Critical Tits photography

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
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The Bass
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Post by The Bass » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:39 am

DaShiv --

Thanks for your post. You are clearly one of the good guys, and I'm sure you'll get along just fine with all the boys in bras.

But I think you are missing something fundamental about the "rules" or norms of our community with respect to consent and photography.

The burden is on the photographer to gain consent from his/her subjects. It is NOT on the subjects to "refuse" their consent.

It is "opt-in," not "opt-out."

This is a Big, Big difference.

I think you've missed it - based on these comments:

DaShiv wrote: By all means, photogs who single out unwilling subjects before the CT ride or continue to photograph those who have clearly refused consent during the parade are violating the photography rules. However, you're making a wild assumption that merely photographing the parade itself is somehow tantamount to not using the camera "according to the rules", especially when many of the participants WANT to be photographed, whether by a designated photographer or by the public in general.

* Shake your head no, yell "no photos of me!", or do something similar to make it clear that you do NOT consent to be photographed. Most of us are more than happy to honor that request, and it alerts nearby people to help police any yahoos if they don't put their cameras down.
Again - my understanding is that you do not have permission to take ANYONE's picture at BM without their consent.

You are responsible for gaining that consent.

They are not responsible for "refusing" it.

Now, I agree that it's nearly impossible to gain consent from everyone who might be in, say, a shot of CT - even if you're trying to get someone who _has_ consented, or even requested.

But I'd say that in this case, you're really on the honor system in terms of what kind of picture you take - try to minimize the nonconsenting people in the shot.

I don't much like the watergun idea either - it fails to differentiate the good from the bad.

But I do think some sideline educating next year would be good...

Or am I wrong about the norms of the community?

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DaShiv
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Post by DaShiv » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:26 pm

Take a look at the following images from our image gallery:

image1
image2
image3
image4
image5

Was verbal consent received from every single subject in those photos prior to the photos being taken? Were these photos "opted in"? The answer is clearly no.

The simple fact is, photography is neither opt-in nor opt-out, but instead there's a vast space between clear refusal of consent and clear granting of consent (or even request/solicitation to being photographed). I don't have a copy of the photographer's agreement lying around right now (although I can pick up a copy the next time I'm in the office) but I recall that some of its key tenets included compliance with with wishes of unconsenting subjects and strict noncommercial use of photos. However, if strict verbal consent were required before each and every photo, many (most?) of the people photos in our image gallery would simply not have been documented at all.

I think you may have mistaken my post as blaming people for not making their non-consent clear -- I was making it clear that people should be pro-active in doing so, including before being asked. Blonde Iguana's original post in this thread illustrates the case in point: if she felt uncomfortable with the feeding frenzy from the other photographers after granting permission for one of them to take her picture, it would have been best for her to make this unambiguously clear: "I said he could take my picture, not the rest of you, so back off." "That's enough now, no more photos." etc. The point isn't whether she's at fault or not for not "opting out", nor do I advocate photographers being given absolute free reign up until the point where non-compliance is made clear; the point is that permission "granted very tenatively as we edged away" from a "bizarre, and very creepy situation" sends the wrong messages compared to an assertive "no". If I were a bystander there, I for one would have stepped in after she made her wishes clear, as would have the rest of you, I'm sure. To me, Burning Man's self-reliance ethos has always included community self-policing as well.

Here's a hypothetical: what's the difference between a dedicated photojournalist covering a story of public interest and an unscrupulous ambulance chaser looking to sell sensationalist photos? Especially when they're both standing side-by-side doing the same thing by taking photos of the same scene? The difference has everything to do with intent, final use, editorial discretion, and profit, and nothing to do with consent of subjects involved. To illustrate:
olivia wrote:I saw a guy there this year who would offer to mist any beautiful, topless girl, then ask to take a picture. He would then capture a shot of her glistening breasts. I saw this guy singling girls out based on how scantily clad and attractive they were.
If this photographer had posted those photos in a free gallery entitled "Hot Naked Boobs of Burning Man", he would likely find himself in a lot of trouble despite having received consent to take the photos and despite not having attempted to sell those images at all. Verbal consent is but one small aspect of photographer conduct. Sure, there's no scrupulous way of using photos of subjects who have refused consent, but trying to make the issue one of only that of consent clearly oversimplifies the issue, as the above scenario shows.

