A Rotten, Stinking Burning Man Experience

Orghua · Post by **Orghua** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:15 pm

A rotten thing happened to us on the way out of BRC at about 6:30 PM on Sunday.

Just down the road from BRC, a large container of all our personal care items came loose from our trailer and flew back, scattering all over the road. We pulled over and jumped out and ran back to gather up our things. A long line of Black Rock citizens were fast approaching, and I thought, ï¿½cool, they will stop and help us pick up our thingsï¿½. Not even close. The first person slowed down a little, looked at me from behind his closed window, and then continued on, running over a can of hairspray and an $80.00 bottle of cologne, smashing them both. Next came an RV, bearing down on me at about 50 mph (notice that is wasn't an art car?). I was in the middle of the road, desperately trying to save the most important things first and waving for them to stop. The woman behind the wheel hammered on her horn and yelled out the window for me to get out of the road, and sped past me shaking her fist. After her came about 15 or twenty more vehicles in quick succession, smashing most of what remained into the pavement. Vitamins, creams, prescription medicines, hairbrushes, etc. We scrambled between the cars full of BRC citizens (I refuse to call them Burners at this point), desperately trying to save our stuff, and ended up with a container full of smashed belongings. We did our best to save the desert from all the debris scattered over the highway by picking up the bits and pieces while more and more cars sped past, rubbernecking at us, the unfortunate faceless souls. Yes folks, not a single vehicle stopped to ask us if we needed help.

This situation sucked so badly, and left us both feeling hollow inside after a wonderful week. My sweetheart said, well baby, I guess The Burn is over. She was absolutely right. I told the story to a Burner friend the next day and he said, ï¿½well, I have a theory ï¿½ on Sunday, you have all the spectators rushing home as soon as they can after the man falls. Maybe if it happened on Monday, or Tuesday or Wednesday, you would have had some real Burners stop by to help you outï¿½. This is a small but savoury consolation to meditate on.

If you are reading this and you were there, Shame on you. The odds are small, maybe 50-70 cars saw us in total, 3 people each on average, makes about 150-200 people out of 40,000, but if you are reading this and you saw it and didnï¿½t stop, shame on you and the rest of you.

Itï¿½s a nice idea to think that BRC is a community of Burners and that we share common goals of mutual support and survival. The unfortunate fact is, BM has itï¿½s large share of ungrateful, self-interested cretins just as does mainstream society. Attendance does not make you a Burner. Existing at all levels of reality in the true spirit of Burning Man makes you a Burner. Not for 6 days per year, but for 365 ï¿½ 24/7.

Peace to each and everyone of you who can say, from a place deep down inside that you would have stopped to help us that night on the highway. You are my peers, you are family, and you are the reason I return again and again, and will continue doing so for as long as I am able.

Peace Out,

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:21 pm

Do you have ANY idea how dangerous it would be for people to try to stop much less how dangerous it would be to have a backup on the highway with people trying to get around the backup YOU caused? Would you be happier if people stopped and then someone died while trying to go around the backup? You caused your own problem; don't make things worse for others trying to fix it.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:28 pm

I assume you're talking about the "much too narrow to stop on without putting people in danger" road between BRC and I-80.

I headed up that road much later on Sunday so I probably didn't see you, but I did see a big "thing" on the left side of the road followed by someone stopped a quarter mile ahead on the right side. I did not stop to "help" this person recover his belongings. To stop on that road would have endangered the other drivers and certainly endangered myself if I tried to get out and run around.

Be glad your cologne hit the road and not the windshield of someone following behind you. Next time ask for help when tying down your load.

Bungiti · Post by **Bungiti** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:07 pm

I still begs the question: why not stop and be patient? Yes, Joefrank may have been irresponsible if he secured his load improperly (but note there is no evidence that is what happened), but that does not mean people can't be compassionate and help out. If a couple people got out and helped the debris could have probably been cleared quickly and people could have gone on there way.

