Yasir Arafat dies, world peace has a chance....

All things outside of Burning Man.
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Rian Jackson
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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:48 am

It doesn't surprise me that there are people on both sides that do not want peace for differing reasons.
True on both sides. But perhaps if you wanted to make loose and not-necessarily-fair equations, you'd compare settlers to militants.

This was done by the military. Not even the paramilitary. Direct action by the Israeli gov't.

But i don't blame Hamas and JI al the same. The Road Map resolves nothing....

*sigh*
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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:35 am

Ibrahim Abu Jazar, who was killed by the IDF yesterday.

in worse news, i HATE watching my predictions come true:
GAZA CITY, -: Palestinain policmen patrol near the Saraya prison in the centre of Gaza City 10 February 2005. Two suspected Palestinian murderers were shot dead as members of the victims' families staged a mass assault on the main prison in the Gaza Strip, police and witnesses said. Around 60 members of the Abed and Issa families, most of whom were armed, stormed into the prison in the centre of Gaza City after hurling grenades at the main entrance. AFP
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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:52 am

A bit re: the issues that haven't even been touched in these negotiations:

Image

Image

and a look at the countryside there, and the way people travel around these barriers:

Image
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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:06 am

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Post by samtzu » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:04 am

Rian Jackson wrote:Fuck me silly, this is good shit.
Ummmm.... now, THERE'S an image....
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:33 am

Second Palestinian killed after summit

Thursday 10 February 2005, 13:25 Makka Time, 10:25 GMT

Israeli forces killed a second Palestinian two days after talks

Two days after a truce was agreed to in the historical Sharm al-Shaikh summit, Israeli troops have killed a seond Palestinian, while fighters in Gaza fired mortars at illegal settlements.

Aljazeera's correspondent in Ram Allah reported that a Palestinian was killed on Thursday when occupation forces opened fire on the car he was driving in Wadi al-Haramiya neighbourhood near the West Bank city of Ram Allah.


The Israeli army said the Palestinian broke through a barricade and refused to stop.

The death is the second reported killing since a truce was announced at Sharm al-Shaikh on Tuesday.


On Wednesday a Palestinian man died hours after he was wounded by gunfire from a Gaza Jewish settlement.


The 20-year-old from a Rafah refugee camp in southern Gaza was shot from the nearby illegal settlement of Atzmona, which has an Israeli army garrison.


An Israeli military source said troops had fired warning shots, suspecting an infiltration attempt.


Mortar fire


In a separate incident, the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Martyrs Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, announced it had fired 12 mortar shells and 13 Qassam rockets at Israeli military posts and Jewish settlements in the southern Gaza Strip.

An Israeli military source said 13 mortar shells were fired overnight and four more on Thursday morning against Jewish targets in the southern Gaza Strip.

There were no reported casualties, but the Israeli source said several buildings were damaged.


An anti-tank shell was also fired at an Israeli army position near the settlement of Neve Dekalim, in the same area, without causing any injuries.


The group vowed to continue resistance and firing at Jewish settlements.


Arrests


The Israeli army meanwhile arrested three armed members of the Palestinian mainstream group Fatah whom they had been looking for in the West Bank, the source said.


Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas announced the end of four years of violence at a summit in Egypt on Tuesday.


"We have agreed with the prime minister to cease all acts of violence against Israelis and against Palestinians wherever they are," Abbas said.
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Post by samtzu » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:36 am

old habits die hard... on both sides... this will take time...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:42 am

My guess is that this isn't a smattering of incidents. Probably, the shelling was in response to yesterday's assassination.

THe Ramallah incident, we'll have to wait and see. I've seen too much documentation about the stories that the IDF constructs.

The searches for Fateh members have probably been going on for a little while - hours, if not days - if they just culminated now.

The incidents are in both Gaza and the west bank, including southern parts of the west bank, which are often calmer than the north.

I think it really just shows the process for the sham it is.

I hope i'm proved wrong.
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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:47 am

Palestinian Leader Fires 3 Aides After Militants Shell Jewish Area
By GREG MYRE

Published: February 10, 2005

JERUSALEM, Feb. 10 - In the first serious test of the Israeli-Palestinian truce, the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas fired three of his security chiefs today, shortly after Palestinian factions launched a mortar and rocket attack on Jewish settlements in the southern Gaza Strip.

The move indicated Mr. Abbas's intention to enforce the cease-fire he announced along with Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, at their meeting in Egypt on Tuesday.

