Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

[OCCAM'S SLEDGE-O-MATIC]

Irony of the week; a religion so fucking intolerant that its adherents take to the streets and beat the crap out of people and burn down buildings over a fucking cartoon.

Assholes.

Wish more people knew the truth about the koran, that it actually commands its followers to do violence against the "infidel" if the "infidel" resists being enslaved and agreeing with whatever the nearest mullah says (and there's no formal heirarchy in Islam, each minister gets to interpret the koran however he wants. I can't think of a better recipe for chaos and breeding multiple david koreshes.).

[DVD Burner]

The key is to prove that,
If those that are called "infidels" actually proved that they were not "infidels", then there would be no problem.


Fact of the matter is, the "infidels" they speak of have proven themselves true.


Where's the "WMD's"? Where’s Bin Laden? Is Halliburton still in Iraq? Where is all the money from the Oil going to that they (Halliburton.) extracted going?

Yep, I have heard that the pipelines have been blown by the so called "Insurgents". but, shouldn’t the ones that thought the policy of pre-emptive strike have figured that into the "exit Strategy" along with the looting that happened after the war started in Bagdad?

Need more questions to think about?

[cowboyangel]

hey bro what are you doin here? please find me a php script that I can use to send email petitions with? ok?

[DVD Burner]

Hey, this is the "Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night...."
thread.

[joel the ornery]

Ignorance is bliss.

you seem to lead a bliss-filled life.

[Kinetic IV]

Where did I leave that bottle of Monitor Clean again?

[SED]

It's getting hot in heare.

[OCCAM'S SLEDGE-O-MATIC]

[quote="DVD Burner"]The key is to prove that,
If those that are called "infidels" actually proved that they were not "infidels", then there would be no problem.[/quote]

o puhleeze. If Saddam's kangaroo court is any indication, trying to prove you're not an infidel is beyond impossible. Add into that mix that any mullah can twist the words of the koran to his own ends, and ANYONE, even Mohammed, could be proved an infidel.

[quote="DVD Burner"]Fact of the matter is, the "infidels" they speak of have proven themselves true.[/quote]

Please illuminate your point so I can debate you- sweeping generalities are the tools of the lazy mind.

[SED]

Before wrestling DVD try a greased hog. You'll just filthy before realize the hog enjoys it.

Will we see large demonstrations of
persian Americans outside Iranian embassies demanding open societies and a halt to their nuclear program?

[OCCAM'S SLEDGE-O-MATIC]

Well, it's not like I expected an answer that would stop me in my tracks- anyone who would side with morons rioting over a friggin cartoon is pretty much on the mat already, head spinning so hard they don't even realize they're hurt.

Think I'll go piss on a picture of Mohammed.

Now that I've marked myself as an infidel, I guess the muslims will want to kill me.

And you know what?

Big whoop.

They already want to kill fuckin EVERYBODY ANYWAYS.

What are they gonna do, kill me twice?

They must be the crankiest fuckin people on earth.

That's all right, I got a bunch of 9mm happy pills for any muslim who wants to discuss my lack of respect for their religion.

Problem is, I'll be discussing their lack of respect for our traditions, namely, freedom of speech, the rule of law, equal rights for women, not killing people just because they don't agree with you (including their own family members), and just plain slappin down assholes.

[Kinetic IV]

Shock! Honest shock!
I can't believe I just read that...but at the same time I don't disagree with a single part of it.

Problem is, I'll be discussing their lack of respect for our traditions, namely, freedom of speech, the rule of law, equal rights for women, not killing people just because they don't agree with you (including their own family members), and just plain slappin down assholes.

I love the attitude, too bad it's not infectious and can't be easily spread due to too many minds being closed.

Edit: To give credit where it's due and for sp check.

[joel the ornery]

Shock! Honest shock!
I can't believe I just read that...but at the same time I don't disagree with a single part of it.

Problem is, I'll be discussing their lack of respect for our traditions, namely, freedom of speech, the rule of law, equal rights for women, not killing people just because they don't agree with you (including their own family members), and just plain slappin down assholes.

I love the attitude, too bad it's not infectious and can't be easily spread due to too many minds being closed.

Edit: To give credit where it's due and for sp check.

well, i guess my disconnect with those not supporting USA's efforts is... why the left and the stop-the-war crowd isn't supporting the expansion of "freedom of speech, the rule of law, equal rights for women, not killing people just because they don't agree with you (including their own family members), and just plain slappin down assholes."

and i do believe the left and the stop-the-war crowd do aid the cause of terrorism against the USA and the world.