It just seems to me that people want to get the fuck out of dodge ASAP and the hell with everyone else.

As for danger- it is only dangerous if people say tough shit and zoom by, if people had stopped there would not be any danger. Delays yes, but no danger.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:13 pm

Bungiti wrote:I still begs the question: why not stop and be patient? Yes, Joefrank may have been irresponsible if he secured his load improperly (but note there is no evidence that is what happened)

If his stuff was properly secured, it wouldn't have fallen off. Clue.

but that does not mean people can't be compassionate and help out. If a couple people got out and helped the debris could have probably been cleared quickly and people could have gone on there way.

It just seems to me that people want to get the fuck out of dodge ASAP and the hell with everyone else.

As for danger- it is only dangerous if people say tough shit and zoom by, if people had stopped there would not be any danger. Delays yes, but no danger.

Not everyone who goes to Burning Man is the compassionate, caring person we wish they would be. That's why people don't stop even if they want to -- the risk of a pile-up or someone getting hit on the side of the road is not worth someone being able to clean-up their own mess sooner.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:14 pm

I recall reading somewhere that the NHP highly discourages people from pulling off 447 due to soft shoulders and the tendency for vehicles to get stuck fast. So to stop means stopping in the traffic lane. And unless your vehicle is physically broken down, stopping in a traffic lane is one of the most asinine, dangerous, and downright stupid things a motorist can ever do especially on a hilly and narrow route like Nevada 447.

I hate to be critical but it comes down to securing your load so you don't put people at risk and yourself like that. So you lost some personal care items? So what. Running out there in the middle of traffic like that could have us reading a RGJ article about a burner being taken home in a body bag. Count yourself lucky, learn from the experience and move on.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:15 pm

That absolutely posively sucks.

What I noticed was that some of the same smiling, happy, and hugging people on Saturday before the burn all of the sudden became frigging urbanite hemmorhoids who could give a rat's s**t about anyone other than themselves on Sunday - Not all, but those who did know who you are.

I'm not a rainbow-ite by any stretch, but I'm also a human being with a conscience, and 15 minutes out of my 6 hour trip home to help someone out who just had their trip home turn to shit doesn't seem like a big deal - to me. Isn't that wierd? Helping instead of condemning. I must be from some other frigging planet, huh? Obviously not this one...

Had we left earlier (we blew out 2 days behind you) we wuld have stopped on the side of the road (yes, Virginia, there ARE shoulders on 447, and they will hold your car or RV up - it's Not winter, folks) ) and helped - if nothing else, get your stuff on the shoulder to pick up and moop what broke. I know everyone is in a haul ass hurry to get the flock out of BRC, but whaddafuk... what if it was YOUR shit spread out all over the road because a knot came undone or a bungee broke or whatever.

And to those who are so quick to condemn - be glad that that bottle of cologne you couldn't bother to stop and help pick up didn't break under your tire, putting you out of commission for YOUR ride home.

Sorry, but man's inhumanity towards each other just pisses me off.

And BTW - the tailgate on our trailer broke during this year's trip. NO amount of tying would have stopped that from happening. Ergo my sympathy.

BB

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:20 pm

what if it was YOUR shit spread out all over the road because a knot came undone or a bungee broke or whatever

I would feel stupid as hell and would pray no one else would put others at risk by stopping and that no one would die because I didn't properly secure my stuff.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:25 pm

OK... but then that same person would have gotten shit for leaving their moop all over the side of 447.

When our trailer broke, 2 absolute strangers (neither of which were burners) stopped to help out. We were out of there in 15-20 minutes. Otherwise we would have been there for hours. Ald would have left a ton of crap in our wake.

Again, this is my own opinion, right or wrong... but I still would have stopped,, off the road, and helped out. Just my feelings.

