Building a wall in sections. How to join the sections?

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:07 pm

I'm builidng a wall out of 2x4's and sections of 4'x8' plywood (vertically so that they're 8' tall). To make these walls free-standing, I thought I could join the sections together in an L shape. The problem is that they also have to be detachable/transportable. What I'm wondering is: What's a good, detachable way to join each 4'x8' wall section to the other? Is there a name for this kind of connector?

ThePikey · Post by **ThePikey** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:22 pm

Bolts.

If you are building your sections with the 2x4s perpendicular to the plywood, you can just drill holes in the adjacent studs and hook 'em up like so.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:41 pm

Do like the carneys - use door hinges. Then you put the pins in (or use "mousekeys" (hitch pin clips) if you really wanna do it right, as they stay in place and can even be tied in if needed) and it all stays together, pull the pins and it all comes apart.

Been doing this for years... and the technique has been used at least a century (we had a carnival "joint" that was built in 1909 that's still being used today...)

bb

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:50 pm

ThePikey wrote:Bolts.

If you are building your sections with the 2x4s perpendicular to the plywood, you can just drill holes in the adjacent studs and hook 'em up like so.

Oops. I meant how to connect two wall sections to each other (temporarily)...if I'm understanding you correctly...

The problem is that the walls would be already completed such that I couldn't get to the 2x4's (they'd be covered by plywood).

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:53 pm

Ergo hinges and pins. Trust me, this works.

bb

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:16 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Do like the carneys - use door hinges. Then you put the pins in (or use "mousekeys" (hitch pin clips) if you really wanna do it right, as they stay in place and can even be tied in if needed) and it all stays together, pull the pins and it all comes apart.

Been doing this for years... and the technique has been used at least a century (we had a carnival "joint" that was built in 1909 that's still being used today...)

bb

Hm. I was hoping for something more seamless...there's no kind of fastener that lets you hook into the other fastener? (You know, the kind where you lift up and it's disconnected and drop it and it's connected?)Hoping to hook one end of one wall to one side of the other wall.

I wonder if it would work to add a 4x4 post with bolts thru it that connect to nuts that are on the end of each wall's face...?

Mr. Polando · Post by **Mr. Polando** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:46 am

Dallas, are you just creating an "L" shaped wall or a box? How large/how many sections will it be? Are you covering both sides of the wall with plywood?

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:18 am

Mr. Polando wrote:Dallas, are you just creating an "L" shaped wall or a box? How large/how many sections will it be? Are you covering both sides of the wall with plywood?

It's an L-shaped wall in order for it to be free-standing.

Yes, both sides of the 2x4's will be covered in plywood (in fact, thinking about filling the space between the two pieces of plywood with insulating foam for noise abatement).

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:53 am

DallasPlaya wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Do like the carneys - use door hinges.
Hm. I was hoping for something more seamless...there's no kind of fastener that lets you hook into the other fastener? (You know, the kind where you lift up and it's disconnected and drop it and it's connected?)

I'm thinking the door hinge does that, Dallas. Am I missing what you want? Screw one hinge to one wall, the other hinge to the other wall, then slide the walls together and drop the hinge pin into the hinge. Voila. One fastener hooked to the other. No lifting, no dropping, though. Is that important?

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:19 pm

I agree hinges are the way to go (sets for theater are put together this way also). But I would set the walls up first (with a few people holding them in place) THEN attach the hinges to both walls at once. That way you will be sure to get the wall just so, and it will fit for sure once you take it apart and want to reassemble it. I think putting the hinges on each wall seperately would pretty much ensure they wouldn't go together.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:46 pm

Hinges. Wouldn't that give me a space between one wall section and the other?

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:39 pm

DallasPlaya wrote:Hinges. Wouldn't that give me a space between one wall section and the other?

Oh! I see what your problem is. You're looking at the door when it's _open_, seeing that gap. Look at the door when it's closed -- you can set your hinges so that there's no gap when the walls are at right angles. The wall's then won't "close" because there's no gap to swing into. You set the walls up backwards from how the door is set up.

Phil

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:03 pm

phil wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:Hinges. Wouldn't that give me a space between one wall section and the other?
Oh! I see what your problem is. You're looking at the door when it's _open_, seeing that gap. Look at the door when it's closed -- you can set your hinges so that there's no gap when the walls are at right angles. The wall's then won't "close" because there's no gap to swing into. You set the walls up backwards from how the door is set up.

Phil

Right, but, even if I did that, wouldn't the pin part be visible outside the panels? I'm trying to avoid that. I want it to look as much like a wall with no seams as possible.

Cheesebikini · Post by **Cheesebikini** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:43 pm

I made a L-Shaped Wall using steel studs screwed to face of a 4x4. For added reinforcement metal L brackets on top and bottom. You can cover the exterior edges of 4x4 with metal flashing or paint or fur. Seamless, but permant.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:51 pm

Cheesebikini wrote:I made a L-Shaped Wall using steel studs screwed to face of a 4x4. For added reinforcement metal L brackets on top and bottom. You can cover the exterior edges of 4x4 with metal flashing or paint or fur. Seamless, but permant.

