Bye Kinetic

All things outside of Burning Man.
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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:38 am

While I annoyed several people, I also inspired others along the way and the admins took notice of that. I have asked them to be considered for a moderator position should they choose to enable some.
I have a hard enough time with the idea of a moderator in any board area (inside or outside of the e-playa) and though I suspect your intention is to mean well, I personally think I'd have a real hard time having you in a position of moderator on this board.

Honestly, I would leave and not return.

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:38 am

Allright I won't cross post. I can filter anything but if anyone has another idea on how I can discourage this crap I'd love to know. I really want to find ways to discourage the behavior....and I've fallen miserably short with every attempt so far.

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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:42 am

I know this sounds lame but did you try ignoring the jerk?

blyslv
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Post by blyslv » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:46 am

I suggested that Kinetic make public his harasser/ threatenor (?) because in a community, even if it's an electornic one, slime thrives in anonymity. I've had my issues with K, but I can communicate them without trying to hurt him. And in the end they are my issues. Maybe other's posting styles are grating or annoying .. big fucking deal! But to go out of one's way to cause another person mental distress is wrong, and I would like to know who was pulling that bullshit so they can be ostracized, shamed and ignored.

I don't think this board needs a moderator.
Fight for the fifth freedom!

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Ivy
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Post by Ivy » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:50 am

Making public an agressor and cross-posting all their agressive articles are two different things.

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:51 am

Isotopia wrote:
While I annoyed several people, I also inspired others along the way and the admins took notice of that. I have asked them to be considered for a moderator position should they choose to enable some.
I have a hard enough time with the idea of a moderator in any board area (inside or outside of the e-playa) and though I suspect your intention is to mean well, I personally think I'd have a real hard time having you in a position of moderator on this board.

Honestly, I would leave and not return.
While I respect your opinion, this is not your decision to make.

And Alpha, I tried for 2 weeks to ignore the individual. I give him credit for being tenacious and for keeping things very challenging.

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Post by blyslv » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:56 am

Ivy wrote:Making public an agressor and cross-posting all their agressive articles are two different things.
True enough. I'll admit 1) I haven't thought this through fully and 2) I don't have the most experience in the world with on-line community.

But it galls me to think about an agressor. I'm not ready to give up on this place, I've been invovled in a lot of good things because of people I've met off this board.

I would like to hear both sides of the story.
Fight for the fifth freedom!

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:01 am

The admins are trying to work out all kinds of strategies for making e-playa a better place for all who use it. Instead of posting replies here, take a look at the Feature Requests section, Precipitate and others have already made several posts on this very subject.

Again, I am not making any decisions here, I simply volunteered my name when asked. Nothing more.

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:01 am

While I respect your opinion, this is not your decision to make.
I absolutely agree.

Still, as someone who frequents this board, contributes to some degree, has some level of investment and is entitled to an opinion specific as to how the board is administered I am entitled to make my opinions known. I'll continue to do as much.

That you'd even suggest posting and thereby violating one of the cardinal rules of board/USENET/e-mail protocol suggests to me that you're not quite up to the job as a moderator ('cat herder') and in so doing illuminates one of the objections I personally have with you holding the position.

BTW, I agree with Ivy's point that it *is* probably appropriate to name names without releasing content.

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:15 am

There's no rule that says I can't learn. And guess what I'm brushing up on? I've been reading the Usenet rules this morning in case I was asked and before you brought it up...I had some others suggest it last night in private! I didn't learn how to setup portable satellite ground stations overnight, I learned that, and I can learn this. The rules of engagement can be learned, but having reasonably good c/s skills takes a lot more time. That's what drawed the admins attention...look at this discussion for example. Instead of forcing one view or another, I try to find middle ground so that everyone's needs are met. BM might be subject to Larry's vision being the ultimate authority, on the e-playa though compromise is a better answer.

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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:22 am

you go Chinn... you're on the right track. (but are you sure you want to add other people's drama to your own list of stuff to deal with?)

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gizray
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Post by gizray » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:34 am

Arnold as governor? K as moderator?

NO THANK-YOU, but what does that mean..........

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gizray
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Post by gizray » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:36 am

....and no, i am not empowered with the decision making capability on this one chinn, nor were the other posts that don't like the idea. just stating opinions like you are. easy boy.

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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:42 am

gizray wrote:just stating opinions like you are. easy boy.
I think it would be more helpful to Ailchinn and the community at large if you could articulate why you hold this opinion. Better yet, offer constuctive advice on what he can do to earn your confidence.

