Open Containers on Mutant Vehicles?

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:22 pm

I was pulled over this year on my "Tongue" mutated vehicle (really more like waved over). The reason was to check if my passengers had alcohol in their open containers (they did) and if I was impaired (I was not). They had us dump the drinks, then proceeded to engage us in a haggling session for playa schwag (which I think is a bad idea, but I digress). They let me off with a warning (which I took seriously, to the dismay of my future passengers).

Did anyone else experience this? I mean, sure, it is illegal to have open containers in a moving vehicle (unless you are driving an RV or limo and meet certain other requirements). I was lucky to get off with a warning. But never before have I experienced this (I was amazed when I first came that it was "allowed" at all) in 4 years of driving a vehicle.

All of my previous vehicle experience however has been on "bar cars", huge trucks with trailers, or buses (my "Tongue" is much smaller. see my Avatar). I am thinking that maybe such vehicles get more slack due to the RV/limo exemption in the Nevada DMV code. Because clearly there is plenty of open alcohol on those. I helped serve on one this year also, and we drove by plenty of LEO's that looked in to see our stripper pole in action, so I know they saw the open containers also. But the Bus never got stopped....and I never saw any other big vehicle stopped (but saw several smaller vehicles stopped)

Just wondering if anyone has any insights/similar stories, or if I was just unlucky this year...

Steven bradford · Post by **Steven bradford** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:17 pm

This is odd. I wonder what the actual nevada code says on this subject, or if it's a case of people assuming what the law is without actually being able to cite it. Similar to the big Censorship JiffyLube dustup in 2001.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:19 pm

As part of my 2004 crew training manual I looked up the Nevada DMV code...this is what I pulled out as pertinant;

NRS 484.253 Obedience to police officer It is unlawful for any person willfully to fail or refuse to comply with any lawful order or direction of any police officer while he is performing his duties in the enforcement of this chapter.

NRS 484.307 Following too closely The driver of a vehicle shall not follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of such vehicles and the traffic upon and the condition of the highway.

NRS 484.324 Vehicles and bicycles The driver of a motor vehicle shall not (a) Intentionally interfere with the movement of a person lawfully riding a bicycle; or (b) Overtake and pass a person riding a bicycle unless he can do so safely without endangering the person riding the bicycle.

NRS 484.3245 Duties of driver of motor vehicle to pedestrian A driver of a motor vehicle shall: 1. Exercise due care to avoid a collision with a pedestrian; 2. Give an audible warning with the horn of the vehicle if appropriate and when necessary to avoid such a collision; and 3. Exercise proper caution upon observing a pedestrian on or near a marked or unmarked crosswalk.

NRS 484.377 Reckless driving penalty for willful or wanton disregard for safety causing death or substantial bodily harm; additional penalties. It is unlawful for a person to: (a) Drive a vehicle in willful or wanton disregard of the safety of persons or property. (b) Drive a vehicle in an unauthorized speed contest on a public highway.

NRS 484.445 Unattended motor vehicle: Stopping engine, locking ignition and removing key. The person driving or in charge of any motor vehicle, except a commercial vehicle loading or unloading goods shall not permit it to stand unattended without first stopping the engine, locking the ignition and removing the key.

NRS 484.448 Drinking alcoholic beverage while driving motor vehicle unlawful; open container of alcoholic beverage 1. It is unlawful for a person to drink an alcoholic beverage while he is driving or in actual physical control of a motor vehicle upon a highway. 2. Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, it is unlawful for a person to have an open container of an alcoholic beverage within the passenger area of a motor vehicle while the motor vehicle is upon a highway. This subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle which is designed, maintained or used primarily for the transportation of persons for compensation, or to the living quarters of a house coach or house trailer.

NRS 484.475 Boarding or alighting from vehicle; opening door of vehicle. A person shall not board or alight from any vehicle while it is in motion.

NRS 484.477 Motor must be shut off when supply tank being filled with fuel. It shall be unlawful for the driver of any motor vehicle to leave the engine of the motor vehicle running while the supply tank of the vehicle is being filled with gasoline or other motor fuel.