And the consequences from this oversimplification is not merely a theoretical concern for us photographers. For instance, shortly before sunrise on Sunday morning after the burn, an unconscious man was brought over to the warm hearths of the Synapses installation. Someone from DPW happened to be there to radio for backup, a nearby Ranger quickly arrived on scene, and medical showed up shortly thereafter. I tasked myself with documenting each step of BRC's excellent and hardworking playa safety teams in hopes of maybe capturing a couple of good "in action" shots to submit to CameraGirl for the Rangers and Emergency Services section of this year's Afterburn report. Asking for the consent of the unconscious patient would have been impossible, of course, and explaining to the Ranger/Medical people who I am and what I was shooting for would've been a time-consuming (and potentially harmful) distraction while they were busy working the scene. And predictibly, while I was going about my documentation work, a woman mistook my motivations and came up to demand that I stop shooting, that I was being exploitative and disrespectful, that what kind of terrible person am I to think that this would be "a cool vacation photo", etc. She might have thought that she was doing the right thing; instead, she was wrong in her assumptions, and tried to actively interfere with my shooting by blocking my view. After the patient was revived and brought away, I explained myself more fully to her, only to have her turn away and leave without a word. I'm still working through my backlog of shots and haven't looked through that night's take yet, but it's quite likely that her mistaken assumption prevented me from supplying the website with the positive images of our playa safety teams that I was trying to make. It's unfortunate, but once again: c'est la vie. You get used to these things when you're photographing out there on the playa.

In short:

* Consent is not the only issue. Consent is not even a black and white issue. However, it is still unethical to use photos of Burning Man subjects who have refused consent.
* A photographer's responsibility isn't merely to track down verbal consent from everything that crosses in front of their lens. Rather, a photographer's duty is not to be an asshat, period, when it comes to all aspects of how they photograph others and how they use those photographs.
* Unconsenting subjects can help protect themselves by being pro-active in asserting their non-consent.
* The community can also help by actively enforcing camera tagging and by helping to self-police in situations where photographers are harassing others.
* There are a number of "creeps with cameras" out there, but by and large photographers aren't out to get you. We are a part of the community, too.

I believe photographers should ask for consent whenever it's reasonable and appropriate, but I strenuously disagree with anyone who would fault a photographer simply for failing to acquire consent before shooting. Whenever a photographer is doing something wrong at Burning Man, the issue is almost always due to a failure to recognize a refusal of consent, rather than one of failing to acquire consent beforehand. Otherwise, finding out what a photographer is up to can be done much the same way as with anyone else in BRC: ask. It never ceases to amaze me that people at BRC are able to be open, friendly, and inquisitive about all sorts of freaks out on the playa -- except for the ones carrying cameras, that is, for whom it is apparantly appropriate to immediately pronounce judgment on sight. All I ask is that all of you practice a little radical inclusion before getting paranoid at the mere sight of a camera. That's all.

Key Man
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Post by Key Man » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:19 pm

I brought a small camcorder (registered and tagged by BM at the gate) and gave these topics much thought while there.

At first, partly because of lack of research (maybe call it pack & prep overload), I didn't really know what the guidelines for using it were, so worked out my own. I tend to give others plenty of space and privacy, and it seemed obvious that shots of topless and nude women, or nude men, should be avoided.

Shots of clothed people raised questions. With video it's trickier, IMO. With still images one tends to select a subject or a scene, then set exposure, zoom, etc. Taking a picture of someone is a well defined event and includes some participation from the subject -- permission and cooperation seem like essential ingredients.

