American Flags Flying in Black Rock City

KnowMatterWhat · Post by **KnowMatterWhat** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:40 am

I saw several American Flags flying high at BlackRock City. Ever since George W. took office, the flag has had a different significance to me. I'm am a natural born citizen of the US and feel this is the greatest place on Earth to live. Throughout my life I have been proud of my American heritage, however more recently rather ashamed of how our country has evolved (mostly from the Whitehouse). Initially after the 9/11 incident, I flew an American flag to show national unity, however soon took it down as the meaning of the flag became something different to me. It seems more of a Republican symbol and an icon of support to the Bush administration.

I realize this is my personal opinion. So, I'm asking anyone who flew the US Flag at Burning Man for your input and invite feedback/input from the citizens of Black Rock City.

May you all be well ~ Know Matter What

III · Post by **III** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:21 am

it's a piece of fabric.

and for all i dislike about the current adminsitration, and the one before that, i think this is still a damn fine country to live in.

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:26 am

III wrote:...i think this is still a damn fine country to live in.

I wonder if B.Man would be allowed--or even conceived--in any other country?

liebling · Post by **liebling** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:42 am

i didnt fly a flag but i dont see a problem with it. i mean, it didnt bother me. there were plenty of flags from canada and britian there too.....it's ok to fly your colors.

g

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:46 am

george dubya bush does not own the american flag. it belongs to us, and we can proudly drape a flag across our shoulders or diaper our babies bottoms with it.

that said, insn't the el slavadorian flag pretty?

hrh - the princess

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:02 am

PJ wrote:
III wrote:...i think this is still a damn fine country to live in.
I wonder if B.Man would be allowed--or even conceived--in any other country?

A delicious, if somewhat bitter irony, will be when B.Man is shut down, not by any GOP action, but through the implementation of social and economic policies the whiney left seems to support.

Think about it: are there any socialist states that would tolerate something like B.Man?

III · Post by **III** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:07 am

> are there any socialist states that would tolerate something like B.Man?

plenty, i think. especially in the gelded form it's being marketed now...

chloe_dancer · Post by **chloe_dancer** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:20 am

to me, the American Flag represents our freedom to have choices, our freedom to pretty much do as we please. it represents our heritage, or past and present and future, both the good and the bad. however, when i saw a few American Flags around burning man, i started to feel a bit uneasy. i knew there were a lot of people from other countries at the event, and i wonder if they somehow felt like the posting of our flag made it into an "us and them" situation. i however did see a few other flags from other nations, and that made me feel a bit better. don't get me wrong, i LOVE our country and respect our flag....but isn't burning man a time to forget nations and borders and flags and just all be common people, with common goals?

Peace_Tolero · Post by **Peace_Tolero** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:27 am

> are there any socialist states that would tolerate something like B.Man?

Before the Europeans came to this continent in tall wooden ships...

The Real Thing!

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:49 am

Peace_Tolero wrote:
The Real Thing!

In the old days, it had a lot more blood pouring down the steps.

Liverace · Post by **Liverace** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:03 am

To quote a cliche: Minds are like parachutes...yadda, yadda, yadda

This thread perfectly debunks the misconception that fascism is uniquely associated with the right wing, since such authoritarianism is the most likely means to enforce your wishes.

It would be a shame if BRC morphed into some Zamyatinesque anti-utopia where diversity is celebrated in the realms of race, religion, sex, morality, etc. but homogeneity of political thought is enforced by iron-fisted thought police.

I treasure BRC not because everyone there thinks like I do but because it's a rare place where I can interact with open-minded, good-hearted people who might be adversaries elsewhere, yet celebrate our common love for the burn.

Sure, you were offended by the sight of the American flag but that offense only made your experience more complete, just like a victim of forcible rape might have been offended by the S&M camps which featured women in cages or other restraints. For my part, I consider the human body in its natural state to be a thing of beauty and a sacred temple and as such I'm revolted by examples of extreme body mods or dermal graffiti. I would never advocate infringing on anyone else's right to express themselves that way just because it turns my stomach.

You might also consider that in much of the world the American flag represents freedom from real oppression, while to you it simply stimulates flashbacks to some faux authoritarianism lingering in your subconscious from your mother's heavy-handed potty training methods. Some of those flags were undoubtedly flown by foreign nationals celebrating their participation in an event which would be controlled, regulated, constrained, or outright prohibited in their homelands, or in the majority of our more "progressive" global neighbors (particularly that frozen wasteland to our north.)

Learn to dissociate your self-identity from your nationality, your nation's identity from that of its transitory government, a moment in time from a lifetime of history. And beware of touching other people's flags, since the flag does happen to guarantee certain rights pertaining to free speech, property rights, and firearms possession.

Long live Diversity! Long live BRC! Long live America!

Liverace · Post by **Liverace** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:07 am

Does anyone hear an echo?

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:08 am

Ok, let me put the question in a form even a hippie could appreciate: Would B.man be tolerated in California? Would safety, public health, etc. regulations on the books in CA preclude such an event here? Would the social engineering in CA further geld any BM type event attempted here?

harrumph · Post by **harrumph** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:23 am

Many of the American flags that I saw flying were the Adbusters Corporate Flag Jam.

http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/flag/
(you have to wait a minute for the flag to load with all the corporate logos)

RedTux · Post by **RedTux** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:24 am

How many people have traveled to a foreign country where you have few rights? How many people have been pulled over by a police officer or the military at gunpoint and been asked for a bribe? It is not a fun experience. However it is one that made me more aware of what we do have here. For the most part we have a governmental system that works, we may not agree but great effort is made to serve the constituancy. For the most part we know that we can trust the law enforcement community and that they will not abuse their powers. Granted there are always exceptions, but when was the last time that CHP officer who pulled you over for speeding said, "you know for $200 I can make this thing go away."

