Carport advice?

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:22 am

Anti M's fuss-budget mode:

You were lucky, the feet on the Costco carports are good, but they aren't that good. The instructions say so specifically. We nail our feet down too, but always guy down. What's the thinking on that? Larry and I have been through real typhoons, and have learned emergency preparedness for extreme weather conditions in the military. The winds on the playa have been rather mild in comparision to something trying to pluck up anything not seriously tied down. Better overprepared and oversecured than to have a shelter sailing across the playa.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:23 am

CdnChick wrote:STRONGLY RECOMMEND: Go to your local hardware store and pickup extras of the little components that come with the tent as well as a variety of bungees. There's nothing worse than getting to the playa and finding out you're missing pieces!!

That, and, what everyone should do with their camp: do a dress rehearsal setup. It brings out a lot of issues that are easier to deal with before you get there.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:56 pm

I don't make a checklist of every last granola bar and water jug that I pack for the trip....but I DO make a comprehensive list of the components of my structure and include spares of all hardware. I have a geodesic monstrosity instead of a Costco Carportus, and there are a couple of pieces that, in their absence, would make putting it up impossible.

calsur · Post by **calsur** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:06 am

I did a Costco carport last year and here are my memories.

I think like AntiM, disaster is a wind gust away so the first thing I do is put some rebar in the ground with guys attached. I then use this as my construction stakes when I put up the port. I retie these each time I get a major part done so my efforts do not go away.

My BIG mistake was to not nail the feet down. The 8 one foot rebar’s with guys attached worked perfectly but the feet moved around by a couple of feet letting more of the playa than I wanted into my structure.

Watch out for the little bungee cords. I mashed a thumb 2 hours into my playa experience and had to deal with it the whole time out there.

More hands are better if you have practice erecting it together.

Take a bale of wire to replace the keeper clips you loose. The keeper clip is that little round wire that threads through the end of the pins that hold your structure together. The port probably will not collapse but I sleep better knowing the pin is secure.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:19 am

I have a car port with bolts and nuts at each joint. It's going to anew home next yard sale. The one I have now has spring loaded pins. When I set it up in the yard I used a short "rubber"bungee around the horizontal pole to attach each guy line. It needs a little give. This affords it just right.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:21 am

I have a car port with bolts and nuts at each joint. It's going to anew home next yard sale. The one I have now has spring loaded pins. When I set it up in the yard I used a short "rubber"bungee around the horizontal pole to attach each guy line. It needs a little give. This affords it just right.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:48 pm

Here's what our camp has done the last 5 years of costco carports. Put them up and drive a concrete spike 18-24" long about 12" into the Playa next to each leg and then use good Duct tape and tape the hell out of them I use 1 roll for each carport. I also cover the top part of the spike to not cut one's leg.. NEVER had guy lines and NEVER had any worries. A good pair of VISE GRIPS to twist the spikes out is a good idea.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:07 pm

For the last two years, we've used a carport we bought off ebay -- you get the four corner connectors, bungee cords, and the top tarp; we also bought one end tarp (covers the Vee in the peak roof down to the ground) and one side tarp. We bought the piping used for cyclone fence toprails and a little pipe cutter (it's pocket-sized in my cargo pants) to cut to the length we need.

On the playa, we set it up, then I drive rebar in next to the legs, then we lift the carport and set the legs over the rebar. No guywires, no problems so far with wind. (Fingers crossed, knocking on wood.) One of the reasons for confidence in the rebar-in-the-legs approach is that I never get the rebar straight in, so it's a bit of a struggle to get the four legs over the rebar and down onto the ground. Sort of a built-in spring tension.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:11 am

I personally think the rebar-only no-guys is poor advice. I wish I were eloquent enough to explain the physics, but basically the wind pulls up on the canopy from underneath, a wind tunnel effect. Rebar in the legs provides a sturdy base against a lot of wind, but pull hard enough and it will come out of the ground. Guys provide a downward force to counter the wind's pull.

Help! I need a science geek to explain this concept!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:15 am

AntiM wrote:I personally think the rebar-only no-guys is poor advice. I wish I were eloquent enough to explain the physics, but basically the wind pulls up on the canopy from underneath, a wind tunnel effect. Rebar in the legs provides a sturdy base against a lot of wind, but pull hard enough and it will come out of the ground. Guys provide a downward force to counter the wind's pull.

Help! I need a science geek to explain this concept!