I shot a lot of video from my bike while pedaling around. When I saw breasts or nudity I either stopped recording, or panned to the side. (Out of 4 hours of video shot, only about 11 female breasts can be seen, most of them from a distance. Considering the amount of bared flesh at BM, I think that's pretty respectable.)

No way would I even consider taping Critital Tits. I didn't see it anyway but if I had, I'd have stuffed the camcorder into my bag and behaved like a gentleman.

There were few if (any objections) to my camcorder at BM. Thousands of people waved and smiled, lots of women struck sexy poses. When taping out on the playa or exploring the camps I was nearly always in costume, so I wasn't just a tourist.

One guy at the Temple might have given me the finger for a second but with all the people and motion out there, I couldn't really tell. One man remarked that because of inconsiderate photographers, his daughter (who had come the year before) had decided not to return. We talked for a while and I assured him that I made a real effort to be respectful of others. The conversation ended on a friendly note. That's about it for the negatives I was aware of.

Eventually I read the BM photo guidelines and noted a key word, "recognizable". "You must ask for permission before photographing or filming any individual participant who might be recognizable." http://www.burningman.com/press/pressRa ... guidelines. This still didn't affect me much though, because I was still more into capturing the overall scene than individuals. For closer shots, I did ask though.

For sure, there's a lot of gray area here. When exactly is a person recognizable, or not? Hard to say. The people in those 5 links that DaShiv posted might or not be, I'm not sure.

I love having the video I shot, it's been great viewing it after getting home, and finally I can give friends and family a small clue what it's really like.

The BM guidelines are helpful but I guess the best rule is the Golden Rule, simple common sense. Respect people's privacy, respect personal moments and situations, it's not rocket science. As for the creeps with the big lenses at Critical Tits, I bet a little playa dust, or at least a hint of it, would make them scatter real fast.

The Bass
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Post by The Bass » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:26 am

DaShiv wrote:Take a look at the following images from our image gallery:

image1
image2
image3
image4
image5

Was verbal consent received from every single subject in those photos prior to the photos being taken? Were these photos "opted in"?
da shiv -

i want to thank you for the thoughfulness and seriousness of your post(s) - again, you are clearly one of the good guys.

and i'm glad you've raised some hypothetical examples, because it allows us to be specific about where we see the lines.

your five examples are

1. group of stiltwalkers
2. kids on trampoline
3. 3 people, one in costume
4. broad center camp shot
5. lamplighters on parade

what should the photographer have done in each case?

my answers for the first 4:

1. get consent from at least one stiltwalker on behalf of their group
2. get permission from a parent/guardian on behalf of the other parents/guardians
3. get permission from all three people - this is a no-brainer to me
4. no problem, no consent needed - it's a very wide shot, individuals aren't singled out

I absolutely agree that it's not just about the rules as printed (although if you'd like exact language, I did quote the relevant section in my prior post). It is definitely a matter of trying to make a good-faith effort to think about what the other people involved might want. Or as you put it, not being an ass-hat!

Now, the slightly tricky one is the lamplighters parade.

On the surface, it's a close parallel to CT -- in a narrowly definitional sense. But once you apply the criterion of trying to think about what the subject(s) might want, I think it's actually pretty easy to distinguish between the two cases.

I am pretty sure that the lamplighters would tell you to go ahead and film them - that by walking around in costumes on parade, they are effectively granting consent.

Yet I don't think that most CT participants would say the same thing. And I think a reasonable Burner knows this damned well.

As Key Man says, it's obvious that even great standards of distance and privacy -- and the burden of obtaining consent -- should apply to nudity. Again, I think a reasonable burner understands and agrees to this.

Can we agree on the following?

"Don't take pictures of naked people without their permission, even if there are a lot of them!"

Again, thanks for a thoughtful and illuminating discussion.

