First time

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:54 pm

I live in canada with my nearest major airport being in edmonton and i was just wondering what would be the best way for me to pack (what to use for shelter) and transport for myself and one other person. i want to use air if possible but can drive if needed. also we will be 17 at the time of the event next year so would that be old enough to go alone? do you need a passport to go from canada to the U.S.? and is the U.S. really as violent as the media makes it seem? and is the no guns rule strictly inforced? (i wont come if it isnt, drunk people with guns scare me)

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:15 pm

also what would a good way for a first timer to participate be? what would be an easy art creation?

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:16 pm

No real weapons, plenty of toy ones. Much of the portrayal of violence is a throwback to the US circa early 1990's when the violent crime rate was twice what it is today. It is now the lowest it has ever been since the early 1970's when they first started officially keeping stats on that sort of thing. We haven't been in the current low crime situation long enough for it to seep in to the culture yet. Our entertainment media still portrays a culture from about 10-20 years ago ... when most of the writers of it were forming their view of the world.

As far as I know, at the current time a passport isn't REQUIRED at this moment but might be very soon. It would be a good idea to at least have some form of official picture ID (drivers license?) and a copy of your birth certificate with a raised seal.

As for being 17 ... you will be able to drive. No drinking as the age for alcohol is 21 in Nevada and, I believe, every other state in the US now. Sexual age of consent in Nevada is 16 for heterosexual sex and 18 for homosexual sex so you are jail bait if you are boy who likes boys and get a little frisky but okay with a girlfriend. Not that I am assuming you will or anything, but age limits vary by state in the US so it is good to know what category you are in if you are sexually active.

As for packing and stuff, I would consider shipping some items ahead by UPS or other shipper then flying to Reno and picking them up there. Look for one of those shipping places such as a "mailboxes, etc." and call the owner on the phone and explain what you are doing. You might find one that will accept and hold your shipment until you arrive to pick it up. Best transport on arrival to Reno is probably rental car. Otherwise, try to find others flying in at about the same time and share transport. Don't forget to pick up your stuff at the mailbox place.

Buy your water/food/last minute items in Reno. There are plenty of supermarkets to choose from.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:20 pm

Of course, you could always ride down with a bunch of other Edmonton burners and share expenses.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:20 pm

Hello Sean,
Being under 18 you would need a parent or guardian over 21 to accompany you. I’m not sure about the passport thing I kind of recall there being a policy change that will require a passport to pass from Canada to the US and vise a versa . The US isn’t as violent as it’s portrayed , in most places anyway. the no guns rule is well enforced, all vehicles are searched for people trying to sneak in, guns, fire works, and maybe other contraband,....

you should read every thing you can on the main Burning man site, along with as much e-playa as you can handle. There are regional organizations in Canada, many have there own web groups, they may not be specific for you area but it’s a place to start to find other Burners in your area. Many of the regional groups also have there own small gatherings .

Welcome

Zule

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:21 pm

DOH! Forgot about that!

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:25 pm

Sean, Did you and your Buddy just see Malcom in the Middle??

Sean, Now you have just under a year the read this website from front to back and re-read it about 5 more times.. All your questions will be answered.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:26 pm

If your thinking about renting a car in Reno, to get you to Black Rock City you’d better do some research many car rental companies won’t rent to younger people , and more than likely a major credit card would be required.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:35 pm

I was assuming the kid has money if he was flying from Alberta but yeah. A 17yo renting a car is going to be tricky but it can be done. It all depends on the responsibility level of the kid involved, I guess. Still, there is the org requirement that under 18 participants have a legal guardian. That sounds like it pretty much settles the issue right there.

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:49 am

actually my math sucks because im 17 now so ill be 18 by next time around so thats not an issue. it said in the guide off the website that renting a car during burning man week is just short of impossible aand some companies refuse to rent that week so would you know of any of the companies that will? also would one of those army 10 x 30 tents be strong enough for the desert conditions?

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:18 pm

Sure, one of those tents will work if they are securely anchored. Lots of rebar stakes. Buy some swimming pool noodles and chop them up to make protective bumpers for the rebar sticking out so someone doesn't hurt themself.

