Better shade material: Camo netting or tarps w/holes?

[Beanstalk]

HI everyone!
This year is my virgin burn. I'm putting together a PVC dome with 20foot PVC spans and

making a pseudo-geodesic dome (20 foot spans that are curved -- actually makes about a

6-foot radius dome). I'm obviously going to attach it down with rebar and good rope.

Anyway, I'm looking for the shade material now, and it seems to me that the density of

shade-producing material on camo netting might not really provide that much shade compared

to tarps with wind-pressure-reducing holes cut into them.

Any advice on the quality of shade you get from camo netting vs. tarps? If it takes many

layers of netting to make good shade I'm probably going to have to go the tarp route, since

netting isn't too cheap when you need many layers.

Thanks!
Beanstalk

[Martiansky]

Beanstalk...WELCOME to Eplaya!
Here's a website I found intriguing even though I'm not using pvc for a dome. These people made an awesome structure!!
I see Menards now sells a big mesh cover, but it's not rainproof. Would let the wind blow through probably.
Good luck with your project!

http://www.eugeneweb.com/~bm/

[dragonfly Jafe]

I have used 20' lengths of 1" PVC to build my personal shelter for several years now with excellent results. As you say, rebar and such. I also include a few lateral PVC pipes wrapped around and tied into the others.

For covering, I recommend using either camo netting or shade cloth for the main wrap, attaching it liberally to the PVC (I use either wire ties or zip ties or velcro, depending on what I have handy). I cut my shade cloth to more or less match the openings, then attach each piece to the PVC on either side, kind of "sewing" it as I go. When done, the PVC is completely hidden from the outside.

I then add a thick waterproof canvas 5x8 tarp on top as the "roof", and also keep a big HD silver/grey tarp handy in case of wind/rain. If the wind comes up, I use my tote bins as weights to hold the lower edges in place (the trap goes completely over the structure when in use). Once set-up, you can pull it back, leaving one side (the prevailing wind side) tucked in and then when needed pull it back in place in seconds. A couple of lines to secure the front as a sort of vestibule, and you are set. I have weathered the blows of the last couple years in these with no issues (and usually a few campmates join me, as these structures do much better than your typical tent in a big blow, IMHO).

[Ron]

After years of trying to use camo netting for our main shade material over the grass in Shady we've given up on it. Camo netting is too heavy, doesn't block the sun well enough, and soaks up playa like a sponge. Or best results came when we hung bed sheets from the netting, and that's a pain in the ass...

This year we're using agricultural shade material and it's gonna rock, I do believe...

Ron

[Beanstalk]

Thanks for the input and experiences everyone! I am also using 1" PVC for my structure, so at least I know that I picked the right thickness :-)

So when folks mention using shade cloth, I'm assuming this is similar to the material used, for example, on the sides of tennis courts -- fine mesh-like material that you can see through, but which still creates a decent amount of shade to reduce the intensity of the sunlight.

If I'm thinking of the right stuff, where does one generally find shade cloth? Is that usually something that you'll find just at nurseries (as agri. shade cloth)? Not sure what types of businesses would sell such a material. Is it generally expensive or not?

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to get the shade right, as I've heard it can really make your playa experience quite a bit better if you have the respite you need in the shade.

--Beanstalk

[phil]

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to get the shade right, as I've heard it can really make your playa experience quite a bit better if you have the respite you need in the shade.

Shade is personal. I get really hot in the sun. Although everyone talks about UV (which is an important consideration, as it causes sunburns and skin cancer), my main problem is with IR. If I don't have the IR blocked, it doesn't matter how much UV is blocked, I'm still too hot. Camo, netting, mesh, all that stuff doesn't block IR.

_Many_ people are fine with camo netting and mesh. I'm not. This is something you'll find out when you get there.

You may not get it right your first year. That's fine. You'll get it more nearly right next year. You'll do even better the third year. :-) All the advice you get, including mine, is what works for that person, not what will work for you. You'll find out on the playa. Relax. Enjoy. Repeat.

[blyslv]

I've found that one layer of white camo netting over the silver lined tarp provides a dense shade. YMMV

[robotland]

Shade cloth is available through greenhouse suppliers, and at SOME retailers. There is a mesh material used for shading doghouses, lining tennis courts and covering dumptruck loads- It's fairly heavy, and blocks about 40-50% of the sunlight. NOT enough to protect you from a playa sunburn if you're laying around in one place for long enough....Not even enough to save you from a MICHIGAN sunburn! TWO layers of "truck mesh" are better, and create interesting diffraction grating patterns, but the result is quite heavy. I use some of this mesh in my structure, mainly because I have it to use. The greenhouse cloth can be ordered by percentage of sunlight that it blocks- Up to about 80%, I think. Aluminet is a new type of shadecloth that's made from aluminized plastic, akin to Mylar- It's REALLY tough for mesh, lightweight, and shiny. (Beautiful, in fact!) Also ordered in percentage-of-shade. A brisk Googling should point the way to the supplier near you, or internet purveyer. My dream structure will be Aluminetted, but it'll take a thorough ravishing of the 'ol piggybank to get that going.

