What do you hate about the rave scene in BRC?

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:15 pm

I'd start by determining exactly what types of music you'd like to hear - establish a range. " I want X - Y." If you a narrower selection or music, bands are the way to go. If you want a wide variety of music, get a dj/dj's. You must know what you want to hear, though, so you can start narrowing your search.

Both bands and dj's have sound equipment - some have shoddier equipment than others. For your purposes, the shoddier, the better. Naturally, the more people you recruit, the more resources will be available to pool. Let everyone know you're planning a musical diversity camp. Make a theme camp of it. My doctoral thesis is going to be on the correlation between Superstrings (pertaining to the nature of matter) and the human-detectible range of sound. Sound effects the mind, spirit, and matter. It's legitimate. You could submit a theme camp proposal on something similar. Music and the Mind - whatever. It's an example. What you really have is a music appreciation camp. 24 hours a day, you play whatever you want to hear, ostensibly using borrowed sound. Take a big roll of paper, some wood backing, and a bunch of paint and tell people to draw what they experience through the music. There's your gimmick.

After the Burn, go display the roll at some art gallery. Become famous. Make lots of money. Buy me a Vespa.

If all else fails, there's always swap meets, ebay, craig's list, obtanium.net...Sound is accessible, though, to be certain.

This is the best I could come up with off the cuff. I'll write back if I come up with something better.

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:19 pm

Inspired in part by this thread, you can eat ravers in a new Burning PacMan game. Here's the link to download the beta for free:
http://www.mutantvehicle.com/burning_pac_man.htm

'scuse the cross post as I started a thread on it at:
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=8134

Enjoy.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:02 am

Fat SAM wrote:I'd start by determining exactly what types of music you'd like to hear - establish a range. " I want X - Y." If you a narrower selection or music, bands are the way to go.

Oh, in case you are wondering, yes I'm still hoping to win the lottery so I can bring Brave Combo to the playa. With trashable instruments and a sound system and a dance floor and even if needed some cuties to teach polka. It will never happen, but this is my "if I had an unlimited bm budget" dream.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:09 am

trashable

moop

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:12 am

Honey, I'd never ask Carl Finch to bring his good accordian to the playa.

I suppose if I'm bringing everything else, I'll provide MOOP services as well. I'm a good girl in fantasy. . .

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:18 am

"...Sir, I don't have a golden toilet seat, and you must be the man who mooped in my tuba!"

Nightterror · Post by **Nightterror** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:25 pm

Umm - I hate people using the word "hate" in their topic!

ThePikey · Post by **ThePikey** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:37 pm

Okaaayyyyy... one of the problems mentioned here (Badger and Isotopia in particular, methinks) was that the sound camps tend to generate vast amounts of MOOP. Some of it sounds like jackassery (cigarette butts in particular) but most of it sounds like simple carelessness or people being unaware. They're dancing around, and a glowstick or some blinky junk falls off a costume because they're jumping around and dancing and just don't notice it, and then it gets ground underfoot.

(Side note: if anecdotes are correct and the ravers are relative noobs to the playa, they may also have costumes that are mebbe a little more likely to shed MOOP.)

In any rate, here is A Modest Proposal (all appologies to J. Swift)

Would it be possible to set up some sort of requirement for sound camps to set up some sort of plan for MOOP disposal? Put it somewhere in the theme camp application process, make it all up front. Set it up so that groups who that leave massive amounts of MOOP behind won't be approved for theme camp status next year. Put the cleanup onus on the people hosting the event. That way the camp members either pick stuff up, or better yet they have some sort of 'event' to clean up debris. (ex: "We're having a cleanup from 3-4pm on saturday, if you've enjoyed our music please come by and help pick up MOOP." or somesuch.) This way you encourage a little extra personal responsibility from the camps and maybe get a little more contribution from the audience.

