What dou you think is the first thing to think about when wanting to do an art car?
The finished product or the vehicle that will be the foundation?
Also, when planning an art car that you figure will cary a bunch of people, what kind of vehicles do people like to build off of that are not monster big?
Do people prefer the bus, or maybe a work truck frame when it comes to not needing a special set of tools?
And mechanically, what do you think is the most important with the vehicle? suspension? Engine? Transmission? Frame size?
yeah, I got art car on the brain.
Art car groundwork
Art car groundwork
"I gotta have more cowbell"
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer
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dragonfly Jafe
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Either approach can work, start with what you have (usually a near-broken down heap) and go from there or decide what you want in the end and work towards it. If you plan on carrying many people, be sure to be careful when you design any decking to consider tipping over. Also be sure that the chassis can handle the weight - unibody type cars are usually not good for this sort of vehicle once you start removing pieces, nothing beats a work truck with the bed and cab removed or an old bus/van.
One consideration that is usually over-looked is how will you support the vehicle logistically? How will you transport it (drive it or tow it)? What happens if it breaks down while away from camp, how will you tow it back? What kind of tools and spare parts (and repair skills) are needed, because it will surely have some issues. Also, how will you handle passengers (assuming you will carry some)? Will you need extra crew (to control access or walk alongside as escorts)? Can you be sure that they will remain sober while on duty (and for that matter, can you?) For these reasons, it is best to start small. A riding lawn mower makes a cheap base vehicle and can even tow a good size trailer. Golf carts, unless creatively decorated, are just too common, but another possible option.
If you really want to use a street legal vehicle, I strongly recommend that you tow it (as opposed to driving it) to BRC. Also, be sure that it is as reliable as possible and leak-free (and use a "diaper" underneath to catch any drips. Remember that you will be idling for hours at 5mph, so the alternator will not be putting out a full charge and the cooling system will not work very well, consider upgrading these areas (you can change the belt ratio on the alternator if the vehicle is dedicated to being an art vehicle, and add a larger radiator and/or extra cooling fans). It is best if you can chop the body off and start with the chassis/engine. It is then trivial to add a carpeted structure like a bed or flying carpet, etc. Be sure it is very well lit for night use (probably will require a generator unless your vehicle is small or you use all ELwire). A 2nd battery to power the lights with an isolator is also a good idea, so you cannot run your engine battery down.
And be warned, you are heading down a path that leads to madness (and an empty bank account!)
One consideration that is usually over-looked is how will you support the vehicle logistically? How will you transport it (drive it or tow it)? What happens if it breaks down while away from camp, how will you tow it back? What kind of tools and spare parts (and repair skills) are needed, because it will surely have some issues. Also, how will you handle passengers (assuming you will carry some)? Will you need extra crew (to control access or walk alongside as escorts)? Can you be sure that they will remain sober while on duty (and for that matter, can you?) For these reasons, it is best to start small. A riding lawn mower makes a cheap base vehicle and can even tow a good size trailer. Golf carts, unless creatively decorated, are just too common, but another possible option.
If you really want to use a street legal vehicle, I strongly recommend that you tow it (as opposed to driving it) to BRC. Also, be sure that it is as reliable as possible and leak-free (and use a "diaper" underneath to catch any drips. Remember that you will be idling for hours at 5mph, so the alternator will not be putting out a full charge and the cooling system will not work very well, consider upgrading these areas (you can change the belt ratio on the alternator if the vehicle is dedicated to being an art vehicle, and add a larger radiator and/or extra cooling fans). It is best if you can chop the body off and start with the chassis/engine. It is then trivial to add a carpeted structure like a bed or flying carpet, etc. Be sure it is very well lit for night use (probably will require a generator unless your vehicle is small or you use all ELwire). A 2nd battery to power the lights with an isolator is also a good idea, so you cannot run your engine battery down.
And be warned, you are heading down a path that leads to madness (and an empty bank account!)
