Busted by the cops at the burn

[Rob the Wop]

BLM Rangers going out of their way to bust pot smokers.

Y'know, just to play Devil's Advocate (or generally piss off everyone, I have a hard time knowing which I'm intending a lot of the time)- take a look at what the LEOs and BLMs have to put up with. Their job is to make sure that the local and federal laws are followed at Burning Man.

Well, let's look at who they answer to. You, me? Hell no- local and state politicians in the end. Their bosses either are elected or greatly influenced by politicians. Neveda is a state that is still greatly influenced by a "old West" mentality. While they have just recently loosened up on marijuana laws (they used to be fucking outrageously harsh), they are still very conservative (read redneckish) about drugs, "alternate" sexuality, and general freakiness. The politicians have to answer to a generally redneck populus.

Burning Man has the reputation of being exactly what the Neveda "moral majority" finds most offensive. Sure the local government loves the revenue generated, but there is little doubt in my mind that the average local politician doesn't like the idea of being associated with rampant deviant sexual practices and outrageous drug usage (BTW I don't mind though). So they have to publically denounce the drug usage at the festival, which filters down to the local LEOs and BLMs. When reports or stories of this kind of activity hits the public, they are at the bottom of the hill- looking up at the ball of shit rolling to them. The "moral majority" blames the politicians, the politicians blame the local politicians, the local politicians point at the LEOs. They have the dubious honor of being the scapegoats, yet they can't be such assholes that Burning Man leaves or they catch shit for revenue loss.

So- they bust when they can see or smell it. They know they can't bust everyone, but they have to put on an appearance of trying. If they were truely out to bust everyone they could- they would have a number of dope sniffing dogs at the front gates. They would hire undercover cops en force. Trust me, they aren't doing nearly the job I've seen smaller staff do at some concerts I've been to.

[Kinetic]

Rob....good comments but sheesh, don't give 'em any ideas! Next year we could see the regular gate, a LEO inspection gate, then the greeters if we're not careful.

[Piper]

yes marijauna is illegal in the US and Nevada we all know. However, why are our own Rangers enforcing unrealistic laws that support public drunkeness but do not allow for the appropriate use of medical marijauna? Let California law speak for Burning Man whenever possible. Please Rangers do not go out of your way to prosecute pot smokers.

Thank you, Piper for answering this post rationally. I have to admit I almost blew a gasket when I read it and had to get up and walk away before my first ever eplaya post was a flaming diatribe on the Californication of Nevada. The drug laws may be more liberal in CA, but I think one of the reasons that BMan is now in Nevada might be that the "we know what's best for you and must protect you from yourselves" laws in CA are too restrictive for it. Just my humble opinion.

Your welcome, amd as you know I agree, but I could have been a bit better, did not check all my facts and went with assumuptions...hate that,

[THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN]

yes marijauna is illegal in the US and Nevada we all know. .

sorry to say it's diots that feel marijauna should be illegal. plus i thought nevada just passed a law recently making marijauna llegal up to a certain amount?

[Borris]

Isn't possesion of a class A controled substance (such as marichuana) a federal offence? especially when on Federal Land??? BLM are feds, not state/county police, and work on Federal laws not NV / CA / AZ / Whatever laws. am i wrong? (I'm not from the US so i might get all this poly-law system wrong.)

[Kinetic]

Isn't possesion of a class A controled substance (such as marichuana) a federal offence? especially when on Federal Land??? BLM are feds, not state/county police, and work on Federal laws not NV / CA / AZ / Whatever laws. am i wrong? (I'm not from the US so i might get all this poly-law system wrong.)

It is a federal offense, and they will cite you for it. And your right, in most cases Federal Law trumps state law. The observation I had is the feds can charge you under 2 different CFR's or federal laws. One of them allows them to fine you $250, the other is a nasty $1000 fine and a mandatory court appearance if I remember correctly. At BM they charge a lot of people under the 41 CFR ?? law which is the $250 fine and it means they can just let it go. They get their money, you get the shock value, and all is well in the end.

[ubu]

I have to say I'm not sure about how the disposition would be reflected on the citation if paid (guilty or no contest). I would suggest contacting the Central Violations Bureau using the 1-800 number on the white sheet of the citation and asking them.

"Entrepreneurial profession" I don't think so. If money were the object you would be charged with 21 USC 844 which carries a minumum $1000 fine for first offense.

thanks for the commentary brlover. You seem pretty rational and generally thoughtful.

