The Great Medical Debate...

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:46 pm

If they worked, they could and would make a fortune off of them. The most expensive part of the pharmaceutical biz is the R&D. With so-called natural medicines, the R&D is already done. All they would have to do would be the clinical trials and the marketing. Why wouldn't they take advantage of such a goldmine? The field is white and ready for harvest, and yet no drug company has grabbed the sickle. Why is that? Why do all these herbal and natural remedies have the following disclaimer?

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat,cure or prevent any disease.

Why don't they subject themselves to FDA tests for efficacy and safety? Is it because they know that they can only exist on the fringes?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't big corporations making fortunes off of aspirin, aloe, and eucalyptus? Hmmm. Natural drugs that work, being exploited. What does this tell us about natural drugs that aren't being exploited?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:42 pm

If they worked, they could and would make a fortune off of them

uh, no, because you can not patent vitamin C, for example. Here's a fun one from our friends at big Pharma. Turns out there are some spiffy bits in aspirin that we are learning are quite effective as treatment for some diseases. Too bad you can't make no money off of that. So, what does pharma do? Well, they go about trying to isolate and synthesize the particular compound that seems to be beneficial. After they patent the synthesis they can then sell it to you for an order of magnitutde above what everyday aspirin would costs.

most expensive part of the pharmaceutical biz is the R&D

much of which is funded by my tax dollars.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:12 pm

most expensive part of the pharmaceutical biz is the R&D

Has anyone else noticed the recent blitzkrieg of consumer level marketing for perscription drugs? I bet advertising is creeping it's way up on R&D pretty fast.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:56 pm

I HAVE noticed the trend of advertising prescription drugs, and I think it's a very bad one. Baby boomers are becoming hypochondriacs and asking their doctors for prescriptions for things they don't need.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:49 pm

I HAVE noticed the trend of advertising prescription drugs, and I think it's a very bad one. Baby boomers are becoming hypochondriacs and asking their doctors for prescriptions for things they don't need.

<overheard my doctor speaking to another patient as I was waiting for an appointment>

"I'll make the drug calls please. You're welcome to find another doctor anytime you think that a 30 second advertisement trumps my 25 years of experience as a MD in determining what's is best and not best for you. I just wanna be clear on that. You OK with that?"

I LIKE my doctor.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:28 pm

Your doc sounds like my doc, except mine's an ob-gyn... >>grins<<

The prescription marketing market means BIG money for the pharm. companies. They play on human's natural tendancy for hypochondria (Oh no, my tummy hurts, I saw this on Oprah, myst be Hypogastrointestinal ulceratic fungal arthritis!!) and their desire to take the easiest, fastest cure no matter the cost... (When is a diet pill worth $156 apiece? When you can lose 30 pounds in 2 weeks??!! Yeesh!!)

Probably the biggest fear of the big pharmaceutical companies is their formula for drug X will pass into public domain and they will then have to compete with the evil "generic" drugs. A lot will change a minute part of the formula just to hold that patent, and keep the monopoly on the whatever, so they can keep the $$$ high. Or the public will fid out the FDA was bribed to get the approval passed, and, well...

Also the side effects - which can sometimes be pretty nasty (abdominal bleeding, heart arythmia, stroke, etc - YIKES!!) are "flashed" through by an announcer like a car dealer reading VIN's... Sure, it'll cure your tummy ache, but just ignore the man speaking from behind the curtain saying that it'll induce stroke, may cause impotence in men, miscarriage in women, and cause your (insert gender-specific organ here) to fall off. But look, it's got a cute purple color that will SAVE you from your case of halitosis!!!! And see all the happy people in their slick matching outfits wandering through an alternate dimension... all over a pill. Argh!

(Oh, last time I had that kind of reaction from a medication it was not a pill, but on a sugar cube! >grins<<)

Then again, what we on our end get is nothing compared to the directed flash flood of garbage the MD's get.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:48 am

I have a few odd pieces of advertising crap for doctors. Picked up at thrift stores. A mug with a nose for some sort of decongestant. A vinyl record with operatic mad scenes for some sort of anti-psychotic. And people wonder why I wish I could sneak into Moscone for freebes with every convention. . .

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:35 pm

[quote]Then again, what we on our end get is nothing compared to the directed flash flood of garbage the MD's get.[/quote]

It's not just the directed flood of mail. Around here they seem to pick models as the drug reps. Seriously some of the ones I've seen going in and out ot the doctor's offices are beautiful enough to make the jaws drop on almost every guy in the waiting room. When they get the doctor alone and turn on the charm offensive, for quite a few doctors it's over. Resistance? What resistance? Sure I'll gladly give out those trial packs and write those scripts.....

