BLM citations

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:00 am

I gotta say a case can easily be made that all three tests have been met wrt distribution. Perhaps for posession as well as it was the agent who offered a quid pro quo scenario. Certainly enough for charges to be dismissed. I am unaware of the quantities involved but the person who was potentially illegally searched would not take the citation and ended up going to reno that day to fight the charge.

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:08 am

oops, sorry about that, Rob.

<drift>
BTW, it was great meeting you out there and sharing impressions of the event. Still have a lot to think about, but your analogy of getting beaten with a stick still makes me both laugh and seriously think about things at the same time. Thank you for being there.
</drift>

obTopic: Boo hoo hoo. Welcome to reality.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:16 pm

The leaf burners were extra dumbfcks this year. Almost every where I went in BRC i was getting nose hits. They most think blm rangers don't fire up off duty.

And light, you are a dumbfck.

smallblueboy · Post by **smallblueboy** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:43 pm

come on people. Whats the problem? why do you need to flame and insult here on e-playa. Some think it's dumb to use drugs at BM, others love it. Can we get over it?

I'm still looking for stories of undercovers, besides the art car. cmon, aint there any others out there?

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:09 pm

_tears_ wrote:I saw many more police this year than last. I witnessed 4 arrests and two searches. Last year I saw none. In my opinion and the opinion of my campmates as well ( well most of them ) there were many more police this year than last.

I also heard of a theme camp having to put part of there camp in the back off of the main road (although this could be a rumor, i didnt venture over that way much ).

Not just a rumor. The Orgasmatron had to be moved. Also, my adoptive camp was warned by friends (and watched by LEO) about the spankings/floggings that occurred in their camp. They had to tame down, or get busted by LEO for lewd public acts...

sheesh.

kornilov · Post by **kornilov** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:45 pm

smallblueboy wrote: I'm still looking for stories of undercovers, besides the art car. cmon, aint there any others out there?

This ain't no lie. 2 BLM rangers used the cover of one of the cars in my camp to spy on our neighbors. It was real ugly. We took pictures. Moral of the story: BLM rangers do not like people taking pictures of them when they're spying.

Later, some of our neighbors were issued tickets, but as far as I can tell no one was arrested. Sorry neighbors. We tried to warn you, but we couldn't get to you in time!

busted flat · Post by **busted flat** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:42 pm

Thanks to all who are sharing their experiences with law enforcement. I started this thread to help people avoid the problems we had this year. As for those who insult or lecture that people who get busted are by definition stupid and deserve whatever the police dish out, you've missed the point. Condescension and name-calling just alienate people from the eplaya, and show a lack of compassion that is particularly disappointing in the context of Burning Man.

Interactions with the police can be serious and terrifying -- and police who conduct bullying illegal searches and threaten violence against cooperating suspects, as they did with us, are not "just doing their job." But by sharing this information within the community, maybe we can avoid some of these incidents in the future.

busted flat · Post by **busted flat** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:46 pm

P.S. If anyone sees final BLM arrest/citation statistics for this year, please post the info and a link. Thanks.

Last Real Burner · Post by **Last Real Burner** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:08 pm

When did burningman turn into a rainbow gathering? we may be artsy but we're not fartzy. just because people tell you what's really on there minds you want to run and hide or not come to the eplaya? Don't be a silly little child, thicken you're skin son let meshow you how to hold a bat properly to achieve the ultimate distance.

"Fuck Yer Day!"

lastly,
the rebbi

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:09 pm

Busted Flat, Your a damn fool to try and rationalize breaking the law. Any time you break the law you may be caught. If you were using at the time your perception would have been way off. So your side of the story seems a little stretched. The BLM Rangers didn't need to use any coverts actions on the playa. As I said before: I got a nose hit any where I went on the playa.

As for your helping others break the law. That makes you really look stupid. If you would have followed the e playa list over the last year you would know not to fire up outside your domain. Guess you just wanted to whine and expect other to tell you"poor baby"

Last Real Burner · Post by **Last Real Burner** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:13 pm

Now unjohn, just because you're both right doesn't mean you mus"nt play nice.

"Now take that stick out of you're ass before you poke someone's eye out!"

maybely,
the rebbi

madmatt · Post by **madmatt** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:15 pm

So many people asked me if I knew where to score drugs this year, I couldn't believe it. They weren't cops either, I saw them around the rest of the week. Every time someone hit me up, I just said no, then told them there were lots of cops out and they would get busted quick like by doing that. Nobody in our camp had the least problem, all were severely lectured beforehand.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:21 pm

Last Real Burner wrote:Now unjohn, just because you're both right doesn't mean you mus"nt play nice.

