Official Discussion about the Danish Newspaper Cartoon Issue

[dragonfly Jafe]

...here is a thread for those that want to discuss the issue of the Cartoons the Newspaper in Denmark published that much of the Muslim world have taken offense to...

Please keep other threads free of further discussion on this issue...

[Elliot]

Very good. I may or may not want to discuss it, but now we have a place to refer people to when the topic comes up.

Oh, and... Everyone has had a chance to see the cartoons on countless web sites, so we may not even need to post them here. Something about not letting "them" drag us down to their level? Discussing the topic frankly while showing "admirable restraint" might be our most noble approach.

(Then again, what the @#$%^&* do I know! )

[dragonfly Jafe]

...we may not even need to post them here....

I would vote against re-posting them on this forum. They can easily be found elsewhere, reposting them here serves no purpose other than catering to those too lazy even to type a few words into a search engine (and anyone that can get here can get to a search engine).

I personally did not find them very funny, but then maybe I am missing something.

Of greater interest to me is the effect of control that this will inevitably have (including here), one that could be argued to border censorship. I bet few major newspapers anywhere worldwide will repeat this stunt anytime soon...and I'll bet there are some new "editorial guidelines" in place just to be on the safe side. In the future, I think we will be getting a slightly more filtered version of reality from our NEWS outlets (if that is possible).

While not in favor of censorship, I do believe that banging on this drum further without adding something to the discourse is akin to feeding a troll. This is not a country of Islam (at least not yet) - I encourage everyone to enjoy our freedoms while we can, but there is no need to hurt just because we can either.

[MoisturePup]

I personally did not find them very funny, but then maybe I am missing something.

Not all political cartoons are meant to be funny.

I find it ironic that Muslims would protest these cartoons by dressing as suicide bombers and armed militants. Even better, when they violently react to the cartoon about them being violent. It's art imitating life imitating art. It's brilliant.

What I love even more is that these protests are obviously being directed by somebody with a political agenda. Clearly since none of the people protesting in the middle eastern countries have actually seen these cartoons, just heard about them, and these countries often do not have anything but state run papers, somebody somewhere is pulling the strings like an expert puppet master.

[skygod]

I think it's a good illustration of the difference between east and west cultures.
The translation of Islam is "submit"
When Mohammed was young he was pretty tolerant. When he was older, and realized not everyone was going to convert he got cranky. The later parts of the Koran reflect this, especially the Surat.
Ummm, and there are more of them than us.

[Bob]

...here is a thread for those that want to discuss the issue of the Cartoons the Newspaper in Denmark published that much of the Muslim world have taken offense to...

Please keep other threads free of further discussion on this issue...

You must be new here.

First, you're not the boss of me.

Second, if you seriously wanted to start your own political thread having nothing to do with Burning Man, you would have posted it to Open Discussion and acted as de facto moderator, instead of starting a spite thread elsewhere.

Third, this is probably ripe for vicious parody at this year's Burning Man, though I wouldn't expect it to involve an over-the-counter art grant.

[Kinetic IV]

http://bbs.3playa.com

Perhaps someone needs to go home.

[robotland]

Personally, I'm offended by the continued inclusion of Family Circus on our nation's funny pages.

[dragonfly Jafe]

I am only trying to prevent other threads from hopelessly degenerating, you will of course make your own choice on the matter. Be your own king, I rule no one. But if history will not be your guide, it will be your judge. YMMV.

Do you have any thoughts on the matter? Should the cartoons be posted here? Were they profound in some way to you? (I just did not understand the symbology of most of them) If Denmark has a law like Finlands, should the Newspaper Editor be liable for it? Should such a law be instituted in America, and if it was would it affect you?

I tend to agree with MoisturePup - they seem to be directed from a limited source, not all of Denmark. And they seem childish, somehow (like curse words written on a wall) - they do not provoke thought or insite in me, just rage or hostility towards Islam. The one about heaven being out of virgins I thought was a good one, and a few others I got the point, but I am still trying to figure out what the others mean (the BBC has a pretty good artical that attempts to explain them)...

[dragonfly Jafe]

Personally, I'm offended by the continued inclusion of Family Circus on our nation's funny pages.

We have a national funny page?






...oh, you must mean the daily white house press releases!

[Bob]

Used to be a group at Burning Man that nailed hacked-up bloody goat heads and cow livers to wooden crosses.

