Strike back against BLM fascism!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:23 pm

I am interested in gathering accounts of illegal searches, strongarm tactics, and other stories indicative of the harassmant of Burning man participants over the last several years by the BLM. I will compile these and release at least an edited version on a site devoted to exposing this ugly side of the Department of the Interior. If you want to do something make your voice heard.Perhaps the quantity of the stories will add up to a powerful statement. I will withhold names if you wish.
I would also like to know the names of BLM officials involved in formulating the 'law enforcement' mode of interactivity with the BM participants rather than the 'steward of the land' mode more appropriate for their jobs. Their tactics deserve a reaponse, perhaps a letter writing campaign of complaints. If a large number of written complaints by BM participants were made part of the public record some foundation for future change may be laid.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:30 pm

Why the fuck would you want to do THAT? BLM pretty much LIKEs Burning Man ... also, I hear most of the charges from last year's events were not filed by BLM from by the local county and most of those were dropped. Jesus, dude, why would you want to fuck with them and possibly make things WORSE? I don't see how doing what you propose would help anything, except maybe make YOU feel better.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:45 pm

"I hear most of the charges from last year's events were not filed by BLM from by the local county and most of those were dropped."

This is thus more of a harassment effort than one of strict Law Enforcement. They take our money and then pull guns on us for having a pipe in our car. They then conduct area searches on surrounding camps to see what they can find. How can this be considerd acceptable?

"Jesus, dude, why would you want to fuck with them and possibly make things WORSE?"

If there is a pattern of civil rights abuses taking place then it deserves to have a paper trail. Illegal searches and 'Big Brother' monitoring of behavour are not what people, especially those who go out of their way to be isolated from society, should experience. As it is people out in the empty playa are subject to as much surveillence as if you were in a prison yard. This is what our precious 'Tempory Autonomous Zone' has come to.

When incidents like that quoted below (from an earlier E-Playa message) happen people deserve to know about it. Letters complaining about gestapo tactics and those who single out BRC for harassment just might mean something when some legal day of reckoning arrives. There are names to be dug up, and letters to be written.

"In our case, at least the 2nd incident, the officers were clearly taking great pleasure in citing us (and threatening far worse), even though we were not giving them any trouble whatsoever. My son and I were in the group and the minute I asked whether he had consented to the search they were conducting of his pack, I was immediately separated from the rest of the group and taken to their electric cart for multiple searches. When one of our group asked the perfectly legitimate question whether he was free to leave, the cop threatend to tackle "you mortherfucker" and said "you won't be the first asshole I've tackled today." He seemed like a twisted little kid on Christmas morning, he was having so much fun."

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:01 pm

Wake me up when it's over.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:03 pm

seconded, geekie.

*shudder*

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:12 pm

This is thus more of a harassment effort than one of strict Law Enforcement. They take our money and then pull guns on us for having a pipe in our car. They then conduct area searches on surrounding camps to see what they can find. How can this be considerd acceptable?

Well, um, for starters what you're copping to is illegal under ths current state and federal laws. Burning Man does not condone such activities (read the web site) and supports and adheres to all county, state and federal laws. Such adherence is one of the main coningencies of having the permit granted to hold the event.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:56 pm

So you want someone who is just doing their job to just look the other way? I work for the same department (DOI) and saw nothing that happened that wasn't blatant and asked for. A little common sense and discretion go a long way. I talk to people every day who think they can be stupid and get away with it.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:24 pm

Flibidyjib,
1: There are several LEO agencies represented on the playa. Are you positive that the officers involved in these tactics are BLM?
2: That being said why the specific focus on BLM?

Hunch: You're targeting the wrong group and you should be taking a long hard look at the local sheriffs and deputies instead of the BLM. The Feds don't want to mess with petty crap, and they don't need to harass you. If you fuck up on a Federal charge they will get you, they know how to make things stick, and they rarely have a need to rough you up. I bet you'll end up hearing about the Pershing County deputies and asshole sheriff being the source of the problems you referred to.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:16 am

What we have here is just someone with a personal grudge who's coloring the facts in his own favor in the incident he personally experienced...I'll lay down ten to one that he was being idiotic and got busted, just like everyone else who gets busted out there. Smacks of a persecution complex to me. Didn't he read the reports that drug arrests were way down last year?

If the only reason you're going to Burning Man is so you can take drugs, please don't invite yourself back.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:32 am

May I add that bandying about the word "fascism" doesn't win you a lot of friends on this board.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:26 am

I was going to say something of that nature, Fishie.. thanks for saying it for me... I'll second that...

"This is what our precious 'Tempory Autonomous Zone' has come to. "

It might just be me, but it seems that the Burn has kind of grown out of the TAZ phase... and I agree with RG (no, really, i do! I can hardly believe it myself!)

Persecution complex.

Dr. Freud... paging Dr. Freud....

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:40 am

If I write up the times when I interacted with the BLM and they were friendly and helpful, would THAT get included?

