Theme Camp - Camp Tax Survey

[honers]

I have been the coordinator of a number of different theme camps since 2000 ranging in size from 25 people to the Aetheria Village of 400 people in 2003. Every year I get different responses to our camp tax, some feeling it's too high and others shocked that it's not more. I have been searching for some info about what amount other camps 'charge' as their shared camp tax. I would love any info from those who organize or have participated in a theme camp that has a camp tax.

MY QUESTIONS?

1. What do you pay as a participant of your theme camp? Is this a flat tax or is there a sliding scale?

2. Does this include meals as part of a shared kitchen? Can someone opt out of meals and get a discount?

3. Does this include your water?

4. Does your camp have generated power?

5. Does your camp pay for yearly storage?

6. Does your camp rent a truck?

7. What other expensese does your camp tax pay for? Shade structures, sound systems, 'decorations', gifts...

8. How many people in your camp?

9. How much time do you personally spend building the camp both pre-playa and on the playa?

10. Does your camp have some BIG DONORS who subsidize many of the large camp expenses?

Thanks for the info. I'll publish the results when I get them. If this info has already been collected then please let me know where I can look at the report.

Thanks,

Papa Bear
(of JynaCamp, Aetheria, PodVille, SloBurn & Base Camp Big Balls)

[stuart]

1. flat tax
2. no
3. no
4. yes
5. no
6. yes
7. power, sound, structure
8. 50
9. months and months and months
10. no, but some of us have purchased expensive infrastrucutre for other projects that we are bringing to the camp at no charge.

[desertswine]

not to be out spoken,shouldn't the trem "camp tax" be changed to camp fee /fund,if it is a tax,i'm sure the IRS isn't going to be happy. Cause you will always find someone getting their panties in a twist.Lothos

[regynalonglank]

1. 80 flat
2. yes, dinners only, no opt out discount
3. includes water for showering, grey water removal. we each bring 2 gals drinking water per person per day and store it communally in the kitchen
4. yes
5. yes
6. yes
7. communal art project, shade, sound, decor and some consummables
8. around 50
9. several full weekends preplaya, build and tear down before and after
10. no, although certain members gift things to the group, like food for meals or other things we need, and store them at their own expense between.

[Ron]

1. $100, flat.
2. We don't have regular camp meals, nor a camp kitchen. However, it does include two or three large camp dinners we'll have during the week.
3. No.
4. Yes.
5. No.
6. Only if we have to. This year we're using trailers we're borrowing for free!
7. Our Home Dome (a big dome with comfy furnishings for hanging out in) and Shady Tower (our public art).
8. 35 to 50, by the time all is said and done.
9. Dozens or hundreds of hours.
10. Not in terms of cash, no. But yes in terms of labor.

Love to see your data when you're done...

Ron

[cornelius]

You mean charging people to camp with you? Camp Tax makes it sound like the Borg is charging you for being a theme camp.

Damn, where have I been all these years? That would've solved our problem in the beginning. We've always had "hangers on" and non-responsibilitarians who just show up and "uuuuuh I'm like a friend of Archie's friend and uuuuuh they said it was cool to camp with you guys. (then shouts our camp name enthusiastically with a raised fist) Sheesh.

Call me a hippy but when our group of friends started coming together in Black Rock City we all just had meetings and talked about what to bring and we shared everything and had a great bonding time. Then THEY came. With their averted eyes and cars with no tent or water. They would show up at food time and then leave. They were mysteriously absent when set up or tear down time came about. hmmmmmmm. Camp tax? Good frickin' idea. To solve our problem we just split off into a seperate faction and worked on our project. Anyone not directly working with us on our project was not invited and encouraged to camp with THEM.

[Chai Guy]

Then THEY came.

DUDE! I sooo know those guys, so where are you camping this year? I want to be sure to send them over when they get lost and show up at my camp again.

[honers]

Camp Tax makes it sound like the Borg is charging you for being a theme camp.

