Don't come to the Thunderdome unless you are willing to pay

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:21 pm

Our Lady of Shlongs camp was fucking great! Very cool peeps!

Did I show them my penis for a bloody mary? YES!!! They even took a picture of it... no big deal, i thinks.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:24 pm

Doesn't yours have a made in china sticker on it?

I'm equally ambivalent about the stripper car. I can see the need to keep a fair gender balance, or it would be even creepier (10 guys and one girl dancing would be icky, too), but I can see a negotiable "bring a girl (or two)" rule as being sensible. My solution would just be to make the guys do all the dancing.

Personally, I just don't see "go and get us some booze" as a gift to the participant. Maybe if they were sent to get a glass of something specific, so that they had to go talk to strangers and explain their predicament, that could be better. Hard to make clear distinctions in most cases, though.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:18 am

In my experience with AMLN this year, there were a few ways to get the pendant. The most common was performance: they had an open mic/ talent show every day. My impression was that just performing was enough, that there was no judgment on your offering. I recall hearing that anyone who performed got one. People who performed in the Space Virgins sex show also got them. [Some acts were ‘more worthy’ than others. (Sorry, I thought Scotty putting nails through his genitalia was the best part. The rest was a little boring.)]

I got mine by marrying a camp member. Although that's not why we got married, FTR.

I've been something of a barter abolitionist, myself, but I can understand multiple sides to it. Some thoughts, in no apparent order:

1) By asking a performative 'gift' for the AMLN stuff, AMLN gave people a chance to perform, furthered one of the apparent goals of the camp in making sure there was varied, fun stuff going on at the stage, and provided a joint gift-giving experience - I mean, the performer and the camp worked together to give something to the 'spectators'.
2) I understand the concept of barter bars which ask for booze, because the cost of alcohol is astronomical and a bar without booze usually closes down.
3) I loathe such barter bars and generally choose not to participate in them.

I've told this story several times before, but one of my best barter bar experiences in 2003 was a whole evening I spent at one bar. I ended up 'tending for them, on the condition that under my watch it would be gift only.

From where I stand now, I guess I see my own experiences a bit differently than I did back in the day. I mean, this bar wasn't specifying 'alcohol' as a required trade or anything, and I was all hopped up on my own self-important outrage at the concept of a barter bar. Bit what I believe actually made the difference is that they were asking for interaction. The bartender didn't want to play servant all night, stuck with a bunch of drunken hippie-ravers. There's an enormous difference between having valuable interactions with someone and just serving them booze.

From that, I would guess that it isn't so difficult to get in free to DG. I wouldn't be surprised if people who think they are owed a spot in TD constantly bombard them. That place gets crowded and TD, despite their moments of over-the-top-snarkiness, has a lot to handle. A person who might wants to participate in TD might actually interact with the camp members instead of speaking to them only when trying to gain entrance.

Someone else will have to test out the hypothesis. Me, I’m still working on getting them to step up to our pillow fight challenge. And I’ve called them enough names in the course of it that I should be afraid for my life.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:44 am

bullD wrote: Very cool peeps!

Don't.....ever...say that......again.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:47 am

Ranger Genius wrote:
bullD wrote: Very cool peeps!
Don't.....ever...say that......again.

RG? is there something going on here we should know about?

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:49 am

Apart from the cold-blooded massacre of the English language?

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:51 am

Using the "word" peeps would usually earn you what I like to call a "right smart bop," but that's not really an option in this medium.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:53 am

Oh, I see. Well, if you're ever near the bay area, I imagine you could greet bullD in person.

And here I thought that you were upset at bull's assessment of the cool quotient of OLoS.

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:57 am

Rian Jackson wrote:

There's an enormous difference between having valuable interactions with someone and just serving them booze.

Yes!

Rian Jackson wrote:
A person who might wants to participate in TD might actually interact with the camp members instead of speaking to them only when trying to gain entrance.

Yes again! and, they ARE good people. my opinion from my experiences with them.

Rian Jackson wrote:
Me, I’m still working on getting them to step up to our pillow fight challenge.

I'll give you a pillow fight, he he he...

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:59 am

Ok, prepare to have your ass kicked. But I think that Genius has first dibbs.

Yeah, i liked DG. I got to talk to them here and there, largely in the process of trying to get them to fight our camp. I guess you could say I spent a lot of time calling them chickenshit at high volumes.

Damn, I need a megaphone.

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:01 am

ehh, RG, relax.

"Right smart bop"?????

ok. (rolling eyes)

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:03 am

Rian Jackson wrote:Ok, prepare to have your ass kicked. But I think that Genius has first dibbs.

