Feds on the playa?

[unjonharley]

In 01 the undercover was a golf cart with A T F on the side. It had four guys in it/on it. They were dressed in black swap outfits. My camp mate pointed me to then. So I pointed and laugh. That's the year I couldn't see well. Would been a hoot, them trying to bust a blind guy.

[EvilDustBooger]

I had a few instances of strangers wandering up to my camp and asking if I "knew where to get anything" ....and a couple of overly friendly fellows came up who had "LOST" their stash.....So Tragic...And SO Suspicious.
I offered them something cold to drink......

Watch It ! Careful! The Default World is closer than you might think.

[EvilDustBooger]

a couple of overly friendly fellows came up who had "LOST" their stash.....

Oh Yeah. I had a leapard printed fuzzy bag hanging on my belt that I keep my camera in. I reached for it while I was talking to them, and their attention focused on it like a homicide detective would focus on a spent cartridge on the floor.....I reached in and pulled out my camera, and asked if they would pose by my "Lick Bush in `04" sign. I could tell they were really uncomfortable about that, but they sheepishly did as I requested.....so I have photos of them!!!! Heh Heh
Turnabout is Fair Play eh?

[mojo]

On two occasions over the years neighbors of ours have been busted for smoke. One group made the mistake of setting a cooler of free beer (complete with a sign) out on the street - they had their camp raided and their pot was found. The other was a guy sitting in his own camp smoking on Sunday night just before the gates opened - he was spotted via night vision scope or binocs and got his $250 invitation to court.

[Cabanasprings]

Does anyone know for fact if you asked an undercover LEO if they are the law, do they have to a to tell you the truth?

I understand that not using is the best way to avoid trouble but just curious.

[Ganga]

Does anyone know for fact if you asked an undercover LEO if they are the law, do they have to a to tell you the truth?

I understand that not using is the best way to avoid trouble but just curious.

I know for a fact an undercover does not have to tell you the truth. Entrapment has to do with leading someone into engaging in an illegal activity he or she wouldn't otherwise have been involved in. Hypothetically, they should NOT be able to flat out ask for something specifically, but my experience in the legal system (and NOT as a criminal) has been that it depends on the cop and depends on the judge. The best advice is don't do anything illegal, and if you do, keep it to yourself and your close personal friends.

[Chai Guy]

A couple of things about Law Enforcement on the Playa:

1. They are there and they are for real. After the event people will come back on the eplaya and decry the fact that they got a ticket or went to jail. These things have real world consequences and you might want to consider what those are and how they might affect you before taking any actions that may result in you being fined or arrested.

2. You will not be able to spot undercover LEO, they have been going to the event longer, have better costumes and better art cars than you.

3. Even telling someone where to buy drugs can get you a conspiracy to traffic in narcotics charge.

4. You are still more likely to go to jail by attending "Hot August Nights" in Reno.
http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/20 ... /77643.php

5. It's perfectly legal for the police to lie to you. Especially in a Sting Operation. In fact, in some cases it's legal for an undercover officer to partake in consuming illegal narcotics.

http://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/police_info6.shtml
http://www.criminalattorney.com/pages/f ... apment.htm

The first of these beliefs is that a person preparing to sell drugs or solicit a prostitute can simply ask the agent whether or not he or she is an agent of the authorities. In this myth, if an undercover agent denies his association with police, his actions constitute entrapment. No part of this is true. If it were, undercover operations would be impossible because they could be easily and automatically defused. Police agents are allowed, if not encouraged, to lie. In fact, the lie and the deception are at the very heart of the sting. Without them, there would be no undercover operation.

[spectabillis]

... In fact, in some cases it's legal for an undercover officer to partake in consuming illegal narcotics.

And they dont always report what they confiscate, do the math.


I wonder if there are any openings?

[geekster]

I wonder if there are any openings?

