ACRYLIC ROD WANTED NEEDED

nayfie · Post by **nayfie** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:41 pm

SEEKING ACRYLIC ROD OR FIBERGLASS ROD OR TUBING OR ?

25 FOOT LENGTHS OR ?

1/2 INCH OR ?

LOTS! AND LOTS!

THANX!

Post by **Eric** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:06 pm

In the SF Bay area I recommend Tap Plastics.

http://www.tapplastics.com/

I've usually had really good luck with them.

If you don't mind paying for shipping, Canal Plastics in NYC has an amazing selection of goodies crammed into a tiny store. The boyfriend had to restrain me from trying to carry a ton of their stuff home on the plane after I found them.

http://www.canalplasticscenter.com/

Hope this helps.

willowRage · Post by **willowRage** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:28 am

I was going to recommend TAP Plastics but I've been beaten to it. So I'll just second that motion.

nayfie · Post by **nayfie** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:51 pm

thanx guys....i tried tap but they only have 6 foot lengths and they REFUSE to special order for me. nice people! i am really hoping to find someone with a surplus in the back of their shop....which will prolly never happen but theres always hope...! oh and also fear...

thanks again!

willowRage · Post by **willowRage** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm

is bonding the shorter lengths together not suitable?

Post by **Eric** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:09 pm

nayfie wrote:thanx guys....i tried tap but they only have 6 foot lengths and they REFUSE to special order for me. nice people!

It's probably not as easy for them to do a special order as you might think. I work at a retail order desk and know the hoops we have to go through with some vendors. We have wholesale dollar and quantity minimums to meet with most of them, and what a customer wants often doesn't reach them. These can be several hundred to several thousand dollars wholesale, not retail.
They might not be able to order a small quantity in 25' lengths, and the shipping charges for something that long would be outrageous. Trust me- you would probably pay more in shipping than you would for the tubing.

willowRage has the right idea- you might want to talk to the people at Tap about how to join shorter lenghts.

willowRage · Post by **willowRage** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:14 pm

Tap sells acryllic adhesive that basically melts one section into another. I guess it all depends on how much stress will end up being on the joint. 1/2 inch acryllic rod isn't that strong to begin with so imagine the use will be minimally stressing. If you go to Tap just look on the shelf for a red tubes with a black plastic cap.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:53 pm

Good points all. If we knew what exactly you were going to use them for, we might be able to think of something.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:10 pm

Tap plastics is great for popping in and getting small amounts of stuff but not necessarily so good at big orders. I'd recommend going the low-tech route and calling up places listed under "plastics" in the yellow pages. Not sure acrylic rod comes in 25' lengths, but if it does the industrial suppliers can get it for you.

Can you describe what you want them for in greater detail? Such as, does it need to be clear? Or colored a certain way? Can it be opaque? Is it mounted to something else or does it need to be free-standing? Were you planning on lighting it in some way? Perhaps there's something cheaper or easier to source that you could use. My first thought would be to use some sort of hose and mount it to something. It will be harder to get it perfectly straight, but will definitely come in the lengths you need and could be cheaper.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:14 pm

Not sure if this will work for you in place of your acrylic rod, but they do make a CLEAR PVC sprinkler pipe. You would have to search it out.. Irrigation part house. Might have to make a batch of cookies for the counter guys..

nayfie · Post by **nayfie** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:52 pm

OOPS! i meant 15 foot lengths....

you guys have been really helpful and i sure do appreciate it.

i suppose i could "weld" them together. i have considered this previously. this will not achieve the look i'm going for with my playa art project.

i was just bummed at tap because i asked them if i can do a special order and the response i got was "this is how we get them from our supplier". when i asked for the name / contact info for the supplier, i got the cold shoulder. they were NOT very helpful and actually quite rude!

they made it seem like i was asking for their safe combination. trust me, i am well aware of the HUGE COST involved. one of their 6 foot lengths is like 7 dollars and i need 550 peices at 15 foot lengths....this is why i was looking to score a surplus or SOMETHING. i will look into the pvc pipe idea. sounds like that might be a good thing.
the material i'm looking for MUST be clear or opaque. i guess colored would be o.k. but it's not what i'm looking for. opaque white might be neat too. i'm open for suggestions. thank you all!