NRS 484.577 Spot lamps, auxiliary lamps and lamps for fog. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two spot lamps and every lighted spot lamp shall be so aimed and used upon approaching another vehicle that no part of the high-intensity portion of the beam will strike the windshield, or any windows, mirror or occupant of a vehicle in use.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:38 pm

NRS 484.448 Drinking alcoholic beverage while driving motor vehicle unlawful; open container of alcoholic beverage 1. It is unlawful for a person to drink an alcoholic beverage while he is driving or in actual physical control of a motor vehicle upon a highway. 2. Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, it is unlawful for a person to have an open container of an alcoholic beverage within the passenger area of a motor vehicle while the motor vehicle is upon a highway.

Well there you go! Were you out on the open playa or on one of the streets of town? Out on the open playa would not constitute being on a "highway", I don't think.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:13 pm

I like the part in NRS 484.377 about "unauthorized speed contest on a public highway." >>grins<< Make sure all your contests of speed on public highways are authorized first!

And the exception for limos and the bus-bars is in NRS 484.448 - If it's a barter bar, then there's compensation, (And since everyone's a participant anyway, which is their "compensation" angle -... ) plus if someone sleeps on it at any time, that takes care of the living quarters exemption.

Now... if there were a hammock on the toungemobile... >grins<

bb

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:27 pm

I like the part in NRS 484.377 about "unauthorized speed contest on a public highway." >>grins<< Make sure all your contests of speed on public highways are authorized first!

Belive it or not you can actually do this in Nevada:

http://www.openroadracing.com/

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:42 pm

Nevada code doesn't matter. You're in BLM Jurisdiction. And while that field office has suggested that the codes be brought within the guidlines of the corresponding state law, that has not yet taken effect.

According to the description, there, though, I could see how a bar car could resemble a private coach more than a personal vehicle, and thus not be subject to the rules, so long as the driver is sober. Of course, it says "it is unlawful for a person to have an open container of an alcoholic beverage within the passenger area of a motor vehicle while the motor vehicle is upon a highway"

Apparently, it's also illegal to jump from a moving vehicle.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:56 pm

What is the DMV definition of "highway"? I was thinking that it is possible that the streets of BRC might fall within that description. But your response has me wondering about something else. Why are the county LEOs there in the first place if they are outside of their jurisdiction?

Also, this was an art car, not a regularly registered motor vehicle. It is a motorized piece of art. Since when do art displays have to abide by automobile regulations? You could have said something like "Yeah, and I don't have a license plate or registration, I have 16 headlights, no tail lights, no turn signals, only the front brakes work, and there is a margarita dispenser in the glove compartment, and none of us has a drivers license!".

I would report this shakedown to the org because I don't think it was legal. I don't believe open container laws apply to things that are not registered as motor vehicles and not operating on a government maintained road.

Steven bradford · Post by **Steven bradford** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:58 pm

So the BLM Reg is???

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 pm

I don't know but I have seen some things on that playa come in on trailers that don't have anything to do with burning man that don't look like any car that would be allowed on the highway. And I have used ATVs on BLM land all over the west.

Hmmm

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-IMPACT/ ... 4/i679.htm

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:02 pm

OOps, that was Colorado, here is Nevada:

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-IMPACT/ ... /i9961.htm

3. Open Container of Alcoholic Beverage

a. You must not carry or store a bottle, can or other receptacle
containing an alcoholic beverage that is open, or has been opened, or
whose seal is broken or the contents of which have been partially
removed, within a motor vehicle on public lands.
b. Each person within a motor vehicle is responsible for complying
with the provision in this section that pertains to carrying an open
container. The operator of a motor vehicle is the person responsible
for complying with the provisions of this section that pertain to the
storage of an open container.
c. This section does not apply to:
i. An open container stored in the trunk of a motor vehicle or, if
a motor vehicle is not equipped with a trunk, to an open container
stored in some other portion of the motor vehicle designed for the
storage of luggage and not normally occupied by or readily accessible
to the operator or passengers; or
ii. An open container stored in the living quarters of a motor home
or camper; or
iii. Unless otherwise prohibited, an open container carried or
stored in a motor vehicle that is parked and the vehicle's occupant(s)
are camping.
iv. For the purpose of paragraph (c)(i) of this section, a utility
compartment or glove compartment is deemed to be readily accessible to
the operator and passengers of a motor vehicle.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:06 pm

So it looks like serving alcohol on an art car may now be illegal on BLM lands. So it looks like the way around this is going to be "art trailers".

