Carbon Offsets within Placement 2022?

[claybcook]

I just finished the placement application for my Camp. There were quite a lot of questions that really don't apply to us, we're a very small animal. I tried to do my best. There was one question which really gave me pause, and heartburn, however. There is a question WHICH MUST BE FILLED OUT in order to finish the application which asks me to determine the carbon footprint of my camp. In order to do this, the Placement process took me to another site which included a carbon footprint calculator. Fine. When my answer was given, this website then offered to SELL ME carbon offsets, presumably to make amends for the sin of emitting carbon.

Principle #3 calls for Decommodification, and yet the very process of applying for placement this year took me to a place beyond the Burning Man site, which offered to SELL me a COMMODITY. Anyone else have a problem with this?

I will not go into asking whether considering your camp's carbon footprint is a worthwhile goal.
I will not address whether carbon offsets are worthwhile avenues to actually offset carbon emissions or not.
Feel free to discuss among yourselves all of these and more in any Radically Inclusive way you choose.

I merely want to state that, IMHO, offering to sell me carbon offsets as a part of the process that is required in order to place a camp on Playa is offensive and totally obliterates Principle #3.

If you are aware of your carbon footprint, and if that is important to you, then you are very likely to know about carbon offsets and you can make your own decision on whether they work for you or not. You are Burners. You can figure it out.

Inserting such considerations into the road I must take to place a camp would blow your mind if I was offered the chance to buy gasoline at a reduced price or rent U-Haul trailers cheap because the Borg had made such arrangements.

Something is very wrong about this.

[Canoe]

Welcome to encountering the weird and wonderful world of the Org.

[some seeing eye]

The Burning Man Org has convened a sustainability project who are volunteers.

The early work on the carbon footprint of BRC was done for Green Man, the 2007 theme.

That found that travel to and from the burn was 87% of the carbon footprint. If people are compelled to travel to the burn, that is one of the most accessible purchasable offsets. You can buy those anywhere, and if the BMORG wants to make it easy to buy carbon offsets through them, all the better.

They are definitely going to measure the carbon footprint and carbon offsets, independently camp purchased, or purchased through the org. Placement is the only measurement channel for those.

Many of the burners the event wants to attract and needs to attract believe climate is an existential issue. They are not going to participate in events that don't have a climate plan period.

[BBadger]

Many of the burners the event wants to attract and needs to attract believe climate is an existential issue. They are not going to participate in events that don't have a climate plan period.

More delusional thinking by the BMOrg. They should (rightly) encourage people to simply not attend at all if they are that concerned about the effects of this event or their part in it.

[ygmir]

Many of the burners the event wants to attract and needs to attract believe climate is an existential issue. They are not going to participate in events that don't have a climate plan period.

More delusional thinking by the BMOrg. They should (rightly) encourage people to simply not attend at all if they are that concerned about the effects of this event or their part in it.

spot on. the hypocrisy
is amazing. "we care about the earth" also: "we are driving some fuel guzzling rig 2,000 miles just for fun".

[claybcook]

Then cut to the chase, rename the event "Burning Children Who Must Be Watched at All Time to Make Sure They Don't Get Boo-Boos" as produced and monitored by "People Who Know Better Than You."

I expect the Borg to outlaw scissors with points next.

Not at all interested in living in their idea of Nirvana. Don't want a baby sitter. Nine Principles to go...

[Grumpy Otter]

This sounds like the Papal dispensations the Popes sold in the Middle Ages to eliminate your sins. The sins still occur, but you get to feel better about them. I think the BOD is more absorbed in self justifying their salaries and their cosmic ideals than what was the basis of growing the community that creates BRC.

Sorry, a lot of sour grapes here.

[The Rod]

tfw when your “counter culture” needs a counter culture…

[ygmir]

tfw when your “counter culture” needs a counter culture…

perfect

[Elorrum]

Reminds me of a bad old joke. I don’t even remember the set up. A man has a weekly dr. appointment, and each week he is later than the previous week. The doctor asks him why. “I have to keep moving, further and further away.” He says.

“Why is that?” The doctor asks.

“Tipi full of shit.”

[kimthepainter]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Clay.

Would seem to be more meaningful if BMORG engaged people during the ticket purchase. Individuals who travel long distances and care about helping offset the carbon footprint could be directed to options to do so (more than one). I travel from the east coast and wasn't aware there was such a thing when I purchased my ticket last month. Give people the opportunity to participate. I would!! You could even ask people who care ALOT, to donate carbon offsetting to all burners who can't afford it.

