A Rotten, Stinking Burning Man Experience

playasnake · Post by **playasnake** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:59 pm

take it to thunderdome and stfu already.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:03 pm

playasnake wrote:stfu already.

That's not a very nice thing to say. I'm sure one of the mods is PM'ing you as we speak.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:15 pm

DallasPlaya wrote:
playasnake wrote:stfu already.
That's not a very nice thing to say. I'm sure one of the mods is PM'ing you as we speak.

Yes, I am going to make a third and last attempt to keep in back in PM's, once again it will be your choice because I am not going to do it again.

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:15 am

So practicing Radical Self-Reliance" you jump out, light 3 flares and throw
them on the road. If anyone has an accident further up the road it's their fault for following too close! PERIOD! What is happening is these people who are still in default world mode, race up on thurs or fri and then want to race home to default world instantaneously after the burn. Sorry! These people are still clutching their cell phones to their heads despite no signal and probably had to have their laptop or palm pilot with them. This is not how to experience Burning Man! The hardships and time to get to know people can create fantastic bonding!! Who would want to miss that?

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of reno

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:24 am

Thank you Steel Kitty. Your News report was right on.
.
The arm chair investigatos will be working over time on this one. With spaceballs (or what ever) nipping at there heels to keep them nice. It's only 67° here today. So I will enjoy the flames.
.
Maybe BMorg should require tarped loads?

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:37 am

The dead will be taken to Reno, Nevada for identification. Next years Burning Man celebration may be impacted by this accident as local lawmakers push for more stringent controls on entry and exit from the festival.

In 2006 the BM permit is up for renewal. Now the LLC faces another battle to fight all because someone lost a fucking bottle of shampoo on 447 and they killed 15 people and cost millions of dollars in damages trying to retrieve it. This ranks as one of the most asinine things I've ever heard of...needless carnage over a stupid fucking decision. And yeah, it could end up fucking over the event everyone loves so much.

I hope whomever made this decision does not step foot back in the state of Nevada or attend another festival...and if the permit is denied that a huge heaping helping of blame falls right at their fucking doorstep.

Plonk is to your left if you don't like what I had to say....I really don't care if you like it or not.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:38 am

Well, let me apologize if my tone was less than diplomatic. I was honestly trying to help the guy understand the situation and feel better about what happened. But just as in my offline life, I often do ruffle some feathers (even though I'm really trying to help). I blame the Marines and my less-than-diplomatic drill instructors. :P

joefrank, PM me and I'll send you guys some Black Rock necklaces. Just tell me how many in your party.

spectabills, sorry we disagreed. I will monitor my "tone" better.

Ah...peaceful resolution...

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:45 am

DallasPlaya wrote:Well, let me apologize if my tone was less than diplomatic. I was honestly trying to help the guy understand the situation and feel better about what happened. But just as in my offline life, I often do ruffle some feathers (even though I'm really trying to help). I blame the Marines and my less-than-diplomatic drill instructors.

joefrank, PM me and I'll send you guys some Black Rock necklaces. Just tell me how many in your party.

spectabills, sorry we disagreed. I will monitor my "tone" better.

Ah...peaceful resolution...

~
Well, Smokie the Bear said: piss on the embers.Thank you DP for a good run.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:53 am

unjonharley wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:Well, let me apologize if my tone was less than diplomatic. I was honestly trying to help the guy understand the situation and feel better about what happened. But just as in my offline life, I often do ruffle some feathers (even though I'm really trying to help). I blame the Marines and my less-than-diplomatic drill instructors. :P

joefrank, PM me and I'll send you guys some Black Rock necklaces. Just tell me how many in your party.

spectabills, sorry we disagreed. I will monitor my "tone" better.

Ah...peaceful resolution...

~
Well, Smokie the Bear said: piss on the embers.Thank you DP for a good run.

Thanks, brother.

I just felt like I said what I needed to say out of concern for both the OP and the community itself. Like Kinetic said, we can't tolerate too many mistakes or we're all at risk (in terms of safety and in terms of the sustainability of the event). Next time I'll put a yummy sugar coating on it. :D

Orghua · Post by **Orghua** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:58 am

Isotopia, you Godly being! Why does one post these experiences on the Playa? Maybe to get a bad feeling off their chest? Maybe because they are looking for a reason, some insight, someone to make them feel better? You gave just that. You helped take the edge off of a perception that was jaded by the misfortune of the experience. You provided a perspective that motivates me to be more forgiving and reminds me to cultivate my awareness especially when I'm hurting. Thank you so much for that my friend.

