Conduit Bangers of The World, Unite!

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:15 am

[quote="LeChatNoirI'm remembering Conan pushing the grist mill here...

.[/quote]

Great Minds Stink Alike! That was the very first thing that I thought of upon seeing the diagram!

Maybe we could cobble up a commando drivebelt to slip on and play with....(*rubbing hands together*)

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:09 am

Heh, Heh... guerilla power station.... or giant ice cream churn.

Ok... now you’ve got me thinking, damn it.

But what if people decide to quit spinning and we loose this new (and surely addictive) source of energy? We’d need something to keep them moving... like ladies with whips!!!

Hmmm.....

You know this has the potential to get entirely out of hand, dont' you?

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:20 am

LeChatNoir wrote: You know this has the potential to get entirely out of hand, dont' you?

We can only hope.....

Maybe ladies with whips equipped with hyropak bustiers dispensing chilled gin-and-tonic mix from specially equipped nipples........(or, one each of gin or tonic.)

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:55 pm

I was thinking of trying some 3/4 aluminum rigid conduit -- it's beefier and less corrodible than steel EMT and only 80% as heavy. (Aluminum EMT doesn't seem to be available in sizes under 2.) Is this overkill, considering I'm not planning on cantilevering heavy objects with it? The wall thickness is over twice that of EMT; how much force is it going to take to flatten it? And lastly, does aluminum have deformation properties sufficiently similar to steel that it's even possible to flatten it the same way, or is it going to crack and split in the press?

Thanks

kampkalamazoo · Post by **kampkalamazoo** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:02 am

BOY would I like to play with a big 'ol hunk of aluminum conduit! Should flatten nicely, especially if heat-softened....I wonder about its flexibility being a shortcoming for dome struts, though. If you're concerned about the corrosion problem, know that I keep my EMT domes assembled most of the year in Michigan climate and on-playa, and they haven't rusted at all. (I paint my ends, which helps a little.)

upriver · Post by **upriver** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:56 am

All done! It seemed like it was going to take more work than it did, but my 22' 2V thick-walled 3/4" conduit is all done. I still haven't got the space to do a test assembly, but next week at the Seattle area's big regional, Critical Massive, I'll give it a go.
Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for the good ideas & input.

Maybe I just got lucky, but I started calling welding shops to see if someone would let me use a hydrolic press and the second one I called was a totaly wing-not & super nice guy. I took in my 65 struts and with his help flattened the ends and bent in the proper angles in less than half an hour. On my way out he asked for 10 bucks for helping and ten bucks for shop use--not bad considering it would have probably taken weeks with a hammer to do the same (remember: thick walled is a little tougher than emt). For those just starting, especially if your using anything heavier than emt, it might be worth making a few phone calls in your area to see if you can do the same.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:26 am

Congrats on the new 2V....Mosey on over to the Parade of Domes thread and register that suckah!

falk · Post by **falk** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:01 pm

Hi all; I've noticed that most dome web pages talk about using 3/8" bolts to assemble the frame. Is this overkill? Any reason to think that 1/4" wouldn't be strong enough for, say, a 32' dome?

Elemental666 · Post by **Elemental666** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:40 am

Finally got around to crushing the ends of my EMT, have 240 struts ready for drilling and bending. Build a base for my benchtop drill press yesterday, will be assembling the drill press and jigs, then begin drilling, bending and painting the ends this weekend. With any luck I'mm be making the cover by next weekend. Any interest in some pics of my setup, results?

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:19 am

El 6-cubed- Hell yes, we want to see pictures!