Kinetic IV
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Post by Kinetic IV » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:54 am

After re-reading all of this I think I'll avoid CT in the future, just ignore it all together. It's not worth the hassle and as a single guy if I pass in it's general direction and happen to look that way I could be branded a voyeur or perv, and if I happen to have my camera with me look out, I'm a tit ogling psychopath. It's not worth it...at 4 pm on Fridays from now on I'll either stay in camp or go look at the art way out in the deep playa or something. It's better to do that than put up with all this bullshit, and if you look it over it really is bullshit. And I say that because now it violates one of the unwritten rules of Burning Man which is you don't fuck with someone else's experience. When it hits that point I want nothing more to do with it. Instead of an empowering event for the women it's become a general nuisance for everyone. And I want no part of it. </soapbox>

(Another petty gripe...I hope you don't need to get somewhere or you're trying to flag down a Ranger / EMS when all those riders are coming through. If you need to cross their path common courtesy doesn't exist.)
K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!

HappyCJ
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Don't avoid... participate!

Post by HappyCJ » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:14 am

I love the conversation The Shiv and The Bass are having!!! Considerate, thoughtful discourse in an online medium?!?!? Amazing...

However, I think The Bass hit on a key thing in her last post... You made the point that the Lamplighters Parade is a *parade*, and therefore they should expect to be photographed, and would probably give consent for that same reason.

CT can be defined in the same exact way. It is a parade. It is a spectacle that you can choose to take part in, or not. Therefore, by the "Lamplighters logic" you use above, specific permission of everyone in the shot may not be required. (Plus, this logic has the additional effect of still having to ask permission from any smaller group of people.)

It's funny... I was ENTIRELY on your side in the whole conversation until that last post, where I saw that inconsistency. Now I am on The Shiv's side, as far as CT is concerned: CT is a spectacle that you choose to take part in, and by choosing to be a part of the spectacle you implicitly give people the right to photograph you during the spectacle.


I also wanted to respond to Kinetic IV's post where he says he's just going to avoid CT next year because he is a single straight guy and it is just too much emotional hassle.

I think this is the wrong way to go about it. This is Burning Man. The point is to be a participant, and not a spectator.

I am a straight guy who is bonkers for the female form - in all its forms - and who not only supports CT because of the feel-good empowering aspect of it, but for the titillation as well. Yes, naked and topless women turn me on, and I am not afraid to say it out loud.

However, instead of being a lech and a tourist and just standing around passively watching it all go by, I am going to participate next year. I am going to be a chauffeur.

Several of the women in my camp rode as passengers on multi-person bikes, and they had a MUCH better time than the women who had to worry about controlling their vehicle, avoiding other women, missing the sights along the way, etc.

So I am going to participate - after all, that IS the point of Burning Man - and I am going to make the event better through my own efforts.

Will there still be pervs touristing around the edge of the event with cameras? Sure! But their photos will include a fat hairy guy dressed as a wolf flipping them off.

.... just tryin' to do my part...

- CJHappy

Kinetic IV
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Post by Kinetic IV » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:58 am

I was just getting frustrated with the whole thing and I posted using the "fire the cannons, clear the deck" approach. Really I'd like to do something to help too. And yeah, I do like to look, I'm a guy and that's just how it is. But what can I do that would make a tangible difference? I don't know enough people out there to really get involved with this, even if I wanted to chauffeur....I'd gladly get on a tandem bike and take someone around for the parade. I'd like to do a lot of things to help even if it meant standing there as a guardian after the event to let them have some privacy...but instead I get stuck sitting there in the crowd watching some pervs stand there drooling while locking their viewfinders on all the tits. I just don't know what to do...but I'd like to do something.

I'll take my frustrations and go shut up now. Before I do.... yes, I go to Burning Man to participate, not to spectate. I have 51 weeks of the year where I can be a spectator. So if anyone can offer suggestions on how I can get involved and do something that would really help, PM me or post something.
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Post by CatNipCT » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:02 pm

I've been camping with the hosts of Critical Tits for 7 years now. Critical Tits is a liberating march displaying sisterhood and acceptance and ownership of our bodies and our individual sexuality. It is not a big tit show for the over abundance of perverted dudes at BM. It allows a safe space where women of all shapes, sizes, ages and colors can feel like the beautiful human beings that we are without being considered as sex objects. For at least 3 years we even had an elderly woman ride with us in her electric wheelchair!