BB

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:30 pm

holyfuckingshit.

mistakes happen people, were just a bunch of imperfect humans. if you are perfect then fine, flame away.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:39 pm

spectabillis wrote:holyfuckingshit.

mistakes happen people, were just a bunch of imperfect humans. if you are perfect then fine, flame away.

No one is flaming anyone. The guy doesn't properly secure his stuff which is just retarded and then he cries about people not stopping. I'm trying to explain to him why, even though people wanted to help, they didn't. In other words, I don't think should be bitching.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:00 pm

I think we have a different opinion of what constitutes flaming, because terms like retarded and stupid are usually included in mine.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:01 pm

It's not a matter of time or willingness to help, it's a matter of safety. There are shoulders along 447 but it's still an unsafe place to pull over in case of emergency....and depending on what fell off, I would quickly make the call if I should risk pulling over or if I should keep going. I am no stranger to murphy's law fuckups and I've had my NRS straps give way on 447. That being said I had enough extra straps to offset the loss so I can keep going. If the item that fell could pose a risk to another vehicle, say a large cooler or art car piece, that's different...but even then I would still try to do anything possible to minimize making a bad situation worse. And I carry flares and other gear to try and minimize the potential risk where many don't.

I shouldn't have been so harsh with the reply but I'm thinking of a state trooper here in Missouri who was parked in a traffic lane, working a traffic accident investigation and he got killed. And he was a traffic pro....so my comments about stopping in the traffic lanes stands. It's all a judgement call....and if you can install one more bungee, one more rope, I take the time and do it. This year that strategy saved my trailer contents when I broke the back door on Jungo Road. I had it secured with different methods and the last set of latches held and kept me going. If it had failed and I lost the door and contents I'd have pulled over when I had a safe place to do so...but not before, regardless of what I lost.

BBS, SB, your replies were noted...my open mouth, big foot problem is back again.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:12 pm

at least slow down when you see someone on the road so that those behind you will be that much slower and the folks will not get killed!

and be respectful on eplay please. slow down a little.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:26 pm

On Monday morning all there was to see along that road was garbage. Big black bags busted as they went flyng off into the dicth. At first I though I would like to help pick this shit up. To dangerous to stop. You can bet the tickets will cost more next year.
~~
I pulled out and drove slowly until I got to the Gerlach transfer station. Go out and tuged all the tie downs. One was lose. The load had settled. Now how hard wa that?

Orghua · Post by **Orghua** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:39 pm

Well, it's always interesting to read what is said in reply. Above all, it is always a good thing to refrain from making assumptions, but there are always people who love to jump into forums head first and throw on a little fire. Allow me to provide some clarifications.

On the subject of tying down properly; damn, one does their best, but occasionally even the most diligent of us miss something, and unfortunately sometimes it is only the 55 mph wind that reveals our mistakes. Thank God DallasPlaya and Dork weren't on a jury that tried us, otherwise we might just have been lynched on the spot. You have confirmed that you are of the ilk of which I am speaking.

I work in heavy civil construction and am a certified flagger, so I have a great number of years in traffic safety under my belt. The points you raise are valid, but not objective. Why you would be so condemning and passionately negative on the subject without first seeking more of the facts leaves me shaking my head. There are indeed ways of safely approaching such situations. You must keep in mind that it was still daylight and the road at the location in question was dead straight and flat (an almost infinite line of sight), and with fairly large, well compacted shoulders. The vehicles in question had a long approach (in both time and space) to the incident scene with clear visibility. Your points would have held merit had the road been curved vertically or horizontally, had it been dark, inclement weather, or otherwise unsafe in any manner. The safe response in this situation would have been for the approaching vehicles to put on hazard flashers, and slow gradually to a stop within a safe distance, as should happen in any roadway emergency.

