Businesses selling Religion

michael · Post by **michael** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:19 pm

Hidden or blatant, religion has no place in products or any public arena of a business.

You are eating a burger, reach for the soda and wash it down. First of all, chew your food. Boredom and curiosity leads you to look under the cup. Not only do you find the cup manufacture’s name, but also there is a religious reference. What the hell is that all about?

The man who started In-n-Out Burger, bless his soul, thought this was a good way to spread the word. He has since died and the folks running the show continue this tradition.

I sent an email to the company about 5 years ago and their representative replied with some nonsense that most people appreciate this reference. My immediate thought was that most people do not know about it. Too bad the email reply was not saved.

There is another sneaky company I know of, Hamilton Materials, Inc. in Orange, California. Those in the building trades may have noticed the fish symbol on their joint compound product boxes. This symbol seemed sort of harmless. At least it was blatant or so I thought.

I love to recycle, but who cares? One day I was breaking down a stack of empty boxes from Hamilton Materials. And what do I see on the bottom of the damn box, a religious reference.

Printed in large font:

He has come to heal the broken hearted,
To preach deliverance to the captive.
Luke 4:18
Gal. 5:22

What kind of sneaky crap is that? And what purpose does it serve the contractor?

From the day the reference was noticed on the In-n-Out cup, I vowed never to do business with any company that pushes their religious beliefs. One reason I quit my job was that they prayed during company dinners, knowing I do not share their religious beliefs. Aside from being illegal, it was rude.

I encourage other people to do the same, regardless of how good the hamburger tastes or your professed need for the product or service.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:23 pm

Hmmm... just to play devils advocate here (so to speak).

Would you have the same reaction to a zen parable? Praise of the goddess? All or any religion or just christianity?

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:28 pm

Scientology has a lot of stealth businesses around. Beware.

michael · Post by **michael** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:32 pm

Lydia Love wrote:All or any religion or just christianity?

I gave that some thought. I mainly grew up in the Fairfax area of Los Angeles. There are plenty of very religious people that have shops there.

If the store is religious based, it is fine. If some carpet dealer put a fish, crucifix, Star of David on his business card I would probably do business with them. But if they hide references from any holy book, I would not trade with them.

So, the answer is that I refuse all businesses selling any religion. It is okay to state your beliefs.

Niacin · Post by **Niacin** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:34 pm

There's some ephemeral swank written on the wrapper and actually pressed into Dr. Bronner's soap, too.

I don't have a problem with private business going for the invisible friend angle, but if they're going about it sneakily, well, that's another thing entirely.

Max

antron · Post by **antron** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:46 pm

i've got no issues with businesses reflecting whatever they want, whether i agree or not with their expression. i'm an opportunist. i make my decisions based on my needs in the moment, rather than a prescription or rubric. sometimes i really want that vegetarian "neatloaf" sold by the followers of that guru. when i do, i eat it. sometimes i want sushi, and have no problem with the pretty shinto shrine. i liked the music and the beer, and had no problems with the picture of jesus over the door of paddy mirage.

i get lots more uptight about other things, like active practices of discrimination or exclusion.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:56 pm

I'd love to have the e-playa view on Scientology. A few months back I was looking into several religions and it seems like everything I read about it was negative. What are the core reasons why everyone hates it so much?

I run into similar hostility towards the Mormons too but there's a historical timeline that helped me understand that group's issues. Scientology doesn't give me much that's not PR spin..would anyone mind putting up a post or PM'ing me so I understand it better?

Niacin · Post by **Niacin** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:58 pm

As I know it, it's a cult that's willing to kill it's members to protect profits and the fact they are all worshipping alien invasion.

http://www.xenu.net

Cheers,
Max
OT Level i

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:05 pm

Apparently the backstory is that L. Ron Hubbard and other sci-fi writers were sitting around and the topic of religion came up. L. Ron Hubbard bet everyone he could make up a believable religion and won.

Made him filthy stinking rich too (not the bet - the religion)

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:16 pm

Scientology basically recycles Freud and Nietzsche, gussies it up with ludicrous quasi-scientific jargon, and charges uneducated people a gajillion dollars to swallow it all. They also use borderline brainwashing techniques and "technology" like the E-meter (basically a primitive lie detector) to dupe the credulous.

