theme authorship

x why z · Post by **x why z** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:50 pm

I’m noting how much discussion there is of what the theme is going to be next year, suggestions for themes, etc. Why don’t we put the theme up for a community-wide vote? The logistics of working it out would be managable if the will was there.

Larry Harvey has this idea of Burning Man eventually functioning as a political detox/rehabilitation program:

http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/20 ... urning+man

Wouldn’t the community collectively narrating the theme, instead of looking to a central figure, be an important first step?

It seems there is a tension between the increasing top-down orchestration of the event and the anarchical grassroots origin of the whole thing. Well, taking the initiative on the theme would address all of these issues. It would be both complying with his stated long-range vision, and placing more control of the event with the community—the end effect is taking the spoon out of his hand and starting to feed ourselves. And if the BM organization is resistant to a collective effort, then it would seem to highlight some fundamental problems in the current arrangement.

I’d love to hear everybody’s thoughts on this...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:05 pm

> I’d love to hear everybody’s thoughts on this...

Really?

I think you're tweakin, man.

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:09 pm

x why z wrote:...Why don’t we put the theme up for a community-wide vote?...Wouldn’t the community collectively narrating the theme, instead of looking to a central figure, be an important first step?

From despair.com: "Meetings: None of us is as dumb as all of us."

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:29 pm

Having just spent a year trying to help a theatre write their fucking mission statement I can attest to the fact that art by committee equals death of art.

Iago · Post by **Iago** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:35 pm

FUCK THE THEME - How about some reserved camping spots and I would really like to have one of those faucets sticking out of the ground right in front of my camp too. I think those whinie DPW Fucks ought to be able to supply running water. Like they already got the streets layed out to see where to bury the water lines. Man, when is Larry gonna get with the program!!!

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:35 pm

Committees royally suck. I work in corporate Amerika, and committees make about as much progress as a model T driving down a mucky, muddy road. Progress is slow, and it's a real mess all along the way.

This is Larry's event, Larry's dream, and Larry has the stages already mapped out. Let him continue to chose the theme.

And why fix it if it's working fine? I didn't realize this was a big problem anyway.

antron · Post by **antron** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:41 pm

do you ever listen to "car talk" on npr?
do you know about click and clack's uncertainty principle?
it states that given any subject, one person who doesn't know what he is talking about knows infinitely more about that subject than two people who don't know what they're talking about.

so it is with design decisions. and the theme is *definitely* a design decision.

we don't need a theme determined democratically by the opinionated.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:43 pm

though I don't think I care if it's "Larry's" per se

just draw the fucker out of a hat.

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:45 pm

I'm just now trying to imagine what kind of vapid, no-essense, no-meaning, PC de-motivation would come out of a Theme Commitee of any size. The mind hollows...

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:49 pm

> This is Larry's event, Larry's dream, and Larry has the stages already
> mapped out. Let him continue to chose the theme.

And let me continue to ignore it, as I always have.

Agreed on the decision by committee opinions. Committees suck. Then
again, it'd give everyone something else to complain about.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:49 pm

Kittens and Other Happy Things

Keeping a Positive Outlook

Art that Doesn't Offend

Well this is the kind of shit that happened with the mission statement anyway...

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:50 pm

Committees have their place. Deciding the BM theme is not it.
Next discussion, thank you!

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:52 pm

> Committees have their place.

Sorta. Mostly I've seen that they're for covering people's asses and
wielding political power.

However, I have worked in groups that were able to make decent
decisions. They very carefully were *not* committees, though.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:54 pm

When I think of the word committee, I think of a bunch of Senators sitting on their asses grilling some poor schmuck for one thing or the other with the cameras rolling. That's why even the word committee turns me off.

x why z · Post by **x why z** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:13 am

Who said anything about a committee? One guy offers up an idea, somebody else has a different one. Lots of people vote. It's the distribution of final say, not creative process.

I thought the BM community would be welcoming to a little critical consideration of alternative ways of doing things. I didn't mean to roll in a rain cloud.

PJ · Post by PJ » Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:33 am

x why z wrote:Who said anything about a committee? One guy offers up an idea, somebody else has a different one. Lots of people vote.

That's what a committee is, dipshit.

All the clever people in an organization are never a substitute for one genuine genius. And few committees exclusively consist of clever people. More often it's the people somebody else didn't want.

x why z · Post by **x why z** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:19 pm

Dear PJ,

Thank you for your thoughtful response, but:

com·mit·tee: n. A group of people officially delegated to perform a function, such as investigating, considering, reporting, or acting on a matter.