Post by **Eric** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:04 pm

nayfie wrote:i was just bummed at tap because i asked them if i can do a special order and the response i got was "this is how we get them from our supplier". when i asked for the name / contact info for the supplier, i got the cold shoulder. they were NOT very helpful and actually quite rude!

they made it seem like i was asking for their safe combination.

this is an aside, but again from a retail order desk perspective, you were asking for the equivalent of the safe combination. Vendor information is generally held as propriatery by companies. I for one would lose my job if I gave out any vendor info not easily found on the item itself. On something without vendor information, I can't give any. This is fairly standard retail- especially in the age of the internet when anyone can go to your source and undercut you.

I wasn't there so I don't know how rude they were, but I can tell you that when a customer presses me for vendor information I tell them they have to hire me with a bonus of a years salary in advance to get it- and I'm managment, I ain't cheap. What you percieved as rudeness may have been them just tired of answering the same question. This is not to defend them, since, as I said, I wasn't there for the conversation. This is just to inform you of the other side.

Back to the question at hand- 15' is still going to be expensive to ship. If you don't need the tubing to be clear, PVC pipe might be your best bet. Just be aware of the fact that it breaks down out on the playa (look up a thread on dome construction for more info on that).

550 pieces???? Have you already figured out how to assemble what your thinking of out there? Could you give us some more info so maybe we can toss ideas out to help you refine your idea?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:11 am

Mcmaster Carr also only lists 6' lengths. Anything longer would be pretty unwieldy. If opaque really is ok, it can be any material. Wood would be much stiffer. Anything that gets delivered on a huge spool would probably be ideal, assuming you can mount it in a way that will hold it straight. I think I've seen PVC pipe delivered this way.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:18 am

Part of the trouble with finding long sections of plastic is the same problem with wood...Observe how the cost of dimensional lumber increases as the length passes 10'. Except for highly specialized industrial or architectural applications, plastic tubing and rod stock isn't cut particularly long and to do so requires resetting and even retooling, plantside. My suggestion is to look at surplus and salvage options as well- many times I've found a solution completely out of left field, or a bargain on a particular run of a material that's usually not a financial option.

Of course, we're all still in the dark about your project....

nayfie · Post by **nayfie** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:57 am

i understand that vendor info is sacred...i'm over it. i realized a long while ago that i have to do this on my own. i have been looking in LA and other over-populated cities of industry.

i guess opaque wouldn't work....i meant transluscent....sorry people i get confused sometimes....it's the medication.

okay here is my "BIG SECRET PROJECT" :

15 foot tall "tree" made from clear acrylic rod. 12 - 15" base with "branches" illuminated by an l.e.d. stoplight.

ever seen the fiber-optic type lights that sway to and fro in the breeze? such as the type from <ack> ikea or perhaps on some christmas decorations...also used in cheap chinese music box lamps with flowers and such... basically its a bunch of lenghts of plastic rod with a light at the bottom so the light travels through to the end of the rod. normally these are about 1 foot tall.

heres a link:

http://www.coolstuffcheap.com/fibopmoodlam.html

anyways i'm making a huge one of these. 15 feet tall. i wanted acrylic rod for the fact that its somewhat bendable and doesn't snap easily. i wanted to be sure that it doesn't break while blowing in the playa breeze.

sigh.

nayfie · Post by **nayfie** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:58 am

its funny that you say "in the dark"

lol

willowRage · Post by **willowRage** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:16 am

"somewhat bendable and doesn't snap easily"

Hmm, tough one. I'm not a plastic expert by any means but the materials that come to mind are not suitable for this set up. Standard issue acryllic at 1/2" isn't particularly light conductive over great distances. While contiguous uncut, unbonded lengths of 1/2"would likely be strong enough for your design I don't thing bonding shorter sections end to end would work. I think it would snap. Also if there is any wind like there was last year the forces on the strands would quickly fatigue acrylic and it would snap.

There is a material called Delrin that I've used before that would be strong enough but I don't know if it comes in a transparent form. I've only ever used Delrin in white opaque form.

An uncle of mine used to lay fiber optic cable for a living. I've seen 1/2 to 1 inch diameter cables of it on large spools. It's clear on the inside and coated with heavy black plastic on the outside that is removable. While some what rigid it conducts light very well. Making large vertical lengths might require bonding it with lengths of spring steel to maintain shape but could work.