DallasPlaya's words remind me of a piece from 'Beyond Black Rock' where David Best speaks of the young punk that strides up and tags the Temple with his spraybomb. He suggests that you can't be offended, because the young punk hasn't had the necessary experience to understand the meaning of the act. You have to forgive him, and know that a day might come when he understands. DallasPlaya is like that young punk, full of piss and vinegar, "helping" the world with his metaphoric spraybomb. But we learn from it nonetheless.

As for you Unjonharley, I feel sorry for you. For living in Salem, Oregon that is ;-) Haha! The antithesis of the Playa for sure. I'm here too, languishing in this one dimensional reality. But it is close to a lot of great places isn't it? The beach, the desert, Portland, the mountains ... oh Salem does have it's merits. I love to walk down Liberty St. with my most superfabulous Playa gear on a Wednesday evening with my girl, and have all the Salemites stare in disbelief and fear!

Peace out and many thanks,

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:24 am

joefrank wrote:DallasPlaya's words remind me of a piece from 'Beyond Black Rock' where David Best speaks of the young punk that strides up and tags the Temple with his spraybomb. He suggests that you can't be offended, because the young punk hasn't had the necessary experience to understand the meaning of the act. You have to forgive him, and know that a day might come when he understands. DallasPlaya is like that young punk, full of piss and vinegar, "helping" the world with his metaphoric spraybomb. But we learn from it nonetheless.

Thanks for taking the time to help me understand. Your perspective on me based on my posts here is just so true and clear and without any sort of presumptions whatsoever. Somehow you know me completely. I hope to someday achieve your level of brilliant understanding.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:37 am

DallasPlaya wrote:Well, let me apologize if my tone was less than diplomatic. I was honestBut just as in my offline life, I often do ruffle some feathers (even though I'm really trying to help). I blame the Marines and my less-than-diplomatic drill instructors.

LOL! Brother, I'll vouch you 'cause I've had the same problem over the years, especially in leadership or management positions.

S/Sgt Rawlings laid it out in pure, direct, no-bullshit, ear-splitting truth. That or skin-bruising verbal sarcasm. Get it done. No excuses, and no fucking excuses. And no fairy-fucking tissue-passing group-hug pity-parties afterward.

I know when I'm getting exasperated or frustrated with people and that Jamaican, BDU-clad devil starts whispering in my ear, I'm probably gonna piss somebody off if I don't back off for a minute.

-c
Which reminds me:

Semper Fi, little bro. One more month!
L/Cpl Jeremy Gattman, USMC
2nd LAR, Al Anbar Province, Iraq

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:48 am

ZaphodBurner wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:Well, let me apologize if my tone was less than diplomatic. I was honestBut just as in my offline life, I often do ruffle some feathers (even though I'm really trying to help). I blame the Marines and my less-than-diplomatic drill instructors. :P
LOL! Brother, I'll vouch you 'cause I've had the same problem over the years, especially in leadership or management positions.

S/Sgt Rawlings laid it out in pure, direct, no-bullshit, ear-splitting truth. That or skin-bruising verbal sarcasm. Get it done. No excuses, and no fucking excuses. And no fairy-fucking tissue-passing group-hug pity-parties afterward.

I know when I'm getting exasperated or frustrated with people and that Jamaican, BDU-clad devil starts whispering in my ear, I'm probably gonna piss somebody off if I don't back off for a minute.

-c
Which reminds me:

Semper Fi, little bro. One more month!
L/Cpl Jeremy Gattman, USMC
2nd LAR, Al Anbar Province, Iraq

Honestly, I'm glad I have it. It does come in handy. Unfortunately, some people can't hang with being told, straight up, that they fucked up. I'm very much into evaluating people based on what they DO not what they say or how they say it. I'm short with my friends when they do something wrong but I always hope they understand that the only reason I'm saying anything at all is because I care about them (some see that, some don't). This year, while driving up, I had someone criticize me about myself in a very short, terse way. I thought, "Thank god I have a friend who cares about me so much that he will risk offending me in order to help me." I guess not everyone thinks that way. Also this year, the friend who house-sat for me didn't take my dog to the dog park ONCE in eight days (I'd asked her to bring my dog at least every other day). I "yelled" at her not because she didn't take the dog to the dog park but because, as I said, "If you want people to be friends with you, you have to be reliable." Ugh. Life. Still learning.

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:32 am

OK! Now, heres how "The Force" sees it:

1. Driver at fault for not securing load, PERIOD!

2. Flares thrown out on the road immediately after the stop.

3. Someone with a red shirt or flag waving frantically to SLOW DOWN.

4. Yell loudly with authory STOP!! NOW!! ( try this, be anywhere in public
and say that while dropping your tonality and watch how many people
freeze and look your way instantly!
5. throw water on the road, they will think it's fuel and they will stop.
6. write down licence plate #'s of offenders who almost hit you. This should be done on any road any where! They committed 2 crimes. (1.)
failure to assist. (2.) almost hitting you which is potentially an involuntary manslaughter charge.