~
The person is right about the rebar in the legs. The port can move around and rub the paint off your van. They need side guys to keep the lift down. 30° angle is recomended from the horizontal pole to the ground and the same angle on the rebar away from the guy line. Remebering the wind of 01 I would tie off at each leg. Also two at right angles on the end poles. I use a square pop-up shelter. Rebar the legs and tie at each corner. Ending up with eight tie downs. If the wind gets one of those thing it can fuck your car up along with other damage.

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:22 am

[quote]I personally think the rebar-only no-guys is poor advice. I wish I were eloquent enough to explain the physics, but basically the wind pulls up on the canopy from underneath, a wind tunnel effect[quote]

I'm willing to listen, but having the wind pull up on the canopy from underneath isn't floating my boat, so to speak. :-> That sounds like it may be a possibility with a flat roof shade with no side flaps -- wind would blow faster over the top than the bottom and create lift with little or no force against the edge of the tarp. My shade has a peaked roof, with a side flap that faces the predominant wind and extends into the peak. See photo at
http://www.civex.com/carShelter.jpg

The wind blows not only over my roof, but into the flap, pushing all four legs against the rebar. If it makes you happy, I'll tie a line from the connector on top of the leg down to the rebar the leg sits on, so that the leg is less likely to be lifted off the rebar.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:41 am

Two years ago we came in late in the day. We helped Grandfather set his car port. He was to tired to guy it. So he attached one side to his van and went to bed. I set and tied my shade. Bout two until three that morning the riped hell. I got up to check my lines. Then walked over to Grandfathers camp. The wind had stop and every thing was quiet. Then one big last gust hit. Damn carport took off. I grab a leg at about chest high. Then called for help from the camp across the street. THe thing was alraedy twisted so it would not come down. One leg was stuck into the slide door of the van traping the old man. With help I got it on over the van where we disassembled it in the dark. The next day with a lot of bad words, hammer and a welder we got it cocked up enough to use for the week. Had to scrap it after that. $500 damage to the van. I tie my shit down.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:46 am

I have much the same style carport, but it is 10x20. Even with the side and end walls sealed up, you can see the structure lifting in high winds. Like I said, I'm no physicist or aeronautical engineer, so I don't know the principals involved well enough to illustrate my point.

Heck, your shade structure, your decision. I'm not offended, just frustrated that I know something but can't describe it accurately.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:04 pm

This article concerns house construction, but I think the uplift part is what I'm thinking about:

http://www.statefarm.com/consumer/vhous ... adpath.htm

jbelson · Post by **jbelson** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:35 pm

Okay. I have a pep-boys carport that I just put up. My concern is that the interconecting poles just slide in, no cotter pin or locking button. My thought was to take some time and ducktape the loints together. Also to secure the feet with stakes and use guy lines in the corners. Also have the side walls that I'm gonna put up. I understand the need to secure things down out there, so you
Think that would be secure enough?

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:39 pm

Well, there's always nuclear winter to worry about ...

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:16 pm

my friends used fabric bags filled with dirt, hung by bungy cords to keep their carport on the ground... it has worked every year since we met in '99.

what ever you do... keep it simple, stoopid.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:26 pm

joel the ornery wrote:my friends used fabric bags filled with dirt, hung by bungy cords to keep their carport on the ground... it has worked every year since we met in '99.

what ever you do... keep it simple, stoopid.

~
We use plastic jugs/water to keep the tarps tight in the rainy winter. Rubed the dogs nose in the dirt for digging.

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:11 pm

We use plastic jugs/water to keep the tarps tight in the rainy winter. Rubed the dogs nose in the dirt for digging.

I used to use jugs of Jack Daniel, but it didn't last long enough. Anyone using jugs or bags, be aware that they swing, bungee cords are elastic and can really give you a pop if something fails and they let go.

On the house construction, yeah, one of them shows the lift I was talking about. Sliding, overturning, and lift. Sliding and overturning come from the direct force of the wind, and lift comes from the higher speed of the wind flowing over the peak -- just like aircraft wings. My theory is that the sliding force is greater than the lift. Overturning looks like my biggest problem -- having the windward side lift over the rebar.

As to another post, I have on occasion duct taped my loints, but I don't recommend it on the playa.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:12 pm

Duct taped your loins!?!? Youch!