Falk- I personally use 3/8" because they're just a little bit larger....Sounds dumb on the face of it, but when your fingers get dry and cracked and fumbly, it's easier to pick up a bigger bolt! Also, the bigger the bolt the lesser (by a small degree) chance of crossing the threads. If I were building a dome the size of yours, I'd even consider bumping to 1/2" hardware! (That'd require 5/8" holes, though....a little big for 3/4" conduit. But then, I'd go for broke (literally!) and use 1'' EMT.) You'll probably be FINE using 1/4" bolts, structurally. I recommend 1/8" slack between bolt-size and hole, though- Cuts down on chewed threads, and makes assembly easier. Washers on both sides, with snug holes so they don't "bottlecap".

falk · Post by **falk** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:31 am

OK, I'll stick to 1/4" then; thanks for your advice. I've been giving myself 1/32" slack, but I'll bump that up to 1/16" (1/8 seems a bit excessive). I can always change my mind and enlarge the holes next year if I decide 1/4" is too small.

Anybody use lock washers? I experimented, and decided that they made the dome too difficult to disassemble.

What's "bottle capping"?

And for those who like photos...

http://www.efalk.org/OasisDome/photos.html

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:10 am

Nicely flattened ends, Falk! Thanks for the pics.

"Bottlecapping" is where the bolthole is so large that the head pulls down through, and the washer crimps up "like a bottlecap". Happens with small-bolt-in-big-hole, too.

I experimented with lockwashers, but decided that they were unnecessary if you just use regular ones and tighten things up good and snug. There's no vibration sufficient to wiggle 'em loose. It did help to use thicker washers, not only to prevent the dreaded bottlecap phenomenon but also to squash everything together at those troublesome 6-way joins.

falk · Post by **falk** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:37 am

robotland wrote:Nicely flattened ends, Falk! Thanks for the pics.

Thanks. I credit that jig I made which centers the pressure directly over the end of the pole.

"Bottlecapping" is where the bolthole is so large that the head pulls down through, and the washer crimps up "like a bottlecap". Happens with small-bolt-in-big-hole, too.

Ahhh, got it. My bolts are 1/4" and the bolt holes are only 1/32" larger than that, so shouldn't be a problem.

Martiansky · Post by **Martiansky** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:24 pm

OK, I started smashing the ends of my conduit....got 4 done on both ends and then stopped and thought..."This sucks!"
I bet the neighboors can hear me pounding! I tried pounding once without my ear-protection and WOW it was loud! I have my piece of rail on the concrete floor...thinking of getting a hunk of hardwood to set the rail on next time. Of course if I could make the plates I'd spring for a press. But most likely that's not going to happen.

Elemental666 · Post by **Elemental666** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:43 pm

For about $80-100 you can have a setup like falks, check out harborfreight.com and get the plates from them too.

I pressed all 240 ends in about 8 hours with a 6ton aframe and the 12ton press plates. I had a friend weld a frame around the press plates to keep them from wandering around. Eventually i will upload these pics and post em up here for everyone... eventually

supersurly · Post by **supersurly** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:11 pm

Nothing like beer, tools and short shorts.

falk · Post by **falk** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:31 am

Elemental666 wrote:For about $80-100 you can have a setup like falks

The setup in my photo is the 12-ton press from harbor freight, on sale for $106 (probably back up to $125 now)

Go to http://www.efalk.org/OasisDome/photos.html and you can see a little wooden jig I made that slips over the press plate and the post and keeps them from wandering about. I squished over 200 pipes with no trouble at all.

phil · Post by **phil** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:20 am

[quote="supersurly"]Nothing like beer, tools and short shorts.[/quote]

_Plus_ black socks and street shoes with the shorts. :->

falk · Post by **falk** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:43 am

I'm the one in the sandals. But yeah, a weekend with tools and beer. Excellent.

