Camp layout designing

[Kriten]

Using our greatest resource- each other

Here I have my planned layout for my small 1-2 person camp. show me you design layout and list of equipment let us help eachother desing a safe and well planed camp. Talk about what produst or method work better for one another.




My equipment list as such

Parawing
Kelty orb 2 tent
Triptease light line
Adjustable tent pole
2 extream 100quart coolers
portable outdoor table with adjustable hight
4 solar beekon lights to mark camp parimiter

[dragonfly Jafe]

This looks like a good plan. I would put my tent on the West side (to avoid morning light/heating), maybe on the far side of the Jeep depending on what was there next to me. Does your parawing go down to the ground on at least one side? If not, I would have some added material (tarps, etc) to form a wind block when the wind storms hit.

We have not yet begun our camp plan, here is what we had for last year (we will likely do the same thing w/ facelift); http://www.geocities.com/wspjafe/blunderland/

Good luck with your camp!

[phil]

Opinions vary, so others will certainly disagree. Louise and I took a parawing in 1998:


It didn't provide enough shade (sun shone through), it didn't provide enough shade (not nearly big enough for 2, much less others when people stopped by), it didn't provide enough shade (you couldn't stand, and the nearness of the surface meant it radiated heat to those under it) ,and it didn't provide enough shade (one support collapsed during a wind-storm -- much to the chagrin of the seller who'd never seen such a thing and assured us it would hold up under anything the playa had to offer).

[Tiahaar]

If you can put some tie-off loops on your vehicle it makes a good solid anchor for one side of a shade tarp. This one is 20x30.

[Dork]

You'll want shade that goes over the tent and goes at least most of the way down to the ground on the East and West sides and extends a bit to the South. The shade material should be as opaque as you can manage.

I've had bad luck with evaporation ponds and just carry the stuff home now.

2 100 qt coolers is a hell of a lot. Are you cooking for or providing alcohol to a bunch of people?

What's the adjustable tent pole for? Is that what you plan to use to support the shade?

[Lassen Forge]

I was holding off (and I don't have any pix handy - sorry)...

As has been mentioned (has it??) shade is the most important consideration. You want it big enough to be able to get out of the heat, and it has to be high enough (and preferably have 2 layers) to break the convective (right??) layer between the sun and you...

Second is warmth. Why warmth? It's cold at night. People forget this until they get out there - fortunately, last year was cold enoutgh to keep most people inside through the "wee" hours, so I remember it this year. Have a way of getting/keeping/staying warm - a *good* sleeping bag, tent heater, insulative layers, etc...

I didn't mention wind because it is a given. I use (with success) 2.5' rebar, candy caned, and with the other end sharpened to a point (and hardened). Drives with a sledge, pulls with a long bar or hi-lift jack. But you MUST make sure everything is staked well. How well? We had a day of 60 MPH winds (gusts to 80+) (approaching alpha conditions) and a lot of tents were hurt and needed help. Saving grace was the Playa liked rebar this year so it wasn't hard to put our 20 hunks of stuff into the ground. But heed this - EVERYTHING you have MUST be staked. We had our 10x10 pop-up want to go mobile a number of times, and the rebar is all that saved it...

More later - I'm bushed!!

bb

[Kinetic IV]

Think Category I Hurricane force winds...it's better to slightly overengineer your shade and tent systems than have this happen to you. Unless you really want to explore the deep playa looking for the MOOP that was your tent...

This will be my 5th year attending but I still refer back to one source as my base information of what works and what won't out there. And that is Bob Stahl's guide to desert structures.

http://www.geocities.com/potatotrap/tech/bluetarp.htm

I've spent many hours looking into shade structures and reading all kinds of advice...this is the one source I keep coming back to because the information is sound.

[regionalchaos]

[AntiM]

As I still haven't figured out how to post pictures, go to my site, the link is in my sigline, and you can see our camp behind the Home for Wayward Art.