The LEOs pratice enforcement in addition to a host of other duties. Yes,
posession of any controlled substance whether they be meds without a prescription or a substance deemed to have no medical use as the language of schedule one describes is a potential violation of both federal and state law. BLM rangers will be concerned with enforcing federal law. However, it is up to their discretion and their judgement, as well as the amount of other duties they have to perform in their jobs that determines whether they are or are not going to be spying on people in their campsites, staking out and watching the chicks, waiting for a pipe to be lit, etc.

It's ridiculous really, what these guys are doing while on duty on a given night at burning man. the event is mostly self enforced and the people generally get along so much better than any other group of 30k that the leos have little to do but oggle chicks. The told me in fact that they request to be assigned to this gig every year. they get a contact high from it!

It would be interesting to challenge the case that involved our campsite, as one of our party was indeed smoking out of a pipe, but smoking a species of sage and not a controlled substance. However, as the fee was low enough, the court will never get to the bottom of this one.

This is a classic case for the economics of law. There is a paper on findlaw that examines just what the point is at which enough innocent people will pay a violation rather than contest it, that is the money point.
too high and innocents will contest.

Now, bllover is correct. For the LEO's the money is *not* the thing. All money paid to the central violations bureau goes to rather noble and good causes and does not line the pockets of the LEOs. The point for them is statistics, notches on their belts, experience, show of enforcement. and of course, never admitting that they are wrong, or doing something ridiculous when they are spying on people.

they really paused when we told them that this guy was smoking sage.
but we heard you mention the word marijuana they quickly said. listening equipment anyone? just the word marijuana is enough for them to enter our dome without a warrant? it's enough for me to get raging mad just thinking about these guys waiting at my campsite for a half hour staring at the huge boobs on the girls in my dome. what the hell else were they doing?

I think it's pathetic that all that spying equipment was focused on my little campsite, and that I paid for it with tax money and a bm ticket!

We were rigorously polite and non-stereotyping toward the cops and they were kind of shocked by that in turn. At that point, what were we going to do, lose our cool?

By the way, the language on the citation was neither an admission of guilt nor a nolo contendere, so I think it falls in an entirely other category. But that is a question for the legal scholars. I doubt a call to central v b will get you a very articulate response.

[shitmouse]

wonder if they got busted for salvia?? it's legal.
-b

[JonoVision]

Y'know, a closed door or tentflap and a cardboard tube filled with fabric softener sheets to blow smoke through would solve a lot of these problems. Countless college dorm dwellers know that one.

[Kinetic]

I don't smoke but I hate the idea of people spying on me. I built a home built trailer to sleep in and haul gear out there. It's shielded very well with materials to absorb sound along with other spook tricks....and excluding the back door that I screwed up on it worked well. It has an A/C unit that quickly exchanges the inside air so smoke is not a problem....

My point for mentioning it is if your going to do this on the playa, why not come up with a creatively built safe room so you can block the spying LEO's to begin with. This is BM, we build things to fix problems. Build stuff to fight this! There's gotta be answers out there. As I write this I think of the Taosyty camp (No they didn't smoke or do anything bad, they're just a building example) and how they used scaffolding to make a cool base camp with tarps and tents and all kinds of nooks and crannies. A couple more tarp walls, some fans and batteries and power inverters to run them....and you could disperse the smoke, maybe muffle some of the conversation....it's being simplistic but it's an idea that could be expanded easily. And if there's a group of people, plan your camp ahead of time so you can make it difficutl for strangers to walk through the middle of it, and push the spying LEO's back a bit farther so they have to push the equipment a little harder to get ya.

[JezebelinHell]

We had this sweet adorable little boy from New Zealand in my camp (okay, he was like 23 or so, but still little and adorable), and he got arrested during a birthday party, and it ruined the whole Friday of the event for me. He wasn't doing anything stupid or out in the open, and they ended up letting him off with just a ticket, but we all learned a valuable lesson: Don't give weed to drag queens in pot leaf cars. They might very well be under-cover cops.

[Tardis]

"we all learned a valuable lesson: Don't give weed to drag queens in pot leaf cars. They might very well be under-cover cops."

You know, you can live by rules like this.

[Don Muerto]

Lot's of good points so far on this thorny issue. On the one hand, it *is* a bit silly to whine about getting busted when the rules are well known. It is a game you have chosen to play and you lost; -whining about it doesn't change a thing or make you look sympathetic. On the other hand, it *does* suck that our ridiculous drug laws are driving people to hide in 'safe rooms' and other sealed environs just to hit on a little zabby. Marijuana is such a harmless and communal thing that having to be paranoid and locked up to 'enjoy' it just doesn't do it for me.