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:45 am

Isotopia, I know you feel moderators are not needed...or wanted here. But if the admins asked you, would you consider doing it? You know the Usenet rules that many don't...your knowledge could go a long ways around here.

Alpha: My drama is being cut significantly. If I wasn't on e-playa I'd be helping somewhere else doing something. It's just a matter of finding the right fit for me. It might not be on e-playa but if I'm not volunteering or helping in some way I'm lost. That's just the way I am.

Again a moderator might not be the best way to go. But if it is someone has to step up and do it. And it might as well be someone who cares for the e-playa, is willing to learn yadda yadda....if you don't want me to get it, offer up some other choices. Or do like Precipitate did and post what your concerns are so whomever it is can try and meet your needs.

Back to work now....No caffeine makes for an interesting morning.

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gizray
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Post by gizray » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:55 am

you are right alpha. constructive helps in this case. nothing personal chinn, but i feel that you let your emotions get the best of you too often. i see too many wordy posts that are thrown onto the board too often from you and i would hate to see that emotion and haste applied to other's posts. not sure that i want a moderator at all actually and i will check into the suggestions area to see whats happening.

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antron
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Post by antron » Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:29 am

hey, k-chinn

welcome back. make yourself at home. as you have read, the place hasn't changed much since you left.

331 days is a fuck of a long time until the burn.

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:30 am

On moderators:

The old eplaya didn't suffer from lack of moderators. It was pretty much self-regulating, and always open to anyone wanting to start and maintain just about any sort of discussion.

General Discussion, as on the old eplaya, would be the last place I would expect a moderator. Or a discussion thereof.

On the newbieplaya, now that areas of discussion and sharing of information are more defined, I can see a crying need for something like moderators, more for organizing Tips, Trick, and FAQs for each subject area than to play hall monitor, but the Features subject area might be a better place to discuss such things.

Sucking the board down into the vortex of one's personal drama(s) can be avoided by just shutting up and dealing with it. Please consider a little self-control. Remember that this board is for the benefit of anyone who might access it now and in the future. This is a suggestion for everyone, BTW. That's not to say anything's preventing ya'll from creating a Personal Drama or Flamewar topic under General Discussion, so the rest of us can avoid it. YMMV and all that.

Out.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN
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Post by THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN » Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:32 am

well hey.... i just woke up and glad to see kenetic back.

just so you know i've been getting PM on my style and some improvements have been made but kenetic, you and others have to understand (and this does not include your agressors) that just like the real world we are all here together and should make the best of it.

some may not be offended and others may be offended.you cannot please everybody. anybody that thinks that i have not tried since i've been on this board to compromise has not read all of my posts.

I'VE TRIED. but hey sometimes that's the most you can do. i think it's just a matter of everybody getting to know each other a little better and that takes time.

by the way i found out that some of the spelling is not ALL me , my keyboard is fucked up. i'll change it and we shall see if that helps with some of the improvements.

KENETICS BACK.

sooo cool.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/edwardgevans/desktops/index.htm

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:10 am

Digiman, you need to chill out and spell the name right. And the Kinetic ID is gone, I'm now Ailchinn...a nice Celtic name, thank you.

Bob said what I forgot to clarify. The moderator idea is not a censor. Who has time to do that? I don't. Anyway the moderator would only move posts in the newbie and tips & tricks section and keep that part organized. Anything else is for the admins to handle meaning I wouldn't be doing anything in General Discussion besides posting, and a lot less of that.

And anything moved or adjusted in those sections would be done following the standard Usenet rules and with whatever guidelines the admins gave me. Anything else would have them yanking my priviledges so it won't be the power grab some have suggested.

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THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN
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Post by THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:54 am

Ailchinn wrote:Digiman, you need to chill out and spell the name right. And the Kinetic ID is gone, I'm now Ailchinn...a nice Celtic name, thank you.
hey sorry about that. hey did i mention i'm a really bad speller?

really that was a really bad mistake. please forgive me Ailchinn.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/edwardgevans/desktops/index.htm

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:04 pm

No problem with the spelling...we have some things in common and I can relate to the flames your getting. Definitely get that keyboard fixed...lots of typos sets people off around here.

And I've got this little saying posted above my monitor lately: You can't please everybody all the time so quit trying. Your doing your best, that's all anybody can ask. And when you try to explain your background and why things are happening you can get flamed for that. Post it once, then filter it out and move on. With 2300+ users and a core group like this, trying to keep everyone happy with what you post is IMPOSSIBLE!