Yeah, i liked DG. I got to talk to them here and there, largely in the process of trying to get them to fight our camp. I guess you could say I spent a lot of time calling them chickenshit at high volumes.

Damn, I need a megaphone.

I'm prepared, that is if Genius doesn't find me first, he he he.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:06 am

It's the same punishment one gets for kibitzing in a chess game, giving hints at Trivial Pursuit, or bringing cheap wine to one of my dinner parties. A right smart bop. It's the only way to get through to some people.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:08 am

bull, while writing 'roll eyes' is not as obnoxious as seeing the emoticon, it's essentially the same.

of course, that brings us back to e-miming...

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand.

I'd like to see a BM where it's never necessary to set up any kind of bartering, where people tend to give when they take, allowing their counterparts to give more freely.

Is it possibe to get close enough to this ideal that these bartering conversations no longer have to happen? It's not like you'd ever get a 100% success rate. But if people didn't feel that they were being used in some way, perhaps they wouldn't set up barter requirements.

Just a thought...

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:10 am

Ranger Genius wrote:It's the same punishment one gets for kibitzing in a chess game, giving hints at Trivial Pursuit, or bringing cheap wine to one of my dinner parties. A right smart bop. It's the only way to get through to some people.

Well then, I will use the eloquent quote from RianJackson:

"Oh, I see. Well, if you're ever near the bay area, I imagine you could greet bullD in person."

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:15 am

(as a side note of minimal imortance, a group of us, including most of Happy Camp, drove up to DG, got out of the car, invaded yelling "Happay!" and proceeded to HUG THEM, KISS THEM, and BE NICE TO THEM, and then ran for our lives. I'm pretty sure we have a spot in TD next year...)

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:21 am

Rian Jackson wrote: bull, while writing 'roll eyes' is not as obnoxious as seeing the emoticon, it's essentially the same.

yes, yes, I know. It just felt so right though.

Rian Jackson wrote: Anyway, back to the discussion at hand.

I'd like to see a BM where it's never necessary to set up any kind of bartering, where people tend to give when they take, allowing their counterparts to give more freely.

Is it possibe to get close enough to this ideal that these bartering conversations no longer have to happen? It's not like you'd ever get a 100% success rate. But if people didn't feel that they were being used in some way, perhaps they wouldn't set up barter requirements.

Just a thought...

would be nice.

As you may have noticed, I brought my pedicab last year. I think most of the time PEEPS were very cool about showing their appreciation for my giving them a ride somewhere. There were however a few that expected me to take them where they wanted to go. With those few PEEPS, I showed them that I was having a good time while gladly giving them a ride and talking with them which usually broke the ice, so to speak.

This year, my pedicab will be electric powered because damn I was tired...

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:29 am

Guin, if you mutha fuckas try that at my camp, you might also consider running for your lives.

I believe the only time i ended up asking for a ride this year (except from our Cap't) was on the magic carpet. I had really just sat down to listen to their music - arabic, of course - and discuss it. (Which reminds me, I still need to find the owner of said caprpet and make some mixes of music). They ended up graciously carting me and my melting ice bags (the bike had already been stolen by then) across the playa.

Speaking of gifts, i find that i can gift people well if i just follow Sensei. He gives them kuffiyehs, i show them how to tie them for maximum dust protection.

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:33 am

GuinivereElise wrote:(as a side note of minimal imortance, a group of us, including most of Happy Camp, drove up to DG, got out of the car, invaded yelling "Happay!" and proceeded to HUG THEM, KISS THEM, and BE NICE TO THEM, and then ran for our lives. I'm pretty sure we have a spot in TD next year...)

he he he, keep doing what you do, they are a bunch of softies, on the inside.

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:35 am

Rian Jackson wrote: Guin, if you mutha fuckas try that at my camp, you might also consider running for your lives.

Pillow fight!!!!!

Rian Jackson wrote: Speaking of gifts, i find that i can gift people well if i just follow Sensei. He gives them kuffiyehs, i show them how to tie them for maximum dust protection.

umm, sounding stupid here but, what is a kuffiyeh?

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:36 am

A little knowledge is (in addition to being a dangerous thing) a great gift.

The solution is to patronize and amply reward true gift bars, and to avoid bars that actively solicit bartering. I went into a bar one time (wish I could remember which), and they said "well, all we've got left is Cuervo, Campari, and clam juice...what can I get ya'?" I went back to my camp and brought them three bottles of tasty liqueurs for being willing to part with the last few things they had without asking for anything in return.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:46 am

was it really that hard to get those necklaces? Shit, I got mine while being tackled by three wasted and wacky Canadian girls from that camp while entertaining them in my camp.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:46 am

Ranger Genius wrote:A little knowledge is (in addition to being a dangerous thing) a great gift.