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:23 pm

JD, I love you, but...how do I say this nicely...um...that's not the advice I would give. You simply cannot stop safely on 447 and there's no reason to stop on 447 unless there is an injury accident or other safety reasons. We were driving into the event Tuesday night and I really needed to stop for 5 minutes because I was fading so we did stop -- ten minutes later at the next paved shoulder (we had a 30' RV; I had to yell at the guy behind us to turn on his blinkers -- I hope he didn't think I was being mean for not saying PLEASE).

Exodus is ten times worse than entry. People are tired, cranky, emotional, and some dipshits are still fucked up and/or haven't slept. NO ONE should die on 447. It's just ridiculous.

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:07 pm

Perhaps we need to petition the state for more of those paved turnouts.
It's B.S. to have to drive for so many miles and not have the ability to pull over safely!

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:27 pm

All that is needed for a turn out there is: A base net, stone and dirty gravel. The net is to keep the whole thing from sinking. The stone serves as a bridge. The dirt filled gravel packs to a hard surface. It's used in this part of the country to span lowlands. The sand in Na. is deep. Gravel would sink in a matter of months. Just pavement would break up within a year from ground movement. On the road up to Cedarville the turn outs are hard packed and a lot of them.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:30 pm

Perhaps we need to petition the state for more of those paved turnouts.

What's stopping you? Your sig suggests you're in Reno. Reno, Nevada. I can't think of a better place to start than with yourself and your idea.

Start walking the walk dude.

JediDale · Post by **JediDale** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:02 pm

www.petition.com me thinks. I will see what they can do.

Genuinely,

Jedi Dale Of Reno

mars · Post by **mars** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:08 pm

I have had two flat tires in an RV on 447. It's f-in scary. I do not expect anyone to stop and help. It's not safe. (Both times a highway patrolman stopped by and asked if we were okay and then left because we were.)

This year, on our way in, our RV was really struggling with the weight (which I know contributed to our flats and we really should carry less, but we distributed out as much as we could and we were still on the heavy side) and as a result we couldn't go very fast. We had a long line of cars behid us and every now and then someone took the risk to pass. Then one guy drove by and gave us the meanest gestures he could do with one arm out the window. And when we stopped in Gerlach he was there and came over to give us a piece of his mind.

I'm a pretty diplomatic person, and normally would NEVER let a line form on the road behind me without pulling over. So when this guy was done with his rant about how I should have pulled over, I said, "Dude, if I let 50 cars go by, there would just be another line of 50 behind me and I wasn't willing to risk my life pulling an RV onto a soft shoulder just so that YOU could pass. I'm sorry if you get to the event 20 minutes later because of me."

He turned and walked away.

To the original poster, I completely understand your desire to have people show compassion and caring to you in a stressful and unpleasant situation such as you described. And I understand your feeling of abandonment and disappointment when no one stopped, and, even worse, ran over your stuff. But it really is too dangerous on that road to have people slowing down or pulling over or running into the road. I think maybe it is more dangerous than you even realize.

And, yet, if this was a Rainbow Gathering people would have stopped even with the danger. And that would have felt really good and you would have had a story about how amazing the people were.

But Burning Man is a real lesson in self-reliance and while we may prefer it to be a lesson in community, that shows up less when we are in NEED and more when we have taken care of ourselves and are not NEEDING. That's my experience and observations.

Neon

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:18 pm

Badger wrote:
Perhaps we need to petition the state for more of those paved turnouts.
What's stopping you? Your sig suggests you're in Reno. Reno, Nevada. I can't think of a better place to start than with yourself and your idea.

Start walking the walk dude.

I will second that. If you think the process is straight-foreward or easy, you are in for a rather unpleasant surprise.

Bitterman · Post by **Bitterman** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:45 am

Kinetic IV wrote:I recall reading somewhere that the NHP highly discourages people from pulling off 447 due to soft shoulders and the tendency for vehicles to get stuck fast. So to stop means stopping in the traffic lane. And unless your vehicle is physically broken down, stopping in a traffic lane is one of the most asinine, dangerous, and downright stupid things a motorist can ever do especially on a hilly and narrow route like Nevada 447.

Yeah! What (s)he said!

Dud(e)tte)! Once you get back into your spaceship, it's every human for (her)himself. I know it sucks but it's the reality. Besides, there's no safe way to pull over there anyways. Sorry for your experience but it's like a balance for all the goodness you had in Black Rock City.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:09 am

Dude, go take a long walk off a short pier. Seriously. If it was safe to pull off I'd be much more inclined to stop for a burner than anyone else out there. And I stopped twice to help one, once along I-80 just outside of Winnemucca, the other in Wyoming but I didn't see the need to go trumpeting my horn about how good I was to do so. Anyway..... to stop and cost all those lives over a bottle of fucking shampoo or similar personal item? Give me a fucking break.