They recruit from the entire western region of states for BM. They solicit every agency that has "arrest power" including things like departments of natural resources, etc. There are probably lots of openings.

[JezebelinHell]

The kids that got busted in the whole drag queen fiasco were in my camp. Got carted off in handcuffs and everything. Pretty scary ordeal, but they came back to us unharmed.

[geekster]

drag queen fiasco

Sounds like a BORG2 fundraiser.

[Isotopia]

drag queen fiasco

Um, believe me, drag queens are not known for their stellar application of common sense under any situation or circumstance.

I am living fucking proof.

[theCryptofishist]

drag queen fiasco

Um, believe me, drag queens are not known for their stellar application of common sense under any situation or circumstance.

This in no way abrogates their existence.

[ZaphodBurner]

... In fact, in some cases it's legal for an undercover officer to partake in consuming illegal narcotics.

And they dont always report what they confiscate, do the math.

Truth in that! When I was a kid I witnessed a friend of a close relative buy marijuana from a fellow who had his Oregon State Police smokey-bear hat hanging on his wall.

When I was in college I dated a girl...her uncle was a cop in Olympia and would not be caught dead giving her drugs. So he put confiscated pot in a hunting freezer and whenever she went up to visit, it magically disappeared.

After a gig one time a known dealer around the Portland music scene came backstage and, during a conversation, mentioned a specific parking lot where one can purchase mj from an off-duty Portland cop.

Two years ago our bass-player's stepdaughter-17-was pulled over near Oregon City. They had their pipe dumped and their car towed (no proof of insurance), but the second officer found her boyfriend's stash under her floormat, stuffed it in his shirt pocket, smiled at her and said nothing about it to the senior officer. She was so blown away by it she told her dad.

That's FOUR unrelated instances I'm personally aware of.

-c

[joel the ornery]

can we all say "anecdotal" in unison?

[stuart]

can we all say irrelevant?

The poster is merely saying 'this happens, I have seen it' This is logically sound. The poster is not saying 'this always happens. I have seen it'. Big difference.

[ZaphodBurner]

can we all say "anecdotal" in unison?

If that's what it takes to make you feel better about your place on the e-playa.


-c

[spectabillis]

crikeys, do i have to disclaimer every one of my posts as potential sarcasm and humor?

[Stilesfamily]

Golly, the basic message I am receiving here is that you need to show at least the same discretion on the Playa as you would anywhere else. Perhaps a little more since it is a festival of sorts and well known for prior substance use. This will be only my 3rd burn but given the size and reputation for the event I only remember seeing 2 individuals whom I was certain were on something. One young woman who was crawling around fondling everything she could find in a cool psychedelic music dome that looked like a lotus flower, that was in 03. And last year, late at night, around 9 and the esplanade some guy was just too strung out and despite the best efforts of fellow burners and the Rangers to make him feel safe and calm him down he got combative and some public agency stepped in and arrested him.

But then again I don’t have a lot of experience with (not yet legal) drugs so the young woman may have just been real happy and the guy last year may have just had something in his eye.

[Chai Guy]

Golly, the basic message I am receiving here is that you need to show at least the same discretion on the Playa as you would anywhere else.

Indeed, that is the message that I think should be conveyed.

[Kleiner Fallhammer]

Hi - I'm trying to get a straight legal answer here that no one in my camp can figure out:
If you are 'busted' (for something fairly innocuous - nothing violent, nothing narcotic) on the playa, far away from your camp and you have your ID on you - driver's license, passport, can the LEOs accept your ID and ticket you then and there..
OR
Would they still march you back to your camp and toss your tent and/or your whole camp?

We're trying to keep things safe and minimal - no using of anything illegal in camp. If you're going to party, take it out of camp and bring your ID so if you get busted it's your problem, and doesn't make the camp a target.

But someone suggested to me that this would be irrelevant - even if you have ID enabling them to ticket you on the playa, they would still walk you back to your camp and force a search of your belongings.