In the wake of the shelling, Mr. Abbas held an emergency session of the Central Committee of his Fatah movement, and the body denounced the attacks by Hamas and other factions. The committee called the shelling "irresponsible acts that harm our security and the high national interests of our people."

Mr. Abbas then sacked three prominent security chiefs in Gaza.

The swift action by Mr. Abbas is in sharp contrast to the style of his predecessor, Yasir Arafat, who died in November. After the Palestinian uprising began in 2000, Mr. Arafat did not demand that the Palestinian security forces act to prevent violence against Israel.

However, Mr. Abbas's moves could meet resistance among some elements in the Palestinian security forces, who view a crackdown against fellow Palestinians as the equivalent of subcontracting work carried out on behalf of Israel.

And Mr. Abbas is courting confrontation with Hamas and the other armed factions, which assert that they are not bound by Mr. Abbas's truce.

Hamas and other Palestinian factions began the mortar and rocket barrage before dawn today, calling it retaliation for the deaths of two Palestinians in southern Gaza a day earlier.

More than 20 mortars and two rockets rained down on the main Jewish settlement bloc in the southwestern corner of Gaza, with the attack centered on the Neve Dekalim settlement, the Israeli military said. No one was hurt, though one house was slightly damaged.

Two other armed factions, Islamic Jihad and the Popular Resistance Committees, also issued statements saying they took part in the shelling.

The Palestinians have fired several thousand mortars toward the settlements in the past four years, but casualties and serious damage are rare. The shelling has diminished, though it has not stopped altogether in recent weeks after the factions made a pledge to Mr. Abbas to suspend attacks.

Mr. Abbas dismissed Omar Ashour, the head of national security in southern Gaza, along with Saeb al-Ajez, Gaza's police chief, and Abdel Razek al-Majaida, the head of national security in Gaza and the West Bank.

The firings were linked to the shelling in southern Gaza, as well as an assault on the Palestinian Authority's main jail in Gaza City, where assailants shot dead three prisoners today in revenge killings that are part of a local feud.

Mr. Abbas, elected president of the Palestinian Authority just a month ago, has also been emphasizing the need for law and order in the Palestinian areas.

Hamas, which calls for the destruction of Israel, had refrained from major attacks in recent weeks following its pledge to Mr. Abbas. But the group said today's shelling was in response to "the Zionist crimes that haven't stopped against our people."

The statement was a reference to Wednesday's shooting death of a Palestinian man who was hit while on foot near a Jewish settlement in southern Gaza. The Israeli military said soldiers fired warning shots when four Palestinians approached a settlement, but the military said it was not aware of Palestinian casualties.

Hamas also cited the death of one of its members in an explosion on Wednesday. But Palestinian officials said the man's death was caused by the premature explosion of a bomb he was handling.

Near the West Bank city of Ramallah today, Israeli troops fired on a Palestinian man who refused to stop at a roadblock near, the military said. The car crashed into a ditch, and the Palestinian was killed. The military said an investigation found the man was driving a car stolen from Israel.

The violence of the past two days demonstrated the way that individual incidents can quickly escalate into major confrontations threatening a cease-fire intended to end more than four years of fighting.

Israel called on the Palestinian leadership to prevent attacks, but the response was relatively low key.

"No one wants the understandings to break down two days after the summit," said Gideon Meir, a senior official in Israel's Foreign Ministry. "It's not in the Israel's interests, and it's not in the Palestinians' interests."

Mr. Abbas, who works out of Ramallah, was expected to travel to Gaza on Friday and talk with the armed factions about the cease-fire. The Palestinian leader says he wants to co-opt the factions, but the latest developments will make his job that much harder.

In the violence at the Gaza Central Jail, a large group of armed men burst into the facility before dawn and located several prisoners accused of a recent killing, according to Palestinian witnesses and security officials.

The assailants killed two men in their cells, and seized a third man, Hussein Abu Yusef, who was taken to the home of Adnan Issa, a leader of Mr. Abbas's Fatah movement in Gaza, the witnesses said.

Mr. Yusef was accused of killing Mr. Issa's brother in a recent dispute. The gunmen forced Mr. Yusef to confess to the killing, and then beat him before shooting him dead, the witnesses and security officials said.