Now, apparently, humorous apolitical not-for-prophet glosses on daily events, Normal life, and even news graphics from Danish newspapers are beyond the pale (ie outside the trash fence) for self-righteous stick-up-the-ass buhrnurz.

Somebody should Photoshop that cartoon head on the animated Jiffy-Lube sign.

[MoisturePup]

Somebody should Photoshop that cartoon head on the animated Jiffy-Lube sign.

As a homosexual I find the idea of the cartoon head being the "catcher" on the Jiffy Lube sign to be in particularly good taste.

Those middle eastern coutnries are all about choice for homosexuals, you see, you gets a choice between being halved by sword wielded by hot mens, or stoned to death by hot mens. As a result I have so much love for those middle eastern countries with their love of choices of hot mens and freedom!

[Bob]

Smells like herring...



SF Chron article

[Bob]

You know, this cartoon from Al-Jazeerah looks like it should be offensive to someone, but I just can't put my finger in it.

[MoisturePup]

You know, this cartoon from Al-Jazeerah looks like it should be offensive to someone, but I just can't put my finger in it.

Clearly it should be offensive to China because his head is up an Iranians ass. And It's offensive to Iran because it implies they'd like to have a mans head up their ass. And it's offnesive to Russians because clearly the Russian is the man servant to the two gay men, and as I'm sure we all know Russians are far to manly to be man servants.

[lurker]

The cartoons should be posted everywher they can fit.

We have been told by Islam that we are not allowed to do this. That we are not allowed to degrade their beliefs. That our right to free speech stops at their Quran.

Funny how THEIR speech has no problem denigrating others faiths. In cartoon, word and film. Funny how THEY get to say whatever they want

But we don't.

Living by Muslim strictures when one is not a Muslim is accepting dhimmi status. That wonderful nearly slave status reserved for the conquered.

And worse--all the talking heads and editorial boards sanctimoniously crying about how it's not right to take pot-shots at someone's faith. Excuse me?

Pot shots are taken at Christians all the time. At Jews. Even occasionally at faiths that aren't part of the 'Big Three'--South Park just nailed Scientology.

But now, all of a sudden, religions are off limit?

Or is it only the one?

Lying cowards.

Post the cartoons everywhere--let them see that we will not bow down.

Don't accept becoming dhimmi

Oh, and... Everyone has had a chance to see the cartoons on countless web sites, so we may not even need to post them here. Something about not letting "them" drag us down to their level? Discussing the topic frankly while showing "admirable restraint" might be our most noble approach.

Oh, and, Elliot? It's not 'showing admirable restraint' when you're simply obeying the commands of the mullahs.

[dragonfly Jafe]

You know, this cartoon from Al-Jazeerah looks like it should be offensive to someone, but I just can't put my finger in it.

Clearly it should be offensive to China because his head is up an Iranians ass. And It's offensive to Iran because it implies they'd like to have a mans head up their ass. And it's offnesive to Russians because clearly the Russian is the man servant to the two gay men, and as I'm sure we all know Russians are far to manly to be man servants.

(cleaning my monitor off)

[diane o'thirst]

I'm drawing up a cartoon of Fenris Ulf standing in the wreckage of a burnt embassy, broken chain round his neck, snarling down at a mob of now-awestruck protesters. One of the protesters is saying, "Ooops..."

Dammit! Who let the Wolf out?!

That's a creative/humourous treatment of a very real fear I have, that this incident will lead to an escalation of war and terrorism (on top of what's going on now). It is clear that radicalized elements are behind the protest violence. I saw a picture of Muslim clerics wading into violent protest mobs, physically and personally taking a stand to quell or at least abate the violence however way they could. Personally, I think those men are the true defenders of Islam and they're the ones who'll get the 72 virgins, not the guys with the grenades and SMGs. The tragic irony is that if this does lead to full-scale WWIII, it will probably be the most pathetic reason for engaging in warfare in the history of humankind. Orwell couldn't come up with a more ludicrous premise than going to war for a handful of drawings.

One of my points were that yes, the people doing the protesting haven't seen the material itself, they simply take it on good faith from their leaders that Islam has been insulted and blasphemy has occurred. Leaders who, it should go noted, have no qualms about the tools of torture, draconian censorship and suicide as means of attaining and maintaining power and who've warped a whole generation, through those means, into rabid dogs like the knuckle-draggers burning down embassies. Let's just say I add my vote to those points already touched upon.