[robotland]

Here's a good info source for Aluminet:

http://www.cloudtops.com/greenhouse_sha ... uminet.htm

[theCryptofishist]

... a thorough ravishing of the 'ol piggybank...

pervert

[Ebenezer Squeezer]

I picked up some 70% aluminet and seems very durable and lightweight. I have yet to actually try it out, though.

Thanks to a tip from somewhere on eplaya, I picked up some Swedish Snow Break-Up net. It's basically Tyvek with a bunch of random holes in it. Major Surplus and Supply has 16'x20' pieces with sewn in ties for $13 each.

http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Me ... ry_Code=23

[Blonde Iguana]

I just picked up some of that Swedish Snow Break Up net at a Seattle surplus store yesterday. I was looking for shade material, i.e. a parachute, but the store owner told me that lots of local burners came in looking for the white Swedish stuff rather than parachutes.

Does anyone have experience with this stuff, and if yes, whaddya think of it? I figured it must be good if other burners are looking for it. (and sheeyit, I paid $24 for mine...)

[Sharky]

We use a 16' PVC dome with two ex-army green cargo parachutes thrown over it. The double layer of chutes really blocks out the sunlight, and the vent holes in the top let out the heat. We use plastic spring clamps to hold the sides up during the day. By rolling up one or both layers, on one side or the other, you can really regulate the shade and in the event of a dust storm, you can roll the sides down and secure them 360 degrees around the bottom to make a relatively dust free haven. I know there has been alot of negative feedback on green, nylon shutes, but they sure work for us!.
I bought one of the Sweedish snow camo tarps this year and we'll be using it to shade a couple of storage tents.
Here's the thread on camo tarps: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=8642
We paid $10.00 for our tarp .............. how could I not get one at that price!

[robotland]

... a thorough ravishing of the 'ol piggybank...

pervert

(To piggybank, in a thick, heavy drawl) "You know.....you got a REAL purty mouth......"

[Martiansky]

Sharky, where did you get your parachutes from and what size(s) do you have?

[Beanstalk]

Thanks for the information folks. I think I'm going to go with getting aluminet. I've found some other threads on the forum with opinions on aluminet and it appears that people have had good experiences with it.

Aaaah, now begins 9 weeks of paid vacation with Burning Man right in the middle!

--Beanstalk

[Sharky]

Sharky, where did you get your parachutes from and what size(s) do you have?

I bought them from "Major Surplus & Survival", mail order.
http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com
They have a great military surplus catalog and on line catalog, great prices too. I believe the chutes are 35' standard US military cargo chutes. The price was about $30.00 each when I bought them a year and a half ago.
As a side note, parachutes are measured edge to edge, over the top arc, so a 35' parachute is not 35' across, but is more like 16' across the bottom when "inflated".

[Quickener]

This is what we used last year:
http://www.cloudtops.com/greenhouse_shade_cloth.htm

The 80% black, knitted stuff. It was awesome. By mid-morning the temperature difference between outside and inside our shade structure was probably around 15+ degrees. The wind goes right through it, but it does filter a significant amount of dust. When it gets bright out, you can also see right through it from the inside, though it's pretty opaque from the outside.

Very nice stuff actually.

It just doesn't keep water out, so unless you want to gamble (like we did last year) consider a backup plan in case of rain.

[geekster]

Shade cloth sucks for keeping rain out, it will drip mud. Same with camo net and probably parachutes.

It is getting too late now but if you want a really good shade covering for next year, see if there are any sail makers near you. Have them make you a custom cover out of sail cloth with lots of grommets. Not the cheapest way to go, but strong and durable. It will probably get your through many years of camping so might work out cheaper in the long run if you can afford the up front investment. Many colors and patterns are available too.

[Bob]

I'm converting to leather made from human skin. More tattoos, better shade.

[geekster]

There's a place in San Jose that can make custom covers too. We intend to stop by there later this week. Got it on one of our local lists:

Many asked where I got my playawind-proof sunshade from, here is the contact info.

They will help you design the perfect one, will cut the pipestock down to size, will make sure you have all the bits you need… all included in the very reasonable price (my 10X10 peaked sunshade cost $85 bucks!)