This from a man who drives around on a giant tongue!dragonfly Jafe wrote:And be warned, you are heading down a path that leads to madness (and an empty bank account!)
I caught the art-vehicle bug from getting rides on that tongue, in fact- (not the first bug I've caught from a strange tongue.) I'm starting SUB-small, with a PEDAL-powered platform...
Howdy From Kalamazoo
There really are no right answers here. Jake made good points about choosing a vehicle, but I did the exact opposite and it's worked out wonderfully. A friend and I took a unibody passenger car, cut the top and back off (after building a frame inside to keep it from warping) and drove it to the event two years in a row. It held up just fine even with a dozen people riding in the back.
I think one major consideration has to be what you're going to do with the thing the other 51 weeks. Where are you going to work on it and store it? Will it ever need to be run or stored on the street? How are you getting it to/from the event? This will answer some of your questions about what your vehicle choices are. It needs to be registered and street legal if the wheels will ever touch the road. Buses and RVs are good bases for big mutants, but they're, well, big! You'd better have the space available for them.
I'd generally recommend spending a little more money for something that's running reliably and matches your requirements rather than taking the first free nonrunning heap you find. It will save you money and frustration in the long run.
I'd say a good engine and transmission are critical as they're the hardest and most expensive to fix when something goes wrong. Suspension is easier to repair and decent parts are plentiful in junkyards.
I think one major consideration has to be what you're going to do with the thing the other 51 weeks. Where are you going to work on it and store it? Will it ever need to be run or stored on the street? How are you getting it to/from the event? This will answer some of your questions about what your vehicle choices are. It needs to be registered and street legal if the wheels will ever touch the road. Buses and RVs are good bases for big mutants, but they're, well, big! You'd better have the space available for them.
I'd generally recommend spending a little more money for something that's running reliably and matches your requirements rather than taking the first free nonrunning heap you find. It will save you money and frustration in the long run.
I'd say a good engine and transmission are critical as they're the hardest and most expensive to fix when something goes wrong. Suspension is easier to repair and decent parts are plentiful in junkyards.
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dragonfly Jafe
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Dork wrote:....Suspension is easier to repair and decent parts are plentiful in junkyards....
Plus you will probably want to beef-up the suspension anyways if you plan on carrying lots of people, maybe even install a 2x4 to eliminate the "give" of the springs to make for a more stable ride. So I agree, Engine & Tranny are most important. And my current vehicle is a unibody car cut down also!
Dork is also right about the other 51 weeks, storing a vehicle on the street generally requires it to be liscenced and most cities have rules about storing vehicles in yards and such. Also, if your neighbors want to be jerks about it, they probably can (all the noise, etc, that goes along with art vehicle construction can be a bit much, especially late at night when you are short on time). Doing this kind of work in a residential neighborhood WILL strain your relations with your neighbors...best is if you have a garage or shop to work in...
Good stuff.
The dream is to bring an art car to the event, and possibly run it in a couple parades throughout the year. The more I think about it the more I realize that it has to be able to haul about 20 people max. I thought about using a small bus chasis or a heavy duty work truck. I also thought about purchasing that from a city auction to hopefully reduce cost and thinking that those vehicles would have regular maintenance.
I'm not sure what kind of decoration would be on it, but I do think that it's vital to have people on the top, almost a parade float kind of thing. have a couch or just a good view. Would love a fire cannon, but thats in the later part of planning.
I do want to start small though. I thought of just a stationwagon as my starting point and going from there, but the more I think about it there seems to be more to do with that kind of a base.
Also am considering the longer golf cart thing, but I get stuck thinking that it's not enough room (hate for people to be left out).
There was the vanagon that looked like a u-boat though that seemed to be moving pretty easilly.
man, sooo much to consider.
The dream is to bring an art car to the event, and possibly run it in a couple parades throughout the year. The more I think about it the more I realize that it has to be able to haul about 20 people max. I thought about using a small bus chasis or a heavy duty work truck. I also thought about purchasing that from a city auction to hopefully reduce cost and thinking that those vehicles would have regular maintenance.