"Now take that stick out of you're ass before you poke someone's eye out!"

maybely,
the rebbi

/\
butt stick feels good.

I become very upset if i can't ruin some ones day.

kinetic · Post by **kinetic** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:05 pm

So on Friday night I was out taking photos and just wandering. I get back to my little camp at like 12 and there are two cop Jeeps and two four wheelers at the camp next to me (I know them as well) Anyway, two of the guys in the camp get taken out that night on the 4-wheelers. I finally find one of the guys the next day and it turns out that (all according to him) he was out at a small drum circle and met some people in fur and lights and all that. So they talk and eventually they ask if they have any mushrooms. The guy I know says yes and the fur people suggest trading for some acid. They show them the stuff and it's apparently all good. So they cruise the playa for over an hour just hanging out and then head back to the camp (near me) to make the trade. Once they reach the camp, he gets out the mushrooms and the "acid" comes out, they make the trade and then bam, cops everywhere. All undercover guys. The two guys get arrested, get the $250 fine and have to go to court. I forget what the charge was. They let them go later that night after booking them out by the airport.

Sucked for both of them, but I guess (unfortunately) this is the sort of thing that BM has come to.

GefilteFunk · Post by **GefilteFunk** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:07 am

This was my experience this year-
I was SLEEPING in my tent, which was set in about 30 yards from Ego, the door to the tent facing inwards to the camp (unfortunately, only the screen was zipped up, so one could see into the tent). Two BLM officers appeared at the opening to the tent and woke me up. They told me they saw what they thought was a bong (turned out to be a shot glass) in the camp, so they walked in. Next they saw some nitrous chargers nearby my tent, so they looked into mine and saw some more. In my slow and stupid just-woke-up state, I agreed to a search, as they told me they already had probable cause.
I now have a citation.
Let's be clear: I'm not looking for sympathy from any of those on this list who keep crowing things like, "You do illegal drugs, expect to pay the consequences". I'm a big boy, and I know this.
I am, however, looking to share my experience with other Burners who have been stung by what I feel was BLM officers who overstepped privacy rights.
Furethermore, is anyone interested in gathering up all of these stories with the aid of sworn testimony possibly? It may provide a substantial defense to those of us in these shady cases...

GFunk

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:37 am

GefilteFunk wrote:This was my experience this year-
I was SLEEPING in my tent, which was set in about 30 yards from Ego, the door to the tent facing inwards to the camp (unfortunately, only the screen was zipped up, so one could see into the tent). Two BLM officers appeared at the opening to the tent and woke me up. They told me they saw what they thought was a bong (turned out to be a shot glass) in the camp, so they walked in. Next they saw some nitrous chargers nearby my tent, so they looked into mine and saw some more. In my slow and stupid just-woke-up state, I agreed to a search, as they told me they already had probable cause.
I now have a citation.
Let's be clear: I'm not looking for sympathy from any of those on this list who keep crowing things like, "You do illegal drugs, expect to pay the consequences". I'm a big boy, and I know this.
I am, however, looking to share my experience with other Burners who have been stung by what I feel was BLM officers who overstepped privacy rights.
Furethermore, is anyone interested in gathering up all of these stories with the aid of sworn testimony possibly? It may provide a substantial defense to those of us in these shady cases...

GFunk

~
To bad, chunp, you agreed. That's that. Pay up and whine no more.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:59 pm

unjohn, if you are not a cop, you should be, so you can at least get paid for this bile you keep spewing. You add nothing to the thread. go away if none of this is interesting to you. for some twisted reason, you find it entertaining to haze the newly busted. did you do some time and now you hate the little twits that just get away with a 250 pop?

These folks are not whining, they are trying to get information, and some may be deciding if they are going to contest citations. This is their thread.

I tried to pick up some night vision on my way out to the burn this year but the store I went to was sold out. Here's a trick for night vision suvs. Shine a light at the suv directly. it whites out the night vision.

I want to start a distributed neighborhood copwatch program. print out a list of protocols and rights and hand them out. Put up signs that say this area patrolled by neighborhood copwatch... perform some counter surveillance.

I stated in another thread that cops were coming through our camp repeatedly till I confronted them. they were rude and defensive. they are plenty friendly when they are making people cower but they are rude when taking a complaint or being surveilled themselves.

I would not trust the citation statistics, they may be as underreported as the total number of people at BM.