Imagigrl · Post by **Imagigrl** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:30 am

Below is a suggestion. It's $2/foot, I think. They ship it to you uncut as long as you need it. You could strip off the jacket to the point of where the light source would be. This shop sells the tools for cutting and using fiber, etc. If you email them, they might be able to give you some tips on how to make your artistic vision work. I am assuming that you're looking to create a long spider's web line effect on the playa. Hope this helps.

http://stores.ebay.com/Fiber-Optic-Products

"Fiber Optic Lighting Cable - End Glow 25 Strand

You are buying by the foot jacketed fiber optic lighting cable which contains 25 strands of .75mm fiber. The cable is extruded within a black UV stable PVC jacket and may be used both indoors and outdoors. The outer diameter of the cable is 6.35mm/ .250" If you order a quantity of 20, you will receive 20' of cable.

This versatile fiber is particularly well suited to low-cost simple illumination and demonstration applications such as illuminated maps, lights for model railroads/airplanes, holiday lighting/ornaments and embroidering into fabric. It also has the advantage of color changing, safety, low power consumption, and low maintenance.

Other applications include easy do-it-yourself signs and illuminations, star field ceilings/backdrops, pool & spa lighting & landscape lighting. This cable contains Mitsubishi brand fiber which the best quality in terms of durability & light transmission.

Characteristics & Benefits

*
End Emitting Light
*
Low Cost
*
Superior Quality Fiber & Jacket
*
Easier to Install Compared to Raw Fiber
*
Indoor & Outdoor Use
*
UV Stable PVC Jacketing - Black
*
Very Flexible
*
Contains No Heat or Electricity
*
Contains .75mm Plastic Optical Fiber
*
Color and Twinkle Capabilities
*
Maintenance Free

Applications

* Starfield Ceilings & Backdrops
* Landscape Lighting
* Club and Entertainment Venues
* Color Washing
* Pool/Spa Lighting with Underwater Fixtures
* Downlighting
* Artwork
* Model Lighting
* Special Effects

* Recommended Illuminator: 75W - 200W Halogen for Starfields and Paver/Tile surfaces. 150W Metal Halide for downlighting, color washing, landscape lighting or pool/spa lighting. The amount of strands the cable contains is directly proportional to the amount of light emitted. Larger strand sizes (1.0mm) will emitt more glow.
* For cutting use a clippers or scissors. Cut jacket with utility knife to expose individual fibers. Hot Knife cutting allows for proper termination at the fiber bundle and increases brightness and efficiency.
* Star Ceiling Instructions can be viewed in our eBay store pages.
* Check out our eBay store for other cables and accessories!
* Email or call 320 249 8002 with questions or project information.

Payment & Shipping

Payment Options: PayPal or Money Orders

Please provide confirmed PayPal address with payment.

Once payment is processed, all items are shipped within 1-3 business days if not immediately. Winning bidder must pay for item within 7 days of auction close. Winning bidder will be contacted within 24 hours of auction close with an email including invoice and payment information.

Shipping is typically USPS Priority 2-3 day and includes tracking. Tracking numbers will not be emailed unless requested. Shipping for United States: $9.95 Canada: $12.95. Regardless of order size. International will be determined after auction close. International shipping methods may be chosen by customer. Insurance is not included, however recommended for an additional $1.30. We guarantee complete satisfaction in all our products. Unless product is damaged or defective, a 25% restocking fee may be issued on returns.

This cable is sold by the foot. The cable contains 25 individual strands of .75mm fiber w/ Black PVC jacket. Illuminator is not included. Email with questions."

Imagigrl · Post by **Imagigrl** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:41 am

What you could do for the tree effect is buy some clear tubing that they sell by the foot, uncut at Home Depot or Lowe's or some such place then insert each tube 'branch' with strands of fiber optic fillament.

http://www.usplastic.com/ sells it by the foot, uncut as long as you need it, and cheap. There are many types of clear, bendable, sturdy tubing. With the fiber optic fillament, you can vary the light color and light movement per strand. The EBay store can point you in the right direction on how to manipulate the fillament and its light sources.

willowRage · Post by **willowRage** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:52 am

You'd still have the same problem of having to reinforce clear tubing though. Thinner and narrow diameters are cheap but too flimsy to stand on their own. Thicker and wider don't lend themselves to the sort of movement one would want for this project and the larger sizes have a nasty habit of keeping, at least bit, their curved shape on the spool over much length.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:42 am