But this raises two questions:
1) Is this feasible? Is it something that can be made to work? Can we get a cleaner playa out of this as well as actually enforce some sort of judgement over those who flout it? (Maybe this would be better as a *suggestion* than a rule. If it works through social pressure, that might be better than trying to make it work through rules and regs.)
2) Would instituting this cause more problems than it solves? Already a lot of people are chafing at the paperwork and bureaucracy and whatnot, and some of those folks are leaving the playa. Would this cause more bad feelings and speed the exodus? Would it be perceived as fair? (Maybe it should apply to ALL theme camps, not just sound camps) And who would make the decision as to which camps are out of line?

I don't know if this would work or not. I'm just throwing it out for people to tear up or chew over as you will. (Hell, for all I know, there already *IS* something like this, damifino.)

Anyways. Discuss.

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:48 pm

It's feasible, but singling out one group seems unfair. I think that it should be a requisite for everyone, as you say. I think the idea of having a cleanup-event might not work for the simple fact that a lot of people just don't care to invest time in helping others -- even on the Playa...putting that level of responsibility on camps seems like a great idea, though. Rules and regulations are something people bitch about, sure, but confronting people with the potential consequences of their negative actions is fine. It's been clearly demonstrated that it doesn't work by social pressure.

Deciding who is out of line would be easy - you simply base it on evidence. Everyone is capable of missing a little something occasionally, but if a camp manages to leave some inordinate amount of crap then there should be some penalty.

I think it's a good idea.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:03 am

ThePikey wrote:....Would it be possible to set up some sort of requirement for sound camps to set up some sort of plan for MOOP disposal? Put it somewhere in the theme camp application process, make it all up front....

Cleanup plans are already a part of the application process for all theme camps. AFAIK, some violators do get busted either by being read the riot act or by failing to get placed as theme camps the following year, but as you may guess this wouldn't prevent ravers in general from camping at the 2:00 and 10:00 ends. And garbage wasn't the only issue discussed above.

Alex_uk · Post by **Alex_uk** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:52 pm

i understand why people dont seem to like the rave camps but i will reserve my comments until i have experienced it myself....i plan to spend a couple of bm nights bouncing about a bit.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:06 pm

A few weeks before I left for the 04 burn, I met a girl from Germany who had just arrived in SF, never been to the US before. I was hanging out with campmates and talk (as it always does) got around to BM. We asked if she had heard of BM and she replied that she had indeed heard about the techno festival in the desert. I almost spit beer out my nose. I had to inform her that it was just a camping trip, and to go back and tell all her friends the same.

I like it when someone says 'all i heard was techno' and someone else replies, 'well, i heard bass beats, and trance, and drum whatever, and hippy hoppy goa whatsit, and house, and so on'. That just cracks me up.
All techno sounds the same if you're not accustomed to hearing it all the time (same with Jazz or Classical or many other genres), so you'd think after 6 burns I'd know the difference between trance and break beats.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:17 pm

Well, going out with friends and hitting dance camps can be fun, but in truth you don't need a camp to do that. True, it makes it a little more convenient but to me the best dancing I did last year was spontaneous — we'd be out ranging, chance across a drum circle, and go for it.

What I don't like about it is that the rave camps seem to be pushing everything else out. Maybe I'm old-fashioned but electronic beats tend to lose their charm after a little while, while a set of drums, a gamelan, et alia, is always interesting.

Agree that we need some diversity. A couple years ago I camped next to someone who had a full-scale, amplified, live band in their camp and they made music every day. The instruments were pretty much everything from a theremin to an electric cello. Beautiful stuff. Unfortunately we were also a couple dozen yards from fucking DisOrient and they couldn't play at night on account of those guys

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:19 pm

jaydub wrote: All techno sounds the same if you're not accustomed to hearing it all the time (same with Jazz or Classical or many other genres), so you'd think after 6 burns I'd know the difference between trance and break beats.

Yeah. That's hilarious stuff. Of course all "techno" sounds the same. And like you say, so do jazz and classical.

