Camp bitch session

jbelson · Post by **jbelson** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:43 am

This seems like a good forum for this.
I know a lot of people are camping in groups, and of course not everyone will agree on everything. Sometimes sharing the drama helps you deal with it.
Here's my bitch, just to throw it out there.
While trying to decide a camp layout, I suggested to somehow keep the tent and camping area a little protected from the general area and dome entrance to protect peoples stuff from the bad intentions of strangers. You know, just a little thought to help prevent theft. In responce, I get questions on where my energy is, what I'm doing to bring that kind of karma into my world. One response reads "Getting something stolen is not in my energy, Vibration, or thoughts. So I dont have those experiences".
And another "I find for myself stealing comes more from the energy one generates within themselves than any outside source".
And the recomendation "Lets get out there and create the reality/space/zone that we want. we can do it."

I feel like I'm the crazy one for thinking we shouldn't make it easy for people to steal from camp when we have big performances scheduled.

That is all. Rip or bitch away.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:56 am

Oh dear dog...
There is a whole lot of opportunistic theft on the playa, and I firmly belong to the "don't tempt people by making it easy" "camp." Sure, I think if you look at everyone as a potential thief/rapist/alien abductor you do put out energy that can make it more likely to have wierd unpleasent experiences.

However, that does not mean that you should open yourself to every scumbag--and they do exist, mich as I don't like to admit sometimes--on the playa...

AFter all as Tom Lehrer said in "Folk Song Army"

Remember the war against Franco, that's the kind where each of us belongs, they may have won all the battles--but we had all the good songs...

btw--I have a cowbell I'd like to gift you. Can we arrange something?

Sean_til_Dawn · Post by **Sean_til_Dawn** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:58 pm

I came back to my camp one night last year and my generator was right next to the road. Someone was staging it to be put into a getaway vehicle. I put it back where it belonged.

In hindsight, I should have just sat down behind the camo net and watched it for awhile. With the bullhorn, the spotlight, the camera, and several neighbors.

Heh.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:05 pm

While trying to decide a camp layout, I suggested to somehow keep the tent and camping area a little protected from the general area and dome entrance to protect peoples stuff from the bad intentions of strangers. You know, just a little thought to help prevent theft. In responce, I get questions on where my energy is, what I'm doing to bring that kind of karma into my world. One response reads "Getting something stolen is not in my energy, Vibration, or thoughts. So I dont have those experiences".
And another "I find for myself stealing comes more from the energy one generates within themselves than any outside source".
And the recomendation "Lets get out there and create the reality/space/zone that we want. we can do it."

Oh. My. I could never camp with those folks. 30 years ago yes, but not now. You are not crazy, just realistic about the human animal. Your energy and karma are fine I'm sure.

I know one of the main bitches in our camp, we're all control freaks and too bright for our own good. It is like herding cats to get us to do anything together past pitching the shade and maybe setting up the art. And larry and I are glued together at the hip, or, well, blush... nevermind.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:03 pm

jbelson wrote: In responce, I get questions on where my energy is, what I'm doing to bring that kind of karma into my world. One response reads "Getting something stolen is not in my energy, Vibration, or thoughts. So I dont have those experiences".

Interesting. I didn't realize other people believe that philosophy. I refuse to live in fear, so while our neighbors are putting up security lights and alarm systems and "keeping their vehicles off the street at night," I drive an open-top Jeep and some nights I don't even bother to take off the stereo face. I've parked in the worst parts in Portland, been in some pretty stupid places, and the only time I've ever been ripped off is on a college campus.

On the other hand, the guy that raised me was tortured by the Gestapo and spent time in a Nazi concentration camp, was a career cop and taught me the following: "Never, ever underestimate the depth of evil that people will do to each other." With that wisdom, I protect the safety of my self and family and recognize that stuff is just stuff. Why spend $300 on an alarm to protect a $150 stereo? I dunno. As I get older I'm less cavalier, but mostly if you just make the shit more trouble than it's worth, or too risky to steal, people won't.

I think you have the right idea. People who are desperate or out of their head on something will do things that they wouldn't normally do, so you just have to be a little cautious. That's not invoking victim energy, just common sense.

-c

5x5 · Post by **5x5** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:17 pm

i tend to go with the "trust in allah but tether your camel" approach. no point in being paranoid, but why make it an open invitation?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:09 pm

Dang, jbelson, we may be building a consensus of "Those children are lucky they have someone trustworthy to watch out for them."

Oh, by the way, I was looking for nieve vegans in another thread. Would any of your camp mates like to become tacoes?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:34 pm

Jesus dude, best of luck camping with folks like that. It's one thing to be paranoid and another to not bother ever locking your bike.

