Shade Structure

psilence · Post by **psilence** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:43 pm

Hi,

I was curious about what I should be using for a shade structure. Most of the things I've seen would be hard for me to assemble seeing as I'm not much of a carpenter, I've been reading the forums and other desert survival sites and it would seem that besides something to sleep in a shade structure is probably the most vital part of your camp.

I thought that something along the lines of this, http://www.acecanopy.com/canopyenc10x10-1w75.html would suffice and more. I'm hoping that I can set it up and secure it against the wind with rebar and parachute cord and put my tent and all my amenities in it, using it as a base of operations. Would this work against the elements on the playa? I need something that can keep the sun out all day, and the only other canopies I've seen wouldn't have met this condition. Myself and the friend I'm attending with plan to sleep all day and go out all night, because neither of us is a huge fan of wandering the desert on a cloudless day. I know being out in the desert we won't be able to avoid the heat, but the fact of the matter remains that we're both really just, night owls.

Suggestions?

Thank you,
-Joe

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:38 pm

Hey Joe,
Do a search on "costco carports" there was a lot of chat last year.
I have 2 and buying 1 more this year...

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:19 pm

Looks decent, but 10x10 is smaller than you might think. Most of the standard carports are in the 10x20 range which will just fit a couple of tents and small lounging area for a few people. Keep your eye out for sales and as mentioned, check Costco every now and then to see what they have. It's probably best to buy in person so you can see how sturdy the poles are. Avoid the ones with flexy PVC legs.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:44 am

What are you going to be driving, Psi? If it's something with a roof rack, then you have superhandy spots to anchor additional shade. A good way to supplement those carports without much work or expense.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:29 am

I'd love to see this on playa

of course I'm not sure of either affordability or durability

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:01 am

I bet the metal pole version would do well, as long as it was staked and guyed well... Plenty of under-tarp ventillation.

I was looking at those, too... If I were a rich girl...

Hugz,
bb

phil · Post by **phil** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:05 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I'd love to see this on playa
>SNIP

That is so dropdeadgorgeous. Here's another picture:

I fear it would be shredded on the playa, but it's just so beautiful. We've got photos of similar beachside restaurants on St. Barths at
http://civex.smugmug.com/gallery/481413

We'll be there in February, dining on the beach. No need for the propane heaters on tropical islands.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:11 pm

psilence wrote:Hi,

I was curious about what I should be using for a shade structure. Most of the things I've seen would be hard for me to assemble seeing as I'm not much of a carpenter, I've been reading the forums and other desert survival sites and it would seem that besides something to sleep in a shade structure is probably the most vital part of your camp.

I thought that something along the lines of this, http://www.acecanopy.com/canopyenc10x10-1w75.html would suffice and more. I'm hoping that I can set it up and secure it against the wind with rebar and parachute cord and put my tent and all my amenities in it, using it as a base of operations. Would this work against the elements on the playa? I need something that can keep the sun out all day, and the only other canopies I've seen wouldn't have met this condition. Myself and the friend I'm attending with plan to sleep all day and go out all night, because neither of us is a huge fan of wandering the desert on a cloudless day. I know being out in the desert we won't be able to avoid the heat, but the fact of the matter remains that we're both really just, night owls.

Suggestions?

Thank you,
-Joe

Don't worry about constructing your own shade. Some people who go like to design/build their own shade structures from scratch.

I don't think that picture matches the description. For one thing, it looks like the carport in that picture has more than 4 legs (per the description). Also, 10x10 would be a square and that is not a square. I point this out because the picture shows more space than I think you will have with a 10x10.

If you're going to get carport, you might as well get a 10x20. This will give you lots of space for two people and a shaded "outside" area (outside your hot tent) to hang out in, especially if you have people over.

I have two carports, both 10x20. The Costco one has one-piece legs. This makes it a lot more sturdy in the wind. It also makes it a pain to transport because the legs are at least 6 feet long (probably longer, can't remember right this minute).

The other one (from Northern Tool) has two-piece legs that come apart. I used the second one at a regional event. It's a lot more flimsy simply because of how it goes together but I never got the wind load on it I did at Burning Man proper, so I'm not sure how sturdy it is. The advantage to this one is that it's easier to transport because the whole thing (tarp, legs and all) folds down into a box that's only about 3'x4'.

One other factor I just thought of is ease of assembly. The Costco model with the one-piece legs seemed to be easier to put together. It's also a lot more secure when it comes to guying it down (this year, which was a very mild year when WE were there, we used only 4 guys with 15" plastic stakes knowing that we could add more guylines if the wind got as crazy as it did earlier in the week).

