Deep cycle batteries

Bob A · Post by **Bob A** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:46 am

Elemental666 wrote: If I got 2 6v batteries in series and an 750w continuous inverter to comprise the battery box. A decent multiphase charger for charging.

How does Cold Cranking Amps relate to Amp Hours? I haven't had a lot of luck get Amp Hour specs on the deep cycle batteries I've seen so far.

The battery setup sounds cool.

Cold cranking amps are not usually attached to with deep cycle batteries. If you are looking at a battery that lists cold crank amps then it either is not a deep cycle or it is a hybrid which are in-between batteries not as good as either deep cycle or starting batteries but a little but of each.

Cold cranking amps is the battery ability to suck a lot of power out very fast to start a car. And the battery is designed to take that abuse. Amps hours is the batteries ability to drain at a much slower rate over a long period of time. Batteries are designed to either dump fast or last over the long haul. Also starter batteries are not designed to be drained more than 20% for any period of time. A true deep cycle can usually handle up to a 50% drain repeatedly if it is recharged regularly.

Bob A

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:19 pm

I have a question - just bought a deep cycle battery from a auto parts store (name rhymes with Yucks). Put it on the smart charger, says it needs a charge. Check with a hygrometer, all cells read around 1.230 (which on my tester is the low side of fair, just above no good). So I leave it on the charger all night (around 15 hours total), next morning it is still in charge mode. Specific gravity is about same (a bit lower). An examination of the battery reveals one side is bulged out, the opposite side is bulged in.

So I return the battery, ask for an exchange (which they do not have). They test it (with a hand held tester) and say it is perfectly fine (volts and amps). I mention the specific gravity, they test it and get the same results. At this point the manager said it was "normal" for deep cycle batteries to have specific gravities in this range (fair to poor) when in good conditiuon, where-as starting (auto) batteries test in the "good" range when in good condition.

I know there are differences in the plate thickness, etc but have never heard of a difference in specific gravity between deep cycle and starting batteries. Is this in fact true, or was the manager making shit up?

I am pretty much forced to use it now, as I can't really afford to buy a 2nd one...so hopefully it really is OK, otherwise I won't be driving my Mutant vehicle at night...

Bottom line, they refused to exchange (or refund money), and made me feel like an ass for even asking for one. So I recommend you get your batteries from a more reputable source...(certainly not from a store that rhymes with Yucks)

jbelson · Post by **jbelson** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:27 pm

double posted

jbelson · Post by **jbelson** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:27 pm

On this subjekt. I just got a handheld battery tester, but haven't looked @ the instructions yet, and was hoping the knowledgable peeps could clue me in a little.

I have a 12v deep cycle, something like 200amp hours.
When I touch the tester to the battery, what am I really looking for? Do i want to see how many volts are left or am I looking to keep the amps in a certain range? And what is the lowest the volts should be?
Also, can I overcharge the battery and put too many volts in?
I ask cause I got the honda eu2000 with batterycharger cables, but there is no charge indicator on it so I figure I'll have to keep checking with the handheld.

Elemental666 · Post by **Elemental666** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:38 pm

ok so then I haven't found any deep cycle batteries... So then I need to look at like RV and Golf Cart places? Where else is a good place to look?

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:36 pm

Elemental666 wrote:ok so then I haven't found any deep cycle batteries... So then I need to look at like RV and Golf Cart places? Where else is a good place to look?

~
The auto parts store up the block from me has them. Another block and the sports store has them. (GI Joes) I got mine at Battery Exchange. The two I have are for mobility scooters. The two I have in the RV came from Battery EXchange. There big mothers

Bob A · Post by **Bob A** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:53 pm

Elemental666 wrote:ok so then I haven't found any deep cycle batteries... So then I need to look at like RV and Golf Cart places? Where else is a good place to look?

If your not offended by them wallmart will have one. THey will have like 10 kinds of batteries and only one will be a true deep cycle. Same goes for costco and other places like that. usually jsut one is a true deep cycle 12 volt.

or goto a place like interstate batteries and buy 2 6 volt golf cart batteries.

Bob A

Bob A · Post by **Bob A** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:59 pm

jbelson wrote:On this subjekt. I just got a handheld battery tester, but haven't looked @ the instructions yet, and was hoping the knowledgable peeps could clue me in a little.

I have a 12v deep cycle, something like 200amp hours.
When I touch the tester to the battery, what am I really looking for? Do i want to see how many volts are left or am I looking to keep the amps in a certain range? And what is the lowest the volts should be?
Also, can I overcharge the battery and put too many volts in?
I ask cause I got the honda eu2000 with batterycharger cables, but there is no charge indicator on it so I figure I'll have to keep checking with the handheld.