I was starting to think along the line of flexible tubing too...It's a lot cheaper, and can sometimes be scrounged from hospitals. NOT from their biohazard dumpsters, but from frequent purges of "expired" nasal cannulae and IV drip hose, in sealed packages that health agencies are required by law to dump after their expiration dates. (Hospitals throw away DISGUSTING amounts of stuff. I used to make my coworkers show me everything before it went in the dumpster!)
The tubing could be slid over a wire armature, which wouldn't be translucent but would at least be sturdy. Agreed, acrylic would be problematic on-playa. Brittle. Lotsa wicked little shards after that first gust of wind.
If you've got the scratch, fiber optic would be pretty darn nifty looking. Clear resin over metal would have interesting properties too.

Imagigrl · Post by **Imagigrl** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:17 pm

Yeah that's what US Plastics has... "be scrounged from hospitals."... hospital grade clear tubing of different types of medium... plastic, vinyl, etc.

There is 1/4" thick+, 1"+ diameter tubing at most warehouses/Ho' Depots too. The tubing is actually pretty light weight for only 15'. Think about a standard garden hose weight. The same goes for the cable. I don't think shipping will get too expensive. With a hospital grade clear tubing, one could run bundles of fiber optic fillament and it would be bendy, but firm. If you need to add 1/4" thick wire or maybe get some comparable surplus/used/weathered copper tubing then you could add the sturdiness you need to keep the tree from just falling over. I would create a sturdy base for the trunch and branches to lock into somehow. The base could also house the power source. We're using a $60 800 watt power inverter hooked up to a cheap car battery as our power source this year. Maybe you should make a scaled down model of your design first to see how well it would work.

Imagigrl · Post by **Imagigrl** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:24 pm

On sale at e-bay:

1000 feet of .75mm Mitsubishi Eska CK30 Fiber Filament = $60.00

You won't need nearly that much. I'm sure $5-10 would get you what you need. Get the tossed out tubing from the hospital. Get the surplus wire. The hardest and most expensive part would be figuring out the illumation.

Okay, I've spazzed out now.

Good luck with your project and be ready to celebrate 20 years of The Man this summer!!

nayfie · Post by **nayfie** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:16 pm

yes it will have a very sturdy base - which will hold the battery and light source.i am constantly re-imagining this project and theres so many different ways i can go. my installation last year was a fantastic learning experience as far as dealing with the elements goes....trust me i will be ready! and i absolutley will test and re-test everything before bringing it out. i don't like surprises whatsoever. (well sometimes but not this kind)

i actually am crafting a scaled-down version soon. maybe i will display that one at camp.

thank you all so very much for your input and help and suggestions. i'm feeling like there is much hope for this project in spite of my slim wallet!

nayfie · Post by **nayfie** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:17 pm

- and hopefully repay you with a beautiful art installation! thanx again!

loco · Post by **loco** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:24 am

Your idea is wonderful! If it is an ever changing art idea have you considered making your “tree” a willow tree? The inexpensive tubing could be used and if scrounging is an option for you different widths could be used.

Post by **Eric** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:59 pm

nayfie wrote:yes it will have a very sturdy base - which will hold the battery and light source.

I've been looking at your inspirtation picture & trying to mash-up in my head some ideas to help. If you make the base a center pole intead (more tree-like) with the tubing coming off of it, it would reduce the lengths you would need for all but the lower strands. Even if you only use the 6' lengths, your Light Tree Thingie would be 12' across (6' on either side of the central pole)- thats pretty damn wide.

The worry part of this is that people are going to want to play with the "branches"- especially at night. The base is going to need to be strong enough for that, as well as the wind.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes out!

griffin · Post by **griffin** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:07 pm

How about using cheap vinal tubing, then running EL wire through each tube. Might hike up the cost a bit, but it would solve the illumination problem. The tubing can't support itself, but I think if you put some kind of metal rod through the bottom 1/4 - 1/2 of each length of tubing, you would get a cool effect. That would cause it to stand straight up for a while, then bend toward the ground. Again, I realize that it's more to buy, but you can probobly find scraps someplace.

ACRYLIC ROD WANTED NEEDED

ACRYLIC ROD WANTED NEEDED

An affordable source for what you may be thinking of...

And...