But then on the other hand I understand your tent to be private property and they need a warrant to search unless they have probable cause, but would busting you on the playa be probable cause to check your tent?

Maybe it depends on the situation.

Ok, one more stupid question, but these are the things I'm currently concerned about:

Rumors from years past have LEOs 'checking pupils' - let's say, boarding an art car at night, shining a flashlight into pupils to check dilation - if you're fully dilated in the darkness, pretty good chance you're not just using eye drops from the opthamologist, capice? So, big pupils, instant bust, hustle back to camp, toss toss, cry cry etc. But this just seems f'ing crazy to me - I mean, if I'm just sitting there enjoying myself and not harming anyone, can someone actually bust me for pupil size? That seems nuts. Maybe I have an eye disease. Maybe I DID score some dilation drops from my eye doctor - I mean, big pupils compared to what as the norm?

Anyway, I think you get my drift here.

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery? And please spare me any 'just say no' feedback - if you want to have a theoretical and politikal discussion on the 'war on drugs' feel free to post a new thread and I'll give you my opinion, but I'm looking for some honest help on this one for me, and many of my heathen, god-foresaking, pinko commie friends.

Thank you and see you on zee playa in 8 days!
Kleiner Fallhammer, the carpet elf

[hoochie mama]

I confess. I am Canadian. I am not, or was not, familiar with the various levels of Police Authority in the States. For this I am sorry.

2003. My former partner was a key grip. One of his projects several years ago was LeXX, the Dark Zone. ( No, he's not proud of it either, but it was a good gig and payed his bills for several years).

The schwag from the shoot was the same nasty quasi military jumpsuit that the bads guys all wore. Those of you who are Sci Fi fans may remember this. They were, yes they were, ATF. Large Yellow Letters. ATF. Again, my ignorance shows, I didn't know this was meant as anything more than a joke. They also have official looking patches clearly saying LeXX the Dark Zone.

I packed said jumpsuit and matching cap, figuring it would be a wonderful playa gift to a diehard fan. Crew here were selling theirs on ebay at the time.

The opportunity didn't arise to gift it to anyone, and I was freezing. So one night I put the works on and wandered into centre camp. I cleared it. The only folks remaining were also in uniform, and were smiling and saluting. Pretty sure their uniforms were legit. They clearly thought mine was. I guess I out ranked them.

I left. I took it off. I live in shame. I still take heat from my dear friends, who didn't know any better either, but who continue to suggest that I should have confiscated anything I could and given it to them.

The lesson in all this? Things may not be what they appear to be at Burningman.

h.m.

[ZaphodBurner]

The opportunity didn't arise to gift it to anyone, and I was freezing. So one night I put the works on and wandered into centre camp. I cleared it. The only folks remaining were also in uniform, and were smiling and saluting. Pretty sure their uniforms were legit. They clearly thought mine was. I guess I out ranked them.

LOL! So what's wrong with clearing an entire camp full of paranoid Burners? That's ART! The idea that you might have spoofed even the real police makes it even more excellent.

OTOH, I wonder if the uniformed types were "smiling and saluting" because they knew you weren't real and enjoyed how you scattered the freaks like pigeons in a park.

Nicely done.
-c

[hoochie mama]

Zaphod,
you could be very right about that. Especially with my platform boots and acres of red hair, I'd find it hard to beleive that any LOE worth their salt wouldn't see the joke right away.

Glad they enjoyed it!!!

h.m.

[spectabillis]

Hi - I'm trying to get a straight legal answer here...

good luck

[Steven bradford]

I'm sure someone could provide a queer legal answer though!

Summing up, get legal advice from a lawyer. Preferably one who knows this area.

Also--They've announced they'll be watching for underage drinking. So putting beer in a cooler unattended with a free sign is prolly not wise at all.

At least not next to YOUR camp.

