What are women about, really?

[SED]

Disclamer: The question is entirely rhetorical. We're all human.

At a recent party I met an extremely attractive woman. She seemed unattached and was drinking heavily. She was touchy and flirty with me and though I tried not to talk much about myself, she seemed to hang on every word I spoke as though I was fascinating. She wanted me to drink more and she took my hand and poured wine into my glass, her touch warm and lingering.

I'm not very rich or handsome, and I know I'm less interesting than I once thought I was. I wasn't looking to score and in fact, my wife and young children were in the same room, as was the woman's husband and her own children. I knew she was drunk and I was far more alarmed by than attracted to this dazzling beauty.

It soon occured to me that the woman was behaving like this with everyone, male and female alike. Then I noticed that nearly everyone was having the same reaction I did. I put it together in my head she had likely always been attractive, and had learned to relate to people primarily through her physical presence. That made me feel compassionate towards her, because it apeared that her primary mode of interaction had to generate some discomfort and confusion. She was just trying to get along and that was the most familiar way.

But I couldn't just relax and let her do her thing. If I relaxed, she might think I was attracted to her. Her husband was standing next to me, and he and I had been chatting all night in genuine, friendly and mutually respectful terms. Although I have never had an invitation to a threesome, I knew this was not my first.

A friend once told me that there are some situations which can only be described in German. This was not one of them, but perhaps someone knows of a language that has a word for it. Any thoughts?

[calsur]

The one you describe is a slut or a drunk. Move on.

[The CO]

I put it together in my head she had likely always been attractive, and had learned to relate to people primarily through her physical presence. That made me feel compassionate towards her, because it apeared that her primary mode of interaction had to generate some discomfort and confusion. She was just trying to get along and that was the most familiar way.

I think you got the motivation down.

Word for that situation... "Awkward" comes to mind.

If she was doing this with everyone else, gender irrelavent, then what made you think she was ready to pounce if you let your guard down (metaphorical of course)? I know women that interact with others in a way very similar to what you discribe, but as you note; it's how they relate to people.

[SED]

If she was doing this with everyone else, gender irrelavent, then what made you think she was ready to pounce if you let your guard down (metaphorical of course)?

I didn't think she was ready to pounce until I saw her act the same way with other people.

[HughMungus]

You described a woman having a good time at a party. Was there a question? I didn't see it.

[Kinetic IV]

A man is trying to understand women?
Quantum physics would be easier with a better chance of success.

Some things are best left in the "mysteries of the universe" category...just admire, wonder, and move along.

[theCryptofishist]

I'm about five, four.


really

[robbidobbs]

I've been fascinated with the quality "warmth" lately. There are people who have learned, probably early in life, to not fear others, and engage others in conversation that empowers both. Alas, I do not feel I've learned this, and have often been aware of the walls around me. This probably makes me less "attractive".

I see this warm quality in both men and women, it is a radiance that welcomes others into their joyous world.

[HughMungus]

I've been fascinated with the quality "warmth" lately. There are people who have learned, probably early in life, to not fear others, and engage others in conversation that empowers both. Alas, I do not feel I've learned this, and have often been aware of the walls around me. This probably makes me less "attractive".

I see this warm quality in both men and women, it is a radiance that welcomes others into their joyous world.

It's something I've learned in the past few years. I used to be a lot more shy in social situations. I'm way more engaging now. I think it's because I realized that a lot of times, everybody in the room is waiting for everybody else in the room to make the first move. So now I just make the first move. I say "Hi" or "Hi I'm so and so. What's your name?" or whatever. I think the key, in my case anyway, is not giving a fuck. If I put myself out there by saying hi or whatever and I get a negative or neutral response, I don't care. You gotta dig through a lot of dirt to find the diamonds. :D

[blyslv]

One thing I've learned is too avoid sweeping generalizations concerning 50% of humanity, more or less.

[can't sit still]

One thing I've learned is too avoid sweeping generalizations concerning 50% of humanity, more or less.

I agree with you there, but only up to a limited point. If you just put "most "in front of a statement, you're prettyy safe. Most girls are born flirtatious.
Most girls want attention. Many girls learn that they receive more attention if they give attention. Most girls tone down the flirting in their teens because they're innundated with too much attention of the wrong kind. Flirtation is wide open to misinterpretation.
I've met American women in Spain and Italy who let themselves go appearance-wise because the attention was too overwhelming and erosive.
It sounds like the woman mentioned in the first post was giving her undivided attention to each and every person that she talked too.