Obviously a music lover.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:50 pm

I do dig techno (using it as an all encompasing term here) although I admit I'm not too good at identifying the different styles. The only problem I have with the rave scene in BRC has been described here already. The fact that you hear it pretty much everywhere and all the time. Those damn kids with their loud fancy amplifiers!! (shaking fist like ornery old bastard).

However, after all the times I've gone I just take it as part of the scene and deal with it. It's fun to bitch about but it's not going away. It's also fun to hang out and groove to from time to time, it's just not my first choice for 24/7 music. In fact, I don't think I want to hear any music 24/7.

As far as clean up of those sites... from what I've read it sounds like some camps need to take more responsibility when it come to leave no trace. Maybe it has to do with the fact that these camps get tons of people hanging out and it's hard for the people who are part of that camp to clean up after everyone that stopped by throughout the week. But, if that's the kind of camp you want to be, then step up and deal with the consequences of it. Maybe if you're a frequent visitor to a particular camp or area, spend a few hours Monday cleaning up there as well as your own camp.

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:22 am

Okay... WTF people. Why are you all knocking people who like Electronic Dance Music? Last I checked they brought some really incredible and creative camps to the playa. Anybody remember the Sol System Sol Henge, or the sonic pyramids out back? For me those are two of my favorite things I saw there. Do you all really think that you'd get so much creativity out of folk music, or rock and roll, or hip hop, or whatever type of music? What is it you want exactly? Dead silence on the playa after the sun goes down? You want people partying, just to your type of music instead of the type of music they listen to?

Stop your whining about the "ravers." They are creative, the rave camps work hard to bring a lot to the playa, and they do maintain a sense of celebration after the sun has gone down.

Honestly do you think that if Rock and Roll became the dominate music at the event you wouldn't hear people whining about "the rockers" and how they bring nothing to the playa but bad costumes from Mad Max, and air guitar. AIR GUITAR PEOPLE!!!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:34 am

MoisturePup wrote:...the rave camps work hard to bring a lot to the playa...

On that point I'd agree.

ThePikey · Post by **ThePikey** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:09 pm

The problem isn't the music. I mean, I like it. Well, some of it anyways. Enough so that it's not an issue.

And I definitely dig the structures. They definitely put up a lot of impressive venues/camps/installations.

How to put this...

METAPHOR TIME:

Let's pick a food (music) I like. Pizza. (electronica) There's lots of different kinds of pizza out there. Deep dish, thin 'n' crispy crust, a wide variety of sauces and toppings available. (house, trance, drum 'n' bass, goa, etc.) I can easily eat (listen to) pizza several times a week. But I don't want to eat pizza (listen to elec) three times a day for seven days straight. I'd like to periodically get my hands on some burgers, or bbq, a curry, mebbe some sushi. (classic rock, indie, jazz, world music, what have you)

I'm not saying "Pizza sucks! Burn down the pizzarias and chase all the Italians out of town! Grrr!" It's more like, "Dude, I wish there was a bit more variety in the friggin' food court."

(Mayhaps the thread title 'What do you hate about the rave scene...' is a bit more inflamatory than was really intended...)

jimbobby · Post by **jimbobby** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:50 pm

I don't want to eat pizza three times a day for seven days straight

freak

ThePikey · Post by **ThePikey** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:38 pm

jimbobby wrote:freak

Oh, c'mon jb. Try a curry every now and then. It'll put hair on your chest.

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:17 am

ThePikey wrote:The problem isn't the music. I mean, I like it. Well, some of it anyways. Enough so that it's not an issue.

And I definitely dig the structures. They definitely put up a lot of impressive venues/camps/installations.

How to put this...

