An invitation to find the truth...

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:02 pm

Howdy fellow burners,

This is an invitation to join me in a search for Truth (with a capitol T).

I've started a website called http://CollectiveTruth.org, who's aim is this search. It's success is dependent on massive participation, so I'd like to invite you (the coolest people on the planet) to participate.

The concept is simple: It's a wiki, so anyone who visits the Site can *edit* the Site. My thinking is that as more people edit and add to it, the content will most likely become more truth-like.

Please visit http://CollectiveTruth.org and add, edit, delete as you see fit.

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:14 pm

some moron added a worthless vulgar comment to the site. thanks, dipshit.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:23 pm

some moron added a worthless vulgar comment to the site. thanks, dipshit.

If you feel that way about what was posted on your site, how about what you wrote here?

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:26 pm

good point - i appologize. i was upset that something that could be so cool, could also be so easily ruined by morons.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:50 pm

InsideNow wrote:good point - i appologize. i was upset that something that could be so cool, could also be so easily ruined by morons.

although i dont agree with what they did, self-promotion on another board is sometimes met with criticism.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:01 pm

insidenow:

i was upset that something that could be so cool, could also be so easily ruined by morons.

yes, on e-playa - you'll often find that the community is not as inclusive and kind as on the playa, and in other real-life burner gatherings.

if you plan on sticking around, decide if you want to fall in line with the often biting and insipid community standards, or call bullshit when you see it. or, like so many many many other burners who come here, don't return.

bronco

III · Post by **III** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:40 pm

you'll also find that wiki pages are open to a lot of spam. that's even worse.

my take on it would be (not that i've looked at it yet) that the new material was a demonstration of the truth that not everything people have to say is always true. in particular, it works at a meta level, not only invalidating itself, but also the premise under which you've presented it.

as that goes, it's quite the accomplishment.

on a technical note, as someone who was involved on the original c2 wiki, and has maintained a personal wiki for about 3 years now, it takes a lot of maintenance. expecting human kind to not screw around when they get the chance to is blinding yourself to one of the basic truths of nature.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:23 pm

thanks, 3, for bringing this out-of-control thread back on topic. it's people like you who make this community so strong. you really are a great member.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:09 am

Okay, so, Insidenow. I just went over and read the articles about "pain and suffering." And "Time, space, and reality." Now, if I were going to "edit" these articles in the interest of truth, I would have to either completely erase and rewrite them, or negate all of the verbs (change is to is not, et cetera.) Perhaps you could enlighten us here or there as to what exactly constitutes "Truth," and "Knowledge?" The things I'm reading over there are things I classify under "Dogma." How do you plan to handle radically differing, even contradictory views of truth?

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:53 am

InsideNow wrote:good point - i appologize. i was upset that something that could be so cool, could also be so easily ruined by morons.

Essense of truth, man. Essense of truth.

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:48 am

First, thank you to everyone who has commented here and who has contributed to the CollectiveTruth project thus far.

Since posting this forum topic (yesterday) I've discovered more about this process than in the last couple months of simply telling everyone I know and trying to get them involved.

Ranger Genius wrote:How do you plan to handle radically differing, even contradictory views of truth?

Ranger Genius,

My only interest in starting this experiment was an ongoing dialog (aimed at finding the Truth together), and to see what results come of that. So I was fully prepared for anyone to completely re-write the articles.

But perhaps a more useful answer to this question comes from my old Philosophy Professor, who wrote back to me about the project today. He thinks that the Site needs a voting system for opposing views:

My Professor wrote:I like your idea of reaching truth collectively, but I am sure you realize that there is a problem with trying to do it on a Web site. As it stands, the last person can undo the contributions of all previous participants. What I would like to see is a way of voting on controversial claims, so you could keep track of what percentage agree with each point of view. It would be especially important not only to vote on the major conclusions, but to be able to vote on the reasons given for and against those conclusions.

This would be a wonderful idea, but I don't know how to implement. Maybe for now, we could use the "discussion" tab for the proposal of contradictory ideas. Then if the new idea is more widely received we move it to the "article" tab.

I'll leave it to you, RG, as there is no formal process in place at this time. Feel free to completely re-write or begin a discussion...

Thank you again for your participation in this experiment!

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:05 pm

There's a ridiculously false assumption there that the truth is somehow democratic. Popular acceptance does not have anything to do with the veracity of a claim. (insert obligatory argument about previous popular beliefs regarding the shape of the Earth).

Is popular acceptance all it takes to make truth?

With the current setup, the only way for anything to stay in the article would be for it to be as diplomatic as possible...so that no one would see any reason to change it. In essence, it cannot contradict anyone's perceptions of the world around them, which 1) is practically impossible, and 2) would contradict everything that experience has shown us about how people's carefully constructed bubbles of mythology react when confronted with truth, especially uncomfortable truths.