I don't think it's as much of a menace as some people think it is, but it is definitely lame and a half.

http://www.xenu.net is a good resource, actually.

[edited for horrendous misuse of SAT vocabulary, dammit)

Niacin · Post by **Niacin** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:17 pm

One of these weekends I'm going to drive up to Clearwater (Scientology World Headquarters) with a dvcam and have some laughs at the clam's expense.

Max

aforceforgood · Post by **aforceforgood** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:20 pm

I remember reading the scientology book way back when and wondering after a few hundred pages when they were going to start explaining the self-referencing (in other words, undefined but they sounded weighty) terms they kept throwing around.

Turns out they never did, so I'd say the whole idea was to sound important and intelligent to fool the rubes into turning over their $$ and more importantly their minds.

In other words, what clandy said. I stopped reading it about halfway through. It is a scam.

As for the religious references, why do you have such a strong reaction? Aren't they the equivalent of a fortune inside a cookie?

DogBoy · Post by **DogBoy** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:11 pm

I found out a few weeks ago that a very dear friend of mine has married a scientologist & has become one herself. This has caused me a lot of mental turmoil.

I will never tell someone what to believe in (faith-wise), nor will I tell them that their religion is "wrong". I went through a time in my life researching assorted religions & hated hearing people preach in this fashion. But at the same time, I hate to see someone I care about spending money on any religion (best I can do on the thread topic).

I've been consoling myself with the fact that the councilling (?qed) side of it really has helped her in certain ways; relationships w/her family, self image. I really don't give a tinkers damn who/what you want, to worship, but I hate seeing people spend money in order to interact with their higher power.

(the above statements should be taken as needed daily, by mouth, with food & alchohol)

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:20 pm

It really is the money issue that chaps my ass the most. I think people can believe any damfool thing they like, but to PAY for it is just plain laughable.

The other big problem with Scientology is that it isolates its members from the rest of the world, and convinces them that everyone outside the organization is evil. The isolation becomes more and more complete the further up the "bridge" one goes. Classic cult tactics.

The therapy does appear to work for some people, but at what cost?

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:23 pm

but at what cost?

Apparently all their money and all their friends...

I'll stay crazy - thank you!

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:40 pm

I asked for it and got more than I expected from Niacin's link.

Unbelievable. Totally unbelievable. Body thetans? Hydrogen bombs, auditing, Fair Game, How to shatter opression? Oh man, I had no idea. I saw the books and didn't know there was this kind of a backlash. Now any site like this could be up just because they have an axe to grind but it's a little too fleshed out to be your normal bitch session. That's just incredible!

If I use the term shellshocked it's not enough...it's hard to truly grasp the concept here, and that people can actually fall for this stuff. It scares me. And now I understand why certain states and the US Govt is fighting this.

So I can go out and sit on my ass writing Sci-Fi books, do all kinds of drugs and then make it all into a religion and get Non-Profit status so I can earn millions, create goon squads to take out my enemies and then retire without a care while hundreds of lives are fucked up forever? Hubbard sounds like a candidate for that special place in hell that is reserved for the worst of humanity. His stuff automatically qualifies him.

(In all honesty this is the scariest stuff I've read in years.)

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:42 pm

As with everything on Ye Olde Internet, take it with a fistful of salt. I think Andreas' most convincing evidence comes from the testimonials of former members, and the OT levels and other official literature.

megmystery · Post by **megmystery** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:46 pm

paying money for a religion and supporting the group that you practice with are two different things in my mind, there are costs for many different religous practices.... any one see my point?

DogBoy · Post by **DogBoy** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:52 pm

MegMystery sez-

any one see my point?

Absolutely. There's also a difference between helping others find a path (whatever it may be) & bilking the sheeples in order to sell more of your books.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:18 pm

I'm on the Scientology hit list.

Seriously.

Not because I ever subscribed to such pap but because in the younger days of USENET I was passing out copies of all the OT levels.

I still have them all. All $400,000.00 worth which is about what it takes in 'donations' to the Church of Scientology(TM) to get yourself to those levels.