I'm not sure what kind of decoration would be on it, but I do think that it's vital to have people on the top, almost a parade float kind of thing. have a couch or just a good view. Would love a fire cannon, but thats in the later part of planning.
I do want to start small though. I thought of just a stationwagon as my starting point and going from there, but the more I think about it there seems to be more to do with that kind of a base.
Also am considering the longer golf cart thing, but I get stuck thinking that it's not enough room (hate for people to be left out).
There was the vanagon that looked like a u-boat though that seemed to be moving pretty easilly.
man, sooo much to consider.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer
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geekster
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A pickup truck makes a good base of an art car and so do older vans, delivery vans, etc. You can remove the pickup bed (cab too, for that matter) and build what you want on the frame easier than a car most of the time. As others have pointed out, the best base to build from depends on what you want to build.
One problem that has bugged both art cars I worked with in the past two years have been electrical problems. As others have pointed out, the alternator isn't going to be running at the design cruise speed so putting a smaller diameter pulley on the alternator will spin it faster at lower speed. The cooling system was also mentioned. Not only will the water pump not be turning as fast as it would be a road speed, but the playa is at 4,000 feet altitude. For every thousand feed of altitude (up to a point) figure a rule of thumb loss of 10% efficiency for radiators and air cooled engines. If you can speed up the fan water pump with a smaller pulley, do so. A larger pulley on the engine crankshaft does the same thing as a smaller pulley on the accessories.
As for the electrical system, if you are not particularly experianced at electrical work, get someone who is to help you. Doing the electrical stuff correctly the first time can save you *much* grief later. Starting with a vehicle that isn't a total hack job behind the dash will help you.
How much suspension work you need to do is going to depend on the vehicle you start with and what you do to it. If the finished art car ends up being significantly lighter than the original vehicle or if the weight of all the people and the new work still is within the rating for the existing suspension, you might not need to do anything at all. Different shocks might help as might stiffer springs but you might not need them at all.
Having a small generator, say one of the little quiet Honday 1000watt units is always a plus. If nothing else, you can run it in "battery charger" mode and put it across your batteries for lighting, etc.
As was pointed out, lighting is important at night. Imagine someone passed out on the playa covered in dust. You don't want to run over them if you can help it. Make sure the driver has a CLEAR view of the playa in front of them and it is well lit. We had two different sets, one set of floods low, almost like fog lights and another set high. The low set (lower than the normal headlights) were good at making objects easier to see on the playa (abandoned bikes, people, etc) because they caused a longer shadow to be cast.
Having a switch in the passenger section manned by a campmate or some other trusted soul that connects to a lamp in the cab or driver's panel is a good idea too. When things are in an unsafe state (people getting on/off, someone has fallen, whatever) the switch can be flipped to signal the driver to stop even if things are too loud to hear. Person flips a switch, big red light comes on, driver stops immediately.
How much modification is also going to depend on if you plan to drive or tow it. If you are going to tow it, consider locating a place to store it someplace close to the event, if that is at all feasable.
One problem that has bugged both art cars I worked with in the past two years have been electrical problems. As others have pointed out, the alternator isn't going to be running at the design cruise speed so putting a smaller diameter pulley on the alternator will spin it faster at lower speed. The cooling system was also mentioned. Not only will the water pump not be turning as fast as it would be a road speed, but the playa is at 4,000 feet altitude. For every thousand feed of altitude (up to a point) figure a rule of thumb loss of 10% efficiency for radiators and air cooled engines. If you can speed up the fan water pump with a smaller pulley, do so. A larger pulley on the engine crankshaft does the same thing as a smaller pulley on the accessories.
As for the electrical system, if you are not particularly experianced at electrical work, get someone who is to help you. Doing the electrical stuff correctly the first time can save you *much* grief later. Starting with a vehicle that isn't a total hack job behind the dash will help you.