No matter what the reaction, any situation like this involves a certain amount of danger, but Bungiti hit the nail right on the head with this:

ï¿½As for danger- it is only dangerous if people say tough shit and zoom by, if people had stopped there would not be any danger. Delays yes, but no danger.ï¿½

True, certainly little to no danger, and certainly less than that in which that occurred. To stop with care would have delayed some people maybe about 2-5 minutes, and the resultant situation would have been far safer. It is amazing what groups of compassionate, aware individuals can achieve if they are so motivated. The Burning Man project demonstrates this principle time and time again, just not in this case unfortunately.

DallasPlaya and Dork, you have beautifully captured the very attitude of the people that drove past us that day. You assume first, decline to become aware of things that do not effect your judgmental world, and look after your own. Bungiti and Bay Bridge Sue ï¿½ you are my people. You are the Burners.

Everyone has the opportunity to ask questions, seek more info and then provide constructive commentary, and I certainly always want to listen and learn. Everyone has the opportunity to be a teacher; a compassionate human who contributes to the human collective in a positive way, but rather you, DallasPlaya and Dork, chose to play judge behind the safety of your computer. It is the approach you take that plagues the world we live in. A general lack of awareness and compassion. Regardless, thank you for your comments no matter how rash and judgmental because they serve to teach us in one capacity or another.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:40 pm

spectabillis wrote:I think we have a different opinion of what constitutes flaming, because terms like retarded and stupid are usually included in mine.

Someone asked me how *I* would feel. I would feel retarded if my shit fell off my vehicle and I certainly wouldn't be crying about people not helping me for being so stupid. I'd feel REALLY retarded and stupid if someone got killed because of it.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:42 pm

joefrank wrote:You have confirmed that you are of the ilk of which I am speaking.

No. I'm trying to put your mind at rest. I'm trying to say, "People did not stop because they are assholes. People did not stop because they know that it's dangerous to themselves and others to stop."

Sorry for trying to make you feel better. Have fun wallowing in your self-pity.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:45 pm

DallasPlaya wrote:
spectabillis wrote:I think we have a different opinion of what constitutes flaming, because terms like retarded and stupid are usually included in mine.
Someone asked me how *I* would feel. I would feel retarded if my shit fell off my vehicle and I certainly wouldn't be crying about people not helping me for being so stupid. I'd feel REALLY retarded and stupid if someone got killed because of it.

taking this to PM's...

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:51 pm

spectabillis wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:
spectabillis wrote:I think we have a different opinion of what constitutes flaming, because terms like retarded and stupid are usually included in mine.
Someone asked me how *I* would feel. I would feel retarded if my shit fell off my vehicle and I certainly wouldn't be crying about people not helping me for being so stupid. I'd feel REALLY retarded and stupid if someone got killed because of it.
taking this to PM's...

Don't bother. I'm not going to waste another second on someone who can't see that someone is trying to help them.

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:11 pm

Just because you thought it was safe for others to stop does not mean they had the same perception. Sure they should have slowed down and made room. Honestly though, personal care items are not worth a human life no matter how expensive that glass bottle of cologne may be. Every item you mentioned can be replaced at a supermarket or drugstore, your life certainly is not on sale at Wal-mart. We're supposed to hit the kamikaze rabbits, kamikaze shampoo should meet the same fate.

To reiterate: personal care items do not constitue an emergency in my opinion. Not even prescription medicines. If they're that important, they belong in the vehicle not the trailer.

Stopping for an injury accident or to clear major road hazards are other matters entirely; don't assume all burners who do not or cannot stop are fucko meanies, you don't know their situations much more than they yours.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:11 pm

A LITTLE SUGAR HERE: Most people have never had to know how to tie off a load. A lot go's into the job. Figure a head wind of 20+knot and you doing 55. Thats a sustained wind of 91 m.p.h. Some of us should spend time teaching, ya think? How's that,spaceballs¿¿

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:13 pm

Dplaya, you have a lot to learn my friend.

How can you see your cajoling as help? Don't you think you could be more gentle with him and still disagree? why resort to calling the poor man names after he felt rightly or wrongly left in the lurch.

