BLM citations

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:10 pm

Mr. Mellow wrote:

Agreed, those of us who do suffer with Tourette's syndrome have enough problems of our own. Mentioning that a post is "Tourette's like" as part of some awkward ad honinem attack just trumpets your misunderstanding of the symptomology of Tourette syndrome.

Let me give you a little enlightenment, people with Tourette's suffer far more from people's ignorance than we do from the syndrome itself. Show some mindfulness and compassion towards your fellow man, you may be just as crippled on the inside as we are on the outside and equally deserving of understanding. Show the same compassion towards others you would desire for yourself.[/quote]

Nicely said Mellow, I live in a world of painful invulintary jerks and movements. I'm stared at and made fun of. I fill my life with fun and love. It make every thing possibel for me.

Mr. Mellow · Post by **Mr. Mellow** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:19 pm

unjonharley wrote:Nicely said Mellow, I live in a world of painful invulintary jerks and movements. I'm stared at and made fun of. I fill my life with fun and love. It make every thing possibel for me.

Rock on, Brother.

Mr. Mellow · Post by **Mr. Mellow** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:46 pm

As promised, from Associated Press article published September 4th entitled "Burning Man Festival Attracts Record Crowd -- Fewer Problems Reported":

The bureau's spokeswoman, Jo Simpson, said the event was running smoothly, with fewer problems than previous years. As of late Saturday, law enforcement agencies reported nine arrests -- up from six last year -- but only 11 citations issued, a dramatic decrease from last year's 167. All the incidents were drug-related.

So it was eleven this year like I said, as reported by the AP. I got nothing more to say on this topic, I think we killed it to death.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:26 am

unjonharley wrote:
Mr. Mellow wrote:
Agreed, those of us who do suffer with Tourette's syndrome have enough problems of our own. Mentioning that a post is "Tourette's like" as part of some awkward ad honinem attack just trumpets your misunderstanding of the symptomology of Tourette syndrome.

Let me give you a little enlightenment, people with Tourette's suffer far more from people's ignorance than we do from the syndrome itself. Show some mindfulness and compassion towards your fellow man, you may be just as crippled on the inside as we are on the outside and equally deserving of understanding. Show the same compassion towards others you would desire for yourself.

Nicely said Mellow, I live in a world of painful invulintary jerks and movements. I'm stared at and made fun of. I fill my life with fun and love. It make every thing possibel for me.[/quote]

That's hilarious. unjon comes on here and calls the lot of us druggies and a-holes and uses what degree of bad manners, but that's excusable because he might have a neuropathy? Compassion means not accepting that kind of behavior from anyone, regardless of neurological functioning.

That is no excuse. I have friends in the bay area with much more severe neuropathy and they are gentle and friendly if inhabiting of violently jerking and spitting bodies. They would never spew the bile that unjon does.

I take no offence at it mind you, but I don't approve of it, neuropathy or no.
You still need some manners, son. If you do sincerely have a problem, I can excuse your typing but not your manner or your arguments. Call it compassion.

xodiamondxo · Post by **xodiamondxo** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:04 am

This forum is about BLM citiations/law enforcement facts and experiences. Please assume that posters to this forum wish to have a productive exchange of information on that topic alone.

May I suggest that other subjects (character and neuropathy issues, instruction on etiquette and compassion, etc.) be handled in private messages among those interested / embroiled.

I'd rather not block people because all made interesting points before the discussion went off-topic.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:06 am

It is the LEOs job to enforce laws. What are people doping to remove drug enforcement from the their job description? Are people working to change the drug laws to something more sane and reasonable? That way the LEOs can go after the sexual predators, domestic abusers, and parents who neglect their children.

Advocate for a change in the drug laws!

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:14 am

Thread drift is a fact of life and a tradition on this board. Telling people to stop is like the little Dutch boy trying to use his fingers to stop the water. It's a nice try but it won't work.

PM's are not as effective as people are led to believe....they are usually read once and the message tossed. Posts on the other hand serve as warnings both now and into the future...in other words they work better.

So go ahead and block. It's your loss.

SaraSioux · Post by **SaraSioux** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:26 am

4 of the 5 people camping at BM2005 with me this year received Possession of Marijuana citations. We were busted by the "Internal Bureau of Land Management" so it's a federal citation, not a misdemeanor. They said if we pay it that it will not go on our record in any ways.