How much suspension work you need to do is going to depend on the vehicle you start with and what you do to it. If the finished art car ends up being significantly lighter than the original vehicle or if the weight of all the people and the new work still is within the rating for the existing suspension, you might not need to do anything at all. Different shocks might help as might stiffer springs but you might not need them at all.
Having a small generator, say one of the little quiet Honday 1000watt units is always a plus. If nothing else, you can run it in "battery charger" mode and put it across your batteries for lighting, etc.
As was pointed out, lighting is important at night. Imagine someone passed out on the playa covered in dust. You don't want to run over them if you can help it. Make sure the driver has a CLEAR view of the playa in front of them and it is well lit. We had two different sets, one set of floods low, almost like fog lights and another set high. The low set (lower than the normal headlights) were good at making objects easier to see on the playa (abandoned bikes, people, etc) because they caused a longer shadow to be cast.
Having a switch in the passenger section manned by a campmate or some other trusted soul that connects to a lamp in the cab or driver's panel is a good idea too. When things are in an unsafe state (people getting on/off, someone has fallen, whatever) the switch can be flipped to signal the driver to stop even if things are too loud to hear. Person flips a switch, big red light comes on, driver stops immediately.
How much modification is also going to depend on if you plan to drive or tow it. If you are going to tow it, consider locating a place to store it someplace close to the event, if that is at all feasable.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
20 people would definitely be pushing it for a passenger car. I'm sure someone out there has gotten away with it, but you might want to stick with something built to handle some weight, like a truck or cargo van.
I would highly recommend coming up with a basic plan for what it will look like before you start cutting.
I would highly recommend coming up with a basic plan for what it will look like before you start cutting.
Thanks for the ideas.
When people are building support cages for say the upper deck, do people go with a lighter yet strong metal like aluminum, or mostly steel. Just thinking weight wise. I understand making the floor of that upper part a grate for those purposes.
A stake-bed truck seems to be a good route to go. Seems like it would need less modification.
When people are building support cages for say the upper deck, do people go with a lighter yet strong metal like aluminum, or mostly steel. Just thinking weight wise. I understand making the floor of that upper part a grate for those purposes.
A stake-bed truck seems to be a good route to go. Seems like it would need less modification.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer
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geekster
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I would use steel. It is heaver but easier for most people to weld. As for an upper deck, be careful not to make it too top heavy, particularly if you are going to tow it on a trailer. If you do make it top heavy and tow it, make sure you secure it to the trailer at points above the suspension rather than at points below the suspension (like the axles). Otherwise that thing could really get rocking and flip the trailer over. Don't rule out a steel supported wood deck either.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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bammarhythm
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So can anybody reccomend a good structural engineer to maybe help us design the frame for a would be gigantimous art car? We are thinking something with alot of structural integrity to hold those 20 people, and also provide support enough to have fold out sides to double, or triple the width at a stop.
That was another thing i was curious about was whether or not the art car veterans here knew much about the possibility of having fold out platforms. this art car would in theory be the size of a bus, with a top level the height of a bus. These platforms would be designed to be out only when stopped by the way.
That was another thing i was curious about was whether or not the art car veterans here knew much about the possibility of having fold out platforms. this art car would in theory be the size of a bus, with a top level the height of a bus. These platforms would be designed to be out only when stopped by the way.
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bammarhythm
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Jbelson are from the same project. I am thinking of going from the ground up with a heavy duty truck(IE old flatbed f350, something like that?) Still kind of playing around with ideas. Still haven't ruled out a long bus and reinforcing the hell out of the roof with a cage. Not really sure. Have been unable to get feedback on tribe from people who know about these things.
One question. We are talking about putting a full sound system, DJ booth, etc... Would we be able to set up an alternator strong enough to power a sound system? could we get away with not having a generator?