[DVD Burner]

I'm going to leave this tread alone for awhile......like a long while.....






A week or so or so........or sooooo........or so........

[lurker]

If those that are called "infidels" actually proved that they were not "infidels", then there would be no problem.

That's easy, just submit to Allah and become a muslim.

Simple.

Then you can be an even bigger part of the problem.

Kiss free speach, a free press, freedom of religion, equal rights(this includes, but is not limited to, removal of rights for women, death to homosexuals, re-introduction of slavery--among other great thrills), and a whole host of other things we take for granted goodbye--did I mention that Burning Man would go the way of the dodo in a Sharia filled world?

But don't worry, there'll be things to do.

Stoning rape victims
Watching executions
Burning out infidels(you're not one anymore, so this'll be fun)
Killing Jews


Yes, all we've got to do is prove we're not infidels. Problem solved.

Aleikum Salaam

[dr.placebo]

I have no intention of submitting to religious fascism of any stripe -- Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, or whatever -- they all want to suppress the Other. And every single person is going to be an Other in some context.

I would have an easier time with whole Iraq fiasco if I thought that it was truly in support of freedom. I don't believe that it is, and stating that skepticism does not make me a supporter of terrorists. Nor does standing against suppression at home mean that I side with suppression anywhere else in the world.

Incidentally, in this land of the free you can no longer say "make a dead man come" on TV at the Super Bowl. Even if the tune has been broadcast without censorship for about 25 years.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... index.html

[OCCAM'S SLEDGE-O-MATIC]

[quote="dr.placebo"]I have no intention of submitting to religious fascism of any stripe -- Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, or whatever -- they all want to suppress the Other. And every single person is going to be an Other in some context.

I would have an easier time with whole Iraq fiasco if I thought that it was truly in support of freedom. I don't believe that it is, and stating that skepticism does not make me a supporter of terrorists. Nor does standing against suppression at home mean that I side with suppression anywhere else in the world.

Incidentally, in this land of the free you can no longer say "make a dead man come" on TV at the Super Bowl. Even if the tune has been broadcast without censorship for about 25 years.

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... index.html[/url][/quote]

Agreed. I just happened to turn the tv on at about that moment (that was about five minutes of the 15 I caught), and I just thought, how pathetic.

I always thought the line was "make a dead man groan", so I thought it was even more pathetic.

And jeers to the stones for not having rock and roll balls anymore, having traded them in for corporate toady balls.

[cowboyangel]

<and i do believe the left and the stop-the-war crowd do aid the cause of terrorism against the USA and the world.>


then you are deluded. The people you think are providing the goods for you are the true deliverers of instability and insecurity, namely, your lying son of a bitch pres and his vile and corrupt gang of hooligans. Oh, should I spell that out?

[Bob]

and i do believe the left and the stop-the-war crowd do aid the cause of terrorism against the USA and the world.

Anybody done a survey on whether the Left uses more gasoline than the Right?

[Chai Guy]

What Would Jesus Drive?

http://www.whatwouldjesusdrive.org/

[lurker]

I would have an easier time with whole Iraq fiasco if I thought that it was truly in support of freedom. I don't believe that it is, and stating that skepticism does not make me a supporter of terrorists. Nor does standing against suppression at home mean that I side with suppression anywhere else in the world.

If you thought it was truly in support of freedom.....hmmm

And you don't?

In point of fact, it doesn't matter if it 'really' is or it isn't. It IS in support of freedom by default.

The people on the other side of the question-- the ones that are rioting, attacking and destroying over cartoons--have explicitly stated that they are against freedom.

They make no bones about it. Their signs say so, their leaders say so, their actions show that they believe that freedom(as we have it) is bad, evil, something that must be eradicated.

They are, despite any stance you might take, against YOU. Well, no, not any stance--you could become a muslim. But that's it. That's your only option. Do that and you'll be 'free' to live in a state that is more totalitarian than Orwell's Big Brother could ever have imagined.

Whatever the presidents 'real' motives might be, the success of the US--and all of the West in this is far preferable to what will happen if Islam wins.

Bush will be gone after 2008, Democrats, Republicans and(hopefully) others will be elected into and out of office. The tenor of the government will change as the people vote. But you don't get to vote for Caliph.

[dr.placebo]

Lurker, we certainly agree that the rabid mullahs are not our friends. As a believer in human rights I do think that many kinds of fundamentalists would like to make me go away. My belief is that the instigation and prosecution of the war in Iraq has made it harder to come to accomodaation with moderate Muslims, has badly split the West, and is diverting resources from the real fight against worldwide terrorism. Further, I see ample evidence of incompetence and corruption in the administration's conduct of the war.