To encourage this mission of CT, our camp and friends have gotten savvy, yet the papperazzi don't seem to fade away. We have altered the route, shown up at the man at 4 and taken off right away, asked watching men to check for another guy's registration tag if he's filming us, and come up with catchy chants like, "down with your cameras, down with your pants. Everyone do the goddess dance!" I absolutely love the idea of having male guardians on the sides of the ride. If the majority of the men create the vibe the CT ride is all about, then the gawking-toting-long-lensed guys will feel like the creeps that they are and hopefully put their cameras down. Just like the burning of the temple is a known solemn affair, we can all help to create the energy we want during the ride.

We have discussed the use of water guns in the past. Most women felt that we don't want to ruin our energy with a violent vibe, and possibly ruin someone's camera. But if women are having a rotten time out there because of the disrespectful men, or are not even going on the ride because of them, then maybe we should re-think this one. Perhaps a water gun should be used sparingly and only for the most obvious jerks. Thoughts?

HappyCJ
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Post by HappyCJ » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:26 pm

CatNipCT wrote:Perhaps a water gun should be used sparingly and only for the most obvious jerks. Thoughts?
The amount of water put out by a water gun will not adversely effect any camera. I have worked with pro photographers for years and years and years, and their only real concern is saturation (dropping it in water) and salt water.

If a person with a camera gets upset by a little squirt from a water pistol, then they are only reinforcing the obvious fact that they are a prat.

In fact, if next year EVERY CT rider has a water pistol, and uses it frequently and liberally, maybe it will have a long-term good effect! ("Dude, let's go see the CT ride, but don't bring your camera! It'll get wet!")

This could be a LOT of fun next year....!

- CJHappy

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unjonharley
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Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:35 pm

I do not like being sprayed. If you spray me I might knock you off your bike. You have no right to spray any one. This thread is about starting a fight. If you have people inforcing "your made up" rule. Some one is going to get hurt. In 04 A admitted bull dike ramed a guy she though was filming CT. He was in fact ajusting his camera strap. I said (on this board) at that time. If you ram me, I will slap you so hard your nipples will fall off. If you go to the org. and get a rule. Then the rangers will have to inforce it. Fat chance. The state of Or. had a case just like CTs. Some women did the tight sweater stic. The good old boys at the water cooler told her what nice cannons she had. The geeky guy with the thick glasses and bow tie was looking too. He she claimed was lerring at her and demanded he be fired. Cost the start a bndle for senativey clases. As a union rep, I demanded a curtain woman not be allowed on the welding floor. There were 8 hundred men perr shift. Steel moving all over the place. She would strol down to the shop offices wearing those knit dresses. She was a looker. But very dangeress to have on the foor. I was running crane at that time and
could see the mens reaction. Her defence was: They don't have to look. Now ride your bikes with your tits hang out and know there will be pictures taken weather you like it or not. That's the way it is.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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Post by HappyCJ » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:57 pm

Gosh, unjohn... you really missed the entire point, didn't you? Never seen anyone fly so far out in left field so fast! Your skill and speed at flying off the handle is truly unmatched!

If you read the rules....


Nah. Fuck it. No point in bringing myself down to your level. Have fun in your little world. I want no part of it.

- CJHappy

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Post by Kinetic IV » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:59 pm

Strong communities celebrate diversity. </soapbox>
K-IV
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Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:13 pm

HappyCJ wrote:Gosh, unjohn... you really missed the entire point, didn't you? Never seen anyone fly so far out in left field so fast! Your skill and speed at flying off the handle is truly unmatched!

If you read the rules....


