Bigger is Better? Building a camp to fail.

[Lonesomebri]

Bigger Is Better:
A Cautionary Tale about building a camp to fail.

It wasn't the first, it won't be the last. 747 2022.

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After the Man fell last year, and the party was over, on social media I saw an appeal go out asking for help striking a camp. Still out in the dust, lots of stuff to pack, placed camp, outlived their welcome from BLM, citations and fines imminent, dedicated to removing their stuff, willing to pay for help, help needed.

I also heard they were good neighbors, had activities, part of the community, many happy campers. Money available to pay for needed help. Everything done right. No bad intentions.

Yet there they were, in a bad spot. Beyond their plans and immediate abilities.

So, how does that happen?
To me, it writes itself.

Many pieces to the puzzle, plenty unknowns, but the pieces fit. My theory: It was good decent Burners who want a bigger camp, which has a huge appeal. Got a good thing going on? Make it bigger. I got a whole theory on scale to size of intent, going for small camaraderie, or going for large project, how the number of "participants" affects the whole spirit if the camp. What are you trying to do with those people? Why are they needed? The endless quest for growth, versus sustainability. But that's for a different rant.

Big camp, big membership, big infrastructure, big expenses, big expectations, big responsibilities, big dues, all to accomplish... A big camp.

More members are needed to pay for the growth and expectations. An endless growth. Offering comforts to appeal to more camp participants. No longer is there a dirty desire for really camping in the dusty desert, fighting and losing to the elements, the occasional bougie treat, facing a harsh environment with weirdo pals, fueled with creativity and freedom. It's about getting a BIG camp set up on playa and filling it with strangers. Bigger is better becomes the over-riding goal. Lots of nice people paying to join with the comfort of guaranteed water and electrical, ac, amenities, nice location, and that's the focus. Nothing wrong with that. But not my thing.

Even with the proper acclimation and decent desires of the participants, many people in the camp are not dedicated to the camp, it's continued success or failure, they might feel that paying dues and doing shifts covers the contractual agreement. The camp, as any group, evolves different classes of participants. From a band of mutual friends, to a complex enterprise with various positions of leadership and customers. The balance shifts. A minority responsible for the camp. For the majority it's something they already paid for.

Eventually there are 5 determined and dedicated people running the camp, which they see as a great success, because it has so many members paying dues, a big footprint, good placement, they deliver on playa. But at some point, maybe that balance by those 5 isn't enough to offset what the enterprise has grown and grown and grown into over time: the bulk of the camp.

Who knows, maybe they invited in some festival folks they never met, with an RV, offering dues money for a good guaranteed spot on the playa, but stating right out front that they have no intention at all of helping the camp. Heck, I know camp leads who would snap that up. That's your camp? The meat and potatoes? That's a recipe for disaster. And, in contrast, I know small camps who don't see that as "the way".

Becoming a commercial enterprise, once a camp reaches a certain, large, size makes sense, and is the way to go, if taking that way. See: Sound Camps.

But if it's not full blown AirbnBurn, still the semblance of a camp, at first the dedicated can outweigh default. Five of my/your nutjob friends cleaning up a mess for 10 is one thing. Doable. I could count on my core friends. The worthless shitheads were kept in check by my comrades. But I pushed it to the boundary of what we could handle, not for us, but for the camp.

Now change scale to 50 paid campers, and 5 do or die. Maybe 50 campers who paid for a private Porto, meal plan, evening dj serenade, and don't give one shit what happens on playa once they are shuttled out... and 5 buddies staying to make it right.

And if help is needed, good luck getting rational people to change travel plans, to sacrifice money they thought they already paid, to help clean up the mess of 30 others. The dedicated still know they have to deliver, or remove everything, as the case may be, for the sake of the camp. While the others left for home, their real one, the dedicated remained and sent out an appeal for help.

So, pretty straight forward, that's how a big placed camp with lots of involved people and good Burners in charge, with community activities, might, depending on the math end up after the Burn needing outside help with the camp take down, and willing and able to pay for outside help.

Zero bad intentions. The event has led to this dynamic. It'll happen again. But... It wasn't supposed to be like this.

[some seeing eye]

Good observation!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_ ... eat_Powers

More people, you need more food. More food, more colonies. More colonies and long supply chains, more military. More military, more cost. Collapse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month

The Mythical Man Month applies to camps too.

[Elorrum]

More people, you need more food. More food, more colonies. More colonies and long supply chains, more military. More military, more cost. Collapse.

Many good points.

“Money available to pay for needed help.” IAMU 2022, offered and tried to recruit help with a pay scale for degree of sweat, or skill required. The very next day, they said they really didn’t have the budget, but would try to reimburse some gas money. Camp flower power 2014 told campers that a cleanup crew had been hired.