Some people suck and no matter how many crystals you lick it aint gonna change.

For many reasons beyond theft, it's just generally a good idea in camp to plan at least a mild separation of public and private space.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:12 pm

stuart wrote:Some people suck and no matter how many crystals you lick it aint gonna change.

dont know what crystals you been licking but they damn near change everything for me.

hunter S · Post by **hunter S** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:16 pm

jbelson, You bring to light a great opening, "camp bitch session" I know in our camp we all get a little stressed in the "planing phase" put creative people in a room with a few practical creative thinkers & the egos can start jousting! I find a few questions about the issue in debate alows for peace full resolution in most cases. For exsample to the persons making the assult "let me see if I understand your concerns?" "do see away of creating _________ and incorperating some of my concerns too?'
I know it sound alike i'm simplifing things but rather than getting wrapped around the axel of theft & VERY offensive insults helping to find a sollution pryor to the burn keeps ugly little troll like thoughts from blowing apart a creative group. our camp has a night before the burn gathering we clear the air our montra "what happens off the plya stays off the plya" I don't know if this is help or demeaning your gripe I hope it's help

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:34 pm

spectabillis wrote:
stuart wrote:Some people suck and no matter how many crystals you lick it aint gonna change.
dont know what crystals you been licking but they damn near change everything for me.

*cackle*

We've told our newbies that stuff is a lot safer than in the real world, but after a dust storm and/or when there are a thousand bikes piled around center camp, and they're all playa-white, and people have ingesting godknowswhat, people tend to confuse their stuff with others'.

That's a positive spin on "some asshole on drugs will steal your shit if you just leave it there, and they might not even realize they're doing it."

-c

swampdog · Post by **swampdog** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:40 pm

I'm really disappointed in this thread. I thought someone was getting together a camp called "Camp Bitch Session" and I wanted to sign up. Maybe I should start one for next year.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:45 pm

do that and I'll

Scratch your eyes out.

jbelson · Post by **jbelson** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:57 pm

The camp was not of my choosing, but my fire conclave is all camping together and friends of friends hooked us in. I think there are a lot of sophmore burners that see the event as hugs and snuggles, or they dont really have much stuff. I know I'm one of the providers for my camp, so I have a lot of investments to protect.

But I'll tell ya, the e-playa has really clued me into what happens out there.

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:40 pm

Do you view the world and benevalent or malevalent? Constant mental focus with extreme intention can create our reality. Why not choose to believe that if someone accidentally bumbles into your camp that they will be a fabulous person whom to have an interaction, rather than focus on bandits? Sometimes something simple like a sign that says "STOP! THINK
ABOUT YOUR ACTIONS!" Can make someone do just that! The ones who then choose to invade your camp truly probably are ill intentioned. One in Washington State, we camped way up near the Idaho panhandle. 80 miles from the closest small town! We had a fire going and out of the shadows came 2 mountain men carrying rifles! These guys had little to say but did take us up on our invitation for dinner. I think we all were hearing the song from "Deliverance" playing in our heads simultaneously! Obviously, had they wanted to take us down, there were only 10 of us, none with weapons. (Except the Force!) Even if we were armed, I am sure they knew the territory, and could have blasted 5-7 of us before we knew what hit us! Clearly they had no ill intentions!
"Expect the best of people, yet prepare for the worst!"

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

[email protected]

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:57 am

Constant mental focus with extreme intention can create our reality.

give me a cite for that. Until then, I am calling bullshit. There are billions of people in this world getting rudely fucked over for no other reason than where they were born. All the happy thoughts and pink bubbles folks are gathering up are not really affecting the situation. Does anyone really believe, for example, that the tsunami happened because we weren't doing enough yoga?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:12 am

No, Stuart, the tsunami happened because we weren't taking enough of the Governer's dietary suppliments. And you call yourself a Kalifornian....

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:13 am

How exactly dos one know that all the good thoughts, prayers etc, are doing no good? Perhaps things would be even worse without these thoughts and prayers. I am not much into the mental paradigm of world religions, yet I do believe a good quote: "Science may someday learn what the spiritual have always known!" For me, the mental reality map of the world that dictates that "if it can't be scientifically measured, its not there!" is outdated. This is only my opinion! There are Rose colored glasses, Reality colored glasses, and Shit colored glasses, choose which pair you wish to wear every morning! I like the reality ones myself!