Nah. Fuck it. No point in bringing myself down to your level. Have fun in your little world. I want no part of it.

- CJHappy


~
Hmmm rules huh. ?? I did not fy off the andle any where. I just layed out the truth.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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Post by spectabillis » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:46 pm

unjonharley wrote:This thread is about starting a fight.
No, its not.

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Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:31 pm

spectabillis wrote:
unjonharley wrote:This thread is about starting a fight.
No, its not.


~
This thread drift is about assulting people. And If you think people are not going to defend there self, your full of it. By saying any thing different is incoueageing violence. If you care to attack me in anyway, I am able to and will defend myself as any reasonable person would.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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Post by Key Man » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:12 pm

Fortunately, the way that people behave on the playa is much more friendly and open minded than the way they behave on this forum.

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:22 pm

unjonharley wrote:This thread drift is about assulting people. And If you think people are not going to defend there self, your full of it. By saying any thing different is incoueageing violence. If you care to attack me in anyway, I am able to and will defend myself as any reasonable person would.
You see, I completely understand where you are comming from, but I guess my previous post was a poor way of making a point that things are drifting into nasty waters. Poor because I happened to single out one persons comment when there are soooo many others to select from, and when people are in a conflict state they have a tendency to be defensive. I fully expect people to defend themselves, but of course, all this seems to be leading to an escalation.

And if you think I am personally attacking you, thats not my intention. There have been several others I have sent PM's to.

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Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:25 pm

Key Man wrote:Fortunately, the way that people behave on the playa is much more friendly and open minded than the way they behave on this forum.
~
Not if you assult them.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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unjonharley
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Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:40 pm

spectabillis wrote:
unjonharley wrote:This thread drift is about assulting people. And If you think people are not going to defend there self, your full of it. By saying any thing different is incoueageing violence. If you care to attack me in anyway, I am able to and will defend myself as any reasonable person would.
You see, I completely understand where you are comming from, but I guess my previous post was a poor way of making a point that things are drifting into nasty waters. Poor because I happened to single out one persons comment when there are soooo many others to select from, and when people are in a conflict state they have a tendency to be defensive. I fully expect people to defend themselves, but of course, all this seems to be leading to an escalation.

And if you think I am personally attacking you, thats not my intention. There have been several others I have sent PM's to.

~
I was using you, your, I and myself in abroad sence.
.
Personaly I have the best tits at home. Don't need pictures
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Post by Key Man » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:07 pm

[quote="unjonharley"][quote="Key Man"]Fortunately, the way that people behave on the playa is much more friendly and open minded than the way they behave on this forum.[/quote]

~Not if you assult them.[/quote]

"Assaults" are very rare on the playa, but common here. Like I said, people are better behaved on the playa.

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Post by unjonharley » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:27 am

Key Man wrote:
unjonharley wrote:
Key Man wrote:Fortunately, the way that people behave on the playa is much more friendly and open minded than the way they behave on this forum.
~Not if you assult them.
"Assaults" are very rare on the playa, but common here. Like I said, people are better behaved on the playa.


~
Assult as in water cannons, raming, inforcing through cofrontaion or other means of inhibiting. These have all been suggsted in this thread. Any of which could result in batterie from eather party if acted on.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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Post by unjonharley » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:48 am

I might suggest that a large (make that a very large) percent of the ladies keep there shirts on. That is if you want to keep keep the fantasia with your SO. Some appear about as tasteful as a old pot bellied man in a shirt with no pants. Most of the pretty ladies this year were in make up and costum.
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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:49 am

unjonharley wrote:Assult as in water cannons, raming, inforcing through cofrontaion or other means of inhibiting. These have all been suggsted in this thread. Any of which could result in batterie from eather party if acted on.
Image

ASSAULT! ASSAULT! ASSAULT! Call the rangers! Kick them out!

blyslv
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Re: Critical Tits photography

Post by blyslv » Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:52 pm

Blonde Iguana wrote:. I was picking sequins and spirit gum off my boobs for at least a couple days afterwards.
I'm sure the volunteers to stay after us to clean up managed to get all the ones that fell off! Thanks for sharing!