One question. We are talking about putting a full sound system, DJ booth, etc... Would we be able to set up an alternator strong enough to power a sound system? could we get away with not having a generator?
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unjonharley
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geekster
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There are lots of possibilities for alternators. You can use heavy duty systems like ambulances have, dual 200+ amp alternators.
I know where there is a F750 flatbed diesel for sale that was at Burning Man in 03 and 04. Drop down sides that make for a bigger deck area and a deck over the cab for bandstand/stripper pole, or your DJ area. I can point you to some pictures of it if you like. I don't know what they are asking for it but in it's current state it is road legal and was driven to Burning Man and back last year.
An example of some heavy duty Ford alternators can be found here:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/Ford_3G.htm
and here
http://www.alternatorparts.com/dual_rec ... g_ford.htm
For GM here:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/Extreme% ... 20type.htm
So yeah, you can get enough alternator to run things BUT ... one of those quiet Honda generators burns less fuel and is quieter than the vehicle engine and probably costs less than two of those extreme alternators.
I know where there is a F750 flatbed diesel for sale that was at Burning Man in 03 and 04. Drop down sides that make for a bigger deck area and a deck over the cab for bandstand/stripper pole, or your DJ area. I can point you to some pictures of it if you like. I don't know what they are asking for it but in it's current state it is road legal and was driven to Burning Man and back last year.
An example of some heavy duty Ford alternators can be found here:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/Ford_3G.htm
and here
http://www.alternatorparts.com/dual_rec ... g_ford.htm
For GM here:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/Extreme% ... 20type.htm
So yeah, you can get enough alternator to run things BUT ... one of those quiet Honda generators burns less fuel and is quieter than the vehicle engine and probably costs less than two of those extreme alternators.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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bammarhythm
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geekster
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ALso note that there is a rig also sold for ambulances that will throttle up the idle on a vehicle when the voltage drops automatically. Ambulances are really hard on electrical with all the lighting and equipment. Getting an old ambulance might be the way to go if the electrical system is in good shape. Something like a F350 chassis.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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Mister Jellyfish Mister
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I just decomissioned (read: took to the dump) the mini-tractor part of my art car. Got two good days out of it and I had such a great burn I did not miss it at all. Left the trailer part in front of our camp all lit up as a chill space and that was fine.
If you've got more time than sense, you can check out the archive thread with some of the beginning lessons I learned as a first timer at:
http://www.mutantvehicle.com/archive.htm
One thing I would have done different is consider how it looks from really far away. I admire simple, single concepts like Jafe's tongue or Mr. Fixit's Big Giant Head because you see them from accross the playa and they look so odd, you don't have to figure out the art of them or have it explained to you.
Ditto on the empty bank account, boys.
If you've got more time than sense, you can check out the archive thread with some of the beginning lessons I learned as a first timer at:
http://www.mutantvehicle.com/archive.htm
One thing I would have done different is consider how it looks from really far away. I admire simple, single concepts like Jafe's tongue or Mr. Fixit's Big Giant Head because you see them from accross the playa and they look so odd, you don't have to figure out the art of them or have it explained to you.
Ditto on the empty bank account, boys.
Art cred: Georgie Boy 2011: www.mutantvehicle.com/georgie_boy.htm ; Ein Hammer 2010; Fluffer 2009; Zsu Zsu 2008; U-Me 2007; Mantis 2006; MiniMan and Pikes Of Paranoia 2005; Time Machine Mutant Vehicle 2004. www.MutantVehicle.com
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Mister Jellyfish Mister
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It's the way that my wallet's vast emptyness fails to disrupt the lay of my kilt-pleats....I'm torn between Pennypinching Scot Stereotype and Chief Engineer Scot(Scott) Stereotype, and reduced to gazing hungrily at the contents of the garage....Now the playabike's sweating, and the pushmower's crossing its handlebars, trying to cover its engine.....Ochhhhh- Wha' a bonny Arrrtt Carrr ye'd maik, ma' wee bairrrrns....Mister Jellyfish Mister wrote:LOL, Robot. Is it the lust in your eyes or the bulge in your wallet?
