Hi! Can we park our RV in your camp and then you bugger off?

[alt12]

I received this e-mail today from 2 "third-year burners" who apparently are looking to pay to park in our centrally located camp. And I have to say it really irritated me. Am I over-reacting here? Anyone else find this kind of offensive?

Oy vey


Hello there dusty mayor ,

Avid and I (Giulietta), two German/Swiss third-year burners, are looking for a place to stay. We have tickets and a vehicle pass secured.

I'm sure your warm burning heart could never leave us sitting out in the dust if there was any possibility of joining your glorious camp <3

We're attending BM22 with a 17ft long, 7ft wide RV attached to a GMC Yukon. To be as honest as I can:
We're really only looking to place the RV and car, and of course help out with camp duties if you wish.
And also, we're totally willing to pay for the privilege of putting our RV in your camp. Feel free to tell us what you deem adequate in terms of price.

Awaiting your reply while lovingly knitting my burner's coat to some shiny pink lights.

Hopefully see you in the dust <3

Giulietta (Jinx)

[The Rod]

How did they get your email address in the first place? Were you advertising that your camp had space and was looking for campers?

They offered to help out with camp duties and pay dues. Put 'em to work!

I think you're projecting/reading into the email a bit to arrive at the "and then you bugger off" part of the message...

[Popeye]

I read it that they don't want to join your camp but are willing to do some chores. Participation is important, I wouldn't want them in my camp.

Popeye

[Elorrum]

I would reply with anger and indignation and wtf, but that’s me. Everybody else cool with burning man being a pay more for better access theme park? I thought theme camp application required an estimated footprint of vehicles and structures… is there a lot of open space in camp plans? I am feeling a lot of “I don’t see anything wrong with that” whenever I object to obvious dismissal and avoidance or plain ignorance of the ten principles these days.

[Lonesomebri]

As long as they, out of the generosity and love of their warm burner hearts, leave you, their adopted camp, the keys to the villa at all times. And why not?! You are all good friends now. My casa, su casa. They want your camp as a secure and fun place for themselves, just as you do. They are using your camp, you use their rv. Shifting the camp kitchen and shower to the new arrivals ought to offset the camp footprint. Easy peasy. I'd demand that respect. What could possibly be their objection?

[some seeing eye]

It is a young entitled class that asks the Internet for answers, and asks strangers to give them things. It's the GoFundMe generation. From their point of view, there is no drawback asking. From the point of view of the people asked it is offensive.

Just send a polite no. It is not worth the aggravation. You could befuddle them by suggesting the 2 & 10 camps have a lot of land, so maybe ask there.

[Token]

I think there a bunch of “lost in translation” going on here.

Way I read that, they just want placement and don’t intend to hang out and be all that “camp-y”.

It does read worse than it really is.

I blame it on “culture” where everyone tries to be all cute and creative, when plain expository English would go a long way …

[Elorrum]

Ok, re-reading: They mistakenly believe you can join any camp by asking nicely, and the pitch better be “very burny”. I see Token’s point. It sounds entitled when it might actually just be a vibey over wordiness. They think buying in is is a-ok. (But it is Not a- ok, and I’d say no for this reason alone) I appreciate they didn’t lead with their career descriptions, and do offer chore acceptance. I get that they don’t see it as rudeness or jumping the queue “if you don’t ask the answer is always no.” (I do see it as rude and presumptuous, though.) A polite no then, if the answer is no. or Someone could kindly educate them for their other continuing queries that a placed camp with a desirable location is earned through a commitment, maybe over years, likely with a group of friends , requires a good proposal with a plan for interactivity, and a mapped footprint of vehicles, and emphasize that straight up renting is a burner no-no. Offer a better approach to asking for a camp at least “do you have space? Are you accepting new camp mates, at the very last minute, this year? Here’s what we gather about your camp, and why we like it” Instead of “here’s our space requirement.?” I would say that open camping is an equally wonderful experience, they can make great friends and have good neighbors there too.

[Popeye]

Why not just direct them to this thread? They will receive a little education, several different opinions and a consensus.
They might also decide to read more of EPlaya.

[alt12]

Why not just direct them to this thread? They will receive a little education, several different opinions and a consensus.
They might also decide to read more of EPlaya.

I like your thinking Popeye. I may just do that.

[Skuzzy61]

Just tossing it out there, but it could also be a second language issue.

[ygmir]

Just tossing it out there, but it could also be a second language issue.

along with that, cultural. I've found Europeans just get to the point. No unnecessary fluff.

[Elorrum]

Just tossing it out there, but it could also be a second language issue.

along with that, cultural. I've found Europeans just get to the point. No unnecessary fluff.