We've used poles and tarps secured to a trailer, which worked alright, but was too low and hot, and when there got to be more people, not everyone fit under the shade especially if they had a large tent. Now we're up to two carports, set ten feet apart with snow camo stretched between them. This gives us private areas in the carports and a common area for sitting and socializing. We clamshell one carport by leaving a row of legs off, this provides a low-profile face to the wind (southeast last year?). We do have an EZ-up shade structure, but it goes to local burns when we aren't doing the full-on carports. If we need more shade, we just add snow camo wings to the back or sides. Typically, we have six people in camp, and there's almost always a tent stuck off to the side.

Last year we lost a tent pole on our big Coleman tent at the Utah Burn, Synorgy, winds got up to 65 mph gusts. This year at Burning Man, a gust caught as the second carport was going up and torqued a roof pole out of true.

Be sure to have a shaded hunk of carpet or hammock or cot for a place to stretch out in daylight hours, napping in the tent in the heat sucks.

We no longer try to make all the walls have a secure seal to the ground to combat dust, just easier and less destructive to let the wind blow through.

[Kriten]

Thankyou all with this information I have revamped my Idea for my camp. I now plan to make a community bar I will draw up a basic design for this tonight because I have work soon.

This looks like a good plan. I would put my tent on the West side (to avoid morning light/heating), maybe on the far side of the Jeep depending on what was there next to me. Does your parawing go down to the ground on at least one side? If not, I would have some added material (tarps, etc) to form a wind block when the wind storms hit.

I considdered the sun's rotation into camp placement and I decided that the cooler is priority and should be shaded the most. Im not gonna spoil if I get hot. Thou I will be looking into better shade equipment now that I'v gotten info the the parawing from someone whos used it on the playa before. Thinking about this http://www.msrcorp.com/tents/pavilion.asp but then again it might be too low.

It didn't provide enough shade (sun shone through), it didn't provide enough shade (not nearly big enough for 2, much less others when people stopped by), it didn't provide enough shade (you couldn't stand, and the nearness of the surface meant it radiated heat to those under it) ,and it didn't provide enough shade (one support collapsed during a wind-storm -- much to the chagrin of the seller who'd never seen such a thing and assured us it would hold up under anything the playa had to offer).

Thankyou thankyou thankyou! I can't tell you how much I needed to know who this thing would deal with the playa. MSR is great but they sotime leave out important info to make thing more apealing. What are you poinnions on the Pavilion? http://www.msrcorp.com/tents/pavilion.asp Here is a site with full details in it. http://moontrail.com/msr/pavilion/msr-pavilion-stnd.php and some addictional dimentions.

If you can put some tie-off loops on your vehicle it makes a good solid anchor for one side of a shade tarp. This one is 20x30.

I own a 1991 Jeep Wrangler so a large tie off will not work for me But I may be able to tie the end of the MSR pavilion to backend of the support frame on my jeep that can help greatly for easy acess to my locked storrage of alchohol [I'm planning to make a well stocked bar]

You'll want shade that goes over the tent and goes at least most of the way down to the ground on the East and West sides and extends a bit to the South. The shade material should be as opaque as you can manage.

I've had bad luck with evaporation ponds and just carry the stuff home now.

2 100 qt coolers is a hell of a lot. Are you cooking for or providing alcohol to a bunch of people?

What's the adjustable tent pole for? Is that what you plan to use to support the shade?

Good info there Dork thanks Im sure I can make this evaportaion thing work and for me I have a mist pump and that learned to take a shower with less then 24oz. The 2 100qt cooler are for alot, 1 is to house all my food provisions, and the liquor to be use that night for my community bar. The other will house a lineing of dry ice encasing bags of Ice for the other cooler. This one will be opened one a morening to restock the other cooler.

As has been mentioned (has it??) shade is the most important consideration. You want it big enough to be able to get out of the heat, and it has to be high enough (and preferably have 2 layers) to break the convective (right??) layer between the sun and you...

Second is warmth. Why warmth? It's cold at night. People forget this until they get out there - fortunately, last year was cold enoutgh to keep most people inside through the "wee" hours, so I remember it this year. Have a way of getting/keeping/staying warm - a *good* sleeping bag, tent heater, insulative layers, etc...