The one thing I think has yet to be aired in the debate is this:

What choice do the LEO's actually have when it comes to busting people for drugs? Are you aware that for an LEO to witness a crime in progress and *not* do anything about it not only jeopardizes his/her job, but can also lead to criminal charges for the LEO?

Folks, these people signed up to enforce the laws of the land, but they don't make them. They may have, and be willing to grant, a little leeway in what statute you are cited for, but the fact is that if you get up in their grill with a pipe or a pill they are professionally and legally obligated to bust you. Don't put it on them to turn a blind eye and give a wink to your illegal activity when the consequences can come right around and bite them on the ass in a big way.

The anecdotal stories of Gestapo tactics are another matter, but I think simple courtesy and discretion goes a long way towards a peaceful coexistence with the LEO's at BM. Black Rock City is a large place with perhaps the highest per-capita rate of possession and/or intoxication to be found. I see the LEO's behavior as generally culling only the most obvious of offenses; -were they to crack down the fine and incarceration toll would be enormous and the event would end.

Remember too that the leeway an LEO has available to them *is* considerable, and most of what is exercised at BM lies at the very lenient end of the spectrum. The situation could be far worse if they chose to exercise the full range of options availble to them when you are holding drugs.

[JezebelinHell]

But when they dress up in drag and drive around in pot leaf cars busting cute little boys from New Zealand, I consider it excessive.

[Don Muerto]

-With you on that Jezebel. I think using 'bait' is a bad tactic, but I am willing to wager that the majority of fish caught at BM are ones that jump in the boat.

[nymphgonebad]

But when they dress up in drag and drive around in pot leaf cars busting cute little boys from New Zealand, I consider it excessive.

excessive? more like a total travesty of justice, if you ask me.
busting cute little boys for anything is a crime in my book. they're awfully hard to violate when they're behind bars and you're not in the same cell block.

conjugal visit, anyone?

[Tinkerbell]

Under Federal Law, it is legal to have under an ounce of marijuana, for personal use. Don't get me wrong on this, cops still have a right to take it away, just cause they have the athority, now don't go bugging them when the find a little sac, and you are saying it is legal. They don't like that, so they can get you for stoping a cop from his line of duty, or whatever it is called.

And in California, the medical marij. stuff is all bs. I have a licence here, all it states is that it is okay to smoke it, but to get caught with it, is still illegal. So if you get caught, your SOL, They can still take your weed, so on so fourth. You can go to court and whine your eyes out saying he took your weed and you got this paper that says this, they are just gonna laugh, and after all its worth, no jail time, but no weed, and your out a hell of a lot of money for the courts and all the other bs. Just learn to be smart with your usage of weed.

Countless times my camp mates just would pull out a pipe and start smoking, or roll a joint, I was all no no no, your gonna get into trouble. They just said its burning man, no one cares. They said i was a worry wart, and i need to chill out. All i have to say is don't come crying to me when you get caught.

[nymphgonebad]

Under Federal Law, it is legal to have under an ounce of marijuana, for personal use. Don't get me wrong on this, cops still have a right to take it away, just cause they have the athority, now don't go bugging them when the find a little sac, and you are saying it is legal. They don't like that, so they can get you for stoping a cop from his line of duty, or whatever it is called.

And in California, the medical marij. stuff is all bs. I have a licence here, all it states is that it is okay to smoke it, but to get caught with it, is still illegal. So if you get caught, your SOL, They can still take your weed, so on so fourth. You can go to court and whine your eyes out saying he took your weed and you got this paper that says this, they are just gonna laugh, and after all its worth, no jail time, but no weed, and your out a hell of a lot of money for the courts and all the other bs. Just learn to be smart with your usage of weed.

Countless times my camp mates just would pull out a pipe and start smoking, or roll a joint, I was all no no no, your gonna get into trouble. They just said its burning man, no one cares. They said i was a worry wart, and i need to chill out. All i have to say is don't come crying to me when you get caught.

too fucking right, tink. some people think that radical self expression means flaunting their stupidity. too bad for them - if you're stupid enough to get busted in the most tolerant atmosphere in the world, then you deserve whatever you get.

[ubu]

too fucking right, tink. some people think that radical self expression means flaunting their stupidity. too bad for them - if you're stupid enough to get busted in the most tolerant atmosphere in the world, then you deserve whatever you get.

what!!?

the "most tolerant atmosphere in the world"? *You* must be smoking something really strong.