I don't share your opinion about Iraq being a fight for freedom because I think that the results are likely to make acheiving freedom harder, not easier. That the entire Muslim world would be better off with more tolerance and respect for human rights is a hope that we likely share. I have the same hope, however slight, for our domestic religeous zealots. That this war furthers that hope is where we differ.

That we differ does not cause me to think of you as an idiot or a traitor. It does not make me wish you harm, nor does it make me desire to suppress your opinion.

[lurker]

Lurker, we certainly agree that the rabid mullahs are not our friends. As a believer in human rights I do think that many kinds of fundamentalists would like to make me go away.

Many kinds of fundamentalists would like to make lots of people go away. But the Islamic type is, right now, killing people to make them go away. As a believer in human rights you surely must differentiate between someone holding a sign that says 'god hates fags'(Did you know that Fred Phelps--the god hates fags guy--is a Democrat? And that the Gore campaign used office space donated by his church? That he was an invited guest at Clinton/Gore's inaugural? I just found that out), and states who agree with that sentiment and actually, 'legally', kill homosexuals. There is a vast difference between, say, Christian fundamentalists, who are not in power, and who have had their claws pulled long ago, and Islamic fundamentalists who ARE in power and ARE inciting ACTUAL violence in the name of their faith. Conflating all fundamentalists is a disingenuous tactic--they are not all the same.

My belief is that the instigation and prosecution of the war in Iraq has made it harder to come to accomodaation with moderate Muslims, has badly split the West, and is diverting resources from the real fight against worldwide terrorism. Further, I see ample evidence of incompetence and corruption in the administration's conduct of the war.

I have to say that I don't believe that 'moderate' muslims represent a large group. From what I've seen and heard, at a distance as well as first hand, those the West calls 'moderates' are considered to be barely above apostates--if not actual apostates. I think the endless banking on this is hamstringing the effort.

While I see the 'split', I can only hope that people will come to their senses before its too late. Sadly, that does not mean that hostilities will end. It means that they will begin in earnest.

And I do see incompetance--though I think we'll disagree about the nature of it. The administration is too concerned with polls, world 'opinion', and the endless quest to justify what they're doing in the eyes of people who refuse all rational explanations. This has hurt us immensely.

I don't share your opinion about Iraq being a fight for freedom because I think that the results are likely to make acheiving freedom harder, not easier.

Iraq is NOT a fight for freedom. It's a battle in a much larger conflict. Winning in Iraq is a step towards winning that conflict.

We have achieved freedom. Now we must fight to keep it. If the Iraqis are freed in our fight to keep our freedom, so much te better. The more free people there are, the less war there will be.

That the entire Muslim world would be better off with more tolerance and respect for human rights is a hope that we likely share. I have the same hope, however slight, for our domestic religeous zealots. That this war furthers that hope is where we differ

.

The Islamic world is controlled by a theocratic system that is vehemently against personal freedom--particularly those we have. They have been waging war, in one form or another, since Islam first held sway over the region, against the West. We have prospered despite this. They have not.

This is a war that will have to be fought until Islam has a reformation--or is gone. I don't see any real other option at this time. Declaring 'victory' and getting out will not bring peace. Diplomatic efforts will not bring peace.

We're at a horrible crossroad in human history. The last bit of the Enlightenment is going to be a war. Reason conquered theocratic Christianity, as it conquered theocratic Judaism long before. Now Islam must have it's claws pulled.

Would that I could this come about with no death, no war. But it can't. Islam is not designed to go quietly.

[EvilDustBooger]

We're at a horrible crossroad in human history. The last bit of the Enlightenment is going to be a war. Reason conquered theocratic Christianity, as it conquered theocratic Judaism long before. Now Islam must have it's claws pulled.

Would that I could this come about with no death, no war. But it can't. Islam is not designed to go quietly..

REASON? Can you imagine the effect these words could have if spoken by G.Dub or Tony Blaire or some other important world figure?

We truly are at a crossroads...

Wars based on religion or clashing civilizations can be particularly foul
and long lasting. History has proved this time and again since the days of
Isaac and Ishmael...

The true irony is that religions are designed to promote world harmony at an individual level...
But individuals band together and do the most amazingly insane things.