I didn't mention wind because it is a given. I use (with success) 2.5' rebar, candy caned, and with the other end sharpened to a point (and hardened). Drives with a sledge, pulls with a long bar or hi-lift jack. But you MUST make sure everything is staked well. How well? We had a day of 60 MPH winds (gusts to 80+) (approaching alpha conditions) and a lot of tents were hurt and needed help. Saving grace was the Playa liked rebar this year so it wasn't hard to put our 20 hunks of stuff into the ground. But heed this - EVERYTHING you have MUST be staked. We had our 10x10 pop-up want to go mobile a number of times, and the rebar is all that saved it...

I'm wondering if 8 feet is high enough If so then next I will next need to figure out seating. For warmth I will have plenty not to worry. I have 14" long 3/4" thick rebar for the job with a J cure to plan completly into the ground [no wirries I will remove all ove them before I leave]

Think Category I Hurricane force winds...it's better to slightly overengineer your shade and tent systems than have this happen to you. Unless you really want to explore the deep playa looking for the MOOP that was your tent...

This will be my 5th year attending but I still refer back to one source as my base information of what works and what won't out there. And that is Bob Stahl's guide to desert structures.

http://www.geocities.com/potatotrap/tech/bluetarp.htm

I've spent many hours looking into shade structures and reading all kinds of advice...this is the one source I keep coming back to because the information is sound.

Oh I plan to overengineer everything what lacked in my plan was this design of the tents staking, I will be using rebar as previously stated and 190 lbs proof guyline. Thanks for the source I'll refrence it when need be.

Be sure to have a shaded hunk of carpet or hammock or cot for a place to stretch out in daylight hours, napping in the tent in the heat sucks.

We no longer try to make all the walls have a secure seal to the ground to combat dust, just easier and less destructive to let the wind blow through.

I plan to leave a 2-4 inch gap from the ground to allow wind to pass. I'v already started to scout out carpet stores I even have one that will call me if there throwing out scraps of carpet

[HughMungus]

Why a parawing instead of a carport? You can get a 10x20 carport for about the same price, have more space, have roll-up sides and a place to hide from the weather if you need it, etc.

[Dork]

The 2 100qt cooler are for alot, 1 is to house all my food provisions, and the liquor to be use that night for my community bar. The other will house a lineing of dry ice encasing bags of Ice for the other cooler.

No problem.. overkill can be a good thing, just making sure you understand that's what it is here It would be cheaper to simply buy more ice from center camp as needed instead of bringing the dry ice cooler, but if you want to be self-sufficient that's cool. Plus, you can bring ice cream

I'd second the carport idea. Most of those tent-like shades only block 60% or so of the sun and leave a lot of wasted space.

[AntiM]

Among the handy things I've made for the playa: cooler cozies. I had some old (vintage if you're fancy) quilted material and some fake fur, I made some fitted covers which pull down over the coolers. We also throw our nightitme ponchos over the coolers and keep them out of direct sunlight and on a chunk of carpet so they're not in direct contact with the playa. Makes a world of difference how long ice keeps.

Yummy treat last year: frozen mini cream puffs.

[Kriten]

Keep it comming guys I would never be able to decide without this imput. [I'm a lebra] At work I sparked with some doodles for the Bar design I'll have a more exact design later when I get real world mesurments of everything.

Why a parawing instead of a carport? You can get a 10x20 carport for about the same price, have more space, have roll-up sides and a place to hide from the weather if you need it, etc.

I have a friend that can get me MSR equipment for invoice prices, and the MSR equipment is a steal at those prices [$250 for a 8X14X23 foot structure]. The sides on the pavilian roll up as well. Water proof and highly wind resistant and I just dont like the car port shapes call me picky

No problem.. overkill can be a good thing, just making sure you understand that's what it is here It would be cheaper to simply buy more ice from center camp as needed instead of bringing the dry ice cooler, but if you want to be self-sufficient that's cool. Plus, you can bring ice cream

I'd second the carport idea. Most of those tent-like shades only block 60% or so of the sun and leave a lot of wasted space.