“widening gyre” comes to mind. The few in the core were decimated by covid as well… who could pull it off in those reduced numbers?

I think “how can we guarantee we always get tickets?” Figures somewhere in there too. Eternal burners need to be at the top of the steward’s pyramid in their own camp, or be in servitude at a returning guaranteed level. The increased number of theme camps in ten years is amazing. Also a large theme camp comprised of people with no capacity to remove trash, that need bikes, and honestly feel they’ve spent an adequate amount to have all these services provided, and ask, “how come they just aren’t?” Well, I think we see how that is working out.

Is it possible that all the solo burners who no longer can get tickets, really did contribute best by volunteering, finding regional community projects, and helping with art builds during the year between burns, when their tickets had no connection to those activities? And they were really good at managing all their own shit, packing their own trash plus extra out in their little solo vehicles? Just a thought.

I had a memory of some studies on what the number of broken windows mean in an urban environment. Apparently there are theories and fallacies. One: “Under the broken windows theory, an ordered and clean environment, one that is maintained, sends the signal that the area is monitored and that criminal behavior is not tolerated.” I think we are teetering into a territory of a lot more broken windows.

[Papa Bear]

So, I was neighbors with this camp - literally sleeping perhaps 10 yards from their border.

I didn’t interact with them a ton, but I never got the sense that they were anything but sincere, nor did I get any sense that they had a bunch of people added just to fill out budget. There are certainly camps that do that, but I’m not convinced this was one of them.

Aside from the scaffolding, it honestly didn’t even seem like they were doing anything particularly big. If anything, it just kind of felt like a hodgepodge of completely unrelated offerings from a bunch of people who just happened to be camped on the same plot of ground. Everyone seemed involved, just uncoordinated and pointed in their own directions. My gut at the time said they’d bitten off more than they could chew, but I would never have imagined it playing out the way it did.

I’ve since spoken with a friend with close ties to some people in the camp, who basically confirmed that they are good people who just don’t recognize how awful they are at organizing. It sounds like they typically pull it off, but have to put a lot more effort in to compensate for the organizational issues (and the yearly “brain drain” from people burning out as a result). This time around, though, they had a wave of COVID sweep through the camp, leaving them severely short on strike crew as well.

I’ve got to be honest - I admire the dedication of those that remained and were willing to go to such lengths to try to get it all taken care. But if even half of what I surmised above is true, I hope this acts as a wake up call to stop, scale back, focus on just one thing, and find someone with real planning skills.

[Papa Bear]

I think “how can we guarantee we always get tickets?” Figures somewhere in there too.

I have no idea if that was a contributing factor for this camp, but it is definitely an issue in general. There are absolutely camps out there that exist because people saw “having a theme camp” as the best strategy for getting tickets.

[Lonesomebri]

Yes, all I heard about this particular camp was good, from people there. That is why it's vexing, a "mystery" as to the end trouble. They definitely weren't some scammers, a pnp, or bad players. I can identify with their position totally. Sympathetic, not hostile.

This particular camp really isn't the issue, just a recent example. A parable, a composite, doesn't even have to be a particular camp.

A bad camp, no need to wonder why they would suck. Bad intentions lead to bad results. But here were good Burners, good intentions, backed with hard work and dedication. How could that lead to unintended negative results?

Again, everything I heard, they were an asset to BRC. These people didn't bail, so I can't say they failed. It's just a learning experience for all of us.

[Elorrum]

Case by case, I really am trying to be less damning of failures. Committing to a larger camp, and then having to populate it with a growing percentage of unknowns who could get tickets must be a trick. Coming from across the country year after year, having to reconstruct a camp from a storage unit, or shipping container. I couldn’t do it. Does the camp application encourage over reaching in some way to be successful? High concept, large draw, big interactivity?

It’s crazy that so many feel compelled to go camping in the desert, when they really don’t like the desert, or camping. This fashion fad should pass eventually?

Ha! I liked dusty camping. I lived for the “bougie treat”. I kept my eyes open for it all year, The ta da! item pulled out very very late when someone said in a way that indicated wishful impossibility, “Man, I wish I had a…”

[Papa Bear]

Does the camp application encourage over reaching in some way to be successful? High concept, large draw, big interactivity?

No. Placement has actually made it clear that they aren’t looking for bigger, more expensive, more whatever. It isn’t an arms race, and they don’t want it to be one.

What they want is unique and memorable interactivity (often phrased as “bring the weird”, though it doesn’t have to be weird to be unique and interesting). As a specific example, they talked about bar camps - if I came and had a drink in your camp, would my experience there be something I would remember and tell my friends about after the event?