They found 2 1/2 ounces in 4 separate bags, plus a scale. Only two people were physically in the dome during the K-9 bust, but the cops found 4 sacks so they wanted to hand out 4 tickets. They told the 2 people on site that if they didn't give up the names of the other 2 sack owners, that they were going to take them to jail and kick us all out of the event.

My terrified friends gave up my name.

So two of us return to the camp with tickets waiting for us. I still have no idea how I can get a "Possession of Marijuana" ticket when I was nowhere near any marijuana, or any cops. How can they just write my name down on a ticket based on heresay, and then assume that I'll pay it?

$525 per ticket, at 4 tickets, makes it quite a pricey Burning Man trip.

My 5th year on the playa my first bust. Do not keep your bongs visible. Keep your structures as private and closed in as possible. Do not assume that you are free, or safe.

I'm going to fight it. I hope I can get off. I don't want to pay $525 for a law I feel is unjust.

Ohwell, guess it's not my place to say what is unjust or not.

safetythird · Post by **safetythird** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:51 am

I'm not sue if we are just lucky or if it was the way we conducted ourselves but NO ONE in our fairly large village (that I'm aware of) had been cited by the BLM or any other LEO agency this year. In fact we saw much less of them in general this year. Perhaps this is just my perspective.

A couple quick stories involving LEO or possible LEO.

Wednesday night Mrs S3 and I are hanging around on the Esplanade waiting for part of our group to catch up and a chilly breeze came up. I opened my jacket and Mrs S3 snuggled right in, as we commonly do. I guess it looked real suspicious to some Sherrifs that were nearby (where the hell did they come from?) and they lit us up with their flashlights. They kindly told us that they were looking for people smoking weed on the playa and that it looked like Mrs S3 was lighting up. No harm, no foul. That was our only encounter with them all week.

On multiple occasions during the week, more often later in the week, a guy would come into the Monkey Lounge "looking" for the guy with orange glasses who supposedly could hook him up with acid. No, we didn't know who he was and no, we didn't know where to get any. Similar stories from other camps in our village.

Far less random BLM wandering through our camp but possibly more undercover officers. Interesting change in strategy. I don't like it but as long as we continue to use common sense they'll eventually get bored and cross our camp off their list.

S3

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:06 am

SaraSioux, please check the full thread for some of the strategies used to contest. Also, please chat with a lawyer. You look like a good case for dismissal.

Those of you in jurisdictions that are strict regarding MJ use are in better shape than those poor hapless souls from the Bay Area who go to BM without reading the LEO related fine print. At GG park this weekend I saw kids doing whippets in public and many pipes out in the open with nary a glance from the LEOs. That is bad BM training.

For the legal status of your meds of choice, please check Erowid.org. Whippets consumed for purposes of intoxication are illegal.

desertswine · Post by **desertswine** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:34 pm

Dear fellow E-playans,let me shed some light on this problem.If you didn't already know,Nevada is a Zero tolerate state when illegal drugs are concerned.A simple joint will cost you $652.00,illegal fireworks will cost you $100.00.There were no more police than last year,and yes those same police agentcies do send many a undercover peeps,to find those of us that do engage in useage.Remember this there are several law enforcement agentcies involved,so depending on who cites you,the fines are different.Lothos

mr. fang · Post by **mr. fang** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:12 am

Mr. Mellow wrote:As promised, from Associated Press article published September 4th entitled "Burning Man Festival Attracts Record Crowd -- Fewer Problems Reported":
The bureau's spokeswoman, Jo Simpson, said the event was running smoothly, with fewer problems than previous years. As of late Saturday, law enforcement agencies reported nine arrests -- up from six last year -- but only 11 citations issued, a dramatic decrease from last year's 167. All the incidents were drug-related.
So it was eleven this year like I said, as reported by the AP. I got nothing more to say on this topic, I think we killed it to death.

Well, we could talk about why Ms. Simpson would be lying, since there were more than 11 citations.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:19 am

We were busted by the "Internal Bureau of Land Management" so it's a federal citation, not a misdemeanor

Perhaps the official count is of the hard core distribution charges that absolutely mandate that the charges are answered to in Federal Court...the petty possession charges get swept under the rug and the proceeds go to the BLM kitty....betcha that's what happened here. We may have saw an internal BLM policy shift as they got wise to the revenue potential. Of course I could be wrong too...it's all just speculation.

