Wind-powered land craft

Hepcat · Post by **Hepcat** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:03 am

Prior to my first burn, I wondered if there would be wind-powered craft in use. I did see a few converted sailboards and some larger motorized pieces with sails. I would like to pilot a true wind-driven vehicle next year and am looking for input.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:10 am

Wait till pepe logs in here in a week or two.

He'll answer all yor quesions....

Angry Butterfly · Post by **Angry Butterfly** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:35 pm

oooooooooooo!
I want to do the same thing, Like a zuma (that is a big sunfish that holds about 5 people) on wheels.

Skyhawk · Post by **Skyhawk** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:35 pm

Wind-Powered Vehicles at Burning Man: Specifications & Regulations

1.0 SPECIFICATIONS
1.1 Braking System: An effective mechanical braking system is required.
1.2 Weight: The maximum weight of the vehicle should be no more than 50 pounds (22 Kilos). An additional 30-50 pounds should be allowed for small trailers. In general, the vehicle should be easily hoisted above the head of the operator.
1.3 No Fixed Mast Vehicles: All wind-powered skateboards or similar lightweight conveyances will require a pivoting mast rather than a fixed mast.
1.4 Design: The vehicle must be operated while the sailor is in a standing position, not in a seated or reclined position.
1.5 Expressly prohibited vehicle types:
1.5.1 Three-wheeled "land yachts".
1.5.2 Kite Sailing vehicles (i.e. powered by a high flying kite rather than attached to a mast).
1.6 Artistic Expression: The wind skate community is encouraged to decorate their craft.

from:
http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... s/dmv.html

Skyhawk · Post by **Skyhawk** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:39 pm

if your fixed on your big sailboat with wheels, you might consider making it an artcar, from a suitible land yacht (an old chrysler) that has a mesh sail that you cna quickly take down in a windstorm. alltogether,. this might (probably will) end up costing less then fabricating a wind powered craft from the ground up, will be safer, and the DMV wont have to ground you, or hit you with sticks, or whatever they are into.

Hepcat · Post by **Hepcat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:43 am

Those rules seem a bit restrictive and myopic. Sort of limits you to one of three things. That would be a windsurfer, a windsurfer and yes, that would be a windsurfer for a $100, Bob.

Skyhawk · Post by **Skyhawk** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:49 am

restrictive and myopic? how safe do you think you could be in a huge, heavy land sailer that suddenly got a 70+ mph gust shoving it toward someones structure (or car, or artbus, or group of random people)? at least a windsurfer could only kill Themselves in most situations.

Skyhawk · Post by **Skyhawk** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:03 am

I dont know if or how many people got hurt here. this is just an example of why its a Bad idea to navigate a crowded place by something wind powered.

Hepcat · Post by **Hepcat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:48 am

Taking the environment and conditions into consideration , a safe and funtional craft could be built. I understand that there are limitations but
50# max seems a trifle small. I am not advocating the use of a standard sailing craft fitted with wheels. I thought something akin to a small recreational beach-style boat contructed from scratch, taking all potential hazards into account(i.e. pedestrians, gusty winds, reduced visibility,and all the other conditions present on th playa.) Without the current weight limitations, interesting and safe craft could be responsibly piloted. This simply is one man's opinion.

Angry Butterfly · Post by **Angry Butterfly** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:31 pm

50 lbs seems a bit small but is in line with what I had in mind, a real sunfish doesnt weigh much more than that, I remember being able to lift ours when I was about 14

Hepcat · Post by **Hepcat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:31 pm

I'm going to assume that the weight of the craft includes all equipment including the wheels, thier support and sails. I'm thinking they don't actually have a scale. But the lifting requirement might address that. Once again, I propose that a feesible and safe craft could be constructed and piloted on the playa. This could weigh as little as 50#,(although wouldn't be as "arty" do to weight constraints) or around 200#. That would include a number of safe features for observers and occupants. I do; however, welcome the challenge either way.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:30 pm

Skyhawk's pix and Badger's comment tell the story of why the DMV banned the large scale sail yachts...

The one in the pix if I recall correctly got out of control and smashed into Pepe's fixed pirate ship / stage / whatever, and caused a lot of damage. Ever since the ban has been enforced....unless you go beyond the fence and run it out there.