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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:52 am

Gak!! I'm reading through top headlines from around the world. The ones that blame breakdown of the ceasefire completely on the militants are already starting to pour in. Anyone up for watching a round of history revision?
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Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:02 pm

Um, me again. But just thought, if anyone wanted to know, i'd tell ya (yeah, yeah, i know, i'm the only one who gives a shit):

I talked to my best friend in the W.B. today. We talked about hudna and he just laughed and said 'Don't ever believe it when they talk about hudna.' Then he mentioned that there have been 22 deaths in the past 2 weeks in the West Bank.
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Post by Rian Jackson » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:32 am

On Pat O'Connor, the international I spoke of last week:

In a statement before the court, O'Connor stated that supporting the development of a Palestinian nonviolent movement is in the best interest of both Palestinians and Israelis. He further stated that "the steps the Israeli authorities are taking against international human rights activists are illegitimate measures to stop legitimate nonviolent and peaceful protests." He also commented that other activists like him are forced to take unusual but legal steps to ensure that there are human rights activists in the Occupied Palestinian Territories to support nonviolence and to monitor Israeli violations.

O'Connor's deportation will occur despite a letter issued by the Palestinian Authority acknowledging Mr. O'Connor's human rights work and inviting him to remain in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Israel does not acknowledge the Palestinian Authority's right to invite internationals into its own territory which Palestinians nominally control. O'Connor is awaiting his deportation in Maasiyahu prison in Ramle where he has been held since his arrest on January 24.


emphases are mine.
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:12 pm

who's holding the cards here are militant Mullahs and Rabbis (fundamentalist Christian preachers here). Get them to start modelling peace and we've won. Simple as that.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by Rian Jackson » Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:15 pm

cowboyangel wrote:who's holding the cards here are militant Mullahs and Rabbis (fundamentalist Christian preachers here). Get them to start modelling peace and we've won. Simple as that.
mmmm... mullahs ain't holding nothing here, dude. and many of the rabbis aren't either.
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Post by cowboyangel » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:09 pm

mullahs and rabbis in Palestine/Israel. Fundos here.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:26 am

"We cannot say it was a mistake, but any war will have an end. And what is the end? To sit around the table and talk."
MAHMOUD ABBAS, the Palestinian leader, on the armed intifada against Israel.

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Post by Rian Jackson » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:48 am

cowboyangel wrote:mullahs and rabbis in Palestine/Israel. Fundos here.
*sigh*

I meant there, Pla/Is. I think you overestimate the roll of religion in the mainstream of this conflict.
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Post by cowboyangel » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:33 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:mullahs and rabbis in Palestine/Israel. Fundos here.
*sigh*

I meant there, Pla/Is. I think you overestimate the roll of religion in the mainstream of this conflict.
I wonder...
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Post by KellY » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:08 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:mullahs and rabbis in Palestine/Israel. Fundos here.
*sigh*

I meant there, Pla/Is. I think you overestimate the roll of religion in the mainstream of this conflict.
From what I've read, it sounds like religion is very important on the Israeli side - most of the settlers are hardcore fundies, and most opposed to a peaceful solution -it was a settler who killed Rabin, and another committed mass murder in the mosque to try and rile things up. The Palenstinians were mostly a secular resistance for a long time, though the Islamic fundies have grown in influence, as religion generally does in times of war and misery.
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Post by Rian Jackson » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:12 am

Religious justification for colonialism and racism.

Though it's true that there are bunches of right wing religious settler zealots, many of the settlers are there because of the vast government subsidies.
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Post by Rian Jackson » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:11 am

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:30 am

So now tell me Arafat is dead and Hamas is in control.

Now tell me does "World Peace has a change" have a better chance now or when Arafat was in control?

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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:06 pm

:lol:






I looked for this thread for the longest. thanks for finding it.
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:57 pm

I enjoy bringing up these old threads to flash back into the future.

I don't know how world peace could ever be attained by the death of one person when that old man could have been the key to do it. It now appears that he was the only person that could have kept the Fatah in control. Without him the fracturing of the palestinians was expected, but Sharon acted way too late to try pacify them with only the return of land. Now is the question:

Ariel Sharon dies, does world peace has a chance...

You tell me.

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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:01 pm

:lol:
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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:25 am

I just wanted to bump this because I love the jackson five.





Bwwwwaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha.
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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:26 am

Nothing personal or negative.
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Post by DVD Burner » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:21 pm

I just want to understand something.

From what I understand, the Hamas has imposed a cease fire on themselves for the past 18 months.
The Palestinians have not done any attacking since the election?

Israel has launched how many attacks in the same amount of time?


I could be wrong so please someone tell me where I'm not getting something here?


Thanks.
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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:19 pm

This one is for the Sensei:

So Uuuuummmmm.....Yasir Arafat dies, world peace still have a chance?






:lol:


Hate to say this but israel has a serious butt kicking comming to them soon. Ya think?
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:39 pm

bump!






:shock: :P
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