I hope that we as individuals, governments, and religions can see the
need to tread very lightly when it comes to respecting others religious or civic views, holding our personal doctrines and dogmas to their highest purposes to/and reform the violent adversity that radical fundementalism brings to any religion or creed.
Leaders, both religious AND political, need to stress even more
the true importance of tolerance and understanding when dealing with these volitile issues with very different civilizations and views... and we, their rightful constituents, need to see that they do. This is a very personal responsibility that needs to be implemented on the streets as well as the halls of governments, and the pulpits of our churches...
...but most importantly in all of our fragile little black hearts...

..Leaders can`t lead >>> if they don`t have followers

[lurker]

This clash of civilizations is not between religions. It's between those who understand that a civilzed world has to show tolerence for the varying thoughts and opinions of all it's peoples and a theocratic faith that insists, to the point of bloodshed, that it doesn't.

This disagreement is so fundamental that we cannot even talk about it. Though we may use the same words we are not speaking the same language.

Followers tend to simply mill about without leaders. Very few have the courage to lead. Any idiot can rule, but leaders...they are few and far between.

We could use one now. But, alas, I think we'll just get more rulers

[Dr BENWAYLADEN]

WRAP 'EM UP IN BACON...



General Pershing was in charge of a U.S. garrison in the Philippines in 1911. It seems his soldiers were subjected to a series of terror attacks by Filipino Muslims. Pershing did not try to put together a "road map." Nor did he set up study groups to find out why the Muslims hated the Americans. Nor did he offer them a series of "good will gestures." Nor did he put up a giant wall to keep them out. Instead, he captured fifty of those Muslim terrorists. He then had them dig their own graves. He then tied all up to posts execution style. He then dipped fifty bullets in pig's blood. You see, Muslims murders may not have a problem with soaking their hands into Jewish blood but NO WAY do they want anything to do with the skin, blood or 'guts' of a pig. Should they be contaminated by any of these pig parts, they will go to Muslim Hell, not Muslim Paradise!

And so, on the count of three, all but one of those Paradise-seeking Islamists were shot dead! Their bodies were them wrapped in the skins of freshly-killed pigs and dropped into the giant hole. Above them were poured the entrails and other porcine remains. You may ask, "Why was one Muslim spared?" The answer is simple. This sole surviving Muslim was released and sent back to his fellow 'mujahedin' to report what he had just witnessed. For the next 42 years there was not a single Muslim attack!



I'm just saying. ~GB~

[dr.placebo]

In guerilla warfare it is difficult to distinguish between "soldiers" and "civilians", so both become targets, often for both sides. That brutality inspires fear is not disputed. That it may inspire resistance, and that it takes its toll among those inflicting it, is less recognized. In warfare the use of brutality is common. That does not make it especially effective.

By the numbers, World War II holds the record for casualties. Millions more civilians than military died. Brutality inspired more brutality. Only the inability of one side to wage effective resistance stopped the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wo ... by_country

There is also the moral argument against brutality, but this post is already long enough.

[Dr BENWAYLADEN]

I proved your point didn’t I ~GB~ ...Oh wait

[DVD Burner]

I know you guys miss me posting here so let me get this one in, cause I'm having a difficult time trying to figure this out.....





If anyone can answer it so I can understand, it would be fab.

I always thought that quail hunting was a ground sport. How does one get shot in the face, neck and chest with this "so called" sport?

[Bin Noddin]

A dog flushes them out and they are shot on the wing. I wonder how high Cheney's quail was flying?

[Lassen Forge]

It wasn't quail, it was pheasant. Dogs flush pheasant, they take off hard and fast - and erratic (to avoid the birdshot - they ain't stupid!!). It's the whole basis behind trap shooting (one of my favorite pastimes, BTW - should that go under "things you never knew about me"? - is shooting sports, including multi-house trap simulating pheasants flushing.)

I realy hate to say this - you have NO idea how much it pains me - Really, seriously, you don't... but I feel sorry for both the guy who was shot *and* Cheney.

Think about it this way - you and a friend are out having fun, and something you do puts your friend in the hospital pretty seriously. Yeah, I bet Cheny feels pretty shitty. Not to mention his hunting buddy... Bet he really REALLY feels shitty!

Now... putting it in persoective - had they maintained their field of aim (10:00-2:00) no one would have gotten hurt. Maybe Mr, VP ought to go thru a Hunter's safety and education course???

I really know what happened - same mistake made on the board. Someone saw a bird flush and mis-ID'd it. Yelled "There's a Quail" and Cheny, looking around, mistook his hunting bud for a Quayle...

BLAM.

>wink<

bb