Cosworth Magellan · Post by **Cosworth Magellan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:21 am

This whole "11 citations" business can't possibly be correct, assuming that nobody in this thread is lying about what they experienced.

Two of our neighbors were busted in two separate incidents (both times doing blatantly stupid things) and I personally witnessed a third bust out on the playa. This means that I either witnessed 1/4 of *all* citations at BM this year (highly unlikely) or the AP is wrong.

I'm not trying to suggest that anybody is lying about the number of citations, only that this number seems rather... low.

Picasso · Post by **Picasso** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:28 pm

11 has to be wrong I saw two busts and watched them both for a hour. Both of them people at sun rise smokeing pot. Cops would seperate them and search them. In both busts I saw tickets handed out. It also seems they did a warrent check as well.

How much does it cost to get all the gear out there to bust a few 100 people for smokeing pot? What a fucking waste. Wasnt there a hurrancae going on?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:50 pm

Cosworth Magellan wrote:This whole "11 citations" business can't possibly be correct, assuming that nobody in this thread is lying about what they experienced.
<snip>
I'm not trying to suggest that anybody is lying about the number of citations, only that this number seems rather... low.

If BLM and Pershing Co. Sherrif and DEA and FEMA each busted 11--well you can do the math.

Cosworth Magellan · Post by **Cosworth Magellan** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:50 am

If BLM and Pershing Co. Sherrif and DEA and FEMA each busted 11--well you can do the math.

That's what I was thinking, so I re-read the relevant bit of the AP article, which states:

As of late Saturday, law enforcement agencies reported nine arrests -- up from six last year -- but only 11 citations issued

Which makes reference to agencies, plural, not just BLM. And the arrest numbers sound correct year-to-year. Given my personal experiences with journalistic accuracy, It's easy to see how AP could simply be wrong.

Edit: HTML/BBCode issues.

desertswine · Post by **desertswine** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:39 pm

ok,lets see there was Pershing Co. Sheriff,Washoe Co. Sheriff,BLM,DEA,Nevada Highway Patrol,so nobody really know exactly how many citations were issued for at least 2-3 weeks post event but I do know this,more than 11 citations were issued.Lothos,Desertswine,Medic 5,Logistics 20 or whoever I am.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:30 am

ds, are you an sf leo?

It is a relief to be back with real city police after bm, I must say. My local precinct crew are mostly mensch that spend their time maintaining peace and order and they aren't in the habit of walking through my backyard!

desertswine · Post by **desertswine** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:50 am

Ubu,Yes i do live in Sf,CA .I work for a Police dept.in another city.The ways in which different law enforcement agencies work,really does amaze me,thats why i dont work with the Leo's on playa.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:52 am

Plus, you probably need a break from a demanding job.

My precinct crew are so careful to respect rights and follow proper procedure.
It may seem like their hands are tied too much by such procedure, but we do just fine in this rather hard scrabble hood.

Mr. Pelican Bay (just out earlier this year), who lives up the street, and who has no respect for persons or law, decided to steal a tv from the rec center in the middle of the daytime, in front of witnesses. (i guess he had to catch his favorite show) The witnesses told the block busy body and he called the precinct house. They informed him that they needed more before they could enter the guy's house but that they would send a sqad car to hang out in front of his apartment to let him know people knew something was up. After a day of random squad car squats, our busy body went and knocked on his door and said, " you have ten minutes to return the tv or the cops are coming." The tv was returned in ten minutes.

On the other hand if there is violence or a disturbance, the cops are here in a jiffy every time, dealing with the rather brutal and stupid and violent with as much decorum and respect as they can without endangering themselves too much.

Makes BRC look like fantasy island.

Blackrock Lover · Post by **Blackrock Lover** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:22 pm

Yes, there were more than 11. That number is probably from one agency despite what the press said.

I haven't had a chance to read this thread in totality but please understand that what you might see as LEOs snooping around could be something entirely different that I am sure you would be supportive of, based on my personal experience.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:44 am

welcome back brlover.

