Borg2 - East Coast Opinions

[geekster]

The whole thing just makes me want to shit my pants and dance.

[elixir]

“Bob” thanks for the comic relief. I couldn’t stop laughing at the STFU sign. I’m sure it applies to all of us.

However, I think it’s time to turn back to the brew ha.


Reply to Anonymous Clay Taurus:

1. The New York department of State site lists SEAL as a “Domestic Not-For-Profit Corporation”. That means that it was registered to be exempt from State taxes. There is nothing there about 501(c)3. Please be kind enough to tell us where you looked so we can verify what you’ve said.

Beckyparty asked about the “IRS status” of the SEAL. The IRS is a Federal organization. 501(c)3 confers a certain type of exemption from Federal taxes and requires a lengthy and in-depth application be submitted for approval. Just because a Company is exempt for State tax purposes does not mean it’s exempt from Federal taxes. Since we are not clear that that application was ever submitted or approved, we cannot yet conclude whether SEAL is exempt from Federal taxes. Very few lay people understand this process. Even a lot of attorneys don’t know it. It is perfectly viable for Cory to answer “I don’t know and I’m not qualified to answer that question, but we’re looking into it.” In fact, to do otherwise would be irresponsible. So I have to let you know that both of Becky party’s questions were answered.



2. The Libel issue is far from bullshit. In many states accusing someone of a crime is Libel “per se” which means that the basic elements of the crime are automatically proven just by the publication. There are defenses, of course, but in this circumstance, proving the prima facie case would probably not be that much of a stretch.

And, no one is threatening to file suit here. It wasn’t even considered for a second. I was merely explaining to Amy and anyone else who needed to know why there was cause for serious concern about the way one presents information in a public domain. I wouldn’t want anyone in our community to suffer legal consequences from expressing themselves.

I do find it interesting, however, that you, who would not be the subject of a lawsuit, goad the potential claimant to “bring it on”. If that were to happen there would be a hell of a financial and emotional drain on all parties, particularly the defendant. But that, of course, is no concern of yours, so why not egg the situation on – one more example where you throw common sense out the window for the sake of venting spleen.

3. You can call my thoughts on the underlying motives for strife “ pop psychology psycho babble” if you want. But that type of knee-jerk reaction underscores exactly what I’m saying. You post not to add valuable insight into the situation, but mostly to hurt others.

Besides, “pop-psychology” suggests that I got these ideas from modern popular culture, which I did not. Basically, I made them up myself and I believe that they are valid.


4. You say you post anonymously to avoid retribution. I think you post anonymously to avoid having people do to you, what you do here.

As for finding your clitoris, if you’re female, they’re not very hard to find, unless you have some anatomical anomaly. I'm sure we'd have plenty of voluteers to help. If your male . . . well, then it would be hard to find, but don’t give up hope.

-Gordon

[Chicken John]

Test...

[Chicken John]

God damn it. Who does a guy have to kill to get kicked off this thing? It's been 24 hours and I havn't even so much as got a warning that if I kill people that I can't post anymore. Nicole, what does I guy have to do to get rejected around here? Do we have to start dating before I can feel your wrath??????????


Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sensei]

God damn it. Who does a guy have to kill to get kicked off this thing? It's been 24 hours and I havn't even so much as got a warning that if I kill people that I can't post anymore. Nicole, what does I guy have to do to get rejected around here? Do we have to start dating before I can feel your wrath??????????


Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can kill people all day long and nobody cares, but try to sell something and mister, you've never seen such firepower. Either that, or try posting some poetry. That'll get your ass kicked, if not kicked off.

[DVD Burner]

Well out of experience.....

Claiming to kill someone does not readily work but telling someone that you will beat them senseless will.

[sweepinggirl]

or try posting some poetry. That'll get your ass kicked, if not kicked off.

if poetry doesn't work, how about some quotes? try these, by a poet and a scholar:

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity.
Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity.
It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.

A lie cannot live.

Never succumb to the temptation of bitterness.

Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.

Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it.
Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it.
Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it.

It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me,
but it can keep him from lynching me,
and I think that's pretty important.

Life's most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?...

Martin Luther King, Jr.

[andi]

If only more people felt that at heart.

[beatdizzy]

Holy Shit.