You never know I may just need to chill that extra bottle of vodka or whiskey realy quick. Oh I'll bring some icecream for the root beer floats.

With MSR's Nylon Oxford 1500mm PU coating, it effectivly blocks out harmfull UV rays and give soft lighing during the day so your not completly blocked out of the light.

Among the handy things I've made for the playa: cooler cozies. I had some old (vintage if you're fancy) quilted material and some fake fur, I made some fitted covers which pull down over the coolers. We also throw our nightitme ponchos over the coolers and keep them out of direct sunlight and on a chunk of carpet so they're not in direct contact with the playa. Makes a world of difference how long ice keeps.

Yummy treat last year: frozen mini cream puffs.

Good Idea I'll think about making cooler covers to protect them from the harsh sun, some simple woden pallet creats will work great to lift them 3 " off the ground and there free you can find them in the trash behind most major grocery stores.

Yummy treat this year: Root Beer Floats

[Kinetic IV]

You can't go wrong with MSR equipment....they build stuff that again if properly staked down would have no trouble handling what the playa can toss at it. And it looks like you already have your mind made up on the equipment choice which is good.

I'll admit to a touch of envy...MSR equipment at invoice prices? You're lucky.

And their camp stoves particularily the Whisperlite International version has been one of the best things I've ever bought. (Sorry, gotta throw in a plug or two, the products are that good)

[Kriten]

You can't go wrong with MSR equipment....they build stuff that again if properly staked down would have no trouble handling what the playa can toss at it. And it looks like you already have your mind made up on the equipment choice which is good.

I'll admit to a touch of envy...MSR equipment at invoice prices? You're lucky.

And their camp stoves particularily the Whisperlite International version has been one of the best things I've ever bought.

I have made up my mind on some of my equipment thanls everyone's help, I.E. Tent, the pavilion, Coolers. There is still alot of thing I have yet to be definate about.

Off and on the playa its all about who you know, that makes life easy.

Ooo I'll looking to that stove might come in handy for other things.

[phil]

On the MSR pavillion, I'd suggest getting a backup pole or two.

[phil]

Another thought on the pavillion. Since it's shaped sort of like a pup tent, my thinking would be to orient it so that the long spine at the top of the tent points in the direction the wind is blowing. Generally, the wind blows from Gerlach toward the Man. This would mean you have less wind resistance than if you put the side of the tent toward the wind. When our parawing pole bent, the wind was coming into the side of the wing that was staked to the ground, pushing down on that fabric hard enough to collapse the pole. If you look at that picture I posted, we've got it set up wrong for playa conditions - we should have had it rotated 90 degrees for the wind. We put it up instead to provide shade from the southerly/westerly sun.

However you put it up is up to you and the site measurements, space, and so on. You'll learn from your experience, and every year you come back, you'll do it better. You're getting lots of advice here, but remember I'm telling you what works for me, how I'd do it, and that may well be wrong for you. So go, do your camp as best you can, then learn what worked well and what didn't.

Go
Learn
Repeat

:->

[Kriten]

On the MSR pavillion, I'd suggest getting a backup pole or two.

2 Poles come with the pavilion and I'm getting 2 adictional 9 foot colapsable poles.

Another thought on the pavillion. Since it's shaped sort of like a pup tent, my thinking would be to orient it so that the long spine at the top of the tent points in the direction the wind is blowing. Generally, the wind blows from Gerlach toward the Man. This would mean you have less wind resistance than if you put the side of the tent toward the wind. When our parawing pole bent, the wind was coming into the side of the wing that was staked to the ground, pushing down on that fabric hard enough to collapse the pole. If you look at that picture I posted, we've got it set up wrong for playa conditions - we should have had it rotated 90 degrees for the wind. We put it up instead to provide shade from the southerly/westerly sun.