Your looking to check volts. its not a perfect way to test state of charge but as the charge goes down the voltage will drop. As far as how low? my inverter shuts down at 9.8 volts can't really say if its safe for battery life to fo that low or not.

Oh yea you can over charge that's why a lot of people recomend the smart chargers they will shut down or go to what they call trickle charge. THe honda 2000 is great generator but charging a battery with it sucks. that 12 volt out on it only puts out like 8 - 10 amps. What you should do at the least is get a battery charger look for one that has a switch for deep cycle batteries. about 40 - $60 bucks. This will charge at any where from 40 - 70 amps jsut plug it into yourt Honda A/C port and you will use your honda much more efficently and get done a lot faster.

Bob A

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:20 pm

Bob A wrote:
Elemental666 wrote:ok so then I haven't found any deep cycle batteries... So then I need to look at like RV and Golf Cart places? Where else is a good place to look?
If your not offended by them wallmart will have one. THey will have like 10 kinds of batteries and only one will be a true deep cycle. Same goes for costco and other places like that. usually jsut one is a true deep cycle 12 volt.

or goto a place like interstate batteries and buy 2 6 volt golf cart batteries.

Bob A

I thought my local wal-mart would have them but they didn't. Maybe they do in some places.

I ordered mine from here: http://store.solar-electric.com/pvx-1285.html

$150 for a good 85 amp-hour battery + $25 or so for shipping.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:32 pm

Come on guys, I live in the most backward hick town in the nation. Deep cells are sold all over. The real good ones come in three colord tops. Red is $189.00 then blue and yellow.

Elemental666 · Post by **Elemental666** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:02 pm

so just to be clear, 2 6v 85 Amp Hour batteries in series will yield one 12v 85amp hour array right?

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:05 pm

Correct

Elemental666 · Post by **Elemental666** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:33 am

Ok!!! Got that out of my system!! or in my system depending on perspective...

Scored 2 130AH/12v Deep Cycle Marine/RV batteries of 150 total
400wt inverter and smart charger for another $100 total

Tested my loads on the last night and all devices hooked up and ran beautifully. I've got a small gennie for charging during the day as well! I fell so... empowered... lol, ok that was corny. Thanks for your help guys, we'll see how it works out in about 7 days. WOOT MOTHERFUCKIN WOOT!

adept · Post by **adept** » Wed May 24, 2006 12:59 pm

Sorry to bump this really old thread, but I need some advice from people who know what they're doing (or pretend to know!!! :) ). I'm getting married this year in BRC, and it's my first burningman. Complicating matters a bit further, my fiance is a heat casualty. They really do wander off to die when the heat exposure sets in, I've seen it :(

So I have some serious cooling equipment to power, (mobile mastercool mmb12 3500CFM) and need some deep cycle gear... I'm looking to buy 200-300Ah of 12v in either sealed lead acid, gel, or AGM.

My swamp cooler's max electrical load is 60A at 12v, after inverter inefficiency, and it will probably be pulling closer to 30A (half speed, this swamp cooler is 5x oversized for my tent). If I AM pulling 60A and have a 300Ah battery bank, I think I will have at least 2 hours of runtime without my generator running... Right? I am being conservative with these estimates because battery discharge Ah times are meant over a 20hour discharge, and they will die quicker when being used heavily.

Then I hit another issue... I don't want to run the generator all day, so I need to charge as quickly as possible. 50amp chargers are sorta pricey and big, from what I've seen. Any suggestions or good deals? Any experience with what type of battery will do best recharging quickly?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!!! :)

adept · Post by **adept** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:06 pm

[quote="adept"]Complicating matters a bit further, my fiance is a heat casualty. [/quote]One last comment... We're both desert experienced, or we wouldn't be planning on doing this at bman with her health condition. My last message sounds very dramatic, but I am passionate about doing everything I can to make our adventure go well.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:23 pm

Have you looked into the Honda eu2000i It's a great Generator..

At low load I get 13 hours on a 1.5 gal of gas.. $900-1000.00

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/Mode ... me=eu2000i

Look around on craigslist for a used one also.. You can always sell it after the burn also...

phil · Post by **phil** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:42 pm

This is a good thread to bump, and I think it pretty much provides the answers. Go back and read the stuff on golf cart batteries and follow the link to that page that tells how to determine how much power (i.e., Amp/hours) you need. Note how heavy this stuff is, too.