Also: All BLM citations go to a fund that does charitable things and most of this years citations for all BLM infractions will probably go to Katrina relief.

What they get for busting peeps is a little gold star and a personal statistic and some experience.

know your rights and get aggressive in a friendly way, get vigilant.

Black Rock City Neighborhood CopWatch

Trishya333 · Post by **Trishya333** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:19 pm

Personally I heard about more citations then ever before, and reading various experiences here, it does seem like more then what the Reno Gazette had to say. Simply enough, I'm glad it didn't happen to me.
here is the pertinent info from the article:

The bureau’s spokeswoman, Jo Simpson, said the event was running smoothly, with fewer problems than previous years. As of late Saturday, law enforcement agencies reported nine arrests — up from six last year — but only 11 citations issued, a dramatic decrease from last year’s 167. All the incidents were drug-related.

Maybe their numbers weren't tallied propery, or a few rangers hadn't reported at that time. looking at last years numbers makes more sence for what people are writing about here.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:07 pm

ubu wrote:unjohn, if you are not a cop, you should be, so you can at least get paid for this bile you keep spewing. You add nothing to the thread. go away if none of this is interesting to you. for some twisted reason, you find it entertaining to haze the newly busted. did you do some time and now you hate the little twits that just get away with a 250 pop?

These folks are not whining, they are trying to get information, and some may be deciding if they are going to contest citations. This is their thread.

I tried to pick up some night vision on my way out to the burn this year but the store I went to was sold out. Here's a trick for night vision suvs. Shine a light at the suv directly. it whites out the night vision.

I want to start a distributed neighborhood copwatch program. print out a list of protocols and rights and hand them out. Put up signs that say this area patrolled by neighborhood copwatch... perform some counter surveillance.

I stated in another thread that cops were coming through our camp repeatedly till I confronted them. they were rude and defensive. they are plenty friendly when they are making people cower but they are rude when taking a complaint or being surveilled themselves.

I would not trust the citation statistics, they may be as underreported as the total number of people at BM.

Also: All BLM citations go to a fund that does charitable things and most of this years citations for all BLM infractions will probably go to Katrina relief.

What they get for busting peeps is a little gold star and a personal statistic and some experience.

know your rights and get aggressive in a friendly way, get vigilant.

Black Rock City Neighborhood CopWatch

~
Smelly Sock, Go ahead and get aggressive with the man. Don't try to drag others in your shit/watch. Interferring is a much bigger rap So just bust your ass. Your whining now. You want to brake the law. You want others to run defence while you go long. Even my cheap night vision can over come your nasty little trip. I'll love to hear you whine sucker.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:05 pm

ok unjon, sure thing bro. you aint no cop, and you aint no lawyer. you can't even spell or think straight. you don't even know your rights as a member of civil society, and you don't even have a modicum of manners. I pity you.
spew on, my friend, while the rest of us pity your destiny. so how much time did you do in the clinker anway?

Counter surveillance and vigilance are perfectly within your rights.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:19 pm

you guys should probably take a breather.

this topic is going to return, several times. you can always use the breather for research so you can come back to it with something good and tangible.

time can be a good thing, lets me prepare for a discussion that i know is going to get heated on both sides.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:35 pm

thanks for the advice, specter.

I have no bile or animus, so I need no breather. as for unjon: he seems to have caught a nasty case of stockholm syndrome combined with a sadistic glee at the unfortunate enforcement of irrational drug laws. He seems to enjoy the pain of those who were unlucky, uneducated, or foolish enought to get caught doing what in Oregon or Califorinia would not even merit a reaction from LE.

I would like to help the citizens of Black Rock City educate themselves and I would also like to educate the LEO's about decorum and decency on the playa; to make a show of presence, to show them that they are being watched and their behavior noted. I did that this year, and pace unjon, I dissuaded the LEOs from policing my quadrant of the city. They went wherever it was less work to police. They are, as are most, likely to follow the path of least resistance, and they abhor complaints on their records as much as they esteem little successful citation gold stars. Just ask my old friend brlover.

golgotha-a-go-go · Post by **golgotha-a-go-go** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:00 pm

This was my 8th Burn. I have never seen a bust near my camp in my previous 7 years.

This year, two adjacent camps had busts. One was a little disturbing:

Sherrif's truck pulls in with a female perp in cuffs, walk her to her camp and spend about a half hour there. Meantime, two other characters are snooping around in plainclothes, one female is outfitted with camera gear taking photos of all surounding camps and its residents, us included. Turns out after a neighbor asks the female photographer what she is doing, the female responds that they are FBI agents accompanying the Sherrifs on their missions. What the fuck for, I wonder: cataloging faces for their "potential subversives" file? I deeply resented being photographed even at a distance by these people. What is the FBI doing at BRC?