Howdy From Kalamazoo
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dragonfly Jafe
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As if this was a mere trifle, to be acomplished whilst enjoying a cold coke or toasty hot chocolate. I've seen your garage - it is a good thing that the winters in Michigan are long, because you will need that time and beyond to go through all that stuff! (and maybe finally build that loft...)robotland wrote:....reduced to gazing hungrily at the contents of the garage....
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dragonfly Jafe
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To get back on topic, I am involved in an ongoing art car (well actually 2 now...) My tongue (the car in my Avatar) is pretty much done, although it needs some TLC before next year, and maybe a trailer to haul it on (I plan on building that...) But now i am working on a Bus for next year also. A friend owns it, and has already pimped it out internally. It has the sound system, lights, power, etc inside professionally done. But the outside is just a bus. He was warned that the feeble level of "art" on the outside would not pass next year in '06 (the "art" consisted of a minimal steel framework in the shape of a rocket with rope-lights). So he asked us to help out...
We are going over the specs (max load and current mods basically now) and brainstorming what we want it to look like. For that we have a simple picture of a bus that we print out as a grey-tone, then sketch over that. I usually start with pencil showing the supports and decking, then start filling in the shape. Sometimes I know what i want it to be when i start, and sometimes I just free-form while watching TV (I have a pile of pre-printed bus pages on my cofee table...) When I get a "good" one (I have 3 so far...) I do a better sketch and post it along with a brief paragraph describing the idea and any "special" features like flaming stuff or cool bits. Then the rest of the design gang comment, and innovate, and in a few months - Voila! You have a well thought out design and (hopefully) a vehicle in decent condition that was specially selected to fit the design (or visa-versa)
Our idea will not be fleshed out until New Years...then a few months to draw it up, buy the materials, and create a web-site, and once the weather warms up begin building. The bus is stored near BRC, so we will have to travel down there to do work (probably on the weekends). This is a huge logistical challenge, but we do not want to risk driving the bus the entire way (roughly 600 miles), even though it would probably be cheaper to do that than to drive work crews down several times during the summer.
Most of our ideas involve adding "receiver mounts" to the chassis under the bus body. These accept heavy-duty steel inserts specially made that support uprights along the front, back, and sides of the bus. This way, we do not have to remove the bus body and it can remain street legal for the other 51 weeks. Once everything is welded & bolted down, it is very solid and strong. Fabric will most likely be the covering, although paneling works well for flat surfaces that need to be painted. One of the biggest challenges is coming up with a lighting plan that is more than merely adequate, and more importantly the power budget / distribution plan (be sure not to draw too much current on any one extension cord or outlet!). You can get a lot of mileage out of sheer coloured fabrics and flood lights or flourescent lights. The more that gets done before you get to BRC, the better it will look.
While designing everything, continually ask yourself how much will this cost, how will it get down there, how will it get back, and what happens if it breaks? Also, could someone in an altered state get hurt or be confused (like sharp edges or no obvious way to exit the vehicle in an emergency)?
Try to involve your "crew" (especially financially, I like to assign small sub-projects like bar decorations or games for each crew member to work on..) in the planning and construction as this helps build motivation and allows some prelimnary weeding out of people who are not really interested. The more eyes that look at the plans, the more "issues" that will be avoided before you get down there.
If you have any questions, ask them here and/or other forums that discuss art cars, and if you are doing something that maybe questionable or new (or that involves fire or anything dangerous), definately consider contacting the DMV early on to begin smoothing out the application (and of course, DO submit an on-line application before the deadline, which is usually at the end of June each summer).
Good luck!