Yeah, I was thinking about doing both a 4x4 (with bolts/nuts) and L-shaped brackets. I'm just surprised no one knows of any kind of bracket that'll let me connect two walls. I'm going to head up to home depot tomorrow to see if the have anything I could use. I'll report back when I figure this out. Thanks!

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:29 pm

Yeah, I have an idea... might just work. And be a blind attachment.

Cut a pair of "keyhole" or slot shaped holes in the 2x4 on the side of the wall section. Then use somethong like a big headed lagscrew or bolt (bolt might work better) or an "L" anchor attached to the 2x4 on the opposite wall. The L's slide into the keyholes and drop down to lock the 2 sections in place. That'd achieve what you're trying to do (I think) but I'm not sure how structurally secure it would be. You >might< have to put a header 2x4 across the top of the wall (screw it down) to secure the pieces in place so the wind doesn't make them jump and come apart. When you're done, pull the screws, remove the header board, and lift the "bolt" wall, it'll slide from the "hole" wall.

bb

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:14 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Yeah, I have an idea... might just work. And be a blind attachment.

Cut a pair of "keyhole" or slot shaped holes in the 2x4 on the side of the wall section. Then use somethong like a big headed lagscrew or bolt (bolt might work better) or an "L" anchor attached to the 2x4 on the opposite wall. bb

Hey excellent, what you're describing is often found on wood bed frames where the frame rail attaches to the headboard. Should work good! I went looking for a picture of the two piece hardware, one side having two protruding studs (like the lagscrew heads you mention) and the other a plate having the keyholes that are usually ramped so as you connect and smack the studs into the holes they slide down and tighten up. Couldn't find one like that right off....will look more....a furniture hardware supplier should stock stuff like this. Metal bed frames sometimes have a similar hook and stud arrangement (hook end shown below in photo) but would be harder to adapt to walls?

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:33 pm

Aha, found one varient of the hardware:

Surely there are others, this ones from these guys:
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_de ... ings_id=10

I gotta come see what you build with these Dallas, sounds interesting!
Meanwhile I need to start another thread...I've got a custom "speaker" I want to do for 2006, a very tall one...need to bounce some ideas off ya'all.

Cheesebikini · Post by **Cheesebikini** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:31 pm

That is a fabulous piece of hardware! I will keep it mind for the next wall. A potential challenge will be the torque on an 8' high L-shaped wall. The bed frame has the completion of the square for structural integrity. My wall is 16x8x8 all steel studs and I had to add the top and bottom brackets to reduce torque. Your using wood should reduce the problem, yes?

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:11 am

We had big fancy display panels at the Kalamazoo Institute of Arts when I worked there....(Don't laugh. It's actually the best art museum in SW Michigan- Got Chihuly right now...) Same kind of blind drop-in-slot hardware.
How about an L-shaped retainer at the top and bottom of the walls?

Is this a display wall for artwork? Sounds like it, with both sides sheeted and the necessity for clean lines.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:07 am

Yeah, yeah Chihuly. A real publicity hound. I actually feel smug that he doesn't blow his own glass....

Bad Fishy!

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:21 pm

I envy him his staff and exhibition crew. And used to lump him in with everyone else that I scorned for "not doing their own shit" until I realized how laid up he is....(The eye he lost in a car accident in the 70's, but he's since had a shoulder injury as well.) Been rethinking my stance since the hand surgery last month...

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:26 pm

For me, it's really about the whole successfull artist = artist who can market thing. Been true for years, but when I see those pbs specials I just want to shake him after half an hour. "You pretentious prat! Shut! the! F*ck! Up!!!!!!!"

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:54 pm

That's one thing that drove me, screaming, away from the Kazoo Art Institute....amazing how, even in such a humble backwater, some people can gas on into infinity about their work... or others'. The more time you have for that crap, the less time you're "makin' stuff".
I'd like, just ONCE, to have some nationally-recognized artist say that he or she made something "because they thought it'd be fun/pretty/cool" instead of that "it, for me, compounded the visual metaphor vis-a-vis the eviceration of the paradigm and its reflection in the mirror of the collective paraconscious".
That's one of the things that keeps me crossing the country every August. I love to be returned to the wow-five-years-old by a fun/pretty/cool installation or performance, and often skip the manifesto if one is provided.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:57 pm

Definately skip the manifestoes whenever possible. The experience of reading is very distracting from art. I mean, there's good stuff in art history, but it can get toooooo stuffy. Or somehting like that.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:36 pm

Yes, yes, yes Tia. Perfect. I'll order a set and let you know how it goes.

I'm thinking about building a wall. I don't like burning stuff. For now I'm working on a collapsible 4" tall platform so I can have flooring in my chill space (I was supposed to build a prototype at our regional last weekend but never got to it). I might build a wall, too, to separate some space under the carport.

Hugh Mungus

Building a wall in sections. How to join the sections?

Building a wall in sections. How to join the sections?

A permant solution......

Re: A permant solution......

variation

torque potential