As one gentleman described it, burning man is more heavily policed than a prison yard! It may be tolerant of you shaking a little ass, so what, big deal. Is that why you find it tolerant?

Hell, san francisco in the middle of downtown in the middle of the day is more tolerant than burning man. the amount of spying at burning man exceeds the downtown mall in Washington DC.

When these goofers hide in the dark around campsites for an hour at a time spying on people just hoping to find something to bust them for or to just get their jollies off, I don't call that tolerant, i call that spying, i call that invasive and intolerant. the fact that quite a few morons blazenly used drugs right out in the open and got away with it in no way mitigates the spying and the creeping around!

I like Kinetics thinking. If i do go back to that intolerant atmosphere at black rock city again, I'll bring some seriously bright super powered flashlights and shine em right on their creepy little faces when and if they come stake out my campsite again. and i'll get some level 3 night vision myself and a big old megaphone and if i see the goofers trying to shoot goldfish in a bowl and spy on campsites i'll come up to them and say through the megaphone, "why howdy officers! trying to catch someone misbehaving!" and announce to the neighborhood "there are some cops spying on you!"

I'll be ready if i ever go back. I'm not much of a hider. but I'm extra friendly and plenty confrontational. I'd love to see the goofers jump out of their vehicles and ask me why I shined a kleig light on them. "O, I didn't know you were mr. official cop spy boy, I thought you were just a creep trying to spy on people. Just wanted to know who would park a vehicle with no lights on and just stay in it for an hour!" ha.

By the way tinker, possession of any schedule 1 controlled substance is federally illegal, including marijuana. you can look it up on findlaw.

the real clincher for me was when the feds raided my campsite just because some guy was smoking sage out of a pipe. strych9, can you say my friend deserved to be harrassed for that?! that i deserved to have them rifle through my food and mess up my space for that?

[Jp]

I find it interesting that people can be so allegedly outraged by police conduct, on the one hand, yet also say that it's not worth the effort to challenge it because it's only $250. A truly outraged person fights a battle for the principle involved not because of the possible costs/rewards. If BLM Rangers had to drag their asses into court for several hundred bs hearings, they might consider giving out fewer bs tickets, or not. still complaining about injustice without being willing to take the obvious step of challenging the allegedly wrongful act is kinda silly imho.

just my two cents worth
Jp

[ubu]

I find it interesting that people can be so allegedly outraged by police conduct, on the one hand, yet also say that it's not worth the effort to challenge it because it's only $250.

point taken jp! yeah if i were truly outraged I'd spend a couple thousand bucks on a lawyer and lose a couple of days in court just to tell some cops how to do their jobs better! but the economics are with just letting it go. especially since i did not even get a citation. just a night of hassle.

I'd rather give them hell next year if and when I hit the playa. and I'd rather
let other people know that creepy cops are prowling campsites at brc.

I'm mad mind you. Mad enough to come up with some clever solutions.
Mad enough to discuss it on eplaya. but enough to hire a lawyer? no way.

that's why they call it the money point. place a fine low enough and almost no one will contest. who contests a parking ticket even when they are not in the wrong?

[PJ]

burning man is more heavily policed than a prison yard!

Less sex though.

[JezebelinHell]

But the sex is MUCH better...

[PJ]

But the sex is MUCH better...

Only if you get it. I suspect that it's way easier for the average male to get laid while in prison than at Burning Man.

[Chai Guy]

Just reading the Associated Press article here and found something interesting....

Bureau of Land Management law officers issued 177 citations...

The 102 drug-related citations also were down 25 percent from last year, BLM spokesman Jamie Thompson said Thursday.

In addition to BLM arrests, the Pershing County sheriff's office made five arrests and issued nine citations, up from four citations a year ago.

The arrests included three for sex acts in public, one for trespass and one for failure to appear on a warrant from the Nevada Highway Patrol.

So the BLM gave out 177 tickets vs. Pershing County Sheriffs 9 citations??
WOW!

And really I think a weeklong event where a high (pun intended) porportion of the 33,000 participants are under the influence and LEO citing only 102 of them seems rather low. I also have to speculate on how many of those 102 citations were issued with the aid of night vision goggles, and FLIR (forward looking Infrared Radar), my guess is that "most" of the tickets were given to people being a little less than discrete. If you did get busted, you have my sympathy, but consider it your party tax.

[Jp]

interesting stats, from my experiences and from talking w/ people I expected drug related arrests/citations to be up from last year. I guess that shows how a few isolated events can skew your perception of the whole deal.