However you put it up is up to you and the site measurements, space, and so on. You'll learn from your experience, and every year you come back, you'll do it better. You're getting lots of advice here, but remember I'm telling you what works for me, how I'd do it, and that may well be wrong for you. So go, do your camp as best you can, then learn what worked well and what didn't.

Go
Learn
Repeat

Yeah experience is what I need.

[phil]

Yeah experience is what I need.

You shall have it. :-)

[kodemage]

I have a Question about the floor under all of this.

What do you people put down there and how do you keep it clean-ish?
I was planning on steaking down a tarp to walk on and putting some carpet down on top of that. Now I think I'll need sand bags to hold down the Carpet, do I?

I intend to bring low-level seating, bean bags stools, pillows and cushions and a low-level table so we can all sit and ear Japanese style.

And to keep everything cleanish am I wasting time with bring a broom and sweeping every morning or something?

-Benjamin

[diane o'thirst]

Thinking about this http://www.msrcorp.com/tents/pavilion.asp but then again it might be too low. [snip] What are you poinnions on the Pavilion?

If you're going to spend $400, just get the Costco canopy and a case of Krylon Fusions to decorate the tarps with. You'll save a lot of money and get just as much if not more room.

You might want to use the Jeep/Trailer combination as a windblock or something to tie off to. If your Jeep was enclosed, I'd say lay a damp woven blanket on the dashboard to abate dust but it's a Wrangler...it's gonna get powerful dusty in there...bring one of those heavy-duty detailer's interior brushes and lots of Armor-All for the trip back home or you'll be sending up clouds everytime you blink.

[edited for grammar]

[Kriten]

Thinking about this http://www.msrcorp.com/tents/pavilion.asp but then again it might be too low. [snip] What are you poinnions on the Pavilion?

If you're going to spend $400, just get the Costco canopy and a case of Krylon Fusions to decorate the tarps with. You'll save a lot of money and get just as much if not more room.

You might want to use the Jeep/Trailer combination as a windblock or something to tie off to. If your Jeep was enclosed, I'd say lay a damp woven blanket on the dashboard to abate dust but it's a Wrangler...it's gonna get powerful dusty in there...bring one of those heavy-duty detailer's interior brushes and lots of Armor-All for the trip back home or you'll be sending up clouds everytime you blink.

[edited for grammar]

Thanks for the info, please try to read the whole thread next time.

I will maybe spend $250-300 as previously stated on the pavillion that is roughly 14'X23' I just priced the cheapest costco canopy they offer $224.99 for a size of 10'X10' Im definatly getting better size. Also the pavillion is designed for near playa condictions such as a summet camp or mountain shelter. The canopy costco offers dosent look like it will standup to a clowdy day at the beach.

Using the jeep at a wind breaker is not a bad Idea, but using it as a storage locker is best for me. I might not have mentoned yet but the trailer is a flatbed with a 2 foot rail so it wont be blocking anything.

Yes it is a wrangler with a soft top I expect lots-o-dust, but my jeep is a bare minimum no carpet solid plastic dash not the new pleather and apolstery crap you find today. I'v had 3 inches of water in that thing before. [left it out with the top off during a florida tarential rain] I have water proffed the electronics in the dash and just pulled the drain plug in the bottom of the floor. For the drive back I plan to drive the frist 200 miles home with the top down that should help clear the dust.

[AntiM]

The canopy costco offers dosent look like it will standup to a clowdy day at the beach.

Alright, our canopies came from a different big box outlet, but they've survived three Burning Mans (Burning Men?), a couple winter solstice burns (Snowy Utah salt marsh), a couple Synorgys and a Dark Skies. There's been minor damage but nothing we couldn't repair easily; I credit the longevity of our infrastructure to larry's meticulous attention to detail when setting up and guying down the camp. Yes, your pavilion does sound pretty darn good, jut sticking up for my beloved desert shelter.

We use our vehicle as both storage and a wind break.

[phil]

What do you people put down there and how do you keep it clean-ish?
I was planning on steaking down a tarp to walk on and putting some carpet down on top of that. Now I think I'll need sand bags to hold down the Carpet, do I?