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THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN
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Post by THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN » Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:14 pm

Ailchinn wrote: Post it once, then filter it out and move on. With 2300+ users and a core group like this, trying to keep everyone happy with what you post is IMPOSSIBLE!
here yee here yee!
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/edwardgevans/desktops/index.htm

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gizray
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Post by gizray » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:07 pm

so what does Ailchinn mean?

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:34 pm

It's a Celtic name and a variation of one I might use outside of e-playa. There's nothing special to it.

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:16 pm

Isotopia, I know you feel moderators are not needed...or wanted here. But if the admins asked you, would you consider doing it? You know the Usenet rules that many don't...your knowledge could go a long ways around here.
No. I wouldn’t dare. Being familiar with protocols does not make me an expert anymore than you ‘reading the rules of USENET’ will make you one. It’s not unlike comparing book sense to practical experience. Just because one’s familiar with how things ought to be contextually in no way qualifies them to apply, maintain or enforce their application in real time situations – especially in a forum as opinionated and diverse as the e-playa. I wouldn’t do it because frankly I couldn’t do it consistently or judiciously. I’d be too willing to scrub every one of Digiman’s puerile topic folders and half of his sophomoric, masturbatory retorts because I find it difficult to suffer fools. But just because that’s my issue doesn’t make it fair to Digiman, or to the rest of the readers here because I have an issue with assholes. In the end the board would suffer as I believe it’d suffer with the introduction of a moderator culled from the ranks of e-playans.

My problem with you being a moderator is that in all honesty I don’t believe you have the emotional maturity to handle the myriad issues that will inevitably continue to pop up in this little circus of ours. Without going into specifics I think you’ve indicated as much in the old e-playa where a good number of us were (for a while) suffering through your personal life crises play-by-plays for weeks it seemed. Further. I think you drew more attention to your deficiencies as a potential moderator earlier this week when you (supposedly) left a pretty warm little kitchen in a hail (wail?) of drama and thin skin flapping in the breeze. The only thing lacking Monday afternoon was your online rendition of the Dance of the Seven Veils. For me, the ‘creepiness’ factor then kicked in when it became apparent that you never had the intention of leaving here – which is OK. But to almost immediately bow out so visibly from this forum only to immediately assume a new e-playa persona the same day in order to lurk/read what others are saying about your departure strikes me as odd and immature. It’s not unlike the person who fakes their death for the opportunity to come back disguised so as to watch their own funeral. No moderator worth their salt would ever pull such a stunt and I just can’t imagine that you’d modify any of your tendencies towards such behavior were you to assume the role of moderator.

I won’t belabor my points by rehashing much of what’s already been posted here lately. I also don’t want to come down as someone berating you for the sake of berating – or bashing. You’ve asked a question and I’ve given an answer which reflects ONLY my point-of-view. I’m sure others have differing takes and I’m interested in hearing most of them. I think I’ve said enough.

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michael
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Post by michael » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

Isotopia wrote:No... enough.
Well put. The truth may hurt, but hopefully brings awareness.
-Michael

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J
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Post by J » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:49 pm

I go to work and all sorts of stuff happens

welcome back

j
Please forget the words that I just blurted out
It wasn't me, it was my strange and creeping doubt

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:23 pm

I make no apologies to anyone for doing what I needed to regain my online privacy and to protect my family against death threats.

I have apologized profusely for my previous writing style. I'm trying to make changes. It takes time.

As for emotional maturity, my weakness is I bend over backwards not to hurt people. If I wanted to be cold and cruel or just use people things would be much different. If it wasn't for people who show some compassion, the world would be a very miserable place. What you see as weakness, some people are thankful for. Very thankful.

The truth is a bitch, awareness doesn't happen overnight. But Lord knows I'm trying. Now cut me some slack so I don't have to write the long replies to all your points that you hate so much.

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:42 pm

Also...

I think some of this bloodletting might have been avoided if you'd clarified earlier that what you were considering as far as 'moderating' is in fact just...bookkeeping of sorts. There's a (VERY) big difference between moderating a board and maintaining continuity within it such as relocating the occasional wary or misplaced post from one folder to another and acting as a proctor. The latter role is something I think some of us could see Kinetic doing very competently. I for one would be appreciative of someone taking on such a task. Anything to organize and streamline this beast of a board I'm sure is appreciated by users and administrators. If this is in fact what you mean to do by volunteering your time and efforts Kinetic i'd say go for it.

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