Elemental666 · Post by **Elemental666** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:35 pm

falk wrote:
Elemental666 wrote:For about $80-100 you can have a setup like falks
The setup in my photo is the 12-ton press from harbor freight, on sale for $106 (probably back up to $125 now)

Right but a 6ton works just fine so one could get the press and plates for around $100 or less if one was so inclined. My setup is very similar to yours and I spent $250 on it with a drill press to boot. XD

BadDawg · Post by **BadDawg** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:57 pm

Lots of neat stuff to be found at Harbor Freight.
I plan on upgrading my press setup for next year.
I found an air/hydraulic bottle jack at Harbor Freight
that I plan on gettin later this year. Just hook it to my
air compressor and press a lever and have it smash
the conduit in one shot. no more having to pump the
jack any more.
I'll have my current set up with me, so if anyone needs
to repair of make new struts, I'll be at
Kamp Apokiliptika[/url]

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:54 am

Martiansky wrote:OK, I started smashing the ends of my conduit....got 4 done on both ends and then stopped and thought..."This sucks!"
I bet the neighboors can hear me pounding! I tried pounding once without my ear-protection and WOW it was loud! I have my piece of rail on the concrete floor...thinking of getting a hunk of hardwood to set the rail on next time. Of course if I could make the plates I'd spring for a press. But most likely that's not going to happen.

It's a LOT easier on you to have the anvil's face at arm-height....Ideally, the first joint of your fingers, in a fist, should rest flat on the pounding surface. Banging on the floor is bad for your back...at least, banging CONDUIT is. Heh.
I made a nifty little rail-anvil rig with a piece of 6x6" and four 2x4" scraps- I measured the ideal height, anchored the rail to the 6-by and then screwed the legs on one to each face. My regular anvil stand is a hunk of MASSIVE old beam on a rolling platform of 2x4"s. It's important to use solid metal casters!

Martiansky · Post by **Martiansky** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:33 pm

I have a bunch of hard wood chunks about a foot long or so and about 6 inches square that I can somehow put together to make a riser for my rail chunk....but how do you attach the rail to the wood? I saw the SA-WEET set up that LostMachine has but, I don't think I can attach it like that.

falk · Post by **falk** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:13 pm

Hi all; new question: Is there a good way to round off the square ends of flattened conduit? I've seen people doing it on a grinding wheel, but that looked like slow tedious work.

How else could I do it? Big metal shears? Special die in a sheet metal punch?

Elemental666 · Post by **Elemental666** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:03 pm

grinding wheel here, if I have time tomorrow. Putting this bad boy together this weekend. i went so far as to buy 3 bottles of wine for the gang so we can christen(sp?) each other and the dome as well...

falk · Post by **falk** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:32 pm

Congratulations. How big is your dome?

I'm hoping to put mine together in two weeks, but won't have time to grind all those corners by then. Biggest problem: no place to build it!

Elemental666 · Post by **Elemental666** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:13 pm

12'R 3V, should have the cover done about a week or so after I get it assembled. Turns out my mom has an old school treadle operated singer that I can use to sew up the cover with, so that's gonna rock (bad pun, lol).

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:57 am

MSky.....I've anchored rail to stumps a couple of different ways- the quickest is to thread a couple of washers over deck screws and screwing them in a close as you can...A flat metal strip on each side, pounded to match the rail's contours and then screwed down is slicker-looking. If you're really patient and have a GOOD drill and bit(s), you can bore holes in the rail and screw through those. In a pinch, bang in some tenpenny or bigger nails, and bend them over the edge of the rail. Works fine for temporary.

Falk...Got some aviation snips or metal shears? You can CLIP the sharp corners before grinding, eliminating about two-thirds of the work. It's best to start with nice, sharp clippers.

Martiansky · Post by **Martiansky** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:05 am

Thanks for the rail securing info Robo...I appreciate it! I was going to dig the wood chunks out of the shed but, I'm going to have to wait until the rain stops!! Shouldn't last too much longer I hope.

Martiansky · Post by **Martiansky** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:24 pm

THESE PIPES ARE MASHED!
An anvil....5 pound hammer and many hours later.....TA-DA!

WOOHOO!

Next on the agenda....drilling the holes.
It's getting closer and closer to completion.
Think my arm is gonna hurt tomorrow.

Conduit Bangers of The World, Unite!

To DOME, or Not To DOME?

Aluminum conduit?

1/4" vs 3/8"

rounding off the ends of conduit