Hepcat · Post by **Hepcat** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:24 pm

OUCH, that picture shows a need for restraint. That mast must be forty feet tall, if the perspective seems correct. There should be rules governing
such craft. Perhaps, there could be rules limiting the size of playa sailing craft. Perhaps they should enact rules that forbid ANY craft or vehicle that could cause injury or damage. Perhaps, those vessels using corrosives or flamable gasses, should be constrained or excluded. I feel there is a middle ground that includes all creative craft. I can understand why they limit the "my mast/dick" is bigger ships. My problem is with the reactionary rules currently in place. I can work within them but desire more latitude to create.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:07 pm

You could argue that the 1998 land yacht v. Pepe's tower incident provided sufficient reason to create rules for forty-foot-long, thirty-foot-wide, forty-foot-mast welded-steel-frame wind-powered vehicles weighing a couple of tons -- but it was piloted by a drunk who was already told very specifically by the Rangers not to move the thing within the BRC limits.

I had a great view of the incident, as I was riding shotgun with Wet Spot, one of the water truck drivers, around the upwind side as the guy tacked into the mud towers.

Common sense, the existing DMV rules, the pyro rules, etc., along with the general caution not to interefere with anybody's immediate experience, should be sufficient to address any harebrained moron's rolling abortion.

There are no rules about installing speed limiting devices on any sort of vehicle because we trust that people will not cause harm to themselves or others. Etc. If some new sort of vehicle appears that obviously might cause harm, the Rangers are empowered to disable it.

I have my own opinions, of course -- I think parachuting and motorized gliding are tacky, because to date I haven't seen anything truly artful or original, in keeping with the idea that it's an art fest. If you want aerial photos, take a plane ride or send a camera up with a balloon or kite.

Biff the Paperboy · Post by **Biff the Paperboy** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:48 pm

Hey All,
To the essense of the situation...
Rules are needed because in a culture without rules (hoping members will be self-controlled) too many exeed the limits.
Wind-powered craft are a particular problem.

The sail/boards are ok because with a swivelling mast, a drunk or unconscious pilot will drop the mast and the craft will halt (bad case scenario)
A traditional landsailer could continue without even a pilot aboard.
Kite/buggys are scary due to the lines between the flyer and the kite.

Establishment rules are always designed to prohibit or restrict, never allow.

That said, the rules only apply within the fencing around our city.

I've brought my kite buggy every year.
The fine folks at the airport allow us to utilize their portal onto the open playa where we can sail around the city or off into the dry distance.

Just because I know what I'm doing and would never operate in a manner to cause risk to others, I'm not confident that everyone else feels the same way and it would always be so.
So I have no problem riding outside the fence.

Unless I have an opportunity to cheat and sneak into the city and make a quick ride-through... Did I say that out loud?

biff

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:12 am

You might like to know that operating outside the fence within a certain distance of the city is actually a violation of our BLM Permits, and could net you a hefty fine, so be careful if you decide to do it. If you want to ride your windcraft on the open Playa, do so a long distance from the perimeter, or before or after the event.

III · Post by **III** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:59 am

never trust a ranger

http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... iving.html

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:08 am

I guess there's an exception made specifically for wind vehicles to those rules. The rule regarding operation outside the perimeter was designed to prevent people sneaking in (and to allow the perimeter folks to have some recourse against those who do try), so perhaps there's some selective enforcement going on, or the parameters of the permit were changed. Thanks for setting me straight.

III · Post by **III** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:20 am

>>parameters of the permit were changed.

i believe that there is an area outside the fence that still counts as part of the permitted space, originally intended for aircraft, but with a general enough exception that the windsailers can go there as well. i'm pretty sure that it's been that way since 2000 (i think. was '99 the year that gadget got dosed and ran his landsailer into pepe's tower? or '98?).

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:37 am

was '99 the year that gadget got dosed and ran his landsailer into pepe's tower? or '98?

It was '98

http://snrc.stanford.edu/~petrie/burn.html

Dave-O · Post by **Dave-O** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:00 pm

Chai Guy,

Thanks for posting the pics and links to Charles Petrie's diary of the crash and the injuries he sustained. That was my first year at BM and I was windsurfing on a small skateboard craft. I only learned of the accident the following year after they banned all wind-powered vehicles. Since then I worked very closely with the DMV to come up with the current rules for wind powered vehicles. They are very restrictive by design. The vehicle must be light, very light (50 lbs. or less), and fixed masts are prohibited. One has to be competent enough to stand and sail the contraption. Ranger Bogman put it quite elegantly over diner when we were first negotiating some rules. He said "fire spinning/dancing is a 'self-regulating' activity. Those that can't do it well hurt themselves and stop doing it before they get a chance to hurt anyone else. I see how that analogy applies here."

With a vehicle that meets specs, if an operator is not competent, a rapid crash will ensue before the operator can put others in harms way, and the hard playa will very swifly convince them to find some other way to pass the time.