Jp

[ubu]

But the sex is MUCH better...

Only if you get it. I suspect that it's way easier for the average male to get laid while in prison than at Burning Man.

if that's true PJ, that's a sad statement not only on the increased policing of both public sex acts and marijuana smoking at burning man, but on the decline of outright saturnalia.

Even as late as the late 90's, Bianca's Smut Shack one example among others used to provide a place for both open public sex, exhibitionism, and hooking up in large numbers, with nary a cop in sight.

I'm not mourning the loss of the old days mind you. to hell with the old days when I've got today to burn. but the burn at brc sure has changed.

I understand that a number of people were searched and busted just outside the gate this year at the end, so they did not make it into those statistics by the way.

[keepthebeat]

yes marijauna is illegal in the US and Nevada we all know. However, why are our own Rangers enforcing unrealistic laws that support public drunkeness but do not allow for the appropriate use of medical marijauna? Let California law speak for Burning Man whenever possible. Please Rangers do not go out of your way to prosecute pot smokers.

Thank you, Piper for answering this post rationally.

I have to admit I almost blew a gasket when I read it and had to get up and walk away before my first ever eplaya post was a flaming diatribe on the Californication of Nevada.

The drug laws may be more liberal in CA, but I think one of the reasons that BMan is now in Nevada might be that the "we know what's best for you and must protect you from yourselves" laws in CA are too restrictive for it. Just my humble opinion.

[precipitate]

> I think one of the reasons that BMan is now in Nevada might be that the
> "we know what's best for you and must protect you from yourselves"
> laws in CA are too restrictive for it. Just my humble opinion.

Like which ones?

No fireworks? Sure, fireworks are legal in NV, but you can't have them at
Burning Man.

Firearms? Sure, firearm laws are more liberal in NV, but you can't have
them at Burning Man.

Helmet laws? Sure, you can ride your motorcycle without a helmet, but
you can't ride it at all at Burning Man.

Honestly, name one thing <i>other</i> than public nudity and drinking in
public (which are both city-by-city things in CA) that you can do at Burning
Man that you can't do in California? Legally, I mean. Men wearing dresses
doesn't count, that's your social-acceptance radar kicking in, not a
question of legality.

I'm sure there are some, but I'm having a hard time thinking of them.

[keepthebeat]

My original post re supporting tolerance for marijauna use has stimulated much controversary. I do recognize the difficult position Rangers are in as BM occurs on Nevada soil and is watched by the Feds. It is funny that somehow mentioning that medical marijauna and California law should speak for BM has been interpreted as the Californification of BM and Nevada. Now correct me if I am wrong: didn't BM start on a California Beach in San Francisco, ie Baker's Beach and only became relocated as the the Feds(military) decided that it was too big for the Presidio. As I see it BM is the child of California culture. This is not to say that some people in Nevada do not embrace the BM concept. I find it interesting though that there appears to be so much objection to marijauna use by Burners. Nevada has legal prostitution and gambling, smoking inside and regularly ignors speed limit enforcement. How is marijauna more harmful than these other vices. I also must reveal that I am a physician and the truth is that there are some true benefits to marijauna use and that the risks are as yet not completely understood. There is evidence both of the negative effects on lungs but no large trials that have conclusively shown an increased incidence of lung or head and neck cancer, emhysema, asthma, heart disease etc. On the other hand, the benefits for glaucoma are well known. However, the multiple subsriptions for treatment of depression, anxiety, chronic pain etc are not supported by the literature. The reason we do not know is that people are still so emotional about marijuana which prevents objective evaluation. The time has come when we must forget our biases and really study pot. This is finally starting to happen as decriminalization occurs and both patients and researchers are not forced into hiding. In fact one trial in young military recruits has not shown any increase in mortality among pot smokers. On the other hand, multiple studies have shown that second hand smoke(think Nevada casinos) kills, that speeding increases highway fatalities especially in combination with that legal drug alcohol. Furthermore, studies on marijauna and driving have actually supported the notion that smoking pot makes one more cautious and less likely to speed, not that I support driving and being stoned. Pot smokers are not criminals. Perhaps, the real criminals are the courts that have enforced unjust laws which incarcerate pot smokers. Remember that laws change and that women and blacks previously could not vote until those laws were changed. Remember that this country was founded on the challenges to the laws of Mother England. Positive social change does occur when the status quo and existing laws are challenged. BM should be a forum for positive social change.