Welcome to Burning Man. I'm sure you'll both have a ball.

adept · Post by **adept** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:48 pm

I was trying to avoid buying a eu2000i for $$$ reasons... But that is making less sense as I understand the alternative better.

$100 good inverter
$100 large 50a charger
$60 battery cables
$20 power box/mounting supplies
$300 batteries

plus a recharge source... $300 68db 3500w gen. This method costs more than a eu2000i and takes up a lot of space. :/

Ahh well, I haven't put money into my deep cycle solution yet at least. Has anybody here invested in deep cycle, realized how ill fitted it was, and shelled out cash for the honda?

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Wed May 24, 2006 2:16 pm

Adept,

Someone over on Tribe RV posed a full solar and storage setup for about $900. But the site is down right now.. Later today I'll snag the post and post it here..... My 2cent tho, with someones health at risk I go with the most dependable.. It's been known to be cloudy for a few days at a time..

The back-up to that tho is find a camp with power and explain whats going on. We have helped out the last 8 years from time to time. The larger Camps have a Power Grid with massive gennies running 24/7.. You begging a few watts won't hurt..

adept · Post by **adept** » Wed May 24, 2006 2:42 pm

I wish my power load was smaller, or else solar would be a great option... ($600 worth/130watt of solar panels would have to charge batteries 3 or 4 hours to run my cooler for 1hr!) I will find out how much 12v wattage it would save me to switch my swamp cooler to a DC fan, that might fit much better. Since this is a cooling system mainly, I would be okay with the panels to be dead when there is no sun.

We may be in a powered theme camp, but I do want to stay independent of them if possible. Maybe if somebody I knew well was the guy renting and towing the diesel generator, but I don't know that many people :)

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:00 pm

adept wrote: $100 good inverter
$100 large 50a charger
$60 battery cables
$20 power box/mounting supplies
$300 batteries

Looks like that solar lightstring I bought from Alsto's was indeed a good investment...

Okay, I just bought a horse trailer with a 110-volt system installed. It's come with two deep cycle batteries to power the system and an inverter. The seller told me he's taken the trailer into the woods and the battery array powers the lights and water pump in the tack room for a week plus.

What I'd like to do is add another deep cycle to the array and connect a solar panel to charge them with. How does one go about this? Can I get a solar panel with a cigarette-lighter plug and hook it up to the inverter, like the Coleman dashtop panel?

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:53 pm

adept wrote:I was trying to avoid buying a eu2000i for $$$ reasons... But that is making less sense as I understand the alternative better.

$100 good inverter
$100 large 50a charger
$60 battery cables
$20 power box/mounting supplies
$300 batteries

plus a recharge source... $300 68db 3500w gen. This method costs more than a eu2000i and takes up a lot of space. :/

Ahh well, I haven't put money into my deep cycle solution yet at least. Has anybody here invested in deep cycle, realized how ill fitted it was, and shelled out cash for the honda?

YES! I bought a Honda. Liked it so much I bought another. And then a third. They are quiet, light (weigh no more than a big deep-cycle battery) and worth the $900-$1000 you'll spend.
I have both systems on my "land yacht" mutant vehicle, a deep-cycle and inverter, and a Honda. If I had to give one up, it'd definitely be the deep-cycle, just because battery technology isn't good enough yet to store enough energy. A few gallons of gas will make a hell of a lot of electricity. And I use the Honda and a battery charger to recharge the freakin' deep-cycle anyway.

Yes, the Hondas are "quiet" and the battery is "silent". But for my money, the Honda is what really works.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Wed May 24, 2006 8:26 pm

Adept, Heres that post;
http://burningrv.tribe.net/thread/65e18 ... 0603a2f30b

#
reply to this post
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~* KC
~* KC
offline 110
Re: Gennys
Wed, April 5, 2006 - 9:36 PM
in response to: Re: Gennys
Paynie!!! Dude I can hook you up for $800 with 230kw of panels, 2 golf cart batteries and a shutoff controller. Hooking it all up,.... well I'm sure you can find someone.

I LOVE BEING ON SOLAR. I only turn on my genny for the micro and air con.... so like basically I haven't used it since BM.
reply to this post

adept · Post by **adept** » Thu May 25, 2006 9:28 am

[quote="diane o'thirst"]

Okay, I just bought a horse trailer with a 110-volt system installed. It's come with two deep cycle batteries to power the system and an inverter. The seller told me he's taken the trailer into the woods and the battery array powers the lights and water pump in the tack room for a week plus.

