Context: The Burn is a gun free zone, as firearms are restricted. Let's talk about this issue in the context of this entire forum.

Should guns be restricted at the Burn? All the same arguments apply. Do you believe that Black Rock City should be open carry? In response to threats, assaults, crime, etc, do you believe allowing firearms would solve problems? Hypothetical lives saved verses lives lost? I wonder if the people working gate, the fences, rangers, etc would appreciate an armed population to help them keep order and prevent crime? Is open carry necessary to prevent a despotic rule of the org, as our forefathers wanted? To defend the ice-cooler from midnight mooks? Should there be open carry allowed at the Burn, or are you a freedom hating victim enabling communist?

Context: I'm cool with the gun control at Black Rock City, though I long for days past, where guns were present, I understand those days are past

Context: where are guns being confiscated? Whose playing victim here?

[Montanarchist]

https://youtu.be/uFwkYAsR8DM
The drive by shooting range was a little before my time but it's important to remember that The Burn as we know it (not the beach party) was actually an anarchist Zone Trip.

[The Rod]

Never mind that California is by far the most populated place on that list so it stands to reason that they’d have shootings proportional to the population.

Never mind that absolutely no one anywhere in the country is confiscating firearms nor are any politicians advocating for such.

You know what, nevermind…

[Simon of the Playa]

you know what? i do remember the drive by shooting range.

i brought a rifle to the burn in 96' and in 97'.

it was just stupid fun. im kinda ashamed of how much fun it can be.

but...

in 2002 i got arrested for possession of a shotgun that was on my bike for personal protection, as i was driving across 3000 miles of highway.

it was fucking stupid to bring it in to the site then,

and it's fucking stupid and cowardly now to feel the need to have a dangerous weapon at a peaceful, heavily populated event.

you wanna be fucking stupid? you that scared a snowflake you gotta carry a gun everywhere you go?



well, my little frightened one, do it some place else.

and respect the goddamn closure order or pay the stupid tax in the lovelock jail like i did.

jumpin jesus, nobody is taking away your fucking peni, i mean gun, it's a private event that has rules, deal with it.

[Montanarchist]

Sorry to hear your right to self defense was violated and even more sorry that it beat you down to the point that you don't think you have a right to defend yourself. However, nothing you said was a rebuttal, and my facts still stand. So-called gun control is actually victim disarmmament.

[The Rod]

Please provide a citation to backup your claim that gun control is “victim disarmament” eg: who is trying to disarm you/anyone else or active legislation aimed at disarming the general population?

[Montanarchist]

Please provide a citation to backup your claim that gun control is “victim disarmament” eg: who is trying to disarm you/anyone else or active legislation aimed at disarming the general population?

See points 1,2,3. Furthermore any Montanan leaving the state of Montana is disarmed to one length or another. When I come to Portland I can not conceal my pistol without threat of being killed by a swat team. Open carry when I'm in DC equals shot by White House snipers. Do you need more examples are do you concede the point?

[The Rod]

You choosing of your own free will to enter an area with restrictions on firearms does not equal someone taking your weapons away you fucking maroon.

[Montanarchist]

You choosing of your own free will to enter an area with restrictions on firearms does not equal someone taking your weapons away you fucking maroon.

So your argument is that depriving someone of their civil rights of ok as long they leave their home? Ad hominem attacks are the sign of a weak mind. How about a rebuttal to my facts 1,2,3,4 and their evidence.

[Ratty]

Wow! I leave ePlaya for a few short years and it devolves into a debate about guns. Since when are guns a part of Burning Man? Guns haven't been allowed there in a couple of decades. I need to catch up.

[lucky420]

It’s right here
Right in this spot

[Montanarchist]

It's back! Now who want to provide a rebuttal to any of the above points. Logically, please.