Some anger issues huh?

For the record I spoke to Mr. X last Saturday and expect to hear from him again this Sat, he is in the UK. He did Santa Con* with my brother. He calls me Saturdays when he has free minutes. But prob explains why you havent heard from him - hit me off list and I can give u his email.

Clay Taurus. I got nothing but love for you � please don�t be afraid.


*well their own one �cos I was too drunk at the New York one to furnish them with proper information.

[Ladymerv]

Thank you all who have posted on this thread.

I would like to ask "Clay Taurus" be unmasked, I can not take anything you say seriously if you are anonymous. My name is Cory Mervis. I have no reason to speak to you until you too have a name. If you are afraid to be known because of social stigma, then you may be beginning to figure out how complex this is for me.

I have sought advice from other people about the financial situation that SEAL has. These wizened people told me that I should seek professional bookkeeping help (someone outside this situation), that I should hire them and pay them and get this taken care of once and for all. So SEAL has hired a professional bookkeeper to go over years of books and make a report with a spread sheet. I am hoping that this professional book keeper can get the job done within two to three weeks time (no guarantees-its tax time).

"Zekeman", "Clay Taurus", Johnathan Moll , and "Splinter", I will be happy to share these reports once they have been completed. I will do all this and disclose the reports, but anyone wishing to see them will have to promise closure at that point. I do wish for this to end when there is nothing left to talk about. I don’t think I can change anyone’s mind that thinks that funds were misappropriated. You can never change anyone ’s mind. Ever. But I will show you where it went. Then someone else can try to open a non-profit to give it all away. It was the most complicated thing I ever did. Some of it worked. Some of it didn’t. I met a bunch of people. I made a lot of friends. I lost a few. I grew. I made many, many mistakes.

And for those of you who don’t know, there are still thousands of dollars in SEAL’s bank account. The issue isn’t that the money isn’t there.

I would like to ask that people stop posting to this matter until the bookkeeper has a chance to look over the books and make a report, after that if you have any questions you can email me and I will personally send you the reports. And that is my plan for putting this to bed. I will not post anymore here on this topic.

LadyMerv
NYC

[dragonfly Jafe]

I would like to ask that people stop posting to this matter until the bookkeeper has a chance to look over the books and make a report, after that if you have any questions you can email me and I will personally send you the reports. And that is my plan for putting this to bed. I will not post anymore here on this topic.LadyMerv
NYC

Fine, but by not clearing this up before the lection you are asking for it to be a litmus test in the BORG2 elections...

[Bob]

ie, When did you stop beating your wife?

[GuinivereElise]

objection, your honor. argumentative.

[sweepinggirl]

but by not clearing this up before the lection you are asking for it to be a litmus test in the BORG2 elections...

huh?

what r u saying, please clarify....

asking for what to be a litmus test?
and a litmus test for what?
and who is being asked to perform. evaluate and publish findings of such a litmus test?
and is BORG2 allocating a committee and a budget to oversee this test, who will be fully accountable and transparent in all their actions and decisions, providing complete documentation, available to all?

and is this test the test to end all tests?

does no one else notice that before one hoop can be jumped through, there's already another one?

that's not looking for answers that's looking for blood.

********more poetry**********
In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal.

Life's most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?

MLK Jr

[geekster]

Having someone outside the whole thing have a look is exactly the right approach, in my opinion. Thanks, Cory, got getting this put to bed. Some people will never be satisfied, though, and we need to accept that. It's what they do.

[Tancorix]

There's discussion in the Case Studies thread of having this thread purged off the e-playa. If that would have happened, Lady Merv would not have had the ability to clear her name and tell her side to the story. If anyone's interested here's a link:http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... &start=510

[dragonfly Jafe]

The whole thing just makes me want to shit my pants and dance.

Maybe there should be a "Shit your pants and Dance" camp (or is that what gets the kids to dance all night?)

[dragonfly Jafe]

but by not clearing this up before the lection you are asking for it to be a litmus test in the BORG2 elections...

huh?

what r u saying, please clarify....

I am saying that if one does not want to discover the truth (by spending alot of effort) they will often look for a "quicky" way to distinguish between choices (a litmus test). And one of the most time honored litmus tests is the apparent presence(or absence) of corruption.