We are going over the specs (max load and current mods basically now) and brainstorming what we want it to look like. For that we have a simple picture of a bus that we print out as a grey-tone, then sketch over that. I usually start with pencil showing the supports and decking, then start filling in the shape. Sometimes I know what i want it to be when i start, and sometimes I just free-form while watching TV (I have a pile of pre-printed bus pages on my cofee table...) When I get a "good" one (I have 3 so far...) I do a better sketch and post it along with a brief paragraph describing the idea and any "special" features like flaming stuff or cool bits. Then the rest of the design gang comment, and innovate, and in a few months - Voila! You have a well thought out design and (hopefully) a vehicle in decent condition that was specially selected to fit the design (or visa-versa)
Our idea will not be fleshed out until New Years...then a few months to draw it up, buy the materials, and create a web-site, and once the weather warms up begin building. The bus is stored near BRC, so we will have to travel down there to do work (probably on the weekends). This is a huge logistical challenge, but we do not want to risk driving the bus the entire way (roughly 600 miles), even though it would probably be cheaper to do that than to drive work crews down several times during the summer.
Most of our ideas involve adding "receiver mounts" to the chassis under the bus body. These accept heavy-duty steel inserts specially made that support uprights along the front, back, and sides of the bus. This way, we do not have to remove the bus body and it can remain street legal for the other 51 weeks. Once everything is welded & bolted down, it is very solid and strong. Fabric will most likely be the covering, although paneling works well for flat surfaces that need to be painted. One of the biggest challenges is coming up with a lighting plan that is more than merely adequate, and more importantly the power budget / distribution plan (be sure not to draw too much current on any one extension cord or outlet!). You can get a lot of mileage out of sheer coloured fabrics and flood lights or flourescent lights. The more that gets done before you get to BRC, the better it will look.
While designing everything, continually ask yourself how much will this cost, how will it get down there, how will it get back, and what happens if it breaks? Also, could someone in an altered state get hurt or be confused (like sharp edges or no obvious way to exit the vehicle in an emergency)?
Try to involve your "crew" (especially financially, I like to assign small sub-projects like bar decorations or games for each crew member to work on..) in the planning and construction as this helps build motivation and allows some prelimnary weeding out of people who are not really interested. The more eyes that look at the plans, the more "issues" that will be avoided before you get down there.
If you have any questions, ask them here and/or other forums that discuss art cars, and if you are doing something that maybe questionable or new (or that involves fire or anything dangerous), definately consider contacting the DMV early on to begin smoothing out the application (and of course, DO submit an on-line application before the deadline, which is usually at the end of June each summer).
Good luck!
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theCryptofishist
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,,psst don't forget to bribe larry harvey so that he chooses a theme that will show off your concept to best effect. I understand that's a pretty hefty bribe.... (to self: what would qualify as an appropriate bribe?)
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
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geekster
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Something interesting might be a "stealth bus". Use the angled surface panels that end up with a look not unlike the F117 or the Sea Shadow. Have them about the same color as playa dust with maybe some large irregular patches of a slightly different shade to break up the outline. Some good sized PVC drain pipe for "weaponry" protruding from "turrets". and some odd pieces of smaller pipe to make strange looking "antennae".
The panels could be made of very lightweight material such as paneling, thin plywood, even poster board on some kind of lightweight skeleton. you end up with the Stealth Playa Destroyer ... Call it Dust Shadow or something. A couple of the "weapons" could be flame throwers or some kind of blank charge (are you allowed to do that?) that just goes boom. Maybe it can lay down a smoke screen too.
Ideas:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... x-pics.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... allery.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 7-pics.htm
Mind you, I am not talking about duplicating any of those designs but talking about using the same "style" of large flat surfaces at angles that if metallic would not reflect a radar signal back to the transmitter. Point being it might look cool and be relatively easy to build with all those flat surfaces.
The panels could be made of very lightweight material such as paneling, thin plywood, even poster board on some kind of lightweight skeleton. you end up with the Stealth Playa Destroyer ... Call it Dust Shadow or something. A couple of the "weapons" could be flame throwers or some kind of blank charge (are you allowed to do that?) that just goes boom. Maybe it can lay down a smoke screen too.