I've met women like this. I really enjoy their company. They are right there with you.
What's a 4 letter word for intercourse????
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Talk

I believe that most girls get the warmth beat out of them.. They smile and say "HI",,, just to be pleasant. The guy says "holy shit, she wants to jump my bones". She learns in her early teens that she can't give any pleasantries to anyone suffering from testosterone poisioning.

It's sad, too many people whose sunny personality and natural warmth is beat out of them by their fears.
They submerge their personality so it won't be misconstrued as a come on,,,so they won't be referred to as a slut.

I've known some really warm women, but the constant hassle of dealing with short-sighted men who wouldn't know real value if it came right up to them,,,has subdued a good part of their natural spirit.

As a society, we ARE moving forward, but there are still too many children that are forced into a mold that quashes their spirit.

What are women about really? For a start most of them want everything to feel right.

[SED]

I've had similar experiences with gay men. As soon as you stop avoiding them, they think you're a prospect.

[can't sit still]

It's funny. I've heard gays claim that they know a fellow gay when they see them. Coulda fooled me.
I've had gays try to pick me up when I'm with a woman and her kids or lying on the beach between 2 beautiful women etc.
I guess everybody likes a challenge.

[SED]

Well, regarding gay men, the important thing to remember is that they are men, just as boys and girls are children.

That said, there is definitely a thrill associated with a conversion. I guess you get extra points. Perhaps it's the same thing as when girls try to dress boys up.

[jupiter9]

When in doubt drink heavily. I have a background in psychology so I am qualified to make this statement.

[Ranger Genius]

[joel the ornery]

February 28, 2006

The Happiest Wives

Freud confessed that his "thirty years of research into the feminine soul" left him unable to answer one great question: "What does a woman want?" Modern feminists have been arguing for decades over a variation of it: What should a woman want?

This week two sociologists from the University of Virginia are publishing the answer to a more manageable variation. Drawing on one of the most thorough surveys ever done of married couples, they've crunched the numbers and asked: What makes a woman happy with her marriage?

Their answer doesn't quite jibe with current conventional wisdom. Three decades ago, two-thirds of Americans surveyed said it was better for wives to focus on homemaking and husbands to focus on breadwinning, but by the 1990's, only a third embraced the traditional division of labor. The new ideal — in theory, not in practice — became a partnership of equals who split duties inside and outside the home.

This new egalitarian marriage was hailed by academics and relationship gurus as a recipe for a happier union. As wives went off to work and husbands took on new jobs at home, couples would supposedly have more in common and more to talk about. Husbands would do more "emotion work," as sociologists call it, and wives would be more fulfilled.

That was the theory tested by the Virginia sociologists, Bradford Wilcox and Steven Nock, who analyzed a survey of more than 5,000 couples. Sure enough, they found that husbands' "emotion work" was crucial to wives' happiness. Having an affectionate and understanding husband was by far the most important predictor of a woman's satisfaction with her marriage.

But it turns out that an equal division of labor didn't make husbands more affectionate or wives more fulfilled. The wives working outside the home reported less satisfaction with their husbands and their marriages than did the stay-at-home wives. And among those with outside jobs, the happiest wives, regardless of the family's overall income, were the ones whose husbands brought in at least two-thirds of the money.

These male providers-in-chief were regarded fondly by even the most feminist-minded women — the ones who said they believed in dividing duties equally. In theory these wives were egalitarians, but in their own lives they preferred more traditional arrangements.

"Women today expect more help around the home and more emotional engagement from their husbands," Wilcox says. "But they still want their husbands to be providers who give them financial security and freedom."

These results, of course, are just averages. Plenty of people are happy with different arrangements — including Nock, who makes less than his wife and does the cooking at home. He says that nontraditional marriages may be a strain on many women simply because they've been forced to be social pioneers. "As society adjusts to women's new roles," he says, "women may become happier in egalitarian marriages."

But I'd bet there's a limit to egalitarianism. Consider what's happened with housework, that perpetual sore point. From the 1960's through the 80's, wives cut back on housework as husbands did more. In the 1990's, though, the equalizing trend leveled off, leaving wives still doing nearly twice as much of the work at home.

That seems terribly unfair unless you look at how men and women behave when they're living by themselves: the women do twice as much housework as the men do. Single men do less cooking and cleaning, because those jobs don't seem as important to them. They can live with unmade beds and frozen dinners.