Now, they do say that everyone in camp needs to be an active contributor to the camp’s interactivity (so, for example, you shouldn’t be adding members you don’t need just to boost the budget). They also say that *if* a camp has a high population, it should be doing something that’s only achievable with that number of people.

That’s really all about “no spectators” and “no plug n plays”, but maybe some organizers are planning it all backwards, I.e. “we want to do this awesome thing that takes 20 people to build and run, but we need 100 people to make the budget work, so let’s add amenities to attract them and find a bunch of low effort stuff those extra 80 people can do”.

[motskyroonmatick]

Camps are definitely encouraged to be bigger. You get more tickets that way! Also what is it going to be? Radical Self Reliance or group buying bigger conveniences with your 4 neighbor camps?

I'm sticking with Radical Self Reliance.

Yeah we ran our whole interactive power needs with Solar and no we can't get more space for the array.

I may not have had enough sleep.

Maybe I am right to be grumpy.

What? You ran a welder off of Solar? Damn Right I did and I'll do it again!

[Lonesomebri]

Yeah. This is like therapy to me. Some simpatico feedback. Like said, this really isn't about one camp, as I first indicated with the 747 photo, though, to be honest, it's mostly about me. My ideals and failures, my Burner friends, my old camps.

A Burn friend, who was familiar with this year's example, and I were discussing, and he expressed puzzlement over the predicament. "They were a good camp with lots of people...?" Yeah buddy, just like yours.

So this is about me, more than about some camp from last year. I never wanted to run a camp, and only thought of being in one inorder to maybe eat food daily while out there. I just wanted to Burn, baby. What is it you wanna do? That's the mystery.

So the desire for a big camp is not my thing. As Just Joe taught me, and himself, go small. Why not? Again, what are you doing with all those people?

Well, like said in this thread: Get placed, get tickets, get camp dues, get amenities, get a meal plan, get work assignments, get a generator, get hierarchy, get video conferencing, get fund raising, get that playa photo of yourself with 75 really cool people you don't know.

Also, I see, it's a dick waving contest, a pissing match, being bigger to be bigger, being the big noise on the block. Running a big show. Some of this is 24 hour festival party people thinking. Not -let's camp in the desert and blow shit up thinking. I want to hang with my friends in camp, they want a photo with 75 strangers, etc, etc.

My favorite year? 4 of us in camp. A unit. We got kicked out of the Temple, as a unit, as a camp.

[Papa Bear]

Camps are definitely encouraged to be bigger. You get more tickets that way!

Not in terms of percentage. Doubling the number of people in your camp doesn't mean you'll get double the ticket allotment - there's a good chance you'll get less.

Further, if placement sees that you don't really have as many members as you claim to, or feels that you aren't offering enough interactivity to justify those higher numbers, you might well see your allotment cut dramatically.

You ran a welder off solar? My hat's off to you.

[motskyroonmatick]

Camps are definitely encouraged to be bigger. You get more tickets that way!

You ran a welder off solar? My hat's off to you.

I'm pretty familiar with the workings of Placement. I believe large camps even though they may get a percentage less vs total population of their camp of Stewards Sale Invites they have more elbow room on how to use those tickets and that access than smaller camps. Kind of what is the possible leverage you have with 50 invites vs 11? Anyway I have a chip on my shoulder concerning big camps and how having them as direct neighbors has always been a burden to my average sized camp.

Thanks!---Solar is expensive but it is quiet and smells just like Playa. It takes a passionate and knowledgable person to pull it off but hot damn it was awesome to run all our interactivity off of solar. From the Welder to the 24/7 ceiling fan in the bar and everything in-between.

[Elorrum]

Thanks!---Solar is expensive but it is quiet and smells just like Playa.

Best statement.
The noise and smell of generators used to be something that people were concerned about. When’s the last time anyone here posted about a baffle box, or wondered about the impact of noise and exhaust at all? Basic campground courtesy, (basic camping, period) is not a part of Burning Man as far as I can see, any longer.

[The Rod]

Everyone wants to go to burning man and for there not to be loud stinky generators but they still want ice cream and flame effects and lasers. Solar panels are great optics but its really just outsourcing your carbon production to someone else. Sure you can run a camp/welder/air conditioner on some chunks of lithium and chinese photovoltaics but can you build a city with it? Try getting HEAT and DPW to abandon fossil fuels.

If you wanted to camp in the black rock desert without all the cognitive dissonance you have pretty much the entire summer to do so. It's generator free 50 weeks out of the year!

[Elorrum]

Try getting HEAT and DPW to abandon fossil fuels.
If you wanted to camp in the black rock desert without all the cognitive dissonance you have pretty much the entire summer to do so. It's generator free 50 weeks out of the year!

So extreme! And contrary? I’m only saying I don’t want exhaust and a loud motor next to my tent, and appreciate a considerate neighbor in that regard.