[atomicray]

I know most folks are on their way or at least wishing they were (good luck NE with Irene!) and I will surely get boos and rocks thrown my way...but wouldn't the easy answer to all of these issues of getting caught to just not do the things that could get you arrested?

Call me crazy but even the most paranoid type that sees government coverup's and conspiracies around every corner will have to agree, don't commit a crime and you won't get arrested.

There were a couple comments that made me laugh, unsure if the writer actually believed their own stories or if it was a joke...cops holding onto drugs to sell later, classic

Urban myths for the most part and an extreme minority of incident that is common only on TV and movie cop dramas.

Cops holding drugs to use for themselves...good one

I have vast experience with large police departments and my uncle retired from the Miami/Dade as an asst chief of police, so directly from an inspector and auditor for the majority of his career with the police department (38yrs) he could count such offenses on one hand...bribes on the other hand are fairly common with a large police department or a remote police department, but even still you are talking about a situation where you get piss tested on a regular basis without any notice...one offense as a cop gets you solitary 23hrs a day in a protected unit of jail/prison...do you honestly think that police officers are willing to throw their lives away for some recreational drugs?

For the rest of the world that does not get high, the thought of taking these sort of risks far outweighs any potential momentary feel good moment.

Not saying I would not partake of a high moment if it were legal, but currently it is not so I don't.

I got to spend some a handful of months behind bars due to income tax issues from working as a contractor. Seeing the sad faces of the "druggies" I can assure you that there is nothing glamorous about recreational drug use, this is something that is realized when you are locked up...at that point you see that freedom is a wonderful high.

So I guess I have to ask, being a birgin how much drug use am I looking to deal with? Can we realistically operate our camp without worrying about other burners bringing drugs in for their version of gifting?

The main reason I ask is that the crew I am working the project with does have a couple guys who are dealing with past drug addictions...if burning man is thick with drugs then I suspect we will need to shield our vulnerable members.

Burning Man is about the art right?

We are getting excited about going in the near future...designing an art installation and a handful of art cars to scoot around...but I am getting the feeling that we may be wanting to go to Spring Break for the beach, fun, and sun...not the drugs, alcohol, and woooo (the universal sound made just before an "oh shit" moment)

So what is the consensus...are you going to burning man as another opportunity to get stoned or to see everything?

*****

Worrying about FBI, LEO, and other free tickets to jail and do not pass Go...I suspect worrying about staying hydrated, finding the time to see everything, and absorbing it all before the last day is a much more valid concerns.

We are looking forward to the experience...we have been reviewing youtube videos, checking out dedicated websites, and looking through photo albums...cup cake cars are a local favorite...although we have a much different theme planned...flaming giant Tikis, light effect palm trees, Indonesian sarongs, etc. maybe little one person tropical island art cars?

[gyre]

You're kidding yourself.

Remember that crooked cops don't share with the honest ones.

Crime 80-90% under reported here.
Justice department found a drop of 80% of rapes in Baltimore in one year.
Believe that too?
They don't.

If issues are rare, I sure am unusually successful having complaints upheld against the police.

Not commiting a crime, not being arrested?
Let's just say it's safer, not a guarantee.

Texas is the state upholding the right to execute people tried without representation, etc, etc.

I personally know of more police corruption there than you do, and I don't live there.

Rare would be murder for hire, or in furtherance of a conspiracy, and that happens too.

We recently sent cops to prison for drug dealing here.
Not that rare.

Unless you're in certain places, open drug use isn't common.
Not everyone uses.
It's totally unnecessary out there, even if you use.

It's a good idea to ask about any random food or drink, especially cookies or cake.

More drugs in reno.
You really need them there.

Safer to use drugs on any public street than on the playa.


Love the atf jumpsuit story.
That's funny.

[Sic Pup]

So what is the consensus...are you going to burning man as another opportunity to get stoned or to see everything?

Yes

[junglesmacks]

There are people doing drugs at BM? I've never noticed..