Wow, that much slack? Because they are from Europe? They want to pay for a good parking place at burning man. They stated it “honestly,” They’ve been twice already, maybe they did notice the lack of atm, grocery store and gift shop, and that they didn’t need to pay for stuff? Can’t they be schooled?

[Lonesomebri]

I agree with this original post, oy vey, though... The misunderstood European RVers need a place on the moop map, while the OPer has their doubts, here is a short list of people offering coveted space... though they seem to suggest that the physical space is someone else's responsibility to deliver, not theirs. Almost like they are offering the OP up, without taking in the stranger themselves. This is a do-acracy. Come on Burners, some of you people got a grid that RV could tie in to, a service camp, maybe a meal plan, maybe not a shared vision, but your guests won't care. I expect some offers from posters here to be forwarded as to clear up all this cultural confusion, and provide that space. Give those seekers your email address. Please keep us updated, whoever puts actions to words.

[The Rod]

I mean.. they offered to contribute money (this shit is expensiver than ever), they said they'd be willing to help out with camp duties, and all they want is a camp to park their rv in. Seems pretty straight to the point, they don't need showers or raw vegan meal plans or special treatment or anything. And they could probably use some exposure to what "burning man is really like" by plugging into a community of di-hards. Probably exactly the sort of experience they might be looking for reaching out to the likes of the OP in the first place!

Challenge accepted Brian.

Send em to THREAT.

We'll sort em out.

[Skuzzy61]

Just tossing it out there, but it could also be a second language issue.

along with that, cultural. I've found Europeans just get to the point. No unnecessary fluff.

Wow, that much slack? Because they are from Europe? They want to pay for a good parking place at burning man. They stated it “honestly,” They’ve been twice already, maybe they did notice the lack of atm, grocery store and gift shop, and that they didn’t need to pay for stuff? Can’t they be schooled?

I think you are going a bit overboard. I am with "The Rod" on this one. Instead of jumping off the deep end of the pier, why not just ask them who they camped with before and check with those camps to see how they were?

A little less judgement might go a long way.

[AntiM]

As a theme camp leader, I got this email also. They're hitting all the camps with good placement on the list. I mean, our camp has six people at best, and looking like just four this year. We're in Hushville, the "no generators" village. Who in their right mind would hit ME up for a spot? No one who has any idea what camps they are addressing. They're flinging shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. I didn't even reply, just sent it to my Void of Spam.

[Savannah]

Absolutely not. Nope.

[Elorrum]

I think you are going a bit overboard. I am with "The Rod" on this one. Instead of jumping off the deep end of the pier, why not just ask them who they camped with before and check with those camps to see how they were?

A little less judgement might go a long way.

Sure they have their checkbook out, and it’s an opportunity to recoup some camp’s expenses, if rules and principles mean nothing. I thought we knew better here. The couple in question should learn it’s wrong to just buy a camp parking place at burning man and bypass participation. That is my point. If it’s ok, then it’s finished, and Disney, or some other successful consolidated festival corporation, could probably run it better. Someone should tell them about open camping. Placement should know who is selling parking places.

[Savannah]

I'm kind of interested to know why they think they need a camp.

Anyone else curious?

" . . . and of course help out with camp duties if you wish".

That is a very shady way of saying "we passive-aggressively tie shitty knots."

[Elorrum]

" . . . and of course help out with camp duties if you wish".

That is a very shady way of saying "we passive-aggressively tie shitty knots."

.
Or really not clean the dishes… I read it as, “We’d really prefer to agree on a dollar amount where you will not insist.”

[Skuzzy61]

I think you are going a bit overboard. I am with "The Rod" on this one. Instead of jumping off the deep end of the pier, why not just ask them who they camped with before and check with those camps to see how they were?

A little less judgement might go a long way.

Sure they have their checkbook out, and it’s an opportunity to recoup some camp’s expenses, if rules and principles mean nothing. I thought we knew better here. The couple in question should learn it’s wrong to just buy a camp parking place at burning man and bypass participation. That is my point. If it’s ok, then it’s finished, and Disney, or some other successful consolidated festival corporation, could probably run it better. Someone should tell them about open camping. Placement should know who is selling parking places.

Look, I am not saying you are wrong, and I am not saying I am right. All I am saying is, before we form the lynch mob, maybe asking a few simple questions of the people sending the email is in order.

In principle, I agree, trying to buy a spot at a camp is bad form and should be discouraged.

Now that AntiM has stepped up and told us they are spamming camps, then I am less likely to find favor for them. If they have been to Burning Man twice, then they should already be acquainted with the event. Says to me they have either chosen to ignore any principles or they never bothered looking to start with.

It is a question I would like to see answered from them, rather than assuming the answer.