Thanks for helping to educate people. I have had to endure countless flaming emails from people with kite buggies or 3-wheeled land cruisers complaining that they should also be allowed to sail the playa. I wish I previously had the link to Charles Petrie's diary of the crash and the injuries he sustained. It would have gone a long way to help them understand why BM is so concerned about wind-powered craft.

Cheers,
Dave-O

Dave-O · Post by **Dave-O** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:26 pm

OK, so certain wind powered craft are allowed to sail the playa. On the Friday before the burn we will put on a Playa Sailing Parade for the people of BRC. We had a successful one in 2002 with about a dozen vehicles, but the wind did not cooperate last year.

WHAT: Playa Sailing Parade :lol:
WHEN: Friday Sept. 3rd. @ 2pm (or when the wind picks up)
WHERE: We will rally up half way between Center camp and the Man. Look for the sails.
WHO: Anyone with a windpowered craft that meets specs and likes to have fun.

Awards will be given for the most interesting/original/creative designs. After the awards we will sail in a slow serpentine in the open space towards the Man.

BTW, don't show up with a vehicle that is not allowed or the rangers will have to take it away.

See the Official BM link below for 2004 rules:
http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... iving.html

Here is some Info. I wrote to help people understand the rules:
http://home.pacbell.net/manthajo/BurningManWindsurfing/
I wrote this page two years ago when we were still working out the rules with the BRC DMV. Sorry I haven't updated the page, but I don't know how to write HTML and my friend who coded it for me is busy with his house.

SAIL SMART & SAIL SAFE!! Any stupid stuff could jeopardize the future of playsurfing. Please be careful and considerate to people, vehicles, and art installations.

Cheers,
Dave-O :D

p.s. I am with LiteBrite camp, so look me up if you want to sail the playa.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:13 am

I'd say Boggman is unsafe at any speed, but I'm a little unclear on how these --

-- are kept under 5 mph, and how they are “whimsical”, “surreal”, and "radically, stunningly... modified" so as to "not represent the base vehicle".

Dave-O · Post by **Dave-O** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:23 am

Hi Bob,

Not everything needs to shoot flames to add to the beauty of the playa scene. Countless people have said to me that it was one of their BM highlights to see these craft gracefully harness nature's forces and provide a sort of kinetic art. Sailing itself is an art.

Sure it can be argued that we are still using a windsurfing sail/mast/boom and riding on a board with wheels. Unfortunately the laws of physics still apply on the playa and inorder to actually move the sail needs to be highly efficient, the vehicle light and low in friction. Even merely painting a sail creates wind drag and reduces its efficiency dramatically. That being said, my friends and I utilize our sails as a canvas to create fun and interesting visual art. But alas, art is a matter of perspective...

Larry Harvey personally said to me that he really enjoyed seeing us sailing the playa and welcomed our contribution to the BM experience. Everyone sees the world throught different eyes.

Cheers,
Dave-O

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:48 am

IMO, if that's all you can come up with, don't bother citing the alleged rulebook.

Tiger Tiger · Post by **Tiger Tiger** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:07 am

III wrote:i believe that there is an area outside the fence that still counts as part of the permitted space, originally intended for aircraft, but with a general enough exception that the windsailers can go there as well...

All types of wind powered vehicles are welcome to sail on the playa OUTSIDE the trash fence but ONLY if you access this area through the Airport Gate. You'll get a short briefing to let you know areas to avoid, such as the landing strip and medevac helipad. You'll also get some form of ID to allow you back inside without buying another ticket. Do not simply hop over the fence; you may be picked up as a suspected gate crasher.

And I'll repeat that all types of wind-powered vehicles are welcome to sail out from the Port of Entry/Airport/Harbor; kite buggies, land yachts, etc. If you are not approved by the DMV to operate inside the trash fence, you'll need to push your rig or hitch a ride on a art car to get to the Airport. You may leave your rig at the Airport during the event. You may also choose to camp at the Port of Entry. It's a lot like camping in the main camp, except it's quiet at night, has considerably less dust, has open space, and clean portapotties.

If anyone wishes to setup a theme camp for wind-powered vehicles, we have plenty of room for you.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:51 pm

Bob--

Actually, I think that those two craft in your picture look pretty cool!

<shrugs>

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 am

Dave-O · Post by **Dave-O** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:35 am

Bob wrote:IMO, if that's all you can come up with, don't bother citing the alleged rulebook.

Whatever Bob, everyone is entitled to an opinion, even you...

peace,
:D

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:58 am

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/spring/land_boat.htm

Wind-powered land craft

Wind-powered land craft

Outside the fence

Stand corrected

Thanks

Playa Sailing Parade on Friday Sept. 3rd. @ 2pm

It is all about perspective...

???