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:44 am

What about the times that LE asked for Ranger assistance with someone who by all rights should have had their asses busted, and the individual got off scott free instead?

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:58 am

Just remember, the BLM does not have to grant a permit. It's their job to make sure the impact is as small as possible on the resource. We have the same issues here. Big difference between multiple use/abuse and preservation. Most BLM Rangers do what they do because of the desire to protect resources, not to hassle people.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:59 pm

What about the times that LE asked for Ranger assistance with someone who by all rights should have had their asses busted, and the individual got off scott free instead?

Genius, please stop making salient points.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:09 pm

Here ya go:

http://archive.aclu.org/library/bustcard.html

I carry this with me at all times, and I WORK for the Feds.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:29 pm

Isotopia wrote:
What about the times that LE asked for Ranger assistance with someone who by all rights should have had their asses busted, and the individual got off scott free instead?
Genius, please stop making salient points.

LOL

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:40 pm

I have no sympathy for idiots who openly flaunt illegal activity on the streets at BRC or who otherwise act as fish jumping into the net. However, in a free society it is unwise to give all the benefit of the doubt to the LEWs.

I specifically and I think reasonably object to:
1.'blanket searches' where individuals and tents in the area are searched after a bust of an individual nearby even though there is no probable cause.
2. people who insist on their rights and who advise others on their rights not to be searched being separated and 'wrung through the ringer'.

I'm a bit surprised nobody else thinks the above is a problem.

The BLM wrote 218 citations, 114 for smoking pot, often the product of illegal searches. A truer indication of response to actual needs of the event seems to be shown by the professional conduct of the police, who tended not to ferret out minor private transgressions but prominently and swiftly dealt with violence. The Pershing County sheriff deputies issued only 2 drug related citations, down from 9 last year.
The BLM thus seems to be the main perpetrators of harassment of BM atendees. It is because of them our cars are now searched as we enter.
If you are happy with this state of affairs, great. I have so far thankfully had no direct experience in these matters, but I hear every year of greater numbers of such incidents and they deserve attention.

In conclusion, I am asking for vigilence regarding illegal conduct by the BLM, since they seem to be most of the problem, and for people who feel they have been unjustly treated to stand up for their rights and write letters of complaint to the department of the interior. In theory hundreds of such letters could be generated by people concerned over the last few years and such letters get noticed if a trend emerges.

I have a constructive idea to address some of this. I would suggest an art project which creats a geometric pattern on the playa of fabric partitions about 1.3 maters tall. Enough of these would block lines of sight across the playa thus inhibiting the spying on people from a distance. Privacy is an endangered species at Burning man, be it from voyeurs with cameras and telephoto lenses or people hunting you with night vision equipment. If some art had a side effect of assisting in preserving this increasingly dear commodity so much the better.
I have said my peace, thank you for your consideration.

Flib

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:01 pm

flibidyjib wrote:The BLM thus seems to be the main perpetrators of harassment of BM atendees. It is because of them our cars are now searched as we enter.

Perhaps, but the search is for stow-aways, not for things like illegal drugs, etc (anyone you know personally ever had anything confiscated at the gate and/or a ticket written for contraband?). The BLM cares about stowaways because they get a fee for everyone who attends (and stowaways are not counted). The BM organizers probably care even more (they are loosing a whole lot more money per stowaway!).

Can't speak to the harrasment issue - other than a close call at being run over by a white surburban w/o lights in 2004, I haven't had any run-ins w/ BLM or LEO's (but then I don't act like there are no laws at BM either...) I have seen some stuff that was questionable (beatings, etc), but I wasn't there at the beginning of the encounter so I don't know the whole story - sometimes what APPEARS to be police brutality is justified. Not saying the BLM and LEO's are saints, but don't think they are quite fascists either.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:02 pm

flibidyjib wrote:I have no sympathy for idiots who openly flaunt illegal activity on the streets at BRC or who otherwise act as fish jumping into the net. However, in a free society it is unwise to give all the benefit of the doubt to the LEWs.

I specifically and I think reasonably object to:
1.'blanket searches' where individuals and tents in the area are searched after a bust of an individual nearby even though there is no probable cause.
2. people who insist on their rights and who advise others on their rights not to be searched being separated and 'wrung through the ringer'.

I'm a bit surprised nobody else thinks the above is a problem.

The BLM wrote 218 citations, 114 for smoking pot, often the product of illegal searches. A truer indication of response to actual needs of the event seems to be shown by the professional conduct of the police, who tended not to ferret out minor private transgressions but prominently and swiftly dealt with violence. The Pershing County sheriff deputies issued only 2 drug related citations, down from 9 last year.
The BLM thus seems to be the main perpetrators of harassment of BM atendees. It is because of them our cars are now searched as we enter.
If you are happy with this state of affairs, great. I have so far thankfully had no direct experience in these matters, but I hear every year of greater numbers of such incidents and they deserve attention.