By the way, if you're considering buying a carport-type shade structure without sides -- don't. You'll want the sides for the additional shade, privacy, noise abatement, etc.

Regarding rebar: I personaly think it's overkill. Use rebar if you can but don't feel bad if you don't.

Why parachute cord? What's wrong with rope or very long ratchet ties (our preference)?

Anyway, that's my three cents. I'm sure others will have different experiences and opinions.

Atar · Post by **Atar** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:25 pm

Eventhough I prolly won't be fabricating my own shadestructures, this site seems very handy:
http://www.softcom.net/users/rocksci/bman/shelter.htm

phil · Post by **phil** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:41 pm

Hi, psi,

As others have said, 10x10 may not fit your needs. I have a 10x10, and our tent won't fit under it and still provide room for living. I assume you know the dimensions of your tent -- do the math and see if it fits. If you don't care whether you get anything else under the shade, then no problem. (At night, who cares if you eat and rest under the shade, right?) My suggestion is that you have more room than the tent will take up so you can keep your ice chests out of the tent but in the shade, along with some other gear that you want out of the hot car - whatever.

If you want real shade, I'd suggest something that is opaque to infrared, and the carport shown in your link is not opaque. Our shade has the silver tarp on top, and it is IR opaque. We use the white sides as shown on your prospective shade since the sun isn't shining down on them as directly as on the roof.

Putting sides around the shade traps heat. Makes it like your tent or your car. We use sides on two sides only. We keep the south side on till night and move the east side to the west when the sun starts shining into our shade from that side. Having two sides completely open allows for full air flow and keeps the interior of the shade at ambient temperature.

Others will have other ideas and better ones, I'm sure. If this is your first time at BM, then be prepared to try stuff and have it not suit your needs; next time you'll get it better, and the time after that better still.

My shade came with the roof and two sides, ball bungee fasteners, and joints, but no poles, I went to the local store that sold chain link fences and bought the poles as described by my vendor. This meant I saved on shipping the poles. My longest poles are 10 feet, by the way. Sturdy, but a bear to haul if you don't have the commercial cargo van we rent. :-)

You will need to rebar and tie the shade down. Have something as a back up in case of complete failure.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:06 pm

phil, I worried about the IR blocking and even considered getting IR-blocking material but the material in our Costco model blocked the sun sufficiently (real shade, not the semi-shade you get with some kinds of material).

I think phil might be referring to this website: http://www.creativeshelters.com/

You buy the tarp, bungees, etc. from them and get the expensive-to-ship conduit or chain link post at your local hardware store. I thought about doing this (in fact, I spent weeks figuring out what to do about shelter) but the pre-built carport was simply a lot easier, more economical and I didn't have to worry my design failing. If you *do* decide to go this route keep in mind that you can get used materials for the legs from salvage yards (the kinds that take apart houses and sort everything by type).

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:52 am

HughMungus wrote:phil, I worried about the IR blocking and even considered getting IR-blocking material but the material in our Costco model blocked the sun sufficiently (real shade, not the semi-shade you get with some kinds of material).

My problem is vitiligo -- I have sections of skin where my melanocytes are dead. It doesn't tan at all there, and there's a serious danger of skin cancer from getting burned repeatedly. I do over-consider IR, but it's also about heat -- keeping the roof opaque completely makes it noticeably cooler under the tarp. Everybody's mileage varies, and if the heat coming through isn't as big a problem for others, that's better for them.

I think phil might be referring to this website: http://www.creativeshelters.com/

Actually, that wasn't the site -- I can't remember it, and there are dozens if not more, so that's as good a place as any. The photo looks identical, except we've got the 10x10, and the 10x20 is shown.

>SNIP<
If you *do* decide to go this route keep in mind that you can get used materials for the legs from salvage yards (the kinds that take apart houses and sort everything by type).

Very good idea. I hadn't thought of that. Our poles were bent this year during the Monday dust storms, and we already bought replacements, but I'll scrounge up some salvage yards to keep in mind for next year. Thanks.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:48 pm

Okay, I'm hopelessly romantic in my way. Those lovely gorgoues tents that have been made for centuries not standing up to playa condistions? Sniff. NOt that I've heard that they'll stand up to monsoons either...

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:21 pm

Regarding the Raj tents...

They're in the same price range as Pacific Yurts and Pacific Domes, prettier than either (barely) and one HELL of a lot more economical than the similar Makhzen tents from Morocco. 'Course those are hand-made, one at a time, by an entire village, and are 100% silk, and the price ($30,000 and up) reflects.

