FBI at BM?

carnitas · Post by **carnitas** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:37 pm

Anyone encounter the FBI this year? Here's what happened to us:

After a neighbor was busted for posession of pot, my campmate V. spotted a woman taking photos of everyone in the adjoining camps, including everyone visible in our camp (I was asleep in my tent during all this). V. asked the photographer what was going on, and the woman identified herself as being with the FBI. She said this was pretty routine and that the images would be sent to a higher-up who would decide how to follow up.

Am sorry I wasn't awake when this happened - I would have asked to see ID and refused to be photographed. On second thought, maybe this is a good thing - I might still be in jail had I encountered this sort of silliness personally.

But really, WTF? The government has it together enough to track the temporary neighbors of a (gasp) pot smoker, but it can't track a category 5 hurricane?

Anyone else have a run-in with the feds?

mars · Post by **mars** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:43 am

Have you considered it might have been a joke? Do you really think the FBI would have identified themselves as such?

golgotha-a-go-go · Post by **golgotha-a-go-go** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:01 am

I don't think it was a joke. I saw it all go down from the camp across the street. The two plainclothes were riding with the Sherrifs. All of us were photographed from a distance. I was pretty incensed.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:18 am

oh great

Blue Jester · Post by **Blue Jester** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:45 am

Don't tell me no one saw all the Black Helicopters.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:53 am

Black helicopters? No way. They were bold enough this year to fly around in US Navy helos.
And isn't there a flight restriction over the event...shouldn't the military pilots have to respect that? Considering the fact that all the spares are being shipped overseas and maintenance quality is being diminished I didn't exactly like having a flying "bucket of junk" flying over me like that. Stay outside the trash fence so if your helo has mechanical problems you don't kill me too.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:23 am

golgotha-a-go-go wrote:I don't think it was a joke. I saw it all go down from the camp across the street. The two plainclothes were riding with the Sherrifs. All of us were photographed from a distance. I was pretty incensed.

They were probably just "collecting evidence" for a possible or probable arrest.
There was one poster on the BLM thread who had his artifacts photographed as well. They would only use such "evidence" if the case went to court. Or they could scan the high res images for something suspicious later I suppose.

But, the playa is in such flux and the costumes so nutty that identifcation would be nearly impossible. The usefulness of such photos has to be very narrow.

Gently insist on your right to privacy if someone does come snapping photos of your camp from closer than the nearest street.

As for the FBI issue, looks like they were doing some cooperative work and perhaps even cooperation exercises for the real world. BM is a great laboratory in which to police a bunch of gentle, gazelle-like freaks.

This is all conjecture, by they way. con un grano salis.

However, if you try to think like them, you can come to some fairly reasonable conjectures. The objective has to be to at least create the appearance of the event being policed somewhat; to close down the flagrant displays of lawlessness, and to thwart public displays of drug commerce.
They have to look like they are doing a job, even if they are there mostly to have a good time, check out some nutty art, and oggle chicks.

Insist on your privacy and they may be inclined to go elsewhere.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:39 pm

As for the FBI issue, looks like they were doing some cooperative work and perhaps even cooperation exercises for the real world. BM is a great laboratory in which to police a bunch of gentle, gazelle-like freaks.

This is all conjecture, by they way. con un grano salis.

Love how sheer rumor mongering often gets couched under the rubric of 'conjecture' or 'speculation' so's to spin it into a more personal version of concern rather than the ill-informed idiocy that it often represents. The unfortunate thing about such shit is that a lie is usually half way around the world before truth has the chance to get it's fucking socks on.

There were NO FBI personnel on the playa this year.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:49 pm

And like the Rangers will know every Fed that's on the playa? Seriously Badger, I know you're a Ranger but there's no way you can stand there and say that with absolute certainty. If they operated on the playa the last thing they would do is broadcast to anyone what's going on.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:59 pm

fair enough bagd my man,

con un grano salis. So what if there were FBI?

The witness who saw cops photographing their things strikes me as reasonable, and conjecture would follow that they were collecting evidence should they need it at a trial. Who cares what bureau the cops work for. Maybe it was DEA?
or the jo mama division.

con un grano salis....or maybe a grain of playa dust.

Furthermore, I don't need or want to give a speech on epistemology here, but "conjecture" is no attempt to couch anything in any form other than mere speculation without hope of verification. call it rumour mongering with no hope or need of the dignity of verity of verifiability, but please don't drum it up to be more than speculation so as to satisfy your disgust. Save that for those that pass off conjecture as empirical fact.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:24 pm

Blue Jester wrote:Don't tell me no one saw all the Black Helicopters.

pre or post self-medication?

Major Roosevelt · Post by **Major Roosevelt** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:39 pm

First, Apokiliptika spotted the black helicopters I think on Tuesday (it was after the first big dust storm)....but they were there. We had great fun since so many posts during the months leading up to BM there were allusions to a sneak attack by black helicopters. They were blackhawks to be exact. Not a rumor.

Second, I truly hope that part of this thread (and the rumors) sprang from a very, very innovative costume worn by one of our kampmates. He had a convincing ATF outfit (capped by a hat) and acted very "in your face" anywhere he went.

Anyone he confronted quickly figured out he wasn't for real but I noticed folks slinking off in various directions from the kamps he visited so I have to believe at least some people fell for it.