I would like to make this point, however: the prohibition of portraitizing Muhammed is a proscription against idolatry. Given. However, and I'm sorry, but that would definitely be a lesser sin in comparison to what's been going on over the past few days. Bowing to graven images, consider thyself lapped. (To say nothing of the original observation being literally and resoundingly confirmed)

I'd also like to note that the Jylland-Post rejected publishing some cartoons about Jesus that were deemed "offensive." I'd like to see those cartoons before I level any accusations of religious hypocrisy, just like I withheld comment until I saw the Muhammed cartoons. And even though I think he's just pulling a juvenile, mean-spirited stunt, I want to see the results of the Ayatollah of Iran's calling for the publication of cartoons about the Holocaust in his own (state-run and heavily censored) newspaper. I've thorns under my tongue for him but they could do with a bit more sharpening, and nothing's better than firsthand working knowledge for that task...

[MoisturePup]

The tragic irony is that if this does lead to full-scale WWIII, it will probably be the most pathetic reason for engaging in warfare in the history of humankind. Orwell couldn't come up with a more ludicrous premise than going to war for a handful of drawings.

I'm not worried about it. The West's creativity, and embrace of free thought is the same thing that has technologically, and culturally, made us the winners of every king of the hilll competition we've ever engaged in. A culture's chances of creating ever better ways of killing others are greatly reduced when they don't allow themselves to be creative. It is our freedom that gives us our greatest strength: our ability to create. Creativity can yield as much death as it can yield beauty.

In a war of West vs. Everybody Else I already know who will be the victor.

Let's just hope it never gets to that point.

[Rockdad]

Ummm, and there are more of them than us

not true 1.3 billion them 6.5 bilion total rough math 5.2 billion of us.

The cartoons should be posted everywher they can fit.

We have been told by Islam that we are not allowed to do this. That we are not allowed to degrade their beliefs. That our right to free speech stops at their Quran.

Funny how THEIR speech has no problem denigrating others faiths. In cartoon, word and film. Funny how THEY get to say whatever they want

But we don't.

Totally agree with this quote
What I am pissed about is the countries affected not rounding these A holes up and shipping them out!
Also Islam does not have a problem with cartoons the Koran says they should not portray Mohammed in costume to avoid Idoltry and blasphemy, not graphics besides if there are no pictures of him How do they know what he looks like? Islam religion of peace - Not!

[diane o'thirst]

The Ayatollah wants a test to see if we'd censor cartoons about the Holocaust. Yes, they'd be censored, but we'd still get to see them anyway, those of us willing to search them out. But the joke's on him because we've had dozens of cranks saying the Holocaust didn't happen, but guess what? The most violent we got was to call whoever said it an a-hole and calling for an apology. Which usually didn't happen anyway.

Guess what? We got over it. Life went on. There are jerks in the world: deal with it!

Why didn't Iran go bug-nuts when <i>Road Warrior</i> came out and one of the guys in the film called Humongous "The Ayatollah of Rock 'n Rollah!"? Rock 'n roll music is banned in Iran, as I understand it. That was disrespectful. How come they didn't blow up the Australian embassy over that?

I have to wonder whether the newest defense — the one where people say that Muslims' faith is extremely strong, much stronger than we here in the West have — is really true. Being so touchy about one's icons says to me that their faith isn't strong at all if something as innocuous as a drawing can rattle them so badly. I mean, take the Pagans for example: we've had our deities and rituals stolen, dissed, desecrated, denied, and forbidden, our people murdered and sued and socially sanctioned to a faretheewell for thousands of years but we're still here.

[dragonfly Jafe]

This almost made me spit out my scotch today! Hurrah for our local alternative rag...my only media weakness

[joel the ornery]

i wonder why this thread isn't under General Discussion?

[DVD Burner]

Excellent call.

[DVD Burner]

NOT!

[Bin Noddin]

Article by the editor of that Danish newspaper.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02499.html

[MoisturePup]

Article by the editor of that Danish newspaper.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02499.html

It's persuasive. I agree with just about everything he's said. As a gay male the only thing I fear more than the Christian Right is the Muslim Right.

[diane o'thirst]

This was a very good and important article. It's always good to go back to the source, especially in a brouhaha like this. It's easy to lose sight of the big picture when the picture contains so many variables.

[Sean]

Some pictures I thought were interesting (the first one might have been photoshopped)

[diane o'thirst]

I laughed so hard I set myself on fire...