METAPHOR TIME:

Let's pick a food (music) I like. Pizza. (electronica) There's lots of different kinds of pizza out there. Deep dish, thin 'n' crispy crust, a wide variety of sauces and toppings available. (house, trance, drum 'n' bass, goa, etc.) I can easily eat (listen to) pizza several times a week. But I don't want to eat pizza (listen to elec) three times a day for seven days straight. I'd like to periodically get my hands on some burgers, or bbq, a curry, mebbe some sushi. (classic rock, indie, jazz, world music, what have you)

I'm not saying "Pizza sucks! Burn down the pizzarias and chase all the Italians out of town! Grrr!" It's more like, "Dude, I wish there was a bit more variety in the friggin' food court."

(Mayhaps the thread title 'What do you hate about the rave scene...' is a bit more inflamatory than was really intended...)

Okay, but is there really a lack of other music on the playa, or is it perhaps that other types of music don't need such massive sound installations? I'm not sure I can quite see unassuming folk music going for the sensory overload of massive speaker systems, light shows, etc... I think I do recall after the man burning this year attending some vegas like fire spectacular that had plenty of rock and roll .

d6 · Post by d6 » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:11 am

musick at our camp is in addition to the screens, so it was all manner of ambience, even though you could hear the Hookadome in the near-distance, which usually added to our own audio terror efforts.

we never tired of our neighbor-camps' looped "Super-duper-pooper" audio/video, which sadly was unceremoniously pulled due to censorship?

A couple years back, someone yelled at one of our camps founders, "NICE ACID-WASH, FAG, THIS IS BURNING MAN",
(this as we were leaving the glam-rock offerings of HOTT LIXX)

disguised as a "dj"(?), one of my favorite brc memories was playing in 2002 in the friday storm, having the mantis and all manner of wanderers in a dancing frenzy, as I was offering up mo-wax, prog-tracks, breaks, euro-techno, and loads of samples.
For myself, dancing @ Tonka years ago with not a vocal to be heard remains tops. oh, Hybrid and freq nasty = "exxccellent" as well. and then theres kid beyond, XTRA ACTION, lounge-acts and just about anything you'd care to find.
If I encountered "bad-to'my-ears"sounds, like I wasn't digging the GnR parked next to my head, the ghosbusters theme-song, the SH!TTY House music, painfully unrhythmic drum circles, most of the disco, and most of the the classic rock, I'd somehow enable myself to move on, just as people who might have loved our screens, but hated the "musick" would / should do.

What I dislike about any camps, rave or otherwise, will always be the filth left behind, and stupor-induced forgetfullness only counts for so much,

EX:water bottle goes on the ground next to glowy-blinky-thing-next to backpack next to clothing-discarded costume-attempt- next to passed-out individual next to wet spot next to food containers next to butts, (sometimes humans) next to pillow-like fabrics next to glass next to construction materials next to 50 gallon barrel full of what seems to be a blood-like substance......

Real problems in the world people, pick something more valid to bitch about than droppin ravers and what a drag burning man has become.
You don't like something, then do it yourself in the truest bionic (bigger stronger faster) sense.
That'll learn 'em, dabgummit.

d6,
mindless drone.

My cats breath smells like cat food.

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:46 am

I'm so glad that the pizza metaphor was so well explained, and so many times, too. I never would have gotten it with my mind (which is so like scrambled eggs [I metaphor which I'll simply allow you to interpret] from overexposure to black lights, strobes, hypnotic beats, and habitual abuse of mind bending amphetamine derivatives that) in its current state.

All of the stereotypes are true. In fact, I didn't even write this. If I had, the syntax and spelling would be predictably attrocious. I didn't even say any of this. I sort of mumbled out some garbled crap and this guy I invited over (a REAL burner) translated and edited for content and then typed it in...Yeah. (Man. The implications of that are staggering when you really start interpreting it..."Do not make the mistake of thinking that I am the person who is speaking to you now) And as he typed the words you are reading (all the while, sadly shaking his head), I engaged in terrific acts of conspicuous consumption - plastic wands, blow pops, and all sorts of trash are heaped around me - discarded haphazardly in the way that only a raver would discard trash. All over the place. I'm filthing up the joint.