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:12 pm

daily routine:

-coffee, lots of coffee.
-aspirin (night before, ouch)
-valium to mellow the negative pissed off hyper effects of the coffee(wide awake mellow)
-food, which brings on lack of energy and brain function
-ritalin to get it right, ride this high the rest of the day with perhaps another valium to take the edge off
-whiskey and vicodin, lots of whiskey, lots of vicodin, gotta come down from the peaks and valleys to sea level and drown out the roller coaster ride of a day...

My god, a week in the desert is sounding so healthy right about now, he he he

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:52 pm

dude, that's super fucked up.

Do drugs recreationally, not habitually. Quit all that shit. Be well.

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:17 pm

he he he, I was only jiving, sorta poking a little fun at some of the comments here.

thanks for the words though, baby.

synchronicity · Post by **synchronicity** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:40 pm

Guys, there is no question about it - herbal medicines work.
The big problem is pseudo herbal pharmaceutical companys.
They extract what they believe to be the "active ingredient" and
place it in pill form. Herbal medications work best as close to the source as possible. BUT - self medication is a Major lifestyle choice, you first have to take full responsibility for mistakes.
So far I'm 20 years away from modern medicine - we'll see what the "aging years" do to that track record.

synchronicity · Post by **synchronicity** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:45 pm

If I could edit, I would make it "Herbal pseudo pharmaceutical companys"

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:57 pm

bullD wrote:daily routine: coffee, -aspirin -valium -ritalin -vicodin

Sounds like my morning cocktail. But skip the aspirin, heard that stuff is really nasty and bad for you.

Yeah, dont buzz my harsh dudes...

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:18 pm

rosemary esential oil is a fantastic anti-inflammatory.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:00 pm

New England Journal of Medicine:

"Echinacea doesn't do dick for colds"

I may have paraphrased that a little. Here's the long version.

Sorry, folks.

gawul · Post by **gawul** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:56 pm

[quote="CoworkerLurker"]I've always figured that more doctors should be prescribing placebos.

I mean, all those medical studies are supposed to determine that a drug or treatment works better than a placebo, right? Because if it just works better than nothing, not such a big deal... Gotta mean that placebos work better than nothing, I figure.[/quote]

years ago i worked at a state hospital for violently insane people. one medication that was available at the patient's request (a PRN) was called OBECALP. it was a huge orange capsule. we kept it locked up in the drawer with the narcotic's. we had to sign papers to take it from the drawer and give to the patient. the patient could watch this procedure through the window, knowing it was a 'special' med because of the paperwork we had to do to give one

obecalp is placebo spelled backwards. you'd be AMAZED at how well it worked.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:02 pm

Yeh, but using those sort of psyche tactics/methods doesn't make for a true double blind study.

Next on the hit list: St. john's Wort

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:52 am

i was never under the impression that echinacea would help with symptoms but rather as a preventative. The study does not address that.

Sorry pseudoGenius. If I get sick just give me a family sized bottle of Nyquil.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:35 pm

It doesn't have any effect on rate of infection, either. Did you miss that bit? Some people got E. Angustifolia as a prophylaxis for a week before the virus challenge and (surprise!) still had the same rate of infection and severity of symptoms.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:50 am

stuart wrote: If I get sick just give me a family sized bottle of Nyquil.

Whoo Hoo!

"40 proof, and comes with it's own shot glass"
(actual Nyquil display sign at my uncle's pharmacy-store"

I don't have a lot of faith in anything AMA, except doing the basic mechanical stuff like setting bones and repairing skin. I take pycnogynol to get rid of my arthritis, cure illnesses and generally keep me upright. The Europeans swear by it. The AMA won't touch it, because you can't patent the bark of a tree. I also believe strongly in an anti-fungal agent found in the root of some bush in South America. Both do the job amazingly well with no side effects.

As far as chiropractory, just quit that habit and get Rolf'ed. It was the best $1000 I've ever spent, and will ever spend on my fucked up back. Chiro's dare not say permanent results.

Eat more anti-oxydants, and you'll feel better. (oh, the pycnogynol is 30x more potent as vitamin C and 50x more potent than vitamin E, with zero side effects and it's not possible to overdose on it., and you don't eliminate the excess -- it's 100% absorbed)

And I'm too tired to put down cites, so just do a search on it and learn..

To your health!
RobbiDobbs