In conclusion, I am asking for vigilence regarding illegal conduct by the BLM, since they seem to be most of the problem, and for people who feel they have been unjustly treated to stand up for their rights and write letters of complaint to the department of the interior. In theory hundreds of such letters could be generated by people concerned over the last few years and such letters get noticed if a trend emerges.

I have a constructive idea to address some of this. I would suggest an art project which creats a geometric pattern on the playa of fabric partitions about 1.3 maters tall. Enough of these would block lines of sight across the playa thus inhibiting the spying on people from a distance. Privacy is an endangered species at Burning man, be it from voyeurs with cameras and telephoto lenses or people hunting you with night vision equipment. If some art had a side effect of assisting in preserving this increasingly dear commodity so much the better.
I have said my peace, thank you for your consideration.

Flib

I find all of your statements to be hard to digest. Probable cause is not that hard to develop for a search, especially if one has a fatty stuck in one's mouth. That's a no brainer. I would like to see the cites on your information. One of the BLM Rangers works nearby, maybe I'll just ask him his opinion.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:05 pm

helitack wrote: I find all of your statements to be hard to digest.

Try marinading or meat tenderizer.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:26 pm

flibidyjib wrote: I have a constructive idea to address some of this. I would suggest an art project which creats a geometric pattern on the playa of fabric partitions about 1.3 maters tall. Enough of these would block lines of sight across the playa thus inhibiting the spying on people from a distance. Privacy is an endangered species at Burning man, be it from voyeurs with cameras and telephoto lenses or people hunting you with night vision equipment. If some art had a side effect of assisting in preserving this increasingly dear commodity so much the better.
I have said my peace, thank you for your consideration. Flib

Interesting notion. Let's assume that 2 walls would be built at right angles thru the man... Each wall would be 1.3m tall by the diameter of the Inner Playa space (which I cannot find... ~1000m?). That would be 2600 square meters of material. Then there are the posts to support it, lets assume 1 post per 25m (probably way low), that requires 80 posts (each of which needs to be secured againsts winds and properly marked/lit for night safety - so at least 80 lights and batteries).

Of course, this would not be navigable by anyone. So more material, more posts & lights (alot more!), I think you see where I am going with this. Who pays for it? Who set's it up? Cleans it up?

And do you think that the Authorities (or the BM llc) would agree to this? No one (not even EMS) could see anywhere!

But I like the scope of your thinking! I have often fantasized about setting up several IR-light device that would blanket the playa's horizon line, thus preventing observation by night vision. Probably against some law though, and easily located and stopped. Your idea (while very expensive) could achieve the same thing w/o actively "jamming" the LEO's observation devices....

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:34 pm

Why go to the hassle and expense of jamming the LEO's night vision devices? Do you really need to poke smot in the open at BM? Do you really need drugs at all on the playa? It's only 7 days and there's not a lack of things to keep you physically and mentally entertained. Why not play the part of a good citizen for a week and be done with it? But that wouldn't be radical enough I guess.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:49 pm

Kinetic, I would'nt touch your hand. You've been touching yourself again, haven't you?

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:11 am

Tancorix wrote:Why go to the hassle and expense of jamming the LEO's night vision devices?

It ain't about smoking pot - I object to the notion that we have observers who are watching our every move. For me it would be more about "civic action" that facilitating illegal behavior.

Do you think the LEO's have never used their fancy gear to "observe" amorous couples? Or look into someone's tent while they were dressing?(all in the name of ensuring that nothing illegal is happening of course...)Maybe even make a recording or two for their buddies?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:38 am

flibidyjib wrote:I have a constructive idea to address some of this. I would suggest an art project which creats a geometric pattern on the playa of fabric partitions about 1.3 maters tall. Enough of these would block lines of sight across the playa thus inhibiting the spying on people from a distance.... {blablabla}[/size]

Don't forget lids on those cubicles for the black helicopters.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:45 am

and lead-laced material for the x-ray goggles.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:12 am

Ranger Genius wrote: If the only reason you're going to Burning Man is so you can take drugs, please don't invite yourself back.

sez who?

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:13 am

helitack wrote:Just remember, the BLM does not have to grant a permit. .

Why not, doesn't the land belong to the taxpayer?

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:19 am

I think flittergibbet has a point. (And not just because of the unpronouncable screen name). LEOs are public servants, we are taxpayers, so they are there to serve us. While it's true that "society" has saddled LEOs with many stupid laws that are an insult to human dignity and freedom, it is also true that LEOs have an obligation to respect citizens and use discrection in their enforcement duties.

If they knew people were watching them and were willing to report outrageous conduct things might go better.

Strike back against BLM fascism!

Strike back against BLM fascism!

Not a problem? OK.

Re: Not a problem? OK.

Re: Not a problem? OK.

Re: Not a problem? OK.

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Re: Not a problem? OK.