Who is a burner?

andi · Post by **andi** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:16 pm

Who is a burner?

This is a question that to most people seems simple, surely a burner is someone who has been to Burning Man at least once, right? Well there are some competing opinions you might not be aware of, and these opinions are not mine but come from various burners I have talked to or whose opinions I have read or ones related to me. Here are some versions I am aware of of "who is a burner?"

1. Anyone who has been to the playa prior to 1997. (not a widely held opinion as I am aware)
2. Someone who has been to Burning Man at least once.
3. The above plus newbies preparing to go.
4. The above plus people who share our "community values"/vibe/spirit/ whatever you want to call it, yet haven't made it to the playa. I have even heard people of this opinion say that you don't have to actually go to actually go to BRC to be a burner, and indeed that there are those of this belief who have no wish to go to the playa at all.
5. Add your own defintion

Can you not go to Burning Man and still be a burner? What about the MANY people who are totally in love with Burning Man, all their friends have gone, they Participate in their Regional community, go to Regional events, but they can't make it to the playa for whatever reason? How far does Radical Inclusion go? Or does Burning Man exist in two separate but connected universes, that being BRC and the Regional Network? Does that sense of community that we all love only live in the Black Rock Desert? How should those two universes be connected or should they be connected at all?

(Disclaimer: This posting stems from my personal observations and discussions with many many people who have gone to Burning Man, Regional Contacts, and Project staff in my 7 trips to the playa since 1996, and in the 2+ years as a Regional Contact. I am speaking for myself and NOT for anyone else, furthermore I have taken upon myself to do this, the Project has no hand in this. This question is meant to enlighten and help bring us together as a whole community, not as a means to pigeonhole people or divide the community. When I find people of divergent opinions I love to get them together and see what happens, must be the prankster in me. Plenty of you believe that defining elements and principles of Burning Man is antithetical to the event and your experience. It is my opinion that with a growing population we either continue getting more organized or the event will slowly die, and defining who we are is one of the most basic elements of organization. This is NOT a discussion about whether there should even be organization, and I am sure many of you have interesting ideas for different types of organizations, but perhaps those are topics for other threads. The focus here is simple, who is a burner?)

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:57 pm

I consider the term "burner" just short of insulting, and certainly more than a bit narrow-minded. Most people I know don't define themselves in terms of Burning Man. I don't use it, nor do I routinely use "newbie" or "yahoo". Some of the best people I've worked with on projects were first-timers, fwiw.

Silver 2 · Post by **Silver 2** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:09 pm

I personally believe that you covered it with:

people who share our "community values"/vibe/spirit/ whatever you want to call it,

As for:

Does that sense of community that we all love only live in the Black Rock Desert?

Hardly, with smaller groups I believe the 'sense of community' is greater. Most of the interactions on the Playa are transatory and while great and lasting friendships are created there the local groups with their mail lists, happy hours, parties and general interaction fosters friendships and feelings of kinship (sometime ago I related a 2003 Christmas toast; it was, 'To the family we choose'). I only really know my own local group but have heard much the same from several others who live in various parts of the country.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:51 pm

The opposite of a burnee?

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:36 pm

"Burner": A strange and wonderful creature who has been to the playa and been infected with an inordinate and irrepressible desire to return and contribute more to the magical event known as BurningMan. Also, a step beyond "Newbie" and the polar opposite of "Yahoo".

my 2 cents : )

philosopher · Post by **philosopher** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:30 am

I like Tiahaar's definition, especially its recognition of the importance of actually being there, of getting to Mecca at least once.

Even though I had participated in local local burner events before ever going to Burning Man, and shared the community's values such that my first encounter with BRC really felt like a coming home, I found that time on the playa to be an irreplaceable initiation. It seems to me that anyone who comes through it unchanged--whether being there for the first time or, come to think of it, for the umpteenth time--just hasn't been participating.

How does this relate to organization? I think it means in part that the regionals will always be a distant echo of the real thing, no matter how enjoyable they might be.

I think it also means that radical inclusion isn't real or completed until the impulse is reciprocated. This is to say that the Being of a burner is essentially dependent upon the existence of other burners, that is, the burner community. And this community comes into its own emergent Being by and through the art of participation.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 pm

I like Tiahaar's definition, especially its recognition of the importance of actually being there, of getting to Mecca at least once.

Yeah, but just getting to Mecca does not a good muslim make.

philosopher · Post by **philosopher** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:54 pm

Yeah, but just getting to Mecca does not a good muslim make.

Which makes the logical point that the converse of my original position does not automatically hold, but notice that I never suggested merely getting to the playa was sufficient participation. Appearances lead me to believe that lots of people show up with no intention of ever contributing anything except MOOP or POOP (People Out Of Place).

Tiahaar's definition, which sets the context for my earlier post, had a lot more going on in it than you seem to be acknowledging. Was there something about it that you found inadequate or misleading?

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:02 pm

It's what family members call you behind your back after you just couldn't shut up about your latest BM project.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:48 am

Tiahaar's definition, which sets the context for my earlier post, had a lot more going on in it than you seem to be acknowledging. Was there something about it that you found inadequate or misleading?