IMHO, it's the spirit of the request that is faulty, not the request itself.

[Captain Goddammit]

I was gonna go this year, if it was "cancelled" again.
Today's version of BM is about like comparing NASCAR today vs. several decades ago.
There's no longer a single stock fastener on a modern "stock" car racer. People have forgotten what a "stock" car really is.
Burning Man is going right down the same path of degradation

[some seeing eye]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Clay.

Would seem to be more meaningful if BMORG engaged people during the ticket purchase. Individuals who travel long distances and care about helping offset the carbon footprint could be directed to options to do so (more than one). I travel from the east coast and wasn't aware there was such a thing when I purchased my ticket last month. Give people the opportunity to participate. I would!! You could even ask people who care ALOT, to donate carbon offsetting to all burners who can't afford it.

IMHO, it's the spirit of the request that is faulty, not the request itself.

That is a good suggestion you could send to the sustainability group at Burning Man or talk to them on Hive. The Burner Profile and ticket purchases have an email address to engage people on their transportation carbon footprint planning.

It would be after the ticket purchase which is frantic and directed at ticket purchase winners after getting a ticket.

[ygmir]

so, are carbon offsets not available, unless you buy something, and then only from the same vendor?
I don't quite understand "I didn't know this existed" or other statements?
If indeed a person thinks said carbon offsets matter, it would seem they'd be doing it without a convenient "click" when purchasing a ticket?
Or is part of it the social signaling, so people can say "we offset our carbon for going to TTITD, and did it when we got our tickets"?
If this is not a new thing, one also would wonder why the ORG has not put the idea and opportunity out before? Again, seems more like "look at us, and how much we care", by just jumping on the bandwagon, now?

[some seeing eye]

so, are carbon offsets not available, unless you buy something, and then only from the same vendor?
I don't quite understand "I didn't know this existed" or other statements?
If indeed a person thinks said carbon offsets matter, it would seem they'd be doing it without a convenient "click" when purchasing a ticket?
Or is part of it the social signaling, so people can say "we offset our carbon for going to TTITD, and did it when we got our tickets"?
If this is not a new thing, one also would wonder why the ORG has not put the idea and opportunity out before? Again, seems more like "look at us, and how much we care", by just jumping on the bandwagon, now?

Yes to all! How is your healing? I think the points in this thread are all important. I'm pretty deep into carbon and energy as my job.

The atmospheric carbon problem is so vast and existential that there are going to be a lot of approaches, greenwashing and denial. The pro-fossil fuel people have been aggressive on the framing offensive in the last six months. They have smarter consultants. But even arch framer Frank Luntz is saying they are on the wrong track.

I think the new pro-fossil framing discussions are 1 - It's not me as a consumer, it is the big oil companies, so I can consume as I like. 2 - If we plant enough trees we can burn as much fossil fuels as we can profit from. 2 goes to your point. Maybe it is a temporary half measure? It is a discussion.

People make fun of Gore. But it all comes down to the coda of his film An Inconvenient Truth, which should be free online. You can't take your fossil fuel profits-conveniences-indulgences-savings to heaven, and subsequent generations-your offspring will hold you responsible for their literal hell.

Burning Man is a do-ocracy. I think we can drive the BMORG to do the right thing. I think measurement is critical.

I would love to see a charter train service to Gerlach from Amtrak in Reno with bus-in to BRC (thanks Doc Pyro for using Amtrak Reno for confabs) and coordination with Amtrak across North America instead of airlines. It could be quite the party train like the Cacophony Society did on the BART.

[FlyingMonkey]

Many of the burners the event wants to attract and needs to attract believe climate is an existential issue. They are not going to participate in events that don't have a climate plan period.

More delusional thinking by the BMOrg. They should (rightly) encourage people to simply not attend at all if they are that concerned about the effects of this event or their part in it.

spot on. the hypocrisy
is amazing. "we care about the earth" also: "we are driving some fuel guzzling rig 2,000 miles just for fun".

I was going to post a video of the 2019 "The Man's Army" but something is preventing me from uploading any media.

Anyway, I think it even exceeded the amount of black smoke that Embrace belched in to the air. I hear it was an unintended result but it was gross.

Carbon be damned! We're going to burn shit!

So yeah, more BORG do as I say.........bla......bla....bla..........

[burner von braun]

You're right FM, that does appear to be a very dirty burn.

Which prompts me ask... what can be done in terms of materials perhaps, to at least make for cleaner burns? I know painted wood has been off the table for some time, for instance. Personally, I enjoy these amazing burns, but also wonder what can be done going forward to be more conscientious in their regard.