I'm not saying that there is truth to the allegations (I don't know and don't really care). But, seeing that it WAS brought up, and all that has been responded is "We are working on a response", people who are voting have a choice, and in the absence of compelling facts, this "800 pound gorilla" will be used by at least some in place of the truth. To expect otherwise is ridiculus.

This isn't a Court of Law - you cannot order the voters to disregard part of the discussion. Once this was brought up (for good or bad) it should have been vigorously demonstrated to be untrue. Failing to do so adds credibility to the allegations....

[jimmason]

thank you cory. we all look forward to an independent review so we all know waht happened here.

i also look forward to this issue being resolved without anonymous accusers. there is no "witness pretection program" in the court of public opinion. the fact that clay taurus finds it reasonable to make such serious allegations without the responsibility of identifying him/herself i find terribly irresponsible and deflating of his/her claims. his/her case would be much stronger with a name and identifyable person behind it.

such anonymity also leads to paranoia. my paranoid theory here is that clay taurus is actually one of the "named" people accusing here. but when he/she wants to really bring out the knives, he/she goes behind an alt. of course i can't know that. but such anonymous posting of such serious matters leads all of us to curious speculating. how big is the accusing pool here actually?

not sure who else here is making accusations (or support) behind alts. i have been busy and haven't been able to review this whole thread. but whatever the case, i think the minimal requirements for finding the truth here is:

- cory engaging an independent book keeper to make an assessment of the situation and clarify the situation once and for all.

- and everyone making accusations or support about the situation unmask themselves. if they fail to do so, their claims/evidence (against or for) should be ignored.

so clay taurus, who are you?

are there others alts here who should reveal themselves?


jim mason
(note, a real name)

[Ranger Genius]

For those of you who missed it, he means socks.

[sweepinggirl]

- and everyone making accusations or support about the situation unmask themselves.

in case anyone missed it:

Ana da Gois de Saldanha da Gama

[leftunsaid]

ditto for me....dafna gold.

[dragonfly Jafe]

It will be interesting to see, now that the elections are over, if this issue dies away....

[jimmason]

clay taurus? you continue to hide. where are you?

you are not allowed to make the severe accusations you have and remain behind an alt. if you want your accusations to have any hearing, you need to be accountable before the public you are involving, with a verified name and person.

or is my paranoid theory that you are in fact the alt for one of the named accusers here, but an alt used when you want to put out the real nasty stuff, actually correct. who knows? hard to tell. easy to speculate. but difficult to ultimately take you seriously without any verification of your identity.

are they other accusers and/or supporters that also need to unmask here? i have not been able to read back through this whole thing again. if others know of other significant voices in this collision (on either side) that have been colliding in anonymity, please call them out.

we should all try to heal this gapping wound with data and truth. that will require identity visibility from all involved.

jim

[Bob]

Jim, if you wanted to get an idea of the standards and/or consistency employed to delete posts or threads, to initiate warnings to eplaya users, you could use the Search form to look at the "eplaya feedback" forum, click the radio button for "Posts", and search on the words "delete" or "deleted".

Good luck. I can't figure it out, and though I'm sure others might have firmly set ideas of what constitutes abuse of the BBS, the admins set up the Feedback forum 1) because they can't possibly read every thread and 2) because they recognize there are shades of gray. The custom over the years has been to allow people to post just about anything they want, and anonymously, within a broad interpretation of "netiquette". Being a Burning Man board, emphasis seems to have been on "commercial" posts, but those involving personal attacks and floods of caustic criticism, answerable or otherwise, seem to fall into cracks in that grayish area. Trying to provide reasoned answers still leaves the anonymous posts up for public view, and also pushes those threads to the top of the list. It's like the apocryphal story about Lyndon Johnson suggesting that a political opponent was a pigfucker -- the gist being he'd still look bad trying to deny it. I'd have a hard time considering the truth or wisdom in "embezzlement" accusations posted anonymously, even if couched in less libelous phraseology. Letting this thread stand as it is might be all you could hope for, and it's really up to the board owners to decide whether they wish to leave it as an example of how this BBS should be used.

[jimmason]

clay tarurus is still MIA.

seems the most voiciferous accuser doesn't like sunshine very much.

j