What I'd like to do is add another deep cycle to the array and connect a solar panel to charge them with. How does one go about this? Can I get a solar panel with a cigarette-lighter plug and hook it up to the inverter, like the Coleman dashtop panel?[/quote]
Make sure your panel has a charging diode, that will stop the panel from overcharging your batteries and draining them at night. There are many options for quick disconnect from the batteries, but if its a big panel you need to make sure that the wires in your quick disconnect cables are large enough. When I've wired my system up, I'll probably post a few pictures, which should include examples on how to easily connect items.

I picked up 3 Everstart MAXX-65N batteries from walmart this morning, these are around 125Ah batteries, wet cell. They'll require more maintenance than a sealed battery or a dry cell, but I now have a charger and 375Ah of power for under $300. I can't wait to test the cooling system with my reserve power system!

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Thu May 25, 2006 2:50 pm

[quote="adeptMake sure your panel has a charging diode, that will stop the panel from overcharging your batteries and draining them at night. [/quote]

Actually, the blocking diode only stops the panel from draining the battery at night. It will NOT keep the panel from overcharging your batteries. You need a charge regulator for that.

adept · Post by **adept** » Fri May 26, 2006 7:47 am

[quote="capjbadger"]

Actually, the blocking diode only stops the panel from draining the battery at night. It will NOT keep the panel from overcharging your batteries. You need a charge regulator for that.[/quote]

Good to know!!! I think many of the solar charge regulators I was looking at awhile ago included the diode in case the panel didn't have one, which probably confused me. :)

EB · Post by EB » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:01 pm

So what happens if you completely discharge your deep cycle batteries?
I bought a couple of 105Ah bats from Target last year, took them to the '05 burn and everything was peachy.

I read up on how to store them -- got a smart charger, kept them in the garage, etc -- but I neglected to check on them in the last five months so today when I hooked them up to my inverter and the "Fault" alarm started blaring. It said the output was a paltry 9.3 volts (anything under 10.5 is considered discharged.) With the heat of the San Fernando Valley this summer and I'm pretty sure I've dehydrated the poor bastards.

Any ideas what to do next? Do I top them off with distilled water and recharge them? Is this dangerous? I can't seem to find the answer on the web (haven't called manufacturer yet.)

Let me be a cautionary tale to you newbie battery buyers! Batteries are like houseplants, they need proper watering and kept in temperate climes...

Bob A · Post by **Bob A** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:09 pm

EB wrote:So what happens if you completely discharge your deep cycle batteries?
I bought a couple of 105Ah bats from Target last year, took them to the '05 burn and everything was peachy.

I read up on how to store them -- got a smart charger, kept them in the garage, etc -- but I neglected to check on them in the last five months so today when I hooked them up to my inverter and the "Fault" alarm started blaring. It said the output was a paltry 9.3 volts (anything under 10.5 is considered discharged.) With the heat of the San Fernando Valley this summer and I'm pretty sure I've dehydrated the poor bastards.

Any ideas what to do next? Do I top them off with distilled water and recharge them? Is this dangerous? I can't seem to find the answer on the web (haven't called manufacturer yet.)

Let me be a cautionary tale to you newbie battery buyers! Batteries are like houseplants, they need proper watering and kept in temperate climes...

well what ever damage is done is done. All you can do is try to salvage. IF the cells went totally dry you might be in big trouble. If they are just low you can try adding distilled water and recharging it. IT won't be as strong as it was but it may still be good enough to be useful.

IF the cells are dry you are beyound me. THere might be a battery acid replacement mixture that you could pour in, that would better than filling with just the water, really don't know. TRy doing a few google seaches.

Worse case try the water hope for the best.

Bob A

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:38 am

Check this page:
http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm
which gives information on how to test your batteries to see if they'll still hold a charge.

For those not in to following links, the page says to add only distilled water and never anything else to a battery (and he specifcally says not to add acid).

It's a good page on battery care generally, so you can follow these tips to keep your battery in shape over the year.

EB · Post by EB » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:44 am

Thanks Bob A. and Phil. I took out my 1/2 gallon of distilled water from out from under the sink and went to work re-filling the cells. I only got through half the cells of one battery before I was out of water!

Live and learn, I guess. (This is why I stopped taking hang gliding lessons...)

Off to get more distilled water and maybe some distilled spirits,

EB

Deep cycle batteries

Deep-cycle mistake

Re: Deep-cycle mistake