Not really. I think you're reading more into my post than is actually there. Kinda like what cha' did with Bob's reply a few days back.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:56 am

Badger wrote:
I like Tiahaar's definition, especially its recognition of the importance of actually being there, of getting to Mecca at least once.
Yeah, but just getting to Mecca does not a good muslim make.

and further, i get called hajji (the term of respect for muslims who've made the trek to mecca) but i'm not muslim and i've not been near mecca.

in fact, i got called hajji this morning.

oops, i guess the 'been to the playa/mecca' comparison just collapsed... or perhaps Tiahaar's point was weakened.

phooey on this terms shit. i don't give a crap. we spend way too much energy on it as a community. and it's not like it's ever going to be resolved.

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:28 am

Hmm, and I don't recall a "Yahoo Bypass" around the playa.

[Footnote: there is a road called the Christian Bypass around Mecca, so that those who are not Muslim may travel in the area and not approach the city.]

Silver 2 · Post by **Silver 2** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:41 am

Hmm, and I don't recall a "Yahoo Bypass" around the playa.

[Footnote: there is a road called the Christian Bypass around Mecca, so that those who are not Muslim may travel in the area and not approach the city.]

Now there is an idea, as you drive into the city you see signs with arrows, 'This way to the naked chicks', 'Free Beer', 'Dancing all day all night'. The arrows lead you to the back of beyond -- kind of like the walk in camping but on the other side. There, is a nicely laid out area surrounding a largish dome (so it's missing a few parts) that is packed with cheap ass sound equipment (generally recovered from dumpsters) and, this is the important part --- kegs of cheap beer. Now, we would have to replace the kegs once a day but get 'em out there, get 'em drunk, give them loud shit to listen to and that's where 90% will stay. Ok, I lied about the naked chicks, sue me, you should have brought your own. Hey, this could be a money maker for art projects, I'll donate $100, any donations over costs could go to the art fund, or to the DPW for the extra effort. Might save some cleanup time too, more junk in one area rather than scattered all over.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:50 am

is this thread where a bunch of phonies post there "i know it all"

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:54 am

Not me.

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:59 pm

What' so phony about knowing stuff and/or sharing experiences? Be pretty adrn boring otherwise IMHO.

(I do happen to know everything, but my memory is wonky.)

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:48 pm

At SF Decompression this year, I chatted briefly with someone who ended up saying that he wanted to believe that I had been to the playa three times but --well I forget his justification. Too many people had pretended to be cool and he was burnt out on it I ugees. Als, 3 sheets to the wind. It left me with nothing to say, I'm not going ot plead with someone to believe me when I 'm telling the truth, and I've long since given up pretending to have done things in order to impress people--I dont pull it off well and when I'm found out where am I?

Burner is just another term of convienence.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:06 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:...Burner is just another term of convenience.

So's "Frisco"... and "nigger"... and "'Merkin".

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:13 pm

i have been to BM three time. each time as i left with a plan to make it better for myself. hopeing other will injoy my efforts.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:15 pm

What's a burner? That's easy!

Anybody who agrees with me.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:37 pm

Bob wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:...Burner is just another term of convenience.
So's "Frisco"... and "nigger"... and "'Merkin".

Dang, I don't know of another term for Merkin.

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:35 pm

Who is a burner? Jeeze, anyone like your's truly that likes setting shit on fire and blowing things up. In a social environment with plenty of yahoos to fetch me some more beer or a glass of wine and then they can have a heaping helping of shut-the-fuck-up. Oh, and partiers who, as blyslv so aptly noted, agree with me. I'm up, pull the ladder up.

Doc

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:17 pm

the good Dr has spoken.

philosopher · Post by **philosopher** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:15 am

Isotopia wrote:
Tiahaar's definition, which sets the context for my earlier post, had a lot more going on in it than you seem to be acknowledging. Was there something about it that you found inadequate or misleading?
Not really. I think you're reading more into my post than is actually there. Kinda like what cha' did with Bob's reply a few days back.

O tempora! O mores! Interpretation is always excessive! Can't be helped!

Love,
philosopher

P.S. To stay with Isotopia's words a moment longer...can it be said of Burning Man that for some of us it becomes successively more than is actually there through creative participation? And then, wouldn't that "more" have thereby become in some important sense actual?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:36 am

Pls rephrase that so doubleplusunburners may understand your rule.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:38 am

...can it be said of Burning Man that for some of us it becomes successively more than is actually there through creative participation? And then, wouldn't that "more" have thereby become in some important sense actual?

That's just the Valium talking.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:55 pm

philosopher wrote:P.S. To stay with Isotopia's words a moment longer...can it be said of Burning Man that for some of us it becomes successively more than is actually there through creative participation? And then, wouldn't that "more" have thereby become in some important sense actual?

No. Because if it wasn't what it was when we were sure it wasn't, then it couldn't ever be what it was we thought it isn't.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:55 pm

being a burner is just like being in love...or being the One...no one can tell you you are...you just know...but doc pyro was pretty close...if you like burning shit down or blowin shit up...you might be a burner

-Duke

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:35 pm

if you like burning shit down or blowin shit up...you might be a burner

Or an Iraqi insurgent

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:47 am

Flag Burner

http://www.celestialpathways.com/