I'm not supportive of any non-participants in or around my camp area, thank you. I told the LEOs that if they did come snooping through again, that I expected a formal hello announcing their arrival. I'd be happy to help them orient themselves if they are lost in the city. They had a hard time even telling me their names or even mustering the slightest bit of decorum. Bad manners will make you even less welcome in my camp.

I hope you are well.

Kinetic, brlover and I can set you straight on this: There is no revenue incentive to bust people for the BLM: citation monies will go to the CVB, a federal fund that is used for good causes, perhaps even Katrina relief this year.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:52 am

I appreciate the clarification, thank you Ubu.

Bitterman · Post by **Bitterman** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:47 pm

Out of all our tribe members who've been going since '96, our total bust break down is like this:

fireworks - 2001, $135, busted by B.L.M. ranger, uniformed officer

MJ - 2002, $165, busted by guy in ball cap (Fed) with night vision googles

MJ- 2005, $650, busted by federal agent from Montana, uniformed

MJ - 2005, $650, busted by B.L.M. rangers who were cruizing thru camp sites in their bronco, uniformed in marked vehicle

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:43 am

We had some very suspicious dudes roll through our inner camping area one morning - older, wearing sunglasses, party shirts and shorts. They appeared to be sniffing for pot. I was very tempted to go right up and give them a big hug, since I personally had no worries (and I should welcome them to the camp, right?). I'm sure it would have freaked them out! But since I was in a camp of 42 other people, I did not want to draw any attention to our camp from freaked out undercover cops. Aside from an attempted underage drinking sting (luckily we had a very experienced bartender on duty at the time who refused service without seeing an ID first) we had no issues this year (down from one the previous year which resulted in 2 tickets). I did have several people out on the Playa ask me for drugs, which of course I did not respond to (assumed they were cops and moved along). I saw no arrests either, if anyone is counting.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:57 am

I asked for a ride in an art car and they demanded drugs from me. They weren't interested in me when I wouldn't produce any. I now believe this was a police car. This crosses the line and is not acceptable. I have sent a complaint to the DMV. This is an attempt at entrapment.
Next year I'll be carrying spray paint and if this happens I'll tag the car on the spot. I suggest others do the same. Perhaps "police" written on the side will make other riders cautious about producing drugs. If I tag a real art car with a stupid owner, I'll be happy to discuss the matter with the rangers or anyone else.

On the question of spotting undercover in general, this is a very unique culture. Just as in WWII cultural questions were used to spot fakes, we could do the same. The hard part is the variety here. Perhaps someone can suggest a good set of universal questions. I can think of addresses but there are probably much better ideas out there. How about it?

Cosworth Magellan · Post by **Cosworth Magellan** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:13 am

I asked for a ride in an art car and they demanded drugs from me. They weren't interested in me when I wouldn't produce any. I now believe this was a police car.

I dunno, that sounds like more than a few legit art car operators I've met.

This is an attempt at entrapment.

No, it isn't. We've already been over that in this thread.

If I tag a real art car with a stupid owner, I'll be happy to discuss the matter with the rangers or anyone else.

I'm curious as to what you think would happen if you tagged a *real* police art car.

I can think of addresses but there are probably much better ideas out there. How about it?

Well, not giving drugs to strangers would render the whole point somewhat moot, wouldn't it?

Oh, and whatever you do - if they're DPW, do NOT tag their car.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:45 am

Yeah, tag the car on the spot. And you'll likely be witnessing playa justice in short order. And if it's a DPW vehicle....let's just hope there's a Ranger within earshot when you start crying like a baby when they get through with ya.

Being dead serious for a minute, no matter what's said tagging a vehicle like you propose is wrong. If it's an art car it's destruction of art. If it's a police vehicle you punched a one way ticket to Lovelock. All in all it's a bad idea. There are better ways and if you think this out you can come up with something better.

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:00 am

I am curious as to whether or not the "undercover" vehicles have DMV lic stickers on them. Can anyone answer that? If not I will find out as I did the flame effects inspections for DMV and I will talk to Odwally and see. If they do not carry the stickers, this would be an easy way to identify the "fakes". If they do carry stickers, I want to know why the Org is supporting these people. Perhaps they are coerced or perhaps it is part of the BLM contract. Any thoguths?

BLM citations

I respectfully suggest...

11 is wrong

citations

number of cites....

Undercover "Art" Cars-Mark the Unmarked Cars