"Underground Railroad" for the Exploited?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:40 pm

OKay, it's happening again. We're getting the wierd "I give you a ticket and you sleep w/me" threads. "Cook for our camp." "Be our pool based sex slave."

It's not that I don't think these arrangements can't work, but the posters seem to have no clue how easily it could turn icky and explotative. No offers of time off to see the event. No up front awknowledgement that if things don't work out, fall back plans will be made.

Do people end up on the playa with no ride home except with the creep who brought them? Yes. Do some of them run away and find help? Yes. Do they run away and not find help? I don't know. Do we need to explicitely say that if someone gets into that kind of trouble they should leave? When does it interfere with radical self-reliance? When does it become reverse exploitation by someone taking a ticket with not intention of reciprocating?

Yes, I believe that people who cannot afford to go to the burn on their own can find a camp that will sponcer them in exchange for work. I don't know what happens when this goes sour. And is it better it go sour with a friend or a stranger.

In any case, be explicit about expectations on both sides. A $250 ticket and room and board for a week should only buy 20-30 hours of labor. And a hireling aint gonna belive in your camp the same way.

I don't know. It's complicate and distressing.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:13 pm

Has anyone ever heard of anyone who arrived on a "work visa" and then had to abandon their camp because of the conditions. Really, I can imagine it going wrong more for the sponsor than the employee (someone shows up, you get them in, they stay with you for a few days then disappear to a cooler camp where they've made friends or, even worse, already have friends).

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:39 pm

Bummer, when I saw this thread title, I thought Fishy was trying to get these guys to play at the Burn this year:

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:51 pm

[quote="DallasPlaya"]Has anyone ever heard of anyone who arrived on a "work visa" and then had to abandon their camp because of the conditions. [quote]I think Badger posted something about a japanese girl who got a ride from some berkeley creepo and after they were through the gate he let her know sexual favors were expected. I'm not saying that it doesn't cut both ways. I guess if there were lots of "take me to the playa" threads instead of "do this for us on the playa" threads I might have cut the other way.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:59 pm

It's a receipe for disaster on both sides. You also have to wonder what happened to the original person they had set up for this gig (and if they're just now getting around to finding a maid. pool boy, chef you have to wonder how much planning they've put into their other projects).

Bottom line is that anyone that responds to a request of this type probably deserves it and vice versa.

zorro sings · Post by **zorro sings** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:30 pm

Ya'll assuming these posts are for real.I'm guessing "the pool guy/girl" thing comes from the same Project scarred mind that "organized" last years classic,"Camp Hedon From the Planet Wanton ".

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:03 pm

I wouldn't worry too much. If there's anywhere I'd want to be where I needed a ride/water/food/shelter, it's Burning Man. I just wish I could trade my sexual favors for something. I feel so worthless. :(

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:22 pm

zorro sings wrote:Ya'll assuming these posts are for real.I'm guessing "the pool guy/girl" thing comes from the same Project scarred mind that "organized" last years classic,"Camp Hedon From the Planet Wanton ".

Yeah, I assumed these posts were for real. And of course I assumed the guys giving out info at Playa Info at 10 pm were real too. I learned from that but maybe I didn't learn enough. Did we get played like a violin with that pool post? Hmmmm.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:31 pm

Has anyone ever heard of anyone who arrived on a "work visa" and then had to abandon their camp because of the conditions. Really, I can imagine it going wrong more for the sponsor than the employee (someone shows up, you get them in, they stay with you for a few days then disappear to a cooler camp where they've made friends or, even worse, already have friends).

I've heard the stories. I've dealt with the stories. None have been pretty. NONE of them. And yes, it seems like the majority of these trade-for-work situations were exploitive. Sort of a mild form of hostage taking. Id suggest people stay the hell away from such offers.

cornelius · Post by **cornelius** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:55 pm

I would TOTALLY hide someone out and sneak them out in my car if they like escaped and stuff. That'd be cool. Especially if it was a hot girl.