With the proposed change, "truth" would be completely subject to popular opinion, which simply doesn't happen. If you were to flip a coin, cover it with the palm of your hand, and then take a vote as to whether it fell heads or tails, the outcome of the vote would not change the position of the coin. Essentially, what I'm saying is that truth falls outside the bounds of popular opinion, and experience has shown that it often runs contrary to it, especially where religious and/or spiritual beliefs are concerned. I'll contributed a few thoughts concerning the nature of truth and knowledge to your page once I finish composing them.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:08 pm

i once saw the truth at burning man, in a porta potty.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:20 pm

"If it didn't come out of your body..."

Rabbi Dali Rick · Post by **Rabbi Dali Rick** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:46 pm

That would have been mine but since it was no longer the truth I shat it out with the rest of my old truths.....

"Be prepared to be part of someone else's experience."

quite possibly,
the rebbi

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:57 pm

http://www.spiritrock.org/
http://www.nisargadatta.net/
http://www.sanskritstudies.org/order.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 77-6200064
http://www.lifepositive.com/spirit/mast ... nanda.html
http://www.chinmayamission
http://www.cwg.org/

better said than I…….

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:00 pm

oh and this too.
this was Elvis' favorite book...no kidding, and it's even on-line
http://pure-research.net/healing/bestill/

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:04 pm

How could I forget Catherine????

http://www.geocities.com/~cathing/

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:06 pm

some are here some are gone some walk the planet right now...if you want the "BIG KAHUNA" all you gotta do is really really want it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:02 pm

i REALLY want the BIG KAHUNA... i know it's a a good thing to sort of go-for. i've been thinking a lot lately about what in life is good to go-for... like here in DC we have these little black squirrels (they're rare, but here they're all over the goddamn place) and i was sitting in the kalorama triangle park the other day - and a sware to fucking-god, that a red fox came up to me on that little bench, and stopped and looked at me. and the beast had a little black squirrel in its mouth - and the squirrel and i made eye contact and it said to me, 'look... you can save me - you can save me if you justs Go-For-It... '

so i really want the Big Kahuna, but i really don't want to get wet in the process. i'd love to surf or get really involved in some cool thing if only there was a plan i could sign up for that limited my responsibiity in case things went terribly fucking bad - like that cute little squirrel... do you see what i'm saying?

it's not about what you think it's about. it's about something totally different, and usually involves gun-powder more than it involves E or A or C.

i just hope we can all get along.

b.

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:26 pm

Ranger Genius wrote:There's a ridiculously false assumption there that the truth is somehow democratic.

This is very good dialog, and I'm excited about the level of thought and participation you're giving this. I'm not certain that this is a ridiculous idea, though.

It's not about popular opinion or a democracy. I fully agree that popular opinion is often no where near the truth, but I'm not looking for popular opinion. Popular opinion is usually based on blind acceptance in the absence of critical thought.

The success of the project is predicated on the assumption that participants will be *thinking* about the exchange of ideas and be open to changing their minds about what they thought was true.

So it's not that a consensus vote would someone confer truth upon a previously un-true statement. It's that as we go back and forth and work at this together, we *find* the truth in between what each individual participant thought it was before participating.

My hope is that people will:
1. read what's there
2. think about it
3. decide if they think it's true or not
4. then add, edit, or delete based on 1 - 3.

And over time, I honestly believe that what we come up together with will be closer to the truth than what any one of us could come up with alone.

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:31 pm

thank you cowboyangel for the recomendations.

please contribute to the CollectiveTruth Experiment

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:31 pm

Dude, all I said was that my nuts itched, and it was The Truth.

If you unblock my IP, I can share some more Truth with you.

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:33 pm

bronco, who is the squirrel and who's the fox?

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:36 pm

Patience wrote:Dude, all I said was that my nuts itched, and it was The Truth.

If you unblock my IP, I can share some more Truth with you.

LOL! I'm not interested in your momentary, and personally relevant, true statements. I'm looking for the CollectiveTruth!

Patience · Post by **Patience** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:38 pm

I'm not interested in your momentary, and personally relevant, true statements.

Guess what, chief? That's all there is.

Cabanasprings · Post by **Cabanasprings** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:48 pm

InsideNow wrote:
Patience wrote:Dude, all I said was that my nuts itched, and it was The Truth.

If you unblock my IP, I can share some more Truth with you.
LOL! I'm not interested in your momentary, and personally relevant, true statements. I'm looking for the CollectiveTruth!

Why don't you call it -

"The collective of people that think exactly as I do Truth"

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:49 pm

i'll unblock your ip if you want to contribute that idea to the project.

InsideNow · Post by **InsideNow** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:51 pm

Cabanasprings wrote:
Why don't you call it -

"The collective of people that think exactly as I do Truth"

looks like you posted this in between my last post to patience. apparently, that's not what im after. ;-)

Cabanasprings · Post by **Cabanasprings** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:53 pm

InsideNow wrote:i'll unblock your ip if you want to contribute that idea to the project.

"I'll unblock it if you add what I tell you to. And contribute only what I want you to cause I want this to my truth not your truth" - "oh wait it's a collective truth - huummmmm - i guess I better look that up - ummmmm- collective."

An invitation to find the truth...

An invitation to find the truth...

i guess all burners aren't cool

thanks!

there is no truth, just perceptions of what is true

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............

big