M

[FlyingMonkey]

I think we are a kidding ourselves if we assume no one brings guns to the Playa. 70K + people, there are bound to be a few. But TBH that's probably no different then a concert or any large venue. I mean when you think about it a lot of people drive thousands of miles to get there and may feel the need to have protection "on the road". I also wouldn't be shocked if some celeb's or wealthy people have armed security with them while they fall off their Segways and take Instasham pictures.

I don't support anyone bringing them in to the Burn but at the same time I'd bet I happens more than we think.

- WTF do we talk politics here more than we talk about all the cool shit we experience & create?

--- We have never needed Sparr more than we do NOW!

[Montanarchist]

Valid points. But I would expound the "on the road" bit. What about a young gay man driving their RV from the NE and knowing that they will have to stop in Laramie WY. What if they also knew what happened to Matthew?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

Would they be right in bringing a force equalizer (aka firearm)? I think logic, the Magna Carta, the Constitution, and centuries of case law are on their side.

Does the BMORG make any guarantees to protect anyone at The Burn? That's an unequivocally NO! They would go to court to argue such, I guarantee you.

What about the organized crime there, not just the generator thieves but hardcore gang heroin dealers and such? They are armed despite whatever pathic rules the BMORG makes.

Let's not forget all the guns with the secret police and uniformed Jack Boot Thugs? As the last years have shown they just love to shoot civilians.

So the BMORG will fight to not be responsible for your safety and they also do their best to prevent participants from being able to protect themselves. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

All shades of Victim Disarmmament, formally called gun control.

I think we are a kidding ourselves if we assume no one brings guns to the Playa. 70K + people, there are bound to be a few. But TBH that's probably no different then a concert or any large venue. I mean when you think about it a lot of people drive thousands of miles to get there and may feel the need to have protection "on the road". I also wouldn't be shocked if some celeb's or wealthy people have armed security with them while they fall off their Segways and take Instasham pictures.

I don't support anyone bringing them in to the Burn but at the same time I'd bet I happens more than we think.

- WTF do we talk politics here more than we talk about all the cool shit we experience & create?

--- We have never needed Sparr more than we do NOW!

[Skuzzy61]

I am guessing no one is going to play the game with someone who does not know the difference between a fact and conjecture.

You also shot yourself in the foot with the mass shooting list. Texas is an open carry state and made #3 on your list, suggesting there is far more to that issue than the single point you have drawn. The list is comprised of the number of incidents where four or more people were killed, since 1982. Nevada only had two incidents, but one of them accounted for 58 deaths and 546 injuries. Nevada is also an open carry state.

Not much to discuss, really.

Just FYI. Great Britain has the toughest gun control laws in the world (I could be wrong, but I do not believe I am) and they have had 1 mass shooting since 2011 where six people were killed. Keep in mind England's population density is almost three times higher than California's.

[Montanarchist]

You didn't address points 1,2,3,4 or their [\b] evidence. Want to give those a try instead of just a minor sideline point

I am guessing no one is going to play the game with someone who does not know the difference between a fact and conjecture.

You also shot yourself in the foot with the mass shooting list. Texas is an open carry state and made #3 on your list, suggesting there is far more to that issue than the single point you have drawn. The list is comprised of the number of incidents where four or more people were killed, since 1982. Nevada only had two incidents, but one of them accounted for 58 deaths and 546 injuries. Nevada is also an open carry state.

Not much to discuss, really.

Just FYI. Great Britain has the toughest gun control laws in the world (I could be wrong, but I do not believe I am) and they have had 1 mass shooting since 2011 where six people were killed. Keep in mind England's population density is almost three times higher than California's.

[Montanarchist]

Fresh evidence to support points 1-4!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchro ... 795216.php

Here's yet another individual who was legally barred from firearm ownership killing those whom voters/politicians in San Francisco have disarmed. The blood is on your hands!

[Montanarchist]

I know how people in the bay like "local" that's why I chose that example but I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of other examples just from yesterday

M

[Simon of the Playa]

oh yeah, i'm so good, i'm so smart, i'm so edgy......

[BBadger]

These kinds of delusional whackos is exactly why guns should not be allowed on playa.