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

jbelson · Post by **jbelson** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:58 am

JediDale wrote:Do you view the world and benevalent or malevalent? Constant mental focus with extreme intention can create our reality. Why not choose to believe that if someone accidentally bumbles into your camp that they will be a fabulous person whom to have an interaction, rather than focus on bandits?

"Expect the best of people, yet prepare for the worst!"

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

What a cunfusing reply.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:07 pm

You're not crazy; they're just lazy. Since they seem to want you to do all the thinking for them, do it and tell them you're in charge now. If they bitch, just say, "YOU WANT KHARMA? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE KHARMA!!!"

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:17 pm

Apart from the whole theft thing, they are going to want the whole public space/private space thing going. Hangovers, seductions, private time--they want a little "awayness" from all that. You can tell them that's why there's an inside and an outside and do the anti-theft by stealth, if that's what it takes....

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:36 pm

Perhaps things would be even worse without these thoughts and prayers.

this is not what the subjects in the OP were implying. They communicated a causal situation. In my book 'Think positive thoughts and your unlocked bike won't get yanked' is not very sound advice.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:39 pm

Yeah, to whatever extent that that works externally I believe it would have to be mostly or completely person to person contact: i.e. this person is so nice and so relaxing to be around that I bear them no illwill and will not play a nasty trick on them.

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:46 pm

JediDale wrote:How exactly dos one know that all the good thoughts, prayers etc, are doing no good?

Because there is a fundamental egotism inherent in the very notion: as if one, asone sought to "create one's own reality" were free-willed in a sense that those other people inhabiting that reality were not.

If I want to knock you over the head and take your wallet, the good thoughts that are going to make me step back and rethink that are going to be my good thoughts, not yours. Now, if you want to say that your good thoughts are going to cause my good thoughts, and want to know how I know that isn't true, I have a little homework for you.

1. Go read up on Occam's razor.
2. Go read the Diary of Anne Frank.

3. Go find somebody who grew up as a member of a religious
or ethnic minority in a redneck area, and go bounce that
karma theory off of him. Be prepared to get an earful.

I offer no promises that you won't need to make an
emergency visit to the dentist to have a few teeth reimplanted.

Not quite sure of where it was that you got the odd notion that the scientific method was outdated, but I'd have to say that the only thing that your theory suggests to me is that you've lead a very sheltered life. What I'd suggest to you is that you might want to do a little more soul searching before claiming enlightenment. No matter how much metaphysical rhetoric you try to wrap this up in, you're still left in the position of blaming the victim for the actions of the aggressor and that, at its core, betrays a fairly regressive attitude, one that even the robber barons of the 19th century would have shied away from.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:55 am

Do you view the world and benevalent or malevalent? Constant mental focus with extreme intention can create our reality. Why not choose to believe that if someone accidentally bumbles into your camp that they will be a fabulous person whom to have an interaction, rather than focus on bandits?

"Expect the best of people, yet prepare for the worst!"

And what's the problem with those comments? He asked a valid question IMHO, at least it matches one of my core beliefs and that is people are fundamentally good. Why do we automatically assume the worst of strangers? What has conditioned us to respond that way? Perhaps a little self-reflection is in order...that is if people are comfortable doing that?

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:35 am

Let me start out by saying that I grew up in the 60s-70s in LA. La Puente.
If you know where that is, you know I did not lead a sheltered life! Actually I got beaten up almost daily and having to fight foes who always got the upper hand. Out numbered, out gunned, I did what I had to survive. It was not pretty. My body has some minor damage that can't be repaired due to conflicts. Actually most people who go through such a war zone childhood later see it for the learning experience it was. That is, AFTER they work through their hate and resentments!
Every one grows through their life getting just what they need to progress
spiritually. No, I did not like the vast majority of my life lessons, yet they have given me the ability to understand others inner demons and have a certain degree of compassion for them. Yes I have read the diary of Anne Frank. Try on "Mans Search For Meaning" by Dr. Vicktor Frankl. Or "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck. M.D., "Power vs. Force" by David R. Hawkins M.D.

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:55 am

Kinetic IV wrote:
Do you view the world and benevalent or malevalent? Constant mental focus with extreme intention can create our reality. Why not choose to believe that if someone accidentally bumbles into your camp that they will be a fabulous person whom to have an interaction, rather than focus on bandits?

"Expect the best of people, yet prepare for the worst!"
And what's the problem with those comments? He asked a valid question IMHO, at least it matches one of my core beliefs and that is people are fundamentally good.

Amusing, considering the source. Ever flame anybody, Kinetic? As usual, I'll try to hold off on naming names, though I'm sure that those who've lurked can think of a few people you went to work on, for no better reason than the fact that everybody else seemed to be joining in - and now you want to be touchy-feely and warm and gooshy? Give me a break. Leo Buscaglia you're not. Not that I completely mind - the late Mr.Buscaglia made me want to puke - but let's not pretend to be something we're not, OK?