I probably won't be getting one anytime soon, finances aside. I have a yurt already and it's proven its Playa worthiness over the course of many years, so I'm in no hurry to replace it. I do like the "metal vs. bamboo" frame option they give, though.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:07 pm

/quote]

My problem is vitiligo -- I have sections of skin where my melanocytes are dead. It doesn't tan at all there, and there's a serious danger of skin cancer from getting burned repeatedly. I do over-consider IR, but it's also about heat -- keeping the roof opaque completely makes it noticeably cooler under the tarp.

[quote]

My oldest girl has the same on her legs. As for me and my age, I found last year I could wear a sweat shirt and sweat pants. My shin stayed cool in the heat of the day. The sweat layed on the skin keeping me water cooled.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:15 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Okay, I'm hopelessly romantic in my way. Those lovely gorgoues tents that have been made for centuries not standing up to playa condistions? Sniff. NOt that I've heard that they'll stand up to monsoons either...

Well, I'm sure they've been made for centuries and that those tents stood up to worse than the playa has to offer, but the tents on that web site aren't the same as those centuries old shades, I fear. But I tell you what, buy one and take it next year, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong. :-)

CLARKcon · Post by **CLARKcon** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:53 pm

We constructed our own, which also means cheaper and stronger. (The second year out, bought a flimsy ANY-MART shade screen, and it dissenigrated two days in.) The idea is so simple it hurts. Look online for PVC. The materials for a 10 x 10 ft. warhammer sunsheild:
- 8 pieces 10 ft. long/ 4" diam. PVC tubing
- 4 pieces 7 or 8 ft. long/ 4" diam. PVC tubing (may need to saw off from 4 more qty. 10 ft. lengths.)
- 4 tripod 90 degree angled PVC coupling joints/ 4.25" diam. opening.
- 10 x 20 ft. tarp w/eyelets
- couple packages of zipties
1.) Just pop 4 10 ft. lengths into the joints horizontally to make a base, 2.) put the (4) 7 or 8 ft. lenghts into the joints vertically.
3.) Put the other four joint caps on your vertical poles and put the other 4 10 ft. lengths into the joints. Yeah, a rectangle! Stretch the tarp over top and down a backing side, ziptieing the eyelets along the way.
PRO'S: Super strong, re-useable, easy set up
CON'S: Length, may need to cut the zipties away in case of hellacious windstorm (hence the couple bags of ties.)
COST: Shouldn't be more than $75-80.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:27 pm

Yeah, a rectangle! Stretch the tarp over top and down a backing side,

If I'm reading you correctly, you have a flat roof. Louise and I did that for years, then one year it rained an appreciable amount. The rain water collected on the waterproof canvas we were using and saggged it down an alarming amount - we were out when it rained and weren't there to drain the roof. We were using metal conduit, and I was pleasantly surprised it held up. We've gone over to the peaked roof side to prevent a collapse if we have more rain.

If I were using your method, I'd bring some extra PVC in case of breakage and have some care about what I left under the shade in the event of rain on the roof.

nogganoodle · Post by **nogganoodle** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:41 am

Where would be the cheapest easiest place to buy some kind of structure on arrival in the US (San Francisco) be? We won't be able to fit anything in our rucksacks and so will need SOMETHING to stop us roasting to death in our tent.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:18 am

I'm on the wrong coast to tell you EXACTLY where in SanFran to get your shade stuff, but if it were me I'd head for a bigbox home store or building supplies purveyor and purchase 2x4 standard lengths. As long as you pack a hammer , nails and some sheets, you can build what you need. Possibly pick up a tarp or two as well. That way you're left with very little that you'll need to discard before flying home- You might end up having to burn the lumber, but odd are that someone will glean it from near the burn platforms. (Don't just leave it and assume, though!) Assembly might be quicker with a cordless drill and drywall screws, but then you have to lug the drill and charger, and be able to recharge it.

nogganoodle · Post by **nogganoodle** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:41 am

Would felt be a suitable cover or am I asking for trouble?

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:04 am

Felt? Is American felt the same as UK felt? (Just asking, like biscuits and cookies). The sort of fuzzy stuff used in crafts and to cover pool tables?

Um, expensive, hot?, and would collect dust like crazy which is a pain even if you're going to chuck it later. Doesn't seem like it would fare welll in the rain, and I can't recall seeing it at the big home improvement stores.