Rental cars will be hard to come by, that is true. You might be able to "cheat" by flying in to Vegas and driving further. Or you might try something like Hertz Equipment Rental or some other rental company that is used to renting stuff that goes to construction sites. Rent a pickup truck. If it comes back dirty in Nevada to a construction rental place, it just means you were working hard for all they know. Make the reservation EARLY. Maybe several months in advance. Hell, you might even find a private individual that has a beater pickup that is sound mechanically that you could borrow/rent from them. Another option is looking for someone that is taking a large vehicle or trailer to the event that has some space and doesn't mind sharing. You might be able to spring for some of the gas and get off cheaper than renting. I would probably make a rental reservation and at the same time start looking for someone who might want to share space. If you find someone, you can always cancel the reservation.

Finding someone that will rent to an 18yo is going to be a challenge, though.

Also, think out of the box a little. Many come from Sacramento, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, or Los Angeles. You might find someone leaving from one of those cities that has room to spare for you and your load so you don't have to fly in to Reno. There are several other options.

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:27 pm

thank you i really appreciate the help. any other good tips not mentioned on the site for a first timer?

RegRad · Post by **RegRad** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:50 pm

Sean- YOU WILL NEED A PASSPORT AS OF JANUARY 2006 to get into the US from Canada!! This is a new thing that is supposed to keep our country safe from terroist trying to enter the US through Canada.... Funny because all they would need to do is walk either east or west of a boarder check point and just walk right into our country through any of the 4000 or so miles of wilderness that seperate our countries!!
Also Sean don't be afriad of our country and the violance you have heard about.... You will not experience that I am sure.
Here is a good web site for you to visit. http://www.albertaburn.com There is talk of combinding all Kanadian Kamps next year into one big Kanada Kamp!

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:01 pm

According to the below links, it may not be required until 2008 for a Canadian to have a passport to travel to the US. But the big problem is for a US citizen coming BACK to the US from Canada. Canada will accept a drivers license for a US citizen (dumb considering all the DMV bribery cases we have had lately with foreign nationals being given US drivers licenses) but that US citizen will require a US passport to get BACk into the US as of December of this year.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/article_765.html

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:29 pm

i guess id better get one to be safe. i miss the good old days when a birth certificate was enough but i guess those days are gone now. also what are the prices in the states for small propane tanks? i want to use some propane equipment but realize its a bad idea and probably illegal to transport the tanks by air. and i really appreciate all the help

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:33 pm

There is talk of combinding all Kanadian Kamps next year into one big Kanada Kamp!

The ground work for the great Canadian take over of the event I assume? Don't worry, I'm with you guys 100%.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:42 pm

That’s it chai lead them into the barbed wire compound and as soon as you run out the gate in the back I’ll slam it .geekster and RegRad can get the front gate behind them..

This will be the best performance piece ever!

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:18 pm

Careful Zule, You obviously haven't been paying attention to the latest trends. Allow me to show to you with this top secret chart that I was able to obtain from Bmorg:

As you can see by this chart the Canadians will have achieved numerical superiority by the 2008 or 2009 event. I'm guessing they might not even have to wait until then, given the fact that there are so many Canadians already living and working in the U.S. posing as Americans.

Oh be afraid, be very afraid.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:55 pm

Okay, so the bacon will change. Besides, I don't care as long as they aren't from Quebec. Those are the french that were so arrogant that the french kicked them out. THATs sayin' somethin!

But I wouldn't mind providing our northern friends with some special accomodations considering how far they have come and all. We should make it very comfy for them. Hotties with palm fronds, bacon, pie, you know, all the good stuff.

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:09 pm

i dont think anyone has to really worry about the evil canadian empire taking over anything. but if you hear that anything is coming from quebec dont ask questions, run as fast as you can and dont look back

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:21 am

i dont think anyone has to really worry about the evil canadian empire taking over anything.

That's exactly what the Canadians want us to think! Well played my new friend from the Great White North, well played.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:41 am

If by small you're talking the 25# tanks (5 gallons) (like the ones on the front of an RV) you can get them empty for $20 american, but filling is gonna be the same as gasoline. Last time I bought the 1# bottles they were like a buck anna half, but that was a whille ago and I bought a bunch of them. Don't know what they cost now... but they're not too pricey.