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:23 pm

jbelson wrote:Okay. I have a pep-boys carport that I just put up. My concern is that the interconecting poles just slide in, no cotter pin or locking button. My thought was to take some time and ducktape the loints together. Also to secure the feet with stakes and use guy lines in the corners. Also have the side walls that I'm gonna put up. I understand the need to secure things down out there, so you
Think that would be secure enough?

From what I've heard from others, I think you would regret it. Why not drill some holes and throw in some bolts?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:44 pm

Duct taped loins with drilled holes and installed bolts!!?? Youch!!!

You guys *are* kinkiy, aren't you...

BBS

phil · Post by **phil** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:51 pm

Loints. Loints. Sheesh! you guys. Not loins. That's totally different.

But back on the topic at hand, has anybody used the screw in anchors from our inestimable Harbor Freight at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=92448

I tried some screw-in-the-ground stakes with big flat blades, and I couldn't get it started in the hard playa. This looks more like a screw which I could tap in a ways to get it started screwing. (Might keep antim from having a heart attack or something when my shade blows over onto her tent some fine night.)

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:26 pm

Did you try the "tire iron through the hole at the top" trick? We had a high ol' time with that, taking turns at taking turns while others from the camp sang, harmonicaed and drummed to provide a good working/spinning chant. When one turner got dizzy another would step up and keep it going. We had our ginormous kitchen shade parachute secured down in twenty minutes.

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:21 am

We use rebar that has been welded into "T" shapes. Our tent spikes are the big flat military surplus ones. But larry's got gorilla genetics and thinks he can muscle anything into place.

Ah Phil, we can lean our structures over on each other. It'd be cute.

phil · Post by **phil** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:46 pm

Ah Phil, we can lean our structures over on each other. It'd be cute

Well, alright, but let's not duct tape our loints, okay?

As to the tire iron through that hole at the top, I'm sorry to say I didn't even get that far. I could not even get the thing started in the ground. This was a dog leash stake, but it was not a spiral, corkscrew type. For a picture, see Bob Stahl's page at
http://www.geocities.com/potatotrap/tec ... m#building
(you'll need to page down a time or two -- ground anchors on a wooden pallet). That blade would not start into the ground for me.

By the way, Bob's page is a _wealth_ of information which I recommend most highly. Some of the links are bad, I'm sorry to say (the army riggers manual, e.g.), but that's the nature of the Internet.

Iago · Post by **Iago** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:07 am

The helical screw type anchors (as seen on Bob's page) just need a little extra help from an 8lb sledge hammer. It's easier with two people. One rotating with tire iron and the other hammering down on top of the eye. And it doesn't hurt to be singing 'I been working on the railroad' either. The ones I got were only about 24" long, 3 1/2" diameter and cost around $4 each. I drove it all the way in, put one next to each post (8) and ran a line to the upper cross members and another around the base of the pole. The base plates had two bridge spikes each in them. I also ran guys off the four corners to stabilize swaying. The Costco Carport shelter did not move an inch after that. The worst wind storms only hit when your about a mile away from your structure...? Or passed out... . . .

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:13 pm

On a related topic, I've just discovered the magic of Bungee Balls! Yes I'd seen them before holding tarps onto carports but just recently got curious enough to actually check out how they worked up close. I'm late to the party but now think they are The Coolest! (I'm playing with one around my wrist now...just got a boxload of them in the mail)

I've used rope and heavy tie-wraps in past years but will go bungee this time on my shade structure and my question is...how long do those bungee ball things last? Do they stay stretchy year to year and hold up OK in sunlight?

jbelson · Post by **jbelson** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:35 am

What kind of rope do people use for guy wires? Regular cheap nylon rope?

safetythird · Post by **safetythird** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:58 am

Tiahaar wrote:Do they stay stretchy year to year and hold up OK in sunlight?

They do rule, don't they? Not sure how they hold up year after year but I see swapmeet guys using them weekend after weekend on their stalls. I imagine they'll hold up pretty well with only limited use.

jbelson wrote:What kind of rope do people use for guy wires? Regular cheap nylon rope?

I'm going to use 2" ratchet tie downs for guys. 2500lbs strength is probably stronger than cheap nylon rope plus I'm a lazy ass who doesn't want to deal with pulling and tying rope. I suspect that I can ratchet down the structure with more force than I could tie it down.

Pretty cheap on ebay:

Ebay Ratchet Tie Downs

I'll know more after next weeks beach trip.

S3

Carport advice?

Re: Costco Carportus

Carport