Similarly, there's a gender gap in enthusiasm for some outside jobs. Men are much more willing to take a job that pays a premium in exchange for long hours away from home or the risk of being killed. The extra money doesn't seem as important to women.

In a more egalitarian world, there would be more wives mining coal and driving trucks, and more husbands cooking dinners and taking children to doctor's appointments. But that wouldn't be a fairer world, as Nock and Wilcox found.

The happiest wives in their study were the ones who said that housework was divided fairly between them and their husbands. But those same happy wives also did more of the work at home while their husbands did more work outside home. Nock doesn't claim to have divined the feminine soul, but he does have one answer to Freud's question.

"A woman wants equity," he says. "That's not necessarily the same as equality."

just another perspective tossed out there for your reading pleasure.

[helitack]

What are women about?

They are about Love
And tenderness
They are about bringing life into the world
They bring a quality to one's world that cannot be described in words
They are about friendship
And trust
They are about unbridled passion
And giving
They are about THE smile, and there are hundreds of versions and meanings of THE smile
And sharing one's deepest fears, dreams or thoughts
Without fear of ridicule
They bring a little bit of beauty to people who recognize that women are very special, especially to me
They are about that look you get, sparkly, fiesty yet very deep and meaningful
And when there is a particular woman that is not present, but you can feel her presence anyway, Wow


But then, those is just my thoughts

[ravenluv]

A Question of Equality

this thread began with a description of a drunken woman being 'unduly' affectionate. how would the discussion be different had the story been of a man doing the same?

A Rilly Big Difference

women have babies. all other aspects of womanhood could be rearranged to be like manhood, but as long as women are still carrying new beings into the world, they will be different from men. i believe it is a profound difference that likely overshadows all other perceived differences.

as long as men are chasing after women and women are having babies, it is likely that the sexes will remain distinct and not easily tamed into a homogenized mush of rigid equality (far easier to understand than the current situation, of course).

That Damned Media (Born of Guttenburg's Bible-Makin' Machine)

as we take advantage of liberty to make our choices in life, the media tells us whether our choices are those of the majority or the minority, and if they are upheld or decried by law. thus, even if we are good at making choices according to what feels right to us and not according to the whims or dictates of others, the media will tell us what the people around us think of those choices. similarly, we are able to form opinions about the behavior of others long before we meet and interact with the people who engage in those behaviors.

given this, even media that sincerely reports the facts and shows things as they really are, without hyperbole or editorializing, is supporting the habit of judging situations, behaviors and/or people before having experienced them on a personal level.

so...now that we know what most women in a statistical sample are happy with....

Self-Absorbed Blather That Only My Fans ( ) Will Read, Though It Does Manage to Stick With the Subject Matter of the Thread....Sort Of

i'm feeble when it comes to the other gender. or wait...that's not true. lots of members of the other gender think i'm a swell person. but when it comes to sharing long tracts of life together, i'm a tough cookie. i am no more messed up than anyone else, but the particular arrangement of my peculiarities has yet to be properly matched by those of another.

granted, i might be a self-deluded sociopath genuinely confused about why i can't find anyone who wants to put up with my impossible personality. and given that sociopaths never know themselves to be wrong - or even that they are sociopaths - there is no way i can know for sure whether i am one or not!

anyhoo...

Conclusionary Caterwauling

i am more concerned with what individual members of the other gender want or think and how that relates to our relationship, whatever form it may take. generalizations rarely help.

still, there must be some value in knowing that, in general, most members of the other gender just aren't interested in 'getting with' me, though they can be mighty flirtatious at times.

i suppose it'd be nice to see another study that could tell me that we all flirt for the same reason - because we want to feel desirable without having to enter into intense physical relations.

also, maybe there should be a study that shows that the form of male-female intimate relations - wherein one enters the other (or one envelops the other, depending on your perspective) - influences the way a person feels toward and receives the other. this could then be related to grander sociological trends.

for example, boldness feels different when poking your head into other people's business than when other people are poking their heads into yours. what are the ramifications of this insight for families, communities, nations and, most importantly, my love life?



Female and Male : The Conception

[uBeRpLaYa]

yOu aRe a tRuE GeNtLe MaN HeLiTaK

[joel the ornery]

yOu aRe a tRuE GeNtLe MaN HeLiTaK

nah, he's just in love.