Ideas:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... x-pics.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... allery.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 7-pics.htm
Mind you, I am not talking about duplicating any of those designs but talking about using the same "style" of large flat surfaces at angles that if metallic would not reflect a radar signal back to the transmitter. Point being it might look cool and be relatively easy to build with all those flat surfaces.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
Okay. Next question:
How simple, or hard is it to move driver controls from the cab of the vehicle to say the top?
I saw on Doc's cheschire cat that he was able to drive it from the roof. But I think he was able to switch controls back to the cab when he was driving it outside of the playa.
How simple, or hard is it to move driver controls from the cab of the vehicle to say the top?
I saw on Doc's cheschire cat that he was able to drive it from the roof. But I think he was able to switch controls back to the cab when he was driving it outside of the playa.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer
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dragonfly Jafe
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"...if you have to ask...."
this is not trivial, but can be done (and I think it helps hide the "car" factor). It is easier to make it "permanent" than to jimmy something together. Things to consider; if something brakes/jams, will you loose control? Can anything/anyone snag on a cable (hurting either them or the car)? How will the additions affect your ability to drive the vehicle? Can you fall off the vehicle and loose control of it? Can you kill the engine?
My Tongue, for instance, has the steering, brake, parking brake, gas, kill-switch, and shifter all relocated to the back of the vehicle (along with lighting controls). This was permanently done using linkages and fittings. Substantial welding was required as well as some new cables, etc. Even though it is fairly well done, it still imposes additional complexity on driving; the steering motion is not intuitive, so in times of stress it is possible to turn it the wrong way. Usually you can quickly correct, but in tight quarters (or to the uninitiated driver) this could be an issue. Also, with passengers on the front it becomes more difficult to see - in crowds I creep forward waiting for clearings while standing up. The vehicle was specifically designed to allow this. Lastly, the controls are not marked and the shifter is by feel (you get used to it quickly). I am used to this now, but initially it made for some interesting moments!
this is not trivial, but can be done (and I think it helps hide the "car" factor). It is easier to make it "permanent" than to jimmy something together. Things to consider; if something brakes/jams, will you loose control? Can anything/anyone snag on a cable (hurting either them or the car)? How will the additions affect your ability to drive the vehicle? Can you fall off the vehicle and loose control of it? Can you kill the engine?
My Tongue, for instance, has the steering, brake, parking brake, gas, kill-switch, and shifter all relocated to the back of the vehicle (along with lighting controls). This was permanently done using linkages and fittings. Substantial welding was required as well as some new cables, etc. Even though it is fairly well done, it still imposes additional complexity on driving; the steering motion is not intuitive, so in times of stress it is possible to turn it the wrong way. Usually you can quickly correct, but in tight quarters (or to the uninitiated driver) this could be an issue. Also, with passengers on the front it becomes more difficult to see - in crowds I creep forward waiting for clearings while standing up. The vehicle was specifically designed to allow this. Lastly, the controls are not marked and the shifter is by feel (you get used to it quickly). I am used to this now, but initially it made for some interesting moments!
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer
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HughMungus
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Propane cannon?geekster wrote:A couple of the "weapons" could be flame throwers or some kind of blank charge (are you allowed to do that?) that just goes boom.
Something like this:
http://www.suttonag.com/Zon.html
Just out of curiosity, could one build an art car that he could live in when not driving around? I have this old RV I'm trying to sell and I probably will sell it but I was thinking that if I didn't it would be cool to have a combination art car/living quarters with something on top as the art car part and the bottom part remaining a livable space for when not driving around. In other words, if I have an approved art car, could I drive it around wherever and then park out on the "open" playa when we're ready to go night-night? (I say "open" playa because it seems like there's less and less "open playa" every year based on how surrounded I feel vs. how open one end of BRC is compared to years past.)
It's what you make it.