That he would judge you as a burner or not a burner is his problem. Please slow down. show some courtesy.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:14 pm

If you're the person who has their stuff blow out the back it DOES suck. I also suspect there are as many reasons for people not stopping to assist as there were people who passed you by. I may have been one of those folk. I actually did see two different people picking up lost loads on and off the side of the road and I had no intention of helping them. It wasn't because I'm a heartless guy or that I was in a hurry to get home. I didn't stop because there WAS traffic and the location of the folks didn't lend to easily stopping off at the next pull off area 3/4 miles down the road. I know enough about 447 to say that you can very easily get stuck and that soft sands do little to assist with deceleration off the road and on to the shoulder. People who do it are asking for trouble. Right up there with folks who swerve to dodge little bunnies with a 10' trailer and a 1000+ lb load in the back. Somethings you just have to sacrifice.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:19 pm

Isotopia wrote:If you're the person who has their stuff blow out the back it DOES suck. I also suspect there are as many reasons for people not stopping to assist as there were people who passed you by. I may have been one of those folk. I actually did see two different people picking up lost loads on and off the side of the road and I had no intention of helping them. It wasn't because I'm a heartless guy or that I was in a hurry to get home. I didn't stop because there WAS traffic and the location of the folks didn't lend to easily stopping off at the next pull off area 3/4 miles down the road. I know enough about 447 to say that you can very easily get stuck and that soft sands do little to assist with deceleration off the road and on to the shoulder. People who do it are asking for trouble. Right up there with folks who swerve to dodge little bunnies with a 10' trailer and a 1000+ lb load in the back. Somethings you just have to sacrifice.

iso has the right tone here. balanced. thoughful. respectful and opinionated.

Yo unjon. looks like you and kernel are both from Salem Oregon. You might even know each other!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:20 pm

Also when I have to stop or slow pull a summitt. I have enough red lights to make you think there is a police raid in the road.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:26 pm

ubu wrote:Dplaya, you have a lot to learn my friend.

How can you see your cajoling as help? Don't you think you could be more gentle with him and still disagree? why resort to calling the poor man names after he felt rightly or wrongly left in the lurch.

That he would judge you as a burner or not a burner is his problem. Please slow down. show some courtesy.

OK, yeah. I'm sorry. Everyone should have stopped and risked their life and the lives of everyone else on the road to help him pick-up his $80 bottle of cologne. Anyone who didn't is not a real burner. I'm finally understanding Burning Man now. We're supposed to coddle the fuck-ups so that no one's feelings get hurt. Thanks for enlightening me.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:30 pm

DallasPlaya wrote:
ubu wrote:Dplaya, you have a lot to learn my friend.

How can you see your cajoling as help? Don't you think you could be more gentle with him and still disagree? why resort to calling the poor man names after he felt rightly or wrongly left in the lurch.

That he would judge you as a burner or not a burner is his problem. Please slow down. show some courtesy.
OK, yeah. I'm sorry. Everyone should have stopped and risked their life and the lives of everyone else on the road to help him pick-up his $80 bottle of cologne. Anyone who didn't is not a real burner. I'm finally understanding Burning Man now. Thanks.

~
Yup DP, Your a thick headed one.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:33 pm

*sigh*

I think you missed the point DallasPlaya, I am not talking about helping them out or not. My point is how you make your comments. This is a big difference which I pointed out, but since you choose to not reply to my PM I am making it here.

And I corrected you on what you call people, I hope you are not trying to back out of saying something you did.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:38 pm

spectabillis wrote:*sigh*

I think you missed the point DallasPlaya, I am not talking about helping them out or not. My point is how you make your comments. This is a big difference which I pointed out, but since you choose to not reply to my PM I am making it here.

And I corrected you on what you call people, I hope you are not trying to back out of saying something you did.

~
You are becoming a pain in the ass. Go rest your neck for a while.