[the fire elf]

woman is half beast half divine, just like man

evolving towards dualistic divinity

merging into one will, they can create what was once referred to as Elohim

[HughMungus]

What are women about?

They are about Love
And tenderness
They are about bringing life into the world
They bring a quality to one's world that cannot be described in words
They are about friendship
And trust
They are about unbridled passion
And giving
They are about THE smile, and there are hundreds of versions and meanings of THE smile
And sharing one's deepest fears, dreams or thoughts
Without fear of ridicule
They bring a little bit of beauty to people who recognize that women are very special, especially to me
They are about that look you get, sparkly, fiesty yet very deep and meaningful
And when there is a particular woman that is not present, but you can feel her presence anyway, Wow


But then, those is just my thoughts

All of this could be said about some men, too. Generalizations are moronic.

[the fire elf]

Generalizations are moronic.

that could be considered a generalization...

[the fire elf]

[uBeRpLaYa]

What are women about?

They are about Love
And tenderness
They are about bringing life into the world
They bring a quality to one's world that cannot be described in words
They are about friendship
And trust
They are about unbridled passion
And giving
They are about THE smile, and there are hundreds of versions and meanings of THE smile
And sharing one's deepest fears, dreams or thoughts
Without fear of ridicule
They bring a little bit of beauty to people who recognize that women are very special, especially to me
They are about that look you get, sparkly, fiesty yet very deep and meaningful
And when there is a particular woman that is not present, but you can feel her presence anyway, Wow


But then, those is just my thoughts

All of this could be said about some men, too. Generalizations are moronic.

fRaT bOyS aRe mOrOnIc aS WeLL. wHeRe iS yOuR sEnSe oF rOmAnCe?
LeAvE iT aT tHe kEg?

[Lassen Forge]

What are women about?

They are about Love
And tenderness
They are about bringing life into the world
They bring a quality to one's world that cannot be described in words
They are about friendship
And trust
They are about unbridled passion
And giving
They are about THE smile, and there are hundreds of versions and meanings of THE smile
And sharing one's deepest fears, dreams or thoughts
Without fear of ridicule
They bring a little bit of beauty to people who recognize that women are very special, especially to me
They are about that look you get, sparkly, fiesty yet very deep and meaningful
And when there is a particular woman that is not present, but you can feel her presence anyway, Wow


But then, those is just my thoughts

>>swoon...<<

THAT, dear Heli, is what makes you such a rare and wonderful guy. And those of us who know you, know that. If there were more like you...

If only we could have you cloned!

bb

[the fire elf]

If only we could have you cloned!

it would be more 'radically self reliant' if you just made his babies...

cloning seems to be an attempt by technology to invalidate the whole giving birth thing...

(devil's advocate)

[Lassen Forge]

If only we could have you cloned!

it would be more 'radically self reliant' if you just made his babies...

cloning seems to be an attempt by technology to invalidate the whole giving birth thing...

(devil's advocate)

(fuse is lit... best run the fuck away... now.)

What sanctomonious, totally Cretanic, Fucking Outrageous, Absolute BULLSHIT.

Proves my point - REAL Gentelmen are few and far between. No wonder women get disgusted with guys. If I said something that patronizingly fucked up to some guy I didn't know, I'd be classed a bitch, probably worse. Am I wrong?? You KNOW I'm not...

And sorry... this "devil's advocate" crap is a way to fling shit and try to make it politically correct and not get called on it.

(remainder deleted)

bb

[HughMungus]

What are women about?

They are about Love
And tenderness
They are about bringing life into the world
They bring a quality to one's world that cannot be described in words
They are about friendship
And trust
They are about unbridled passion
And giving
They are about THE smile, and there are hundreds of versions and meanings of THE smile
And sharing one's deepest fears, dreams or thoughts
Without fear of ridicule
They bring a little bit of beauty to people who recognize that women are very special, especially to me
They are about that look you get, sparkly, fiesty yet very deep and meaningful
And when there is a particular woman that is not present, but you can feel her presence anyway, Wow


But then, those is just my thoughts

All of this could be said about some men, too. Generalizations are moronic.

fRaT bOyS aRe mOrOnIc aS WeLL. wHeRe iS yOuR sEnSe oF rOmAnCe?
LeAvE iT aT tHe kEg?

Generalizing about a group of people positively is the same as generalizing about a group of people negatively. Both setup expectations that will never be met. When you grow up you'll learn how to deal with people as individuals, not as pre-conceived ideas..