This fundamentally different from a democracratic vote. Your point about the rarity of genius IS the point. How much creative intelligence is present in the BM community, and how much of that creativity has the chance of being folded into the centrally organized aspects of the event? It's not about dumbing things down to the lowest common denomenator, it's about openning up the central structure of the event enough to take advantage of the creative input of the rest of community. That was the heart of what I was saying, and a community-wide theme competition decided by popular vote seems like one step in that direction.

Why the hostility?

PJ · Post by PJ » Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:22 pm

x why z wrote:...A group of people officially delegated...

...is what Hell is.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:34 pm

PJ wrote:
x why z wrote:...A group of people officially delegated...

...is what Hell is.

It's also corporate Amerika....your group has been officially delegated to train your replacements in...of all places, Tulsa, OK! Instead of offshoring to India, my job looks like it will be replaced by Oklahomans!!!!!!

Back to the thread, with a group of 30,000 to represent, a committee will bog down so fast. And no matter what is decided, someone's going to bitch and whine that it wasn't fair.

If Larry decides it, it's over. No bullshit, just a whimper or two, and then everyone scrambles like mad to build around the theme. Sometimes absolute power is a good thing. Sometimes.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:58 pm

design by committe:watered down, drag ass, shitty design

this is shown over and over and over and over and over and over.

if you want an event that is democratically controlled, may I suggest you start one. I put forth the motion that you organize this event and that it be called 'committee man'. All in favor say 'aye'.

PJ · Post by PJ » Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:04 pm

Kinetic wrote:...group has been officially delegated to train your replacements in...of all places, Tulsa, OK! Instead of offshoring to India, my job looks like it will be replaced by Oklahomans!

That's kind of a shame. Oklahomans don't even have an amusing accent you can make fun of. Also you miss out on a paid trip to India. India is...Different.

III · Post by **III** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:08 pm

i think it's a great idea, with one proviso:

in order to be selected, a theme needs to recieve the majority of votes. if no one particular idea gets a majority of votes, there will be no theme for that year...

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:10 pm

Don't you get it?

You're spinning your wheels.

Go to the dictionary and look up 'preogative' then put it in a sentence like, um, "It's Larry Harvey's fucking preogative to assign the theme as he sees fit without having to consult any of us."

x why z · Post by **x why z** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:30 pm

Badger wrote:Don't you get it?

You're spinning your wheels.

Go to the dictionary and look up 'preogative' then put it in a sentence like, um, "It's Larry Harvey's fucking preogative to assign the theme as he sees fit without having to consult any of us."

Larry Harvey also makes statements like the following, copied from an article in the Reno Gazette:

Harvey readily acknowledges his vision sounds grandiose.

“But I know what we can accomplish,” he said, overlooking the fleeting, illusionary city that sprang up from five square miles of desert. “In the fullness of time, maybe this will disappear — because it will have served its purpose. The children will have left the nursery.”

I think that mild ring of condescension is directed exactly at the kind of attitude summed up by Badger.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:31 pm

x why z is right -- a committee is NOT a vote. One person proffers and the crowd gives a thumbs up or thumbs down. No helpful suggestions like maybe we should change "dog" to "cat", ect. It's an interesting idea. How would it work? Could anyone suggest a theme and then have it voted on? Would we see a list of suggested themes and be allowed to vote on that? I don't know. I'm still thinking of projects for beyond belief. Last year I thought of my project before the theme was announced, it's no big deal in my mind, perhaps it just makes it easier to award art grants.

And for what its worth, I don't think x why z is a dipshit.

I voted no, because for some reason I thought it was asking if "topics" for the eplaya should be voted on. I guess we could all stand to improve our reading comprehension.

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:46 pm

Ok, assume that a committee is not a vote, and that a vote is what XYZ means. Someone still has to come up with the things to be voted on. So, either 1) the voters make suggestions (a committee) or 2) someone arbitrarily comes up with a bunch of ideas for the populace to vote on. Now, with 2) that can be one person, or it can be more than one, which is a committee. If it's one person, it may just as well be Larry Harvey. Otherwise, it's a committee, and we're back to a previously solved topic.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:16 pm

My new personal crusade

BurningMan Theme Free in 2004!

as god is my witless.

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:19 pm

blyslv wrote:BurningMan Theme Free in 2004!

Gotta admit, that would be a draw.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 4:09 pm

> a little critical consideration of alternative ways of doing things.

We're just disagreeing with you. No rain cloud.

Hana Hou · Post by **Hana Hou** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 4:17 pm

And when you tell 'em you want to pick the theme yourself, tell 'em that *I* want pizza fucking delivery, too. Shit, why should we have to bring our own food to the damn desert?

theme authorship

Should the theme be put to a community-wide vote?

theme authorship

Re: theme authorship