I'm not sure how you'd get weapons across the border, but why would you need them?? I never knew the US was such a criminal enterprise... well... let me rephrase... I didn't know there was so much violent crime here. OK, in some areas, yeah, but Black Rock City is in what they call Nevada's "cowboy country", so it's not like the inner cities. There *are* some theft issues (rule #1 - lock ylur stuff up) but as for violence? I think criminally violent people would be rather timid around a bunch of admittedly insane people who cherish things such as flamethrowers, massive burning structures, and power tools. >>grins<<

Get a passport. You'll want one not just to get in and out of this "land of the free" but other countries as well.

Don't expect to be able to rent a car - I don't know of a place that will rent to an 18 year old, because of the insurance liability and whatnot... Might be able for a commercial rental, but you may well need a company name and address (don't know this for sure!). Then again, you might be able to set up a rental up there for pickup down there and get around it. They WILL check your drivers license and need a credit card (debit visa cards work) and possibly your proof of insurance from home. (BE SURE your insurance covers rentals, and is valid down here before hand!!!)

bb

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:27 am

I'm not sure how you'd get weapons across the border, but why would you need them??

For the over-throw of the event, DUH???

Oh, and by the way, he was asking if the no gun rule at the event was strictly enforced, he said drunk people with guns scare him.

EvilDustBooger · Post by **EvilDustBooger** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:31 am

Careful.
As soon as you cross the border you will notice a
plethura of drunken, cigarrette smoking gunslingers.

That`s why we have the ATF.

It`s an American thing.

But don`t worry, you are probably safe.

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:42 pm

if i buy liqour in canada (legal age is 18) and bring it to the event can i consume it legally as long as i dont give any out or would that violate Nevada liqour board laws?

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:02 pm

It is illegal for people under age 21 to possess or consume alcohol in Nevada and, as far as I know, all other US states. The Canadians will let you leave the country with it, and US customs will confiscate it.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:49 am

EvilDustBooger wrote:Careful.
As soon as you cross the border you will notice a
plethura of drunken, cigarrette smoking gunslingers.

That`s why we have the ATF.

And the marlburo cowboy.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:22 am

To answer the question -

Sean wrote:if i buy liqour in canada (legal age is 18) and bring it to the event can i consume it legally as long as i dont give any out ?

NO. This would be a violation of state law and you would be subject to a minimum of a healthy fine *and* have your alcohol confiscated and destroyed. In Nevada, you cannot posess alcohol unless you are 21, regardless of what is legal at home.

Just lkike the firearm laws - I shoot competitive pistol matches. I want to go to Canada to do some fishing for a couple weeks. Altho it is legal for me to transport my pistols and ammo here in the states, it's a MONDO no-no to take them into Canada... no matter what the laws are here.

It has nothing to do with giving it away or not - it is illegal for you to posess Alcohol in Nevada until you are 21. Sorry. And Nevada has *no* sense of humor regarding this. (And don't *even* think about drug penalties...)

BTW - it's NOT the same in all states - it all depends on the state (and local) liquor laws. Some states allow you to imbibe at 18, Some only allow wine or "3.2" beer, and in some jurisdictions it's illegal to imbibe at all.

bb

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:01 am

BTW - it's NOT the same in all states - it all depends on the state (and local) liquor laws. Some states allow you to imbibe at 18, Some only allow wine or "3.2" beer, and in some jurisdictions it's illegal to imbibe at all.

While that did used to be the case, not anymore as far as I know. The federal government threatened to cut off highway funds to any state that kept their drinking age under 21. To the best of my knowlege, all states have raised their age to 21. If you know of one currently different, let me know, I'd like to hear about it. Yes, they are *allowed* to set them whereever they like but federal blackmail prevents them from actually doing so.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:03 am

BTW - it's NOT the same in all states - it all depends on the state (and local) liquor laws. Some states allow you to imbibe at 18, Some only allow wine or "3.2" beer, and in some jurisdictions it's illegal to imbibe at all.

http://www.freelancenews.com/lifestyles ... &siteID=33

In 1984, a law was passed that tied federal funding to having the drinking age be 21. As a result, all 50 states have passed legislation to make it illegal for people younger than 21 to purchase or consume alcohol. (some states allow for the consumption of alcohol by people under 21 if they are in a private home and being supervised by a parent or guardian).