(Even if you don't want a sunshade, they have a huge industrial warehouse full of low priced tools and goodies…well worth the visit)

South Bay Canopy
647 Tully Road Unit #8 (in back)
San Jose

Vicky Du
408 998.8280
M-F 9am-5pm
Sat noon-5pm

[golgotha-a-go-go]

You may not get it right your first year. That's fine. You'll get it more nearly right next year. You'll do even better the third year. :-) All the advice you get, including mine, is what works for that person, not what will work for you. You'll find out on the playa. Relax. Enjoy. Repeat.[/quote]


Phil, your words are the sagest of all. Advice is what works for the person who's giving it. You can listen to it but in the final analysis, BM is about finding out for oneself, making those silly mistakes and learning, re-learning and figuring it out by trial and error, the way most inventions were created. It's called ingenuity: a fading art form in the outside world, a necessity at BM. (But, hey, this sounds like advice too...)

[robotland]

I had time to try a few new tarp configurations on the dome, and found one that I like- My shade of choice is good 'ol silver tarps, and I picked up a half dozen small ones to try this out: They're about 5'x8', which is big enough to cover each of the five hexagons that make up the sides of the dome from top to bottom with a little slack at top. Covering all five gives you shade coverage with long triangles between, top to bottom, and those get lashed together loosely to keep everything taut. If this were a standard 2V, I'd then throw a top tarp on- But the Snowman's three stories tall and the "roof" is the observation deck above.
Supplemental shade tarps can be shifted around as the sun moves. The full-length triangular vents allow nice air movement. Of course it gets dusty inside, but I've created an interior space against the wall with PVC and tarps, complete with hatch, to allow for (almost) dust-free relaxation.

[geekster]

We stopped in to that South Bay Canopy place today. Bought a 12x20 shade thing for $125. Steel conduit with grommeted tarp and the bungee balls to secure it.

I actually got out of there for less than $200 (just barely) after browsing around some more.

They have a sense of humor too. We walked in and said to the lady that speaks English ... "We need shade, are you shady people?" and she replied "yes, very shady indeed!".

It is basically a place stuffed to the gills with cheap chinese made stuff but man, they have all kinds o crap in there. I'm not even sure if *they* know everything they have in there. Think of it as a "dollar store" for tools and stuff.

[Gravity Mike]

HI everyone!
This year is my virgin burn. I'm putting together a PVC dome with 20foot PVC spans and

making a pseudo-geodesic dome (20 foot spans that are curved -- actually makes about a

6-foot radius dome). I'm obviously going to attach it down with rebar and good rope.

Anyway, I'm looking for the shade material now, and it seems to me that the density of

shade-producing material on camo netting might not really provide that much shade compared

to tarps with wind-pressure-reducing holes cut into them.

Any advice on the quality of shade you get from camo netting vs. tarps? If it takes many

layers of netting to make good shade I'm probably going to have to go the tarp route, since

netting isn't too cheap when you need many layers.

Thanks!
Beanstalk

Tarps let too much visible light and UV through. 4 years back, our dome's first year, inside was hotter than outside!! We used tarps. Aliminized mylar is really the best lightweight material for heavy duty shade, but it ain't cheap or easy. Others on this thread have mentioned Aluminet, which is basically the same stuff (aliminized HDPE or something, not mylar though), but is also expensive. I have a $100 chunk this year just to cover my large tent.

In 2003, what we've found that works REALLY WELL and is fairly cheap is aluminum foil!! That's right. Plus it adds to the 'camping on another planet' atmosphere. We get buckets of contact/rubber cement and solvent (not sure which, I'm not in charge of that). We dilute the rubber cement about 50% with the solvent and roll it on with rollers onto tarps and sheets of aliminum foil. Let dry, stick, fold, then use on the playa. it's a little delicate so you have to handle it a little carefully. We have the aliminum foil on the inside, but I don't think it matters much. The foil can tear, but we don't make MOOP cuz it's all glued, not just taped along the edges. You want lot's of help doing this so you can set up a 'factory.' We've aluminized an entire 24-foot dome in a day with around 10 people. We get the Costco giant rolls of foil.

Come check out our domes, enjoy our cool space and have a drink at Citrus Camp any afternoon - it's what we do.

Gravity

[Bob]

FWIW, I'm withholding my opinion on aluminized whatever until we get another significant lightning storm during the event.

[Gravity Mike]

First, Aluminet is not conductive (I just checked).

Further, the safest place to be in an electrical storm is inside a garbage can - this is called a Faraday cage, and BTW is how Megavolt doesn't get electricuted. Your tent poles, which don't *surround* you with a conductive surface, are far more dangerous assuming they're aluminum. Like charges repel, and therefore cannot penetrate a closed metal stucture.

Gravity

[AntiM]

In 2003, what we've found that works REALLY WELL and is fairly cheap is aluminum foil!!

You know, they make fancy holographic foil. I'd imagine it would be on clearance right after the winter holidays ... that'd be waaay cool.