I should have known the word TAX would conjour up some image of a 3 headed Karl Rove. Just to clarify, the TAX or FEE (whatever fits your world view better, it's all semantics to me) is simply a sum of all our expenses divided by the amount of people in the camp. Nothing more complicated or sinister than that.

I guess the only confusion arises when that amount come to a higher number that people expect (because they aren't part of the planning process). That's why I wanted to get a rough idea of what other camp's shared expenses are to know whether we are in the ballpark or whether we are managing our money poorly and thus shelling out way more $$ than we should be.

Here are our answers:

1. $150 - $200. This is a flat fee whether you come for 1 day or 1 week. Everyon pays the fee, even the main camp organizers.

2. Yes. This includes dinner every night (7 nights) and food for breakfast & lunch. No discount if you don't want the meals.

3. Yes. Includes both drinking, cooking & cleaning water.

4. Yes. Usually 1-2 generators.

5. Yes. Most of us are from NY & Seattle. So we pay $55/month for a small storage unit (5x8) in Reno. It sucks, but we have no where else to store this stuff.

6. Yes. Usually a 20'.

7. We have a large shade structure, showers, camp art installation. We used to build huge cardboard PODs that we used for a lecture area & kitchen. These were about $1200 each and each took a full day to build. We have definitely scaled back a little from this.

8. 25-35 (although we used to camp with 50-65 people)

9. I spend a ton of time pre-camp and then at least two full days on the playa getting things set up. We then usually do a couple art installations on the playa which take another day or so to set up.

10. I wish. Although there are about 4 or 5 of us that routinely put in about $500 more than everyone else to cover the cost of crazy ideas we have during the year, we don't have any other funding or fundraisers.

Thanks for all your input. Burning Man is always a great lesson in group organization and it's nice to get a sense of how other camps solve similar problems/challenges.

[Guest]

Did you ever look into Black Rock Storage in Empire ?
We have a 5 x 10 space for $30 a month there.

[dinosaurwilly]

1. What do you pay as a participant of your theme camp? Is this a flat tax or is there a sliding scale?

$120/person flat

2. Does this include meals as part of a shared kitchen? Can someone opt out of meals and get a discount?

We have two meals brought in to the playa from the real world on Wed and Thursday. Pizza and KFC baby!

3. Does this include your water?

No

4. Does your camp have generated power?

Yes

5. Does your camp pay for yearly storage?

Yes. $700/yr for storage at empire

6. Does your camp rent a truck?

Yes. $1200 worth! yikes, our biggest expense

7. What other expensese does your camp tax pay for? Shade structures, sound systems, 'decorations', gifts...

8. How many people in your camp?

35-ish

9. How much time do you personally spend building the camp both pre-playa and on the playa?

about 40 hours pre-playa
about 10 hours on the playa

10. Does your camp have some BIG DONORS who subsidize many of the large camp expenses?

Yes, one or two. But BIG is a relative term. some people contribute $300-$500



Thanks for the great discussion, I have been wondering this stuff myself
Check out our camp web page!
www.dinosaurwilly.com/barf

[zorro sings]

1. What do you pay as a participant of your theme camp? Is this a flat tax or is there a sliding scale? From each according to their ability;to each according to their need but everybody pays at least $30

2. Does this include meals as part of a shared kitchen? Can someone opt out of meals and get a discount? No and N/a

3. Does this include your water? No

4. Does your camp have generated power? Yes
5. Does your camp pay for yearly storage?Depeciation for car outside garage.We also pay dumping fees for the large amount of non-returning gear.
6. Does your camp rent a truck?Yes $800 expense.

7. What other expensese does your camp tax pay for? Shade structures, sound systems, 'decorations', gifts... A bicycle and full use of infrastruture.(Custom shade tent,generator,sound system etc).

8. How many people in your camp? 10-12

9. How much time do you personally spend building the camp both pre-playa and on the playa?Every year less time spent pre-playa.Still at least 40 hours or so.8 hours at The Project.

10. Does your camp have some BIG DONORS who subsidize many of the large camp expenses? The two founders have burned a lot of long green over the years.