[Lonesomebri]

No lynch mob. Just healthy skepticism. Hippies can't even comprehend that? "Oh, you used evidence and judged terrible behavior! You're terrible!" Called it on this one. Now which of you benefit of the doubters are asking these misunderstood spammers to join their moop map?

As a camp leader hinted above, maybe, no, I'm sure of it, avoiding the shit thrown at the wall is how camps in good standing get there.

And pointing out that it is in fact shit, a person with that ability, honesty and insight to recognize and say, "that's shit" should be cherished!
No wonder we got the plug and plays....

[The Rod]

what I wanna know is how they ended up with everyones email address to spam multiple members of eplaya...



...or maybe I just feel left out cause I didn't get one

[Skuzzy61]

No lynch mob. Just healthy skepticism. Hippies can't even comprehend that? "Oh, you used evidence and judged terrible behavior! You're terrible!" Called it on this one. Now which of you benefit of the doubters are asking these misunderstood spammers to join their moop map?

As a camp leader hinted above, maybe, no, I'm sure of it, avoiding the shit thrown at the wall is how camps in good standing get there.

And pointing out that it is in fact shit, a person with that ability, honesty and insight to recognize and say, "that's shit" should be cherished!
No wonder we got the plug and plays....

The only way I know to stamp out ignorance is to educate those in error. Not everyone is born a burner. Has anyone contacted these people to let them know what they are doing is suspect/wrong?

Although I have to admit, it is easier to sit back and call people stupid shitheads. Who knows, maybe they are stupid shitheads.

Tell you what, give me their email address and I will contact them. Not to offer them a place to park, but to find out what gives.

[Solutionist]

Hey guys,

When i first moved to the US to go to grad school, (I grew up in India), there was a huge cultural divide, a language/colloquialism barrier, which it took many YEARS to overcome.

In the meantime, i made grievous social faux pas, misunderstood what others actually meant when they used terms which i did not understand, and was very literal in interpreting what was spoken or written.

Now, as a virgin burner, looking for a camp, i find there is a culture which is equally unfamiliar, terms which have meanings different than in the default world, and expectations which are unspoken but which lead to harsh judgment on unsuspecting and likely innocent participants.

I would like to request some openness, seeking of clarification, and suspension of judgment until someone is proven guilty.

I don’t know these folks looking for a spot, but please, can we be openminded, hospitable and supportive as a starting point?

We are all just trying to make things work for everyone and all creatures in the whole entire world, for a long, long time.

The playa is a good place to start.

[Lonesomebri]

Hey guys,



We are all just trying to make things work for everyone and all creatures in the whole entire world, for a long, long time.

The playa is a good place to start.

First you assume these people are ignorant of what they are doing. You go on to tell us to make no assumptions, only those assumptions that you support. Last you assume we all share good honorable intentions to benefit all, as if. I'm giving the original international party people the benefit of the doubt, they aren't ignorant. They asked for what they wanted. Everyone dancing around that is assuming. Why blame culture and language? It's a weird bigotry. These folks asked for a place to park, to plug and play, tap into what they want from a camp, without responsibility. It wasn't confusing. They handled getting airfare and scoring tickets, repeatedly. Why is it so easy to blame culture and language, instead of respect what these international party people asked for? People who can learn multiple languages are very smart, I feel. Not ignorant

So these ignorant schmucks have scored tickets to the most coveted sold out event on Earth, 3 times! Now they're bring an RV and truck with tow capacity. Where did everyone get the idea that these successful and smart guys are confused or misunderstood in any way?

[Elorrum]

They need to understand, in order to protect the spirit of the event, to follow stated rules and requirements of decomodification, that they are wrong to be asking. I’m not calling them assholes. To give them the benefit of the doubt is to say they simply don’t know. They don’t know how wrong and opportunistic and commodifying, and insulting to the principles of the event a spam emailing approach to obtaining a spot, is. For people here to say that it is actually ok because they don’t know is another problem, and compounds my disbelief of “how did we get here.” The solution is to not let them succeed and educate them with any kindness they deserve as to why. My fear is that they will defend their actions the same as they are being defended here.

[The Rod]

what rules are they breaking exactly?

[Skuzzy61]

Lonesomebri, you are making a lot of assumptions. I am not saying they are not correct, but they are assumptions.

It is a situation easily remedied.

Maybe I am being ignorant. Is there something wrong with wanting to have a discovery session with these people?

I am not trying to take a shot at you Lonesomebri, but ignorance is almost always overcome by discovery. Your conclusions are pretty solid based on the limited data, but another set of conclusions can be drawn from the same data. To resolve the conflict, more data is needed. Is there something wrong with wanting to get more data?