Art project is to burn them on CDs and slip one under every windshield wiper of every vehicle at Black Rock next year.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:32 pm

As with most things online a big can of Sea Salt goes a long ways. The testimonials are what got to me, and then the little part that Isotopia brings up again about essentially buying your way into the stuff. $400K? Unreal! And you factor that by a conservative 1000 members who tried to get that high and the numbers get very interesting. When you see the Dianetics book on the shelf you have no idea it can lead you into something like I just read about. Again I'm just floored by it.

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:34 pm

Isotopia wrote:I'm on the Scientology hit list.

Seriously.

Not because I ever subscribed to such pap but because in the younger days of USENET I was passing out copies of all the OT levels.

I still have them all. All $400,000.00 worth which is about what it takes in 'donations' to the Church of Scientology(TM) to get yourself to those levels.

Art project is to burn them on CDs and slip one under every windshield wiper of every vehicle at Black Rock next year.

My favorite is OT 3. Who knew we live on Teegeeack and have dozens of psychotic aliens living inside us? Rah rah rah!

When I lived in LA I was going to have a "Suppressive Person -- Fair Game" T-shirt made, and I planned on prancing around Hollywood wearing it, but never got around to it. I don't regret much...

alice · Post by **alice** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:55 pm

clandyone wrote:When I lived in LA I was going to have a "Suppressive Person -- Fair Game" T-shirt made, and I planned on prancing around Hollywood wearing it, but never got around to it. I don't regret much...

clandy - check out "iron-on irony" thread. would love your input.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:59 pm

I think it's also the OT 3 Levels that talk about humans and Thetans living in the volcanoes ten million years ago at the beginning of Quaternary epoch or something like that. Hell, the only mammals with half a brain during that time were the cetacians (whale/dolphin ancestors) and they knew the real action was slumming about in the oceans rather than listening to some schlub fresh off the Mother Ship talking shit about world domination and mind control.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:08 pm

I'd heard of Teegeeack before and didn't know what people were talking about until just now. This gets stranger and stranger. Living in volcanoes? Mother ships? I believe there is strange stuff out at Area 51 but that's about as far as it gets. And that's only because of the secrecy surrounding the place that I even give that even a mid grade level of credibility. This other stuff is just too far out there to have even a sliver of logic attached.

Iso, have you had people physically attack you over this?

aforceforgood · Post by **aforceforgood** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:50 pm

I have often said to my friends that the only thing keeping me from being a ridiculously rich cult leader is my morals and ethics and principles.

I am thinking about selling them off as I find I can't afford to have them anymore...

I wonder if ebay will consider them body parts...

THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN · Post by **THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:45 pm

Watching them come and go
The templars and the saracens
They're traveling the holy land
Opening telegrams

Torture comes and torture goes
Knights who'd give you anything
They bear the cross of coeuf de leon
Salvation for the mirror blind

But if you pray all your sins are hooked upon the sky
Pray and the heathen lie will disappear
Prayers they hide the saddest view
(Believing the strangest things, loving the alien)
And your prayers they break the sky in two
(Believing the strangest things, loving the alien)

"Bowie"

Taniwha · Post by **Taniwha** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:51 pm

Isotopia wrote:I'm on the Scientology hit list.

Ohhh me too- we probably know each other .... I retired from most of my part in the net vs. scientolog war after they came to my house and picketed my children.

As mentioned upthread www.xenu.net is the best place to go for disenting information on $cientology, you should of course check out the other side at www.scientology.org.

If you or a friend are considering Scientology please have them check out those URLs - the xenu.net people are for real, the stories there are from real people who have been in scientology, other ex-scientology people have told me worse

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:26 pm

I was more then a little drunk and walking past the DC headquarters of the scientologists. Since they were having an open house I decided to drop in an say hello. They finally kicked me out when I kept asking "HOW much does it cost?"

Pretty prime real estate right off Dupont Circle.

THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN · Post by **THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:30 pm

blyslv wrote:I was more then a little drunk and walking past the DC headquarters of the scientologists. Since they were having an open house I decided to drop in an say hello. They finally kicked me out when I kept asking "HOW much does it cost?"

Pretty prime real estate right off Dupont Circle.

they always have prime realestate. so does christian science monitor.
not always easy to find though.

Businesses selling Religion

Businesses selling Religion

damned pesky morals