What's wrong with JediDale's remarks is that he is off in la-la-land. Presented with concrete examples of people with good thoughts still having bad things done to them, he comes back with a vague, handwaving defense that these bad things were what the victims needed to "spiritually progress". Really? A Jewish girl, still in her early adolescence, needed to be turned into a rotting pile of meat in order to "spiritually progress"? Who's this guy's guru? Charles Manson?

What a wonderfully convenient philosophy, if one happens to be a sociopath. Nothing that you do to anybody else can be wrong, because whatever the impact your actions on him may be, you know that they will be beneficial, so every action, no matter how mailicious, becomes a favor done to whoever one touches, even if one is touching them with the business end of a bayonet. Which points to what is truly assinine about the whole concept of karma to begin with - and by this, I mean the original concept, not the fluffy bunny giddiness of the New Age.

Supposedly, the apparently innocent sufferer was getting exactly what he (or she) deserved, as retribution for misdeeds done in a past life which he (or she) couldn't remember. But if at any given point in time, those being harmed were being given nothing worse than their just desserts, meaning that those inflicting the harm inflicted nothing worse than justice on those suffering, then at what point did anybody have the opportunity to do any wrong, and thus accumulate any negative karma? Put this into a New Age context, and the only change is that instead of asking about actions in a past life, we're asking about actions in the more immediate past of one's present life.

The whole notion is an exercise in self-contradiction and, as I have said, the argument offered runs head-on into Occam's razor. "The burden of proof lies on the proponent" or "do not assume the existence of an entity without necessity" - remember? Harmless goofiness, perhaps, if one starts believing in those ghost stories some of the local flakes like to tell, but when it gets in the way of making practical decisions, more than a little bit scary. Pursue this thinking to its logical conclusion and you will, to borrow an illustration from one of the local lists, be left steeping in front of a moving car without looking, firm in your conviction that if not looking both ways means that you get hit, then that's only because being hit by that car is exactly what you needed for your "spiritual progress".

On the level of basic common sense, this thinking fails miserably. On a spiritual level, it is pure laziness, a belief that that this world was created by God (or the gods, as one may prefer) as a place where Man can be given the experiences he needs to grow, with no real need for Man to respond with anything but apathy, no need for Man to be enganged in the world on his own behalf, in anything but a passive way. Those so enlightened are as the student who shows up for class and refuses to do any of the exercises or participate in any way, thinking that all of the learning going on around him will magically pour into his head, with no need for his own active engagement in the process. That's not philosophy, that's a lack of motivation, and spiritual growth like that can be had for the price of a few too many hits taken on a poorly cleaned bong.

Kinetic IV wrote:Why do we automatically assume the worst of strangers?

That's a straw man argument, and I think you know why. If 100 people walk by a stereo left out in the open, with 99 of them walking by with nothing but good thoughts in mind, but the 100th being a thief, guess what? Most of the people coming by - 99% of them, in fact - will be decent people, but your stereo will still be gone.

Security precautions, in order to be effective at all, have to be based on one's understanding of what the worst visitors might be up to, not on what the average visitor has in mind. Which brings me to the one question I've found myself wondering most often during my life.

WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE FEEL THE NEED TO BE TOLD WHAT THEY ALREADY KNEW? Putting one's valauables in a location where they can't easily be walked off with is a controversial notion? Oh, come on!

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:02 am

JediDale wrote:Let me start out by saying that I grew up in the 60s-70s in LA. La Puente.
If you know where that is, you know I did not lead a sheltered life!

Bullcrap. I'm sure that most of us have heard this line. "On the Internet, nobody know that you're a dog". People have been fabricating backgrounds for themselves since the days of ARPAnet, and this one looks like it was made to order.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:49 am

I am willing to grant the La Puente truth. But it's still sheltered relative to, say, Cambodia during that same time period. Were your peers in that country getting what they needed?

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:58 am

I asked an honest question, I appreciate the answers I got. I'm simply trying to look at this from multiple angles.

I am not an angel, never have been, never will be. But at the same time I realize I've made mistakes...permit me to learn from them if I can.

Now back to the discussion.

Camp bitch session

Camp bitch session

Re: Camp bitch session

Security, Safety, Cautiousness, Faith

Alter Your Reality

Re: Security, Safety, Cautiousness, Faith

Re: Alter Your Reality

Did I open a can of worms or what?

Re: Did I open a can of worms or what?