[BBadger]

There was a lot of soot produced by that burn, but at least those materials are renewable. It's really the fossil fuels that power the vehicles used to bring people to the burn that are the major source of pollution. I think I calculated that the number of vehicle passes worth of cars traveling to and from Reno to the Burn, using vehicles that get about 30-35mpg, is about a Catacomb of Veils worth of CO2 and other pollution per year.

It may all be a wash though. People normally going to work throughout the week in their cars -- many with far fewer people hitching a ride -- would be pumping out about that much pollution anyway.

[Elorrum]

If the concept of moving things through the air at great speed became an emergency only activity, would that help? No airport. Or no ticketed passenger flights to playa. No double dippers, plane passengers with delivered (they will figure a way) coach works.

[trilobyte]

Your mileage must vary. The carbon footprint calculation part of the equation was in there for me, part of the process of camps (as well as Burning Man) getting a better understanding of what the carbon footprint might actually be. Not sure if you've been following along for the last 3ish years (or more?), but Burning Man had previously outlined a goal of trying to not just understand the whole carbon footprint, but find a way to be carbon neutral by 2030.

The site to calculate the footprint was fairly generic and not specific to Burning Man, as was the link it offered for offsets (though I didn't click it, it's still too early in the season for our camp). I did not consider it to be any sort of threat or intimidation, and no more of a commodification 'threat' than any other good or service that would be booked or arranged in advance from off-playa.

I believe the placement questionnaire explained it was a third party site, and simply pointed to it as a resource for calculating carbon footprint. You could have also chosen to calculate your carbon footprint in any way you so choose (lots of places on the internet that do that stuff). It seemed helpful, I know there are plenty of sites out there for doing that, but I don't know any offhand and like you I didn't care to bother looking one up at the time (the placement questionnaire is already quite a process). I also did not get the impression that offsets were in any way, shape, or form a requirement for placement in 2022.

My camp has been doing them for years, but we've gone through a different site to both calculate our usage and do the offsetting. We usually wait until further along in our planning process, when we've got a clearer idea of our numbers, and our planned activities.

I do expect that at some point in the years ahead, Burning Man may add either a carbon neutral or carbon offset commitment to the requirements for placement. The way placement has always worked, as more camps request placement than the placement team has placed space to put camps, it has led to a raising of the bar. Initially that meant more effort into decor and interactivity, in recent years there has been an emphasis on acculturation. With Burning Man having made that a public goal, I can totally see them making that a required condition for placement someday.

[trilobyte]

There are tons of arguments about greenwashing and sustainability, anyway. Solar panels and shitloads of batteries have a high carbon footprint to manufacture, and only actually start to make a lot of sense over the course of years of continuous use (permanent installs for homes, businesses, etc), and things get a lot more complicated when you're talking about rigs that only see use for a small portion of the year.

Regardless of what a camp is doing (or not doing, as the case may be), I think it's a potentially worthwhile exercise for camps to start wrapping their head around their footprint. The same could probably be said for people living in homes and apartments in defaultia, but that's getting further afield of the initial discussion about the placement form.

[Lonesomebri]

It's a way to feel good.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-the-hook
"British Petroleum, the second largest non-state owned oil company in the world, with 18,700 gas and service stations worldwide, hired the public relations professionals Ogilvy & Mather to promote the slant that climate change is not the fault of an oil giant, but that of individuals. It’s here that British Petroleum, or BP, first promoted and soon successfully popularized the term “carbon footprint” in the early aughts. The company unveiled its “carbon footprint calculator” in 2004 so one could assess how their normal daily life – going to work, buying food, and (gasp) traveling – is largely responsible for heating the globe. -Mark Kaufman"

[The Rod]

It is a way to feel good.

And it works by shifting the responsibility of climate destruction to the shoulders of individual citizens rather than the energy and defense industries and political systems. And it is climate destruction- the habitable and stable climate of the earth is being destroyed. Branding what is happening as climate "change" is another way of deflecting culpability.

[some seeing eye]

We could start a new ePlaya sustainability thread on ePlaya but it is not not necessary.

We went down a bit of a rathole, rabbithole, playahole on this topic.

Wednesday July 20 the staffers and volunteers discuss. You can conference in noon USA Pacific time https://here.burningman.org/event/susta ... eport-2022

[some seeing eye]

An entertaining look at carbon offsets. Some are legitimate and some are fraudulent. Very disappointing The Nature Conservancy has gone down the dark path.