The solution is to patronize and amply reward true gift bars, and to avoid bars that actively solicit bartering. I went into a bar one time (wish I could remember which), and they said "well, all we've got left is Cuervo, Campari, and clam juice...what can I get ya'?" I went back to my camp and brought them three bottles of tasty liqueurs for being willing to part with the last few things they had without asking for anything in return.

exactly.

in the same SORT of vein:

there was a camp that was distributing snocones to anyone who wanted them. The price? A hug (a double gift, if you ask me). In addition to announcing "come on over and getcher hug and a snow cone" they were also saying things like " we will gladly accept donations of ice ". While they were letting people know of their need, they weren't REQUIRING ice.

I appreciated that approach...

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:47 am

Was that the bus full of canadians?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:17 am

the snow cone truck guys saved my fevered ass during break down in '03

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:19 am

bullD wrote:
Rian Jackson wrote: Speaking of gifts, i find that i can gift people well if i just follow Sensei. He gives them kuffiyehs, i show them how to tie them for maximum dust protection.
umm, sounding stupid here but, what is a kuffiyeh?

Um that yassir arafat headdress, I think.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:24 am

stuart wrote:was it really that hard to get those necklaces? Shit, I got mine while being tackled by three wasted and wacky Canadian girls from that camp while entertaining them in my camp.

IMO, getting the 'gift' anywhere is never difficult if they actually like you. but then, it sounds like you got your gift - friendship and tackling - before the necklace was bestowed.

god, i sound like a hippie.

the part that DOES bother me about situations where there is a requirement to do-something-to-get-something is that i always feel that the focus is no longer on the interaction, but instead on the item. the materialism of it is an uncomfortable side effect for me. of course, this more likely is backwards - people want the item and so do things for the purpose of procuring it, rather than because they want to know the people involved. Unfortunately, people from the camps that have some sort of barter system going on tend to think that people are always out to get their schwag, and that schwag collecting is the motivating force for everyone who comes their way.

Maybe I'm just hypersensitive. I will say, though, that my desire to avoid all of the above has meant that i often avoid any situation of barter - even those that are less clearly commerce.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:28 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
bullD wrote:
Rian Jackson wrote: Speaking of gifts, i find that i can gift people well if i just follow Sensei. He gives them kuffiyehs, i show them how to tie them for maximum dust protection.
umm, sounding stupid here but, what is a kuffiyeh?
Um that yassir arafat headdress, I think.

Arafat did wear one. Kuffiyehs are almost always either red-and-white or black-and-white. The colours and patterns can signify tribe or political affiliation, but don't always. They're worn largely by Arab men across the Middle East, in several different fashions. They're excellent scarves and headdresses, too.

No one, except when they're making fun of Arafat, wears it like he did. That's just ludicrous.

Anyway, they are great protection against sun, wind, rain, and cold. They can disguise your face or cut the amount of dust that reaches your face almost to zero. They make excellent slings for ice bags. Etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:31 am

friendship

fucking hippie

anyway, I don't do the barter thing in my camp and I don't do it in other camps. There was one time though... (this is an anecdote I have related before so feel free to skip it)

It was '02 and I had some newbs in my camp. After a quest to find booty shakin house music (hard in '02 as most of the sound camps played trance) we went to the camps bar for drinks. They wanted shit for them. My newb friend whipped out all her candy and OTC crap. They guy pointed to a big jar behind the bar full of the shit. She did not end up with much and was bent. I went to the bar and saw that one of the tenders smoked so I rolled him up a spiffy handmade cigarette and offered that to him. After he got my assurances that it was just tobacco he gave me all the booze I could carry. My newb friend was pissed but the lesson was learned.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:39 am

Rian Jackson wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
bullD wrote: umm, sounding stupid here but, what is a kuffiyeh?
Um that yassir arafat headdress, I think.
Arafat did wear one. Kuffiyehs are almost always either red-and-white or black-and-white. The colours and patterns can signify tribe or political affiliation, but don't always. They're worn largely by Arab men across the Middle East, in several different fashions. They're excellent scarves and headdresses, too.

No one, except when they're making fun of Arafat, wears it like he did. That's just ludicrous.

Anyway, they are great protection against sun, wind, rain, and cold. They can disguise your face or cut the amount of dust that reaches your face almost to zero. They make excellent slings for ice bags. Etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Thanks for the better, more culturally literate explanation. (Though for down and dirty instant recognition, mine is probably effective.)