Any comments or similar experiences?

And please, stay on the topic. Let's keep our opinions on drug use for other topics.

thotkrime · Post by **thotkrime** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:17 pm

a friend of mine had a similar experience. he was sitting in a chill dome smoking week when some cops with flashlights walked in, spotted him, picked him up by the collar and took him outside. the two agents (not sure if they were cops or sheriffs or what) then told him it was a $500 ticket, then discussed among themselves: "man, i dont really want to give him a ticket. do you want to give him a ticket?" "no i dont want to give him a ticket. your friends dont have any more weed do they? no? good" end of story. sounds like he got lucky

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:26 pm

BRC is on Fed. ground. It is covered each year by ATF, FBI, BLM, Park ranges, Na. state, county and trible. Most likly Home Land too. Joel, did I miss any? There are so many. They bust for the smallest thing. Think they have to show something for the free ride to BM. If you read a few of these threads. I'm saying your a damn fool to bring, use, gift, buy, sell or share drugs with that many cops in the house. If you do don't whine.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:30 pm

I could see DEA being interested in looking for dealers, but not the FBI for "subversives". In fact BRC is the ultimate consumer distraction of atomized individuality after all; no Che Guevaras out on the playa. In Fact we have a former supreme court justice of nevada as one of our citizens and even folks from Rand who love BRC.

My issue, and if upjon were not so presumptuous he might have asked, is with issues of decency, modesty, and privacy on the playa. I do not in any way condone or encourage the breaking of any law.

I do not want non-participants, and working LEOs are by definition not participants, invading my privacy while I am on the playa, and the female members of our camp felt sexually assaulted by the predatory gaze of the BLM.

I was at that point, in fact, dealing with a complaint of my own. I confronted them. I found them downright creepy and even rude. I should have gotten their full names. They were not so cooperative as to give anything more than a first name.

They were presumptuous enough to think that by definition everyone at BM lacked modesty. Well, I would like to speak up for that modesty and for privacy. Every camp is a home.

I have taken and plan on taking further action to vigilantly defend my and my fellow participant's right to privacy, for whatever reason, within the existing Federal legal structure and within codes of decency and civility, as long as BRC comes into being on Federal land.

Should we move to State land, I would apply the same set of protocols geared to the existing laws of that State. The BLM will surely whine if and when we move on. It is the favorite part of their year.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:36 pm

unjonharley wrote:If you do don't whine.

They can, do, and will continue to have the freedom to whine as much as they want to. You, me, or they may not agree - but that doesn't mean telling someone not to post thier opinions or feedback is ever going to come across well.

just sayin

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:43 pm

Bush flashed all your rights a long time ago. Ge with the times. Any one of the fed. cops can pick your young ass up and throw you in the can. With no phone call or lawyer.

Now what is with this "we" shit? You got a mouse in your pocket?

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:27 pm

Unjohn Harley's right in that all of us lost our rights a long time ago. And Ubu's right that there aren't and Guevarra's out on the Playa. While they're on the Playa. Everybody needs a vacation, even meta-revolutionaries.

And now, a knock at my door.

passport · Post by **passport** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:31 pm

Government exists to promote the public's interests. And I cannot think of a less important use of government resources then arresting drug users at burning man. What does it accomplish? What plausible public interest is served?

It doesn't deter -- stop people from using drugs. It doesn't stop any supply lines into the country. It doesn't teach any lessons. It is just a total zero - waste of resources, and unhappiness for the people arrested.

The arguments on this board -- namely, that laws should always be enforced -- are just missing the point. The statutes are full of unenforced laws. Deciding to enforce a law is always a policy decision. And again, what plausible public interest is served by arresting drug users at burning man?

The arrests are wrong, plain and simple. They accomplish nothing.

I am a lawyer, and I believe that as Burning Man participants we should start a "legal camp." We should file a class-action lawsuit that makes it expensive for the BLM to decide to violate various 4th Amendment rights in Black Rock City. Due to legal antipathy, right now the BLM is getting away with what sound like flagarent violations of statutory and constitutional rights.

BLM citations

enough with the insults

Re: enough with the insults

..............La La, La la la la............

........He Shoots, He Scores, Oooo, Foul on the Play......

Re: ........He Shoots, He Scores, Oooo, Foul on the Play....

from the Reno gazette

Why arrest drug users at Burning Man?