Nah, things such as plastic tarps and bedsheets or painter's dropcloths would do fine. Big-ass spring clamps are your friends too, perfect for emergency adjustments to the angle of shade protection.

If you're going with disposable as oppposed to burnable, you'll need to read the section on where the waste stations/landfills are near Reno.

nogganoodle · Post by **nogganoodle** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:27 am

I'm having a nightmare trying to figure out what to take. I thought felt would be a bad idea but I can't decide on what else. A gazebo may be ok as they are cheap but will I be able to anchor it properly. I'm goona have gone mad by the time the actual festival comes round if I don't sort it out.

Aargh..........

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:57 am

nogganoodle wrote:I'm having a nightmare trying to figure out what to take. I thought felt would be a bad idea but I can't decide on what else. A gazebo may be ok as they are cheap but will I be able to anchor it properly. I'm goona have gone mad by the time the actual festival comes round if I don't sort it out.

Here's the story, nogganoodle -- you won't get it sorted out, you'll go and have a wonderful time, realize how you can do it better next year, and then you will.

Here are a couple of links to Louise's and my Web page to get you started on acquiring stuff in Reno instead of in San Francisco, to save carting it over the Sierras:
http://www.cieux.com/bm/bmtoc.html#perennialGuides
http://www.cieux.com/bm/bmtoc.html#renoResources

An alternative suggesion is to deal directly with Twin Cities Surplus (see our page on them in the Reno Resources section above). The guys at Twin Cities Surplus are used to dealing with people who fly in to Reno, buy stuff from them, then bring it back after the burn to Twin Cities Surplus and leave it. NOTE: I have never done this and have no idea how well it works for people using TCS. It might be a good thing for your first time to get a handle on what you really need.

See their website at
http://www.twincitysurplus.com/ and drop them a line now -- they do specials for Burning Man the end of summer, but if you're anxious, starting now and checking here on their recommendations might give you some anxiety relief.

Here's your best advice:
Go
Enjoy
Repeat

Davoid · Post by **Davoid** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:18 pm

psi- I, too, am I night owl, but I can tell you right now that you may find yourself very interested in some of the stuff that goes on during the day. I'll leave that for you to discover, but I'll simply say be prepared (sunblock, appropriate clothing, etc.) in case you find yourself unable to resist investigating those whoops of joy coming from across the way at 11 AM. Also, whatever shade structure you decide upon, make sure there's a good 1.5-2 feet of space between the ceiling and the top of your tent for proper ventilation, or else you may get driven from your tent by the heat of day anyway.

noggan- don't forget to hook up with your local burner community for probably the best ideas for your situation: http://regionals.burningman.com/eu_uk.html

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:56 pm

Another way you can set up a shade space, if you don't mind fairly cozy quarters, is to get a big sun umbrella and hang bedsheets from the edges. I sewed curtain rings to the edge of my 9-footer and hung a couple Indian bedspreads from that. You'll have more like a hut than a shade porch, but it's easily containable and portable and you can always pin the sides back for a more welcoming face.

You'll need at least three stout rebar kandykanes to secure the pole into the Playa and keep it from tipping over. My advice would be to tie it into your vehicle's roof to aid in the securing.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:16 pm

There might be some kewl shade ideas here:
http://www.pantherprimitives.com/

Remember to test it in a 60-mph wind tunnel before hitting the road.

nogganoodle · Post by **nogganoodle** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:36 am

cheers Phil & Diane O'Thirst, you've both been wonderfully helpful. I actually found your web-site by accident yesterday Phil and have found it a great help already. I will study it closer. You're a star!

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:54 am

You should check out Bob's website: http://www.geocities.com/potatotrap/tech/bluetarp.htm

Which is pretty much the definitive work on the subject of shade structures at Burning Man.

Also, I'd really look at going with Green Tortoise, you'll most likely save yourself a considerable amount of money in the long run.

If not Green Tortoise, perhaps a theme camp that you could contribute $$ and labor to in exchange for some communal shade. Check the theme camp lists and see if anything interests you and then send them an email explaining who you are and what you could contribute to the camp.

Zoom · Post by **Zoom** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:14 am

WE ARE PLANNING ON BRINGING A CAMOFLAUGE NET WITH US. TO USE AS OUR SHADE PROVIDER IT WOULD BE LIKE SITTING UNDER A TREE AND WHEN YOU HAVE A BREEZE IT SOUNDS LIKE LEAVES IN THE BREEZE. ARE THERE ANY REGULATIONS ON CAMO NETS IN BRC. THANK YOU AND LOVE TO ALL.

Shade Structure

Shade Structure

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