Basically people all do different things and they find out what works for them -- so give it a shot and see if you like it.

My concern with a tarp on the ground is that if it rains, the tarp will then collect all the water that falls on it and funnel it into the puddle that's the lowest place on the tarp.

Louise and I put our carpet right on the ground, with duct tape 'binding' around the edges (unless the carpet is already bound). It has rained, and the water goes right through and all dries in a few hours. The problem is that the carpet then dries into the ground, so lifting it from the ground brings up dirt dried into the underside, which is a real mess. No good answer, I'm afraid.

We sweep the carpet at least once a day, often several times, to get the bigger clods off, but it's the playa, dude -- nothing is clean. We don't stake it down, and generally the wind has not picked it up and rolled it. Once or twice in our trips to BM, the carpet edge has come up on the windward side, but no big deal.

[kodemage]

I guess you're right about the tarp I guess.
But is it really that hard to keep the dust away?
I know it's all dusty and salty but...

I really don't like sleeping in sand...
Any tips in that regard?

-Benjamin

[regionalchaos]

I guess you're right about the tarp I guess.
But is it really that hard to keep the dust away?
I know it's all dusty and salty but...

I really don't like sleeping in sand...
Any tips in that regard?

-Benjamin

Playa dust will be everywhere, on everything. It will be in all of your orifices and will find it's way into and onto everything you take with you. When you get back and wash everything once or twice, it will still be covered in playa.

As for the sleeping in sand.. try sleeping on a clay slab instead. It is not sandy. It is dried up, caked clay. The surface is hard. The last two years I just threw a bag down on my tent floor, this year I will be getting an inflatable air mattress (I thought about a cot, but I want a queen sized mattress instead ) This isn't the hugest of concerns though, as you'll find you probably won't sleep too much while you are out there.

[HughMungus]

Regarging dust: I guess we were lucky this year. Our 10x20 carport faced away from the wind most of the time so we didn't get much wind-blown dust. We had low-pile carpets throughout and at first we wouldn't let people enter with shoes on and scrapped that after the first day. We had many visitors who sat on the floor and some of us slept in the carport at night and never had a problem with dust. I think either the carpet held it or we were just used to it. When we did sleep in the carport it was on an air mattress so that might have made a difference...and I, personally, slept in my clothes so I wouldn't have to deal with worrying about dust.

I haven't kept up with your thread and I don't know what your current plan is but I can tell you one thing: you don't want a structure that has no wind abatement. You'll get worn out being in the wind/dust all the time and it really does start to wear you out after a while. If you camp isn't a place where people can get out of the wind, dust, sun and provide at least a little bit of privacy, you won't want to be there.

[Pkozicki]

I am not only a virgin, but I have yet to buy a ticket:)

Here is my plan, which includes"Costco"!

I have one of those family size two room Costco tents (they sell for about 120.00... Well a few years ago I set it up in the back yard to dry, and the dog decided the side looked tasty. Thats one messed up dog!

Well now it has a hole at the base of one sides room...

I am thinking that I will cut the end off of it and along the hole, Following? Then I will sew or somehow attach a one or two inch nylon strip alone the cut edge. Then, and get this flash of thought, I will (as with the MSR tent) cover the back end of my suburban with the open end of the tent and attach the ends of the nylon to the rear wheel wells:)

That sould give me a two room tent (wihich are pretty big for only 100+ dollars and the rear compartment of my suburban whick is big with the seats (its an old one).

I know it could get hot in there... I am counting on those big ass windows letting air through.

Does anyone use these tents out there?

Peace out
Phil

[phil]

>SNIP<
Then, and get this flash of thought, I will (as with the MSR tent) cover the back end of my suburban with the open end of the tent and attach the ends of the nylon to the rear wheel wells:)

That sould give me a two room tent (wihich are pretty big for only 100+ dollars and the rear compartment of my suburban whick is big with the seats (its an old one).

I know it could get hot in there... I am counting on those big ass windows letting air through.

Do you care about the Suburban?