[Guest]

1. What do you pay as a participant of your theme camp? Is this a flat tax or is there a sliding scale?
Add up costs and split them up the Burn. Usually $200-$250 per person
2. Does this include meals as part of a shared kitchen? Can someone opt out of meals and get a discount?
Includes all food, no one wants to opt out.
3. Does this include your water?
Yes
4. Does your camp have generated power?
Yes
5. Does your camp pay for yearly storage?
Yes
6. Does your camp rent a truck?
Trailer
7. What other expensese does your camp tax pay for? Shade structures, sound systems, 'decorations', gifts...
Yes - Shade, Sound, Furniture .....
8. How many people in your camp?
12
9. How much time do you personally spend building the camp both pre-playa and on the playa?
1 Day on Playa
10. Does your camp have some BIG DONORS who subsidize many of the large camp expenses?
No

[diane o'thirst]

1. Elective flat tax (we didn't force anyone to pay, therefore most did)
2. It was mostly meals in a shared kitchen.
3. One year it included water but we stopped doing that.
4. We had several generators.
5. Yes.
6. No. What trucks we used were privately owned and volunteered by their owners in our camp.
7. Lantern fuel, wood for the burn barrels, some project materials.
8. Varies from 150 to 40.
9. Discounting the project, we had people on the Playa as early as three days prior to gates open.
10. Yes.

[Driveway]

We have two meals brought in to the playa from the real world on Wed and Thursday. Pizza and KFC baby!

You know it's called KFC 'cause they can't legally use the word 'chicken' right?

[Elemental666]

why can't they use the word chicken?

[ZaphodBurner]

>1. What do you pay as a participant of your theme camp? Is this a flat >tax or is there a sliding scale?

People pay what they can. Some of us are in over a thousand dollars. Others are in for less than a hundred.

>2. Does this include meals as part of a shared kitchen? Can someone opt >out of meals and get a discount?

BYO, and clean your own shit up.

>3. Does this include your water?

No.

>4. Does your camp have generated power?

Yes.

>6. Does your camp rent a truck?

Yes. Thanks to U-Haul's pricing stupidity, we're unloading the truck before opening day and dropping it off in Reno on Monday. Got a lot of crap to burn! Muahahaa.

>7. What other expensese does your camp tax pay for? Shade structures, >sound systems, 'decorations', gifts...

All privately funded.

>9. How much time do you personally spend building the camp both >pre-playa and on the playa?

Most weekends this summer. Others haven't at all. Everybody is expected to assist in construction and/or disassembly. Assuming, that is, that they want valve stems in their tires by Sunday.

>10. Does your camp have some BIG DONORS who subsidize many of the >large camp expenses?

Three couples are in for over $500-$1000 each. Others are in for much less, some are, you know..."broke"...even though they make much more than others who are contributing.


-c

[DNAinVEGAS]

why can't they use the word chicken?

According to what I read on CNN a few years ago, tests were done on KFC and the FDA found that it was so genetically enhanced that it exceeded FDA standards for chicken (or something like that). basically, the dna has been so altered during growth that it no longer is concidered chicken by FDA standards.

Whatever it is, it still tastes good! LOL!

[dinosaurwilly]

Doh! Seeing as we are black-rock animal research farm, I guess chemically altered chicken will work for us! We'll just call it "Kentucky fried chicken-ish"

anyhow, all the stories about altered chicken at KFC are false, check out ..
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/kfc.asp



Guy1: By the way, did you hear about the new 6 legged chickens KFC is using now?
Guy2: No, havent heard of that, how do they taste?
Guy1: I don't know, no one has been able to catch one yet.

[diane o'thirst]

Yeah, I heard they changed it to KFC because people were getting frightened away by the "Fried" in the name and their profits were dropping off. Slightly more plausible...

[Mind Scan]

1. share of all costs

2. we share all food costs

3. yes

4. yes

5. no

6. an RV

7. art installation costs incl. sets, electronics, sound system, shade structure

8. unknown, at least 8

9. at least 6 weekend days in the summer

10. I wish!