Plonk is to your left, I strongly suggest you use it because with the blood still damp on the pavement I'm not going to be changing my mind on this anytime soon. It's a damn tragedy, a stupid, highly preventable, mindless fucking tragedy.

Steel Kitty · Post by **Steel Kitty** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:57 am

Right on, Neon. Exactly my thoughts.

I'm just glad that the situation was a few personal items that were run over, and not as the fake news report I made up. One only has to do a search for pileups and collisions to know that even the biggest highways with shoulders and emergency services have pileups resulting from simple driver errors and mistakes like securing a load or watching traffic in front of you.

Stilesfamily · Post by **Stilesfamily** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:53 am

So much assumption going on here. If I lost some belongings on the 447, regardless of there importance, I would not have stopped, better my belongings as moop than my brains. Nor would I stop for anyone else’s moop, though I would certainly slow down, especially if they were running around the highway trying to pick it up, though I would deem it highly inadvisable to do so. In the end I think, JoeFrank, that I know I would not have stopped and it hurts my feeling to think that you would condemn me based on that decision. I think that may be why your statement rubbed a few people the wrong way, moreover you then condemned people for jumping to the conclusion that you may or may not have been negligent in your strapping down of your load, when you jumped to the conclusion that all those that drove by you were in some way lesser burners or flat out a-holes.

All that aside I think this thread has run its course and I regret adding to its length.

DVD · Post by **DVD** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:43 am

DallasPlaya wrote: Thanks for taking the time to help me understand. Your perspective on me based on my posts here is just so true and clear and without any sort of presumptions whatsoever. Somehow you know me completely. I hope to someday achieve your level of brilliant understanding.

Wow. Having met David and kindof understanding what he is getting at with his tale- it makes me think you're kind of, a bit of a cock. I hope sometime in the near future, off this message board fantasy world your mouth writes a check your ass can't cash and someone teaches you a bit of humility and/or grace.

See, ostensibly, you are correct. People are forewarned of loads coming lose, they are given plenty of tips on howe to secure loads and suggestions on how to drive 477. Also, there is a big fucking manual with bunches of rules in it that they are supposed to have read and completely understood *before* they got their driver's license. They are also supposed to have a modicum of common sense preventing them from standing in the middle of a 70mph highway just past a blind crest (or passing approaching same).

However, people get upset when things don't go as they expect, regardless of the rules. This was the case with the original poster. They expected something that the rules and common sense forbade. They were still emotional about it and felt they needed to vent the frustration.

Your course of action to help them out was to further increase their frustration by jabbing your inadequate message board moron stick at them. When it's pointed out that maybe there is a more reasoned approach to pointing out the rules/common sense- frustration paradox you contine with jabbing and pointing and swearing. That's how I arrive at my assement of you being a cock.

Now, being a closed system, others have baited you with less then helpful language (spectabillis) but they are feeling a similar frustration and admittedly handling themselves very poorly. It is your job to not rise to that and to recognise through whatever base and tribal language they throw at you there is a point.

Please just stop the petty bullshit. Explain yourself clearly and rationally- that is how consensus is built- that is how things actually *get solved*.

You all remind me of our useless president- playing political games with people's lives at stake. It's just disgusting.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:50 am

So what's up with calling someone a cock and wishing violence on them?

DVD · Post by **DVD** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:57 am

Kinetic IV wrote:So what's up with calling someone a cock and wishing violence on them?

Well:
A: That's my assesment of his persona as evidenced by this tread. I don't feel too far off base with that. I don't think he's stupid- he turned on his computer(apparently) and knows how to type in complete(ish) sentences.

B: I said teach. While learing is sometimes at the end of a cane it can come in many other forms. I prefer embarrasing verbal beatings in front of friends, family and assorted citizens. Violence is for children who don't know any better.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:25 pm

DVD wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote: Thanks for taking the time to help me understand. Your perspective on me based on my posts here is just so true and clear and without any sort of presumptions whatsoever. Somehow you know me completely. I hope to someday achieve your level of brilliant understanding.
Wow. Having met David and kindof understanding what he is getting at with his tale- it makes me think you're kind of, a bit of a cock.

joefrank has been talking about me as if he knows me. I was implying that he should end the personal attacks unless he actually knows what he's talking about.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:15 pm

oh gawd, I give up

A Rotten, Stinking Burning Man Experience

A possible answer...

If Only "Radical Self-Reliance" were practiced!

I think you have a good idea in there DP!

there is a place called...