I hate to see anyone treated in such a horrible way. What if the dood is ugly and stinks and is a real control freak asshole? Then what? Yer right Cryp that sounds real creepy and icky. What if after the event, if the victim didn't escape, then the guy would choke them out and leave 'em in the desert or something?

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:22 am

*In creepy voice* "Don't you touch my dog!!!!"

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:27 am

Cornelius, I doubt that the scenario you've spinned is likely. I think someone of that type would use the playa as bait and never get you there or else just skip the burningman angle at all. My gut guess. I think that despite 35,000 people last year the demographics are still too small for that. I might be wrong. And I don't know that someone would have to be hidden per se, just not be left alone...find them a big friendly camp with persons of known good character and he or she would probably be alright. Possibly get them to the mental health branch of the Emergency Services Department if they need any of that reassurance.

Thank you, Badger.

Cabanasprings · Post by **Cabanasprings** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:34 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:OKay, it's happening again. We're getting the wierd "I give you a ticket and you sleep w/me" threads. "Cook for our camp." "Be our pool based sex slave."

It's not that I don't think these arrangements can't work, but the posters seem to have no clue how easily it could turn icky and explotative. No offers of time off to see the event. No up front awknowledgement that if things don't work out, fall back plans will be made.

Do people end up on the playa with no ride home except with the creep who brought them? Yes. Do some of them run away and find help? Yes. Do they run away and not find help? I don't know. Do we need to explicitely say that if someone gets into that kind of trouble they should leave? When does it interfere with radical self-reliance? When does it become reverse exploitation by someone taking a ticket with not intention of reciprocating?

Yes, I believe that people who cannot afford to go to the burn on their own can find a camp that will sponcer them in exchange for work. I don't know what happens when this goes sour. And is it better it go sour with a friend or a stranger.

In any case, be explicit about expectations on both sides. A $250 ticket and room and board for a week should only buy 20-30 hours of labor. And a hireling aint gonna belive in your camp the same way.

I don't know. It's complicate and distressing.

Excuse me but what credentials do you posses to arbitrarily inform us that a $250 ticket is worth 20-30 hours. Maybe it's worth 60-70. Seems to me it's worth as much as the person is willing to contract for. What better life lesson than to put yourself in a position of servitude.

If you are of legal age and the only way to make it is as an indentured servant you should go for it. Make the best of it and feel great that you are so inovative.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:46 pm

Okay at the Federal Minumum Wage $5.15 (which is also the state minimum wage in Nevada) it would be 48.5 hours to earn your ticket. So we're both wrong, Cabana. But for me it is more complicated... I'm not saying it can't work, but that the things I see posted here are very poorly thought out, and are not the sort of job applications I'd apply for, wages aside.

I gave 32 hours of volenteer work to the llc in 2003. I didn't have time to see the event. 60-70 hours of work in the heat would have left me absolutely no time for anything else much but unwinding. It would be a total waste of my time to be in BM and not see it. YMMV.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:03 pm

Warning signs to look for are a camp bringing hired virgins to the event. Especially people that had never even heard of Burning Man before. Another sign is discouraging said individuals from using their own transportation. Pressuring them to take some sort of group transport such as an RV. These people will probably be paid more than just the ticket because they have no concept of the event and the ticket by itself isn't likely to be enough to entice them to work in the desert for a week.

Now once they are there, they are completely at the mercy of the camp honcho. They don't know anyone at the event, have never even heard of it, don't know didly doo doo about anything and ... they have no ride home. Not only are they going to be putting baby wipes in the shitters, they are likely to get attitude about the entire event. It might even result in a spectacular mutiny ... if they are lucky ... and silent misery if they aren't.

I know for a fact that this happens, I have seen it happen.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:34 am

yeah isolation and the only guarenteed ride home do add up to one BIG stick...

"Underground Railroad" for the Exploited?

"Underground Railroad" for the Exploited?

Re: "Underground Railroad" for the Exploited?