[The Rod]

Sorry. I’m still a little worked up over the push for “sustainability” and it bled over into this thread. Shitty neighbors suck, whether it’s non-stop EDM or an inconsiderately placed and unmuffled generator.

And yes, Contrary and Extreme are my middle names if it hasn’t become clear to you yet

[Elorrum]

I’m still a little worked up over the push for “sustainability.”

I get it. The doublespeak is piling up. Was it Token or Cryptofishist who said “it’s a camping trip in the desert not the redemption of the Western world?” A floor polish AND a desert topping.

[burner von braun]

It was Fishy I believe. I was reminiscing about that quote just yesterday.

I think it was...

"It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world"

[fastgaz]

OP is just speculating - pulling stuff out of thin air, not knowing anything about the camp. I know people in the camp, visited their camp multiple times, and rode on the plane multiple times, and OP's speculation is completely wrong. More than wrong. As in half of what he/she wrote is not just wrong, it's the opposite.

The camp started with a vision. A huge vision. It was always intended to be big, from the very start because you need a big camp to create the vision. It was built to succeed.

It was fairly well organized, actually. Their canteen ran very smoothly, their scrum board, which was a huge whiteboard in the dining area, was very detailed and made sense. They had security guards, they enforced capacity limits, they had safety protocols in place. They had detailed duty rosters, and the daily briefing were like 20 or 30 minutes long, outlining the logistics for the day.

Were they exclusive? Yes - look at all the FB posts complaining they couldn't get on the plane.

Were they full of beautiful people? Yes, I met at least one Playboy model.

Was it expensive? Yes. I forget the exact dues, but I think it started at $2K, and went up from there, depending on how many work hours you committed to.

But most importantly - it was built to succeed, so did it? Yes. They ran into problems post the burn but they got a freakin 747 onto the playa.

The problem I think was not the size of the camp. Far from it. It was that... it's very hard to drag a 747 around in the desert. Surprise! I think they did the best they could.

[The Rod]

yikes lol

[ygmir]

It was Fishy I believe. I was reminiscing about that quote just yesterday.

I think it was...

"It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world"

agreed, I think it was Fishy. She penned a few gems over the years...

[Papa Bear]

OP is just speculating - pulling stuff out of thin air, not knowing anything about the camp

The OP was not referencing a 747, but rather a camp from 2022 that had a lot of trouble with strike.

As for the 747, it did *not* succeed. Success bringing a camp, art, or mutant vehicle is not measured solely by whether you get it to the playa. You also have to remove it on time.

I'm not sure what you mean by it being "exclusive", but if that means anything other than "not letting more people on when safe capacity is reached, regardless of how attractive/influential/moneyed they are", then IMO that's a failure as well.

[The Rod]

of all the the names someone could have thought up for a resurrected jumbo jet carcass, they managed to successfully pick the least imaginative name ever

[Lonesomebri]

Maybe an interesting time to revisit this thought, what with the current "too many" cheap ticket Apocalypse. Lots of camps with "too many" tickets. Yet there were people trying to buy regular tickets during the regular sale who could not get a ticket then, while waisting time online.

And, yeah, it's camping in the desert. Some people think that needs 24 hour generators going, huge camp fees to pay for the huge expectations, etc etc etc. Let me tell you, I've camped in the desert. I didn't need any of that.

[motskyroonmatick]

Maybe an interesting time to revisit this thought, what with the current "too many" cheap ticket Apocalypse. Lots of camps with "too many" tickets. Yet there were people trying to buy regular tickets during the regular sale who could not get a ticket then, while waisting time online.

And, yeah, it's camping in the desert. Some people think that needs 24 hour generators going, huge camp fees to pay for the huge expectations, etc etc etc. Let me tell you, I've camped in the desert. I didn't need any of that.

Hell, Minimal fee+bar contribution and less than 8 hours total time of work in the interactivity requirement camps are having a hard time recruiting. If I didn't find it so fucking hilarious I'd be crying. I'm still sitting on tickets that trolls, pannickers and easily swayed people are doing their best to crash prices of. Good Times! Smiles around here! Long live The Party

[Jackass]

Maybe an interesting time to revisit this thought, what with the current "too many" cheap ticket Apocalypse. Lots of camps with "too many" tickets. Yet there were people trying to buy regular tickets during the regular sale who could not get a ticket then, while waisting time online.

And, yeah, it's camping in the desert. Some people think that needs 24 hour generators going, huge camp fees to pay for the huge expectations, etc etc etc. Let me tell you, I've camped in the desert. I didn't need any of that.

Never since the event started selling out tickets have I seen so many tickets for sale so soon, without fees or below face value. Usually none of this happens until this week through gates opening, should be interesting. $1500 face value is out the window by a long shot.