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:11 pm

Another Hmmmm ...

Nevada BLM Law Enforcement Issues

In Nevada, about 48 million acres of public land are administered by the BLM. These lands make up 68% of the State. Resources are diverse and range from traditional uses, such as grazing and mining, to the demands and societal problems that accompany a rapid population growth.

The law enforcement staff consists of 4 Special Agents, a State Staff Ranger, 20 Rangers, and a Student Career Experience Program employee. Half the Rangers are stationed in rapidly growing Clark County, associated with the Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area. Visitation there approaches 2 million people each year. The other Rangers work in northern Nevada.

The largest permitted recreational event on BLM-managed lands is the Burning Man event. In 2004, about 35,000 individuals came to the Black Rock Desert, Winnemucca Field Office. Although most participants peacefully displayed artwork and meandered through the tent city, there were 397 incidents and 208 citations in a 10-day period. Half the citations were drug-related.

from http://www.blm.gov/publications/LawEnforcement_text.htm

Bungiti · Post by **Bungiti** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:25 am

When dealing with federal land, the united states code and federal regulations often make state law applicable in federal lands unless there is a specific federal law or regulation on point.

For the national park service regulations regarding traffic offenses see 36 CFR part 4.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/wais ... r4_05.html

I am not sure if these would be the applicable regs. but i could not find regs for the BLM dealing with traffic offenses.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:55 pm

The link I posted above WAS from the BLM. It clearly states that an open container in a motor vehicle is forbidden on BLM land in Nevada. Read it.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:58 am

from their website;

The BLM’S Director of Law Enforcement and Security has made it clear,
“Let there be no misunderstanding, we will strongly enforce all DUI laws in full cooperation with state and local law enforcement agencies at all off-road recreation locations.”

I also recall finding a definition of highway when I dug up those regs and it included pretty muchanywhere you can drive, so I imagine BRC is covered... probably the Playa as well (I imagine there is some wording in the permit to that effect). Anyone ever talk to an attorney about it?

But there appears to be an "exemption" for RV's and "vehicles for hire" (whatever that means, Limo's & taxis I guess), at least in the state law. So I am wondering if any big vehicles got warnings, or if anyone else got a warning. My previous vehicles have been large, this was my first year on a small open vehicle. And maybe the warning was a chance thing once they got close enought to see that we had drinks.

But this is nothing new, it has been this way legally for years. It is just the first time I have ever seen it enforced.

The whole "pull over" was a bit flaky - The LEO was ~100 yards away to my left. As I pulled even with them (they are now out of my field of vision as the driver unless I turn my head) one of my passengers says the police are flashing their lights at me. I look over, and indead the car is flashing their headlights. Confused, I check my speed (it's ok) and continue - but then the officer leans out the window and waves me over.

Most of the stop was actually spent looking at the vehicle (they were curious about my steering and controls, as they are not apparent, and I was eager to show them). Once they determined I was not under the influence and my passengers dumped their drinks (on the Playa no less, they wouldn't let us dump them into our cooler) the LEO's were pretty relaxed. I almost think the whole thing was a pretext to get some schwag.

The Governor · Post by **The Governor** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:20 pm

I just read your post and we have never had this problem in the 6 years we've had our art car/ bar ( The Dogfish). You can see it at www.kampkamoniwannaleiu.com. We give out 2,500 dollars in alcohol and have numerous drinking passangers and never been stopped or harrassed in any way. I will see the Gerlach sheriff this weekend and ask if this is legal or not. When I get a answer I'll post it.
The Governor

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:13 am

...yeah, the feeling I had is they really were after the Playa schwag (and "justified" the encounter with an alcohol warning)... much as I like to interact with the LEO's on a friendly basis, I think helping to dress them up like Burners is a mistake (after all, they are not Burners, they are working and participating in a money-based society while they are with us). I suspect a good bit of that Playa schwag makes it's way to the various undercover cops...why make it easier? If they want to dress like Burners, make'em attend for real, I say! Let's start'em off with a spanking session...