Hi, Darren. How's your girl? And where the hell did you move off to? Oakland?

*This post seems combative because it is. I just got off work (and had quite the STRONG shifter, may I say) and I'm feeling rather surly. Almost uncouth. Oh my.

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:50 am

Fucking typos. It ruins the whole snotty tone of my post and just creates this pathetic irony. DAMMIT.

*[ A metaphor which I'll simply allow you to interpret] from overexposure to black lights, strobes, hypnotic beats, and habitual abuse of mind bending amphetamine derivatives *this phrase is supposed to end here*

d6 · Post by d6 » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:02 am

Hey Sam

I'd like to add a couple of things to what you posted previously -

We did a "How does sound influence" night in the bruka basement a few years back - they supplied a wide variety of art supplies, I went off the deep-end mixing-wise, with all of the redundant genres (acid/tech:?no!/classical/lounge/sub-frequencies/any and everything, and people just interpreted it into their own particular form of "artistic creation"which they then took home with them (in most cases)
- it was very interesting as a form of "experimentation", and I'd love to do it again.

The influence of sound on human action/environment is why I am fascinated by sound in general, so it'd be very interesting to read your final draft.

We have also gone out to the post-clean-up days, to find barely anything,
(we actually find more "new" trash when we go to camp out there during the summer - beer-drinking, guns and littering - an unbreakable bond?)

dpw gets the initial carnage taken care of, including my favorite left-behind item "1 50 gal. drum of blood(?) and womanly items" - as reported by TPR/dpw honcho*,
it is a mystery to me how some attendees can leave sh!t anywhere and everywhere, despite the "pack it in pack it out" mantra, and the trash on saturday night is more and more discouraging....

No, didn't move to Oakland, just have been in that "bay area" for many small stretches, mainly for her surgery, which went better than expected- we head back soon for more medical excitement, thanks for asking!

Am still Re:?No!- based, in almost full hermit-mode, and slowly been building 'Robotronia' for BRC 2005, which will feature a weeks' worth of "less music, more sound" which augments the 3 all new interactive screens (as oppossed to the usual 1), The Munzbot-few-thousand, and a 15ft robot centurion.
Some cohesive beats will be heard at our camp, but not many, so if you're heading out this year, and want to hear sound explorations, drop-on-by.

db
[email protected]

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:05 pm

d6 wrote: The influence of sound on human action/environment is why I am fascinated by sound in general, so it'd be very interesting to read your final draft.

I *really* like your perception on this d6, goes a long way to changing those negative opinions that people have.

We have also gone out to the post-clean-up days, to find barely anything,(we actually find more "new" trash when we go to camp out there during the summer - beer-drinking, guns and littering - an unbreakable bond?)
...
it is a mystery to me how some attendees can leave sh!t anywhere and everywhere, despite the "pack it in pack it out" mantra, and the trash on saturday night is more and more discouraging....

Definately agree with you there, voulenteers spend too much time cleaning up after other's mess and am sure the DPW appreciate your work.

You are definately improving my perception of rave camps, wish more would attempt to be as creative as you are.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:27 pm

ThePikey wrote:
jimbobby wrote:freak
Oh, c'mon jb. Try a curry every now and then. It'll put hair on your chest.

Dang. So that's what happened.

dj_john69 · Post by **dj_john69** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:46 pm

Wow...i was just talking about TONKA earlier...crazy.

Hey...does anyone remember back in the day when B.M. used to set up the MAIN STAGE ?? It was live music...loud as fuck. Only 2 raves..one North and one South.

Ahhhhhhhhh......memories.

~John

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:15 pm

I remember when the rave camp was two miles away.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:28 pm

The Fucking Echs should be free like what the hay? BM is about sharing and not makings a cheap profit. Hey what kind of dealer are you? Some cheap ass Lincoln Tunnel pusher. Share the shit!

AIIZ

What do you hate about the rave scene in BRC?

Burning PacMan eats ravers

theres no emoticon for what i'm feeling