FBI? ATF? Who knows....

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:20 pm

I've got a possible explanation for the Blackhawks...we saw them too, and a neighbor of ours who claimed some military nah-nah-nah told us that the USAServices is absolutely fascinated by the amazing ability of BRC citizens to bivouac as quickly as we do. In, up, down, out and with little residue.

If that's the case, I hope they find all they like. They'll still never get it. We have enthusiasm and joy on our side.

Major Roosevelt · Post by **Major Roosevelt** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:26 pm

Fat SAM wrote:...the USAServices is absolutely fascinated by the amazing ability of BRC citizens to bivouac as quickly as we do. In, up, down, out and with little residue.

Wow!!! Great angle. Have you seen the aerial photos of BM over the years. It really is amazing stuff. 20, 30 or more thousand people arriving in a very brief period and then disappearing nearly without a trace...we/you (I'm too new to take credit) should be studied. As much "kaos" as is really on the ground from the air it looks like artwork.

I might call my special forces friends and recommend a visit for next year. Maybe I can hitch a ride!!

Bully!!

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:29 pm

Man, that helo is turning so sharp it's got a white halo around it. That's some damn good flying going on there...

Major Roosevelt · Post by **Major Roosevelt** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:34 pm

Hey, if I was good at this stuff, I wouldn't be posting on Eplaya at 1130EST......

Major Roosevelt · Post by **Major Roosevelt** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:35 pm

Maybe its a layer of playa dust surrounding the moving vehicle???...

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:36 pm

The pilot must have spotted Krispy Kreme and is making a hard turn to take a closer look. Can't say that I blame him one bit either.

carnitas · Post by **carnitas** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:15 pm

Nope, this wasn't a joke as far as I could tell. V's pretty sharp (being in AA, she doesn't do any drugs or booze). If someone was going to pose as a member of the FBI, wouldn't they do it up more? You know, for laughs? This person was apparently pretty subtle. And let's not forget that there were actually [i]two [/i]drug busts and a passel of loud Canadians (eek! foreigners!) at camps next to us that they were photographing as well.

I mean, anything is possible, which I why I asked the question in the first place--it could have been a joke or misunderstanding. I'm wondering if anybody else had a run-in.

For the record, I'm not a paranoid person or conspiracy theorist. Despite being present at many a protest, and having gone on record often in opposition to various governmental policies, I am pretty sure I don't have a gov't record--I am so small potatoes--and I don't doubt that the right guys went to jail for the assasination of JFK and MLK. That said, the entire state of Utah might be run by a conspiracy, however, but that's another thread entirely.

Hey Golgotha - were you on Ego? Across from CampAss?

carnitas

Major Roosevelt · Post by **Major Roosevelt** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:50 pm

carnitas wrote:For the record, I'm not a paranoid person or conspiracy theorist....I am pretty sure I don't have a gov't record....

Oh....you have a record....trust me....

This was something I setup before my administration ended nearly 100 years ago. We kept good tabs then and even better tabs now.

Blackrock Lover · Post by **Blackrock Lover** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:29 pm

The FBI...he he he....

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:53 am

Or could have been a celebrity hiding out, but I don't think so.
Look for unneccesary facial protection like a scarf when there's no wind. Goggles can be hard to take on and off so that's not so reliable. Look for someone watching everything differently from everyone else. Someone without any odd affectations or clothing. Someone who moves like a deputy sheriff. Someone without a stupid grin, especially when engaged. Consider it a parlor game. This is only good for spotting amateurs- local police going plainclothes.
You won't spot a good undercover person usually. Don't assume you will.
I met and photographed some of our local law enforcement. They seemed interested in real law enforcement, not drug nonsense and, after all it's not boring at the burn. Think of how boring it must be the rest of the year for them. If there's theft or violence out here it might be handy to have an official out among us, although thieves would probably be amazed how many burners are capable of making them feel...uncomfortable.
If cops are there to make trouble, they are not welcome. Feel free to go ahead of them politely announcing their presence. Photograph them. A lot can be done with an unwelcome presence. But use your best judgement. It doesn't seem like harassment was a priority. And I don't think Nevada would like the burn moved to Wyoming.
If harassed, be polite and insist on your rights. Tell them you will sit down with them and wait the hours it will take for a warrant to arrive. Send someone looking for an attorney. There were some very good attorneys at the burn this year. Be polite and file your complaint later. Sometimes that's all you can do. Don't be pressured. You don't have to sign permission for anything. When it comes to the law, safety first.
A bong! Sheeesh. Someone clearly has a problem with their career. A bong arrest has to look good. What an idiot!

Blackrock Lover · Post by **Blackrock Lover** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:26 pm

I would suggest not going forth and freely announcing there presence. It could easily be interpreted as interference and you could be cited.....sort of like a look out for a criminal episode.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:59 am

Hi Brlover,

Nice smiley face afterthought! Can you say 6 years with a smile?
or "conspiracy to interfere with federal officer." Don't smile for me burning man.

Gyre, you have to be very careful to observe without interfering as I started to say in the BLM citations thread. It is kind of a difficult and delicate situation.

FBI at BM?

FBI at BM?

Not a joke...probably.

Re: Not a joke...probably.

I spotted an undercover agent at the angel burn.