Why do people get pissed off when humans act according to their nature?
Fight for the fifth freedom!

spectabillis
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Re: Critical Tits photography

Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:21 pm

blyslv wrote:Why do people get pissed off when humans act according to their nature?
because its human nature to get pissed off?

got me.

blyslv
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Post by blyslv » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:22 pm

AND ANOTHER THING!

Next year (if I go) I'm bringing a hand mirror and holding it front of photographers at critical tits. Or maybe just a peice of cardboard covered withtin foil, so there is no broken glass. Sorry if this harshs your buzz DaShiv, becasue I know that there are some good respectful photogs out there. But for the most part, people with cameras are invading privacy and it sucks.
Fight for the fifth freedom!

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guardians

Post by Lady V » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:50 pm

Hmmm... this thread sure has been active... :) I loved the post by CatNipCT-- thank you!!

If I were standing by the side (which I wouldn't be, really) and saw a man yelling something disrespectful or taking one of those kinds of pictures, I would say, 'don't diminish yourself in that way' because such a man only brings himself down, not the women. It is just so painful to watch men behave like that, because it makes it impossible for me to respect them. And it hurts.

The idea I've liked best is the guardian idea. It reminds me of what is done in some cultures where the elder (not older, necessarily!) men teach the other men ways to show respect and to cherish the feminine. I love the idea of men lining the route turning, kneeling down and clapping in unison in the direction the women are riding as they pass. :)

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Re: Critical Tits photography

Post by Blonde Iguana » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:19 am

blyslv wrote:
Blonde Iguana wrote:. I was picking sequins and spirit gum off my boobs for at least a couple days afterwards.
I'm sure the volunteers to stay after us to clean up managed to get all the ones that fell off! Thanks for sharing!
Wow, were you following me around counting the sequins that fell off my boobs? Allow me to defend my boob decor - I glued maybe 30 sequins to my boobs and not a single one fell off - in fact, they peeled off very reluctantly, leaving little red spots from the adhesive, and I disposed of them in a trash bag...so rest easy, my big day of boob freedom did not contribute to the MOOP factor.

Interesting how this thread has drifted. I don't think my initial post on the CT/photography topic lambasted men who photograph the parade. It's very nice if the 1000 or so women who are trusting the masculine contingent enough to expose their soft bits to them are treated with respect, but hey, it's a parade - photograph away if impressions and fond memories aren't enough for you. I was mainly perturbed by the solitary, camera-toting men who wander through the PRE-parade gathering photographing women. Slinking around, heads a-swiveling, looking for boobs to photograph before the parade has even started. It's creepy.

blyslv
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Re: Critical Tits photography

Post by blyslv » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:24 am

Blonde Iguana wrote:I was mainly perturbed by the solitary, camera-toting men who wander through the PRE-parade gathering photographing women. Slinking around, heads a-swiveling, looking for boobs to photograph before the parade has even started. It's creepy.
You're right, it is creepy. Not all men are assholes, neither are all women.

I have nothing else to say.
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gyre
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Out of Uniform

Post by gyre » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:41 pm

To all those who say that anyone who isn't in a raver costume is out of uniform and a tourist and not a participant-
My contempt for you is boundless, you free spirits.
I haven't obeyed a dress code since I was ten years old.
Show me the one in the Survival Guide so I can ignore it too.


As for the parade, I didn't go. It was burning man. There were things to do.

A female friend asked me about nudes when I got back.
I told her there were beautiful naked people everywhere.
But I didn't have any photos. I hadn't thought about it.
A good nude takes time to shoot. And it was burning man.
There were things to see.
"Everything is more wonderful when you do it with a car, don't you think?"
-girl by the fire, watching a tree moved by car bumper in the bonfire

It would be a shame if I had to resort to self-deception to preserve my faith in objective reality.

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