I don't think that BRC would easily happen in other places. Environmental and social equality reasons would probably be cited. I definately don't see this happening in California and I too live here.

As to the Flag. To me it stands for this country which I am a citizen of. It stands for the ability for people to speak their minds openly and freely in this forum. To me it stands for the efforts this country has made to be a melting pot of cultures. Do I think flying it in a public place is an affront to a foreign national? NO! Is it appropriate for me to complain about seeing the British flag flown at a festival like the Redding Festival? It is imperialistic for the Germans to fly their flag at the Love Parade in Berlin? Think about it, put yourself in a foreign contry and ask the same question people are asking about BRC.

In the end the American Flag stands for this country and all those who live here wether they agree or disagree, it stands for them.

-RedTux

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:21 pm

casnimot wrote:...Would B.man be tolerated in California?

It started there, but was asked to leave.

It will be interesting if the lawsuit fest that's inevitable following this year's accidents will effectively destroy either or both the organization and the annual event. Using the judicial system has proven to be an effective means of eliminating neo-Nazi cults and their assets; it will be equally effective against counter-culture societies and their festivals.

mags · Post by **mags** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:26 pm

PJ wrote:
III wrote:...i think this is still a damn fine country to live in.
I wonder if B.Man would be allowed--or even conceived--in any other country?

uh, yes

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:30 pm

PJ wrote:
casnimot wrote:...Would B.man be tolerated in California?
It started there, but was asked to leave.

It will be interesting if the lawsuit fest that's inevitable following this year's accidents will effectively destroy either or both the organization and the annual event. Using the judicial system has proven to be an effective means of eliminating neo-Nazi cults and their assets; it will be equally effective against counter-culture societies and their festivals.

That will also be ironic, as the legal profession is aligned with the Democratic party, as opposed to the GOP. I'm sure such an irony will be lost on most, in any case.

crimbopple · Post by **crimbopple** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:59 am

i had a good chuckle seeing the American Flag flown upsidedown. It made the little gears TURN TURN TURN in my head. Not that it is necessarily "unAmerican." It can mean other, more thought provoking, things.

Another thing to get the gears turning:

see:
Bowling for Columbine

zeno · Post by **zeno** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:38 am

PJ wrote: Using the judicial system has proven to be an effective means of eliminating neo-Nazi cults and their assets; it will be equally effective against counter-culture societies and their festivals.

I agree. Here are a couple of cynical quotes about the law I wrote a few years ago:

"The law is a confused morass of conflicting opinion, monopoly power and special interest legislation."

"The law is a hammer. It was supposed to be a shield."

Today, the law is used mostly to get stuff you don't deserve and to punish individuals who have the audacity to think they have a right to do anything without asking everyone's permission first.

I don't see the law as being any more conservative or liberal, right or left, but used by virtually all in politics to get stuff they haven't got the balls, ability or social skills to get on their own.

dirtydusty · Post by **dirtydusty** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 2:11 pm

Look! Up in the sky! Is it patriotism? Jingoism? Over there, is it a cape? Diaper? Rag? Is it burning? Freedom of Speech. How entertaining! How incredibly valuable. Defend it or lose it.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 2:17 pm

no shit.

III · Post by **III** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:39 pm

here's a flag for ya:

<img src="http://www.cultureshark.net/tgoesh/dixieman.gif">

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:43 pm

III wrote:here's a flag for ya

had to do a triple-take. brilliant.

RedTux · Post by **RedTux** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:08 pm

III wrote:here's a flag for ya:

THAT'S AWESOME!!!

Come driving up to the Gate in some beat up old pickup truck blearing the country music and that flag proudly waving in the back. That might get more than a tripple take...

III · Post by **III** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:10 pm

i'll admit that i got the idea from tbone, who in turn saw it somewhere else.

but expect to see that turned into a fair number of patches for next year...

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:21 pm

III wrote:i'll admit that i got the idea from tbone, who in turn saw it somewhere else.

but expect to see that turned into a fair number of patches for next year...

Too damn cool.

electrolux · Post by **electrolux** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:43 pm

A version of that flag was flying over camp bayou all week.

I don't really see what the point of flying an american flag at BM is, but do whatever you want, I don't care. For some reason I got bothered by the number of Canadian flags at the event. There is a segment of the canadian population who feel the need to hang out with other canadians all the time, and feel like they're some kind of heroes for making it across the border to the festival. I don't care where the fuck you're from, as long as you have something interesting to say.

crimbopple · Post by **crimbopple** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:13 am

The State that loves flying it's flag more than any other

TEXAS.

Being an (t)Ex-un, and seeing those flags all over, made me want to puke. But hey, that's just me grappling with my own personal issues. Unless, it bugs anyone else? C'mon... You know you want to...

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:11 am

Pi-ti-ful hu-mans! The flag of the Urkin Galactic Invasion Army will replace all flags in 2004!

MWAHAHAHA!

American Flags Flying in Black Rock City

American Flags Flying in Black Rock City

Diversity of thought is diversity too.

Diversity of thought is diversity too